Jonathan Davies victim of Twitter abuse and threats after displacing Brian O'Driscoll in Lions side for deciding Test

by munkian Thu 22 Aug 2013, 9:37 am

First topic message reminder :

Jonathan Davies victim of Twitter abuse and threats after displacing Brian O'Driscoll in Lions side for deciding Test

The Scarlets and Wales centre was one of the standout performers during the 2-1 series success over the Wallabies and was given the vote to play alongside countryman Jamie Roberts in Sydney.

Coach Warren Gatland’s selection, which included nine Welshmen in the starting XV, gave rise to some serious criticism from the likes of Lions’ great Willie John McBride and former Ireland and Lions hooker Keith Wood.

The opposition to Gatland’s decision – particularly in relation to O’Driscoll – became further inflamed on Twitter, where a handful of supporters posted threatening messages towards Davies.

Davies said: “There was a lot of stuff on Twitter but I tried not to take too much notice of it. I had some good advice from players like Mike Phillips who just told me to ignore it.

“I was just grateful to have been given the opportunity to win the series. I did get a bit of verbal abuse and people wanting to break my legs and stuff. But I didn’t really care.

“I did feel like public enemy number one and there was a lot of pressure. But I felt like I had performed well under pressure.

“It was a great experience and I enjoyed every minute. Brian congratulated me afterwards and said well done. We were tight as a squad and Brian will be glad to have it on his CV.”

Davies will now turn his attention to helping the Scarlets re-establish themselves as a force in European club rugby.

“I have had six weeks offf and I’ve enjoyed it. I’ve been away on holiday and can’t wait to get back playing.”

Pretty disgusting stuff, rugby becoming more popular is attracting football like behaviour

by The Great Aukster Sat 31 Aug 2013, 7:18 pm

Hound of Harrow wrote:I have reluctantly tortured myself reading this thread after reading that it had been (briefly it seems) locked. I figured it would come down to the BOD v Davies selection issue...plus a few other things that have been through the wringer on here.

I have a question. How many of you were actually out in Aus for the tests?

I ask this because, while there was plenty of discussion amongst us about who should be starting in any particular game, once the 23 was announced it was pretty much "They're all Lions, let's get behind them."

All very laudable, but the thread is about some footballesque extremism coming into rugby to the point where an innocent player is targeted with twitter abuse. Was Gatland behind every player the way the fans were?
Gatland wasn't able (or didn't want) to present a coherent case that all Lions are equal, so naturally some fans suspected that some were more equal than others. He is directly responsible for engendering this divisiveness among Lions fans and has managed to alienate Lions fans despite the series win on the pitch.

by Sin é Sat 31 Aug 2013, 7:25 pm

flyhalf factory

The official B&I Lions stats have Davies missing 3 tackles in that Test (2nd).
They have Brian O'Driscoll down as missing none.

They have Davies as making 7 tackles, missing 3 and winning 2 turnovers.
They have BOD as making 12, missing 0 and winning 1 turnover.

I'd imagine Gatland would be disputing these stats if they were not true as the B&I Lions coach.

Here is the link from the B& I website to these particular stats

http://www.lionsrugby.com/2013tour/match_centre_2013.php?section=playstatsaway&fixid=169136

by flyhalffactory Sat 31 Aug 2013, 7:41 pm

Sin é wrote:flyhalf factory

The official B&I Lions stats have Davies missing 3 tackles in that Test (2nd).
They have Brian O'Driscoll down as missing none.

They have Davies as making 7 tackles, missing 3 and winning 2 turnovers.
They have BOD as making 12, missing 0 and winning 1 turnover.

I'd imagine Gatland would be disputing these stats if they were not true as the B&I Lions coach.

Here is the link from the B& I website to these particular stats

http://www.lionsrugby.com/2013tour/match_centre_2013.php?section=playstatsaway&fixid=169136

And your point is?......

Watch the 2nd test again at the three tackles and where BOD was at each occasion and why Davies actually missed the tackle

Well he missed Connor at least didn't he..... well didn't he or do you think he stopped AAC passing the ball to Ashley-Cooper

BOD actually was classed as not missing the AAC tackle as the ball was already passed before he made contact "MISMANAGEMENT AND LACKING AWARENESS"....... and Davies missed the Ashley-Cooper tackle didn't he? and yes the stats reveal he did miss the tackle even though he didn't have an earthly chance of stopping him from 3 metres.......

The stats don't reveal the poor performance by BOTH centres or why Davies missed the tackles but watch the 2nd test again and you will see where Davies was and what lines he was covering

Mr Gatland made a point of stating the Lions mismanagement after the 2nd test and consequently he paired Roberts and Davies for the 3rd test, made AWJ captain..... the rest as they said is history

by Sin é Sat 31 Aug 2013, 7:48 pm

Why have the Lions Official stats of the match have Brian O'Driscoll missing no tackles and Davies missing 3?

Is the B&I Lions management out to get Davies or something?

by flyhalffactory Sat 31 Aug 2013, 7:51 pm

Sin é wrote:Why have the Lions Official stats of the match have Brian O'Driscoll missing no tackles and Davies missing 3?

Is the B&I Lions management out to get Davies or something?

What?........ have you got some sort of disorder?...... or are you the residential troll?

Right enough of this I have to wash my hair or pull my nails out one by one

by Sin é Sat 31 Aug 2013, 7:54 pm

flyhalffactory wrote:
Sin é wrote:Why have the Lions Official stats of the match have Brian O'Driscoll missing no tackles and Davies missing 3?

Is the B&I Lions management out to get Davies or something?
What?........ have you got some sort of disorder?...... or are you the residential troll?

Right enough of this I have to wash my hair or pull my nails out one by one

Before you head off to do your nails, can you explain to me why the B&I Lions Official site would have Brian O'Driscoll down as missing no tackles in the 2nd Test and Davies as having missed 3.

What is their agenda to tell such lies?

by flyhalffactory Sat 31 Aug 2013, 8:02 pm

Sin é wrote:
flyhalffactory wrote:
Sin é wrote:Why have the Lions Official stats of the match have Brian O'Driscoll missing no tackles and Davies missing 3?

Is the B&I Lions management out to get Davies or something?
What?........ have you got some sort of disorder?...... or are you the residential troll?

Right enough of this I have to wash my hair or pull my nails out one by one
Before you head off to do your nails, can you explain to me why the B&I Lions Official site would have Brian O'Driscoll down as missing no tackles in the 2nd Test and Davies as having missed 3.

What is their agenda to tell such lies?

Are you serious? I think you need some sort of help

BOD didn't miss any tackles and Davies did miss three

As I said BOD didn't miss AAC tackle because he officially didn't get to him before he passed the ball to Ashley-Cooper who was THREE METRES from the line when Davies missed the tackle........... that's a prime example of the stats not revealing the truth

Lies...... damn lies.......

by BuzzScarlet Sat 31 Aug 2013, 8:09 pm

Well, at the end of the day I'm just glad that Gatland had the balls to drop BOD and give the tried and tested Davies and Roberts combination game time, if it upsets a few Irish supporters, pundits and Media then so be it, if u don't like, don't support the lions, end of.

And as for disrespecting BOD by dropping him completely as has been said on this thread and numerous social media sites, WTF? Does he have some kind of devine right to be included based on his past achievements?

by ME-109 Sat 31 Aug 2013, 9:05 pm

At the end of the day it was about Gatland finally getting a win against Aus. It was clear from the beginning. Wales couldn't beat a poor Aus no matter how hard they tried. Gatland picked Wales plus a little help from Ireland / England in the weaker positions. Job done the mighty Aus sent packing.

Regarding the BOD/Davies issue he could have picked a plank (which he did) and they would have won, given Gatlands history with Irish rugby it's not surprising he dropped BOD to get a bit of column inches.

It was genius really in terms of moving the goalposts away from how poorly the lions were doing and Gatlands coaching, given the series was a non entity and should have been won by the time the third test came along

by Knowsit17 Sat 31 Aug 2013, 9:11 pm

flyhalffactory wrote:
Sin é wrote:Why have the Lions Official stats of the match have Brian O'Driscoll missing no tackles and Davies missing 3?

Is the B&I Lions management out to get Davies or something?
What?........ have you got some sort of disorder?...... or are you the residential troll?

Right enough of this I have to wash my hair or pull my nails out one by one

It's good to challenge yourself but by my experience, trying to sustain an argument with somebody who has decided well in advance to cling to their view at all costs and not, whatever they do, open their mind to the soothing melody of reason is up there with the most outrageously fruitless activities one could partake in. Like trying to communicate with somebody with their fingers in their ears and bellowing at the top of their lungs.

by The Great Aukster Sat 31 Aug 2013, 9:16 pm

How can any Lions fan, vindicate a coach who divides the very grass roots support of the Lions?

by BuzzScarlet Sat 31 Aug 2013, 9:19 pm

If only Roberts had been fit to partner Davies in the first 2 tests and Tuilangi had been fit for bench then I'm sure the series would have already been won by the 3rd test. Never mind though, Gatland, Davies and the rest of he squad got BOD a Lions series win at last Smile

by ME-109 Sat 31 Aug 2013, 9:35 pm

You're right. Instead we had Davies flopping around and BOD having to cover for him.

by BuzzScarlet Sat 31 Aug 2013, 9:47 pm

Keep clinging on to that if it makes it a bit easier for you, BOD covering for Davies? I guess it was Davies's fault that BOD shovels Poopie straight onto North in the 2nd test to? (The Folau carry) The fact that BOD was pretty anonymous in attack in the series was Davies's fault as well? Face it, BOD is past it.

by aucklandlaurie Sun 01 Sep 2013, 8:36 am

The Great Aukster wrote:How can any Lions fan, vindicate a coach who divides the very grass roots support of the Lions?

Why are the grass root Lions supporters divided? I thought they were thrilled to bits with him.

by Guest Sun 01 Sep 2013, 9:08 am

What's the end point of this discussion?

by kiakahaaotearoa Sun 01 Sep 2013, 9:59 am

Death.

by The Great Aukster Sun 01 Sep 2013, 10:04 am

The last post.

by Guest Sun 01 Sep 2013, 10:43 am

So who gets the last post? Lets have a poll.

by asoreleftshoulder Sun 01 Sep 2013, 1:56 pm

flyhalffactory wrote:
Absolute tosh - I have resisted to embroiled in this again but I cannot accept total blatant falsehoods.

Before the third test started we had 19 people preparing to have a brunch and 3rd test party watch, there was 14 scots, 3 English and 2 irish..... one of my friends pointed out the evidence (and not me by the way) I was of the opinion like a lot that Foxy Davies was at fault due to Bowes reaction and the one particular tabloid comment. When it was pointed out that it was clearly not Davies mismanagement that led to the try we all guffawed at him but when the 19 of us viewed the evidence.....second by second its quite clear that Davies was bawling at BOD to get back in the defensive line i.e. between DAVIES AND BOWE not at the rear of the breakdown..... HE JUST SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN THERE. 18 out of 19 of us before the second by second UTUBE passage thought Davies of the two was at fault by after it its clear by 19 rugby supporters he wasn't.

At the point when the ball came out of the breakdown to AAC that's 7.49...... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cETSHAnswos, BOD was still ushering and encouraging an absolutely knackered Lydiate to plug the gap AT THE REAR OF THE BREAKDOWN.

* at that point he couldn't even see the ball was just about to come out
* at that point there was a 3 on 2 BOWE/DAVIES v AAC/ASHLEY-COOPER/TOMANE

When the passage carries on 7.50 mins i.e. when AAC receives the ball,

* BOD is just about reacting and starting his sideways run to attempt a sideways tackle..... total mismanagement, he should have been covering the Aussie 13.
* Davies is actually closer to AAC than BOD and if he decides not to hold that area of defence then AAC has a straight run in as BOD must be 10 mtrs away from AAC at that point

Wind on FOUR SECONDS later and that equated to TEN METRES
* BOD just about makes contact with AAC......... what's the bloody point as the ball has already gone onto to a gleeful Ashley-Cooper who knows that Davies has had to cover both the Connors run and his delayed run
* the Oz 3-2 overlap is now five metres from the Lions try line and there is only 10 metres between AAC and the touch
* Davies has to attempt to realign and stop a rampaging Ashley-Cooper from 3 metres

Game over

As said by Sin E incorrectly it was Davies fault....... utter rubbish and as was the comment of a 4 on 3 cover by the Lions

As sensibly commented it wasn't just one man who was at fault but if you are to judge mismanagement and lacking awareness it certainly can't be laid at Davies door

It's strange you mention this party where 19 people agree with you as some sort of proof yet you fail to acknowledge that almost nobody on 606 has supported your view.Why should we trust your unverifiable group of people versus the consensus on here?

Just look at the video from 74.50 on the game clock,you can quite clearly see Davies is standing looking straight at O'Connor and he never stops looking at him until he has passed the ball,a quite clear case of ball watching that an U18 player would be hammered for.

You think that Davies was calling BoD to switch places with him but you have no evidence to support it,the only video evidence shows BoD telling Davies to push out and cover AAC but Davies ignores this.Centres don't switch positions in the middle of play,what would be the point.I'd say you must be a forward if you think that's how a backline defends.

by Hound of Harrow Sun 01 Sep 2013, 2:02 pm

Sin é wrote:flyhalf factory

The official B&I Lions stats have Davies missing 3 tackles in that Test (2nd).
They have Brian O'Driscoll down as missing none.

They have Davies as making 7 tackles, missing 3 and winning 2 turnovers.
They have BOD as making 12, missing 0 and winning 1 turnover.

I'd imagine Gatland would be disputing these stats if they were not true as the B&I Lions coach.

Here is the link from the B& I website to these particular stats

http://www.lionsrugby.com/2013tour/match_centre_2013.php?section=playstatsaway&fixid=169136

Given fhf was responding to someone who still thinks Davies was responsible for AAC's try,when I'm asserting he wasn't, why post stats? Trying to shift the agenda again?

TGA - the keyboard warriors may have been divided, but the Lions fans in Aus were not.

The Twitter abuse is dreadful, but if players have a Twitter a/c then they shouldn't be naive enough to think that abuse does not happen.

by asoreleftshoulder Sun 01 Sep 2013, 2:03 pm

flyhalffactory wrote:
Sin é wrote:
flyhalffactory wrote:
Sin é wrote:Why have the Lions Official stats of the match have Brian O'Driscoll missing no tackles and Davies missing 3?

Is the B&I Lions management out to get Davies or something?
What?........ have you got some sort of disorder?...... or are you the residential troll?

Right enough of this I have to wash my hair or pull my nails out one by one
Before you head off to do your nails, can you explain to me why the B&I Lions Official site would have Brian O'Driscoll down as missing no tackles in the 2nd Test and Davies as having missed 3.

What is their agenda to tell such lies?
Are you serious? I think you need some sort of help

BOD didn't miss any tackles and Davies did miss three

As I said BOD didn't miss AAC tackle because he officially didn't get to him before he passed the ball to Ashley-Cooper who was THREE METRES from the line when Davies missed the tackle........... that's a prime example of the stats not revealing the truth

Lies...... damn lies.......

AAC was 3 metres from the line when Davies missed the tackle because Davies was out of position,had he marked AAC like BoD told him to he could have smashed him as he caught the pass 7 metres from the try line.

by GloriousEmpire Sun 01 Sep 2013, 2:30 pm

ebop wrote:What's the end point of this discussion?

When someone compared Gatland to Hitler and JD to Himmler I believe is the traditional end of such a thread.

by asoreleftshoulder Sun 01 Sep 2013, 2:46 pm

The comparison doesn't work,Hitler knew how to plan an attack.

by BuzzScarlet Sun 01 Sep 2013, 2:50 pm

But Gatland knew how to win Wink

by kingjohn7 Sun 01 Sep 2013, 3:26 pm

asoreleftshoulder wrote:The comparison doesn't work,Hitler knew how to plan an attack.

by Guest Sun 01 Sep 2013, 4:20 pm

Ooooohh, awkward, bet even evil will not bring this thread to it's knees. Anyways, Gatland had no propaganda (SCW anyone?), rather just a stuff yous attitude and a bit of good old fashioned British bulldog spirit. You'd think that would be hailed.

by flyhalffactory Sun 01 Sep 2013, 4:27 pm

asoreleftshoulder

How can you make such fabrications in the light of the clear video evidence. Firstly you state there was a 4 man Lions defence to 3 Aussies when the ball came to AAC which was utter tosh. Now you are trying to say at that point BOD as the then acting captain was in the correct positional area for an Outside Centre and Davies (who had been screaming at him to get out of the breakdown area and defend in the 13 channel i.e. NEXT TO BOWE MARKING ASHLEY-COOPER..... but he was away with the fairies and wasnt going to listen to a mere first tour rookie. Davies would have covered AAC if BOD was covering the Aussie 13 as he should have been. And by the way BOD didnt shout for Davies to cover AAC he put his finger in the air to bluff that he had him covered...... yeah as if.

by asoreleftshoulder Sun 01 Sep 2013, 4:35 pm

flyhalffactory wrote:asoreleftshoulder

How can you make such fabrications in the light of the clear video evidence. Firstly you state there was a 4 man Lions defence to 3 Aussies when the ball came to AAC which was utter tosh. Now you are trying to say at that point BOD as the then acting captain was in the correct positional area for an Outside Centre and Davies (who had been screaming at him to get out of the breakdown area and defend in the 13 channel i.e. NEXT TO BOWE MARKING ASHLEY-COOPER..... but he was away with the fairies and wasnt going to listen to a mere first tour rookie. Davies would have covered AAC if BOD was covering the Aussie 13 as he should have been. And by the way BOD didnt shout for Davies to cover AAC he put his finger in the air to bluff that he had him covered...... yeah as if.

Where is this video evidence,I have previously shown images and videos which prove my point whereas you just say stuff that doesn't match up with the tape.Show me where Davies is screaming at BoD to get out of the breakdown area,show me where there isn't a 4 man defense cos every time I look at the tape I see Lydiate,BoD,Davies,Bowe.Why would Bowe be marking AAC when he was in a direct line with Davies as the ball leaves the ruck.

You keep saying this stuff yet when people tell you they don't see what you claim is there (and it's not just me,plenty of people have said the same thing on this thread and other ones) you act like we're all delusional and you and your 18 friends at a BBQ are the only ones who see the truth.

by flyhalffactory Sun 01 Sep 2013, 4:45 pm

asoreleftshoulder wrote:
flyhalffactory wrote:asoreleftshoulder

How can you make such fabrications in the light of the clear video evidence. Firstly you state there was a 4 man Lions defence to 3 Aussies when the ball came to AAC which was utter tosh. Now you are trying to say at that point BOD as the then acting captain was in the correct positional area for an Outside Centre and Davies (who had been screaming at him to get out of the breakdown area and defend in the 13 channel i.e. NEXT TO BOWE MARKING ASHLEY-COOPER..... but he was away with the fairies and wasnt going to listen to a mere first tour rookie. Davies would have covered AAC if BOD was covering the Aussie 13 as he should have been. And by the way BOD didnt shout for Davies to cover AAC he put his finger in the air to bluff that he had him covered...... yeah as if.
Where is this video evidence,I have previously shown images and videos which prove my point whereas you just say stuff that doesn't match up with the tape.Show me where Davies is screaming at BoD to get out of the breakdown area,show me where there isn't a 4 man defense cos every time I look at the tape I see Lydiate,BoD,Davies,Bowe.Why would Bowe be marking AAC when he was in a direct line with Davies as the ball leaves the ruck.

You keep saying this stuff yet when people tell you they don't see what you claim is there (and it's not just me,plenty of people have said the same thing on this thread and other ones) you act like we're all delusional and you and your 18 friends at a BBQ are the only ones who see the truth.

go to the previous page look at the utube link and run it from 7.49 mins. that should tell you everything you need to know.... if you. want even more damning evidence run it 4-5 seconds before that...... run it second by second

go back a page on here there is a utube link... run the play to 7.49 mins or if you want to see Foxy hollering run it back 4-5 seconds. at 7.49 mins

by asoreleftshoulder Sun 01 Sep 2013, 4:47 pm

flyhalffactory wrote:
asoreleftshoulder wrote:
flyhalffactory wrote:asoreleftshoulder

How can you make such fabrications in the light of the clear video evidence. Firstly you state there was a 4 man Lions defence to 3 Aussies when the ball came to AAC which was utter tosh. Now you are trying to say at that point BOD as the then acting captain was in the correct positional area for an Outside Centre and Davies (who had been screaming at him to get out of the breakdown area and defend in the 13 channel i.e. NEXT TO BOWE MARKING ASHLEY-COOPER..... but he was away with the fairies and wasnt going to listen to a mere first tour rookie. Davies would have covered AAC if BOD was covering the Aussie 13 as he should have been. And by the way BOD didnt shout for Davies to cover AAC he put his finger in the air to bluff that he had him covered...... yeah as if.
Where is this video evidence,I have previously shown images and videos which prove my point whereas you just say stuff that doesn't match up with the tape.Show me where Davies is screaming at BoD to get out of the breakdown area,show me where there isn't a 4 man defense cos every time I look at the tape I see Lydiate,BoD,Davies,Bowe.Why would Bowe be marking AAC when he was in a direct line with Davies as the ball leaves the ruck.

You keep saying this stuff yet when people tell you they don't see what you claim is there (and it's not just me,plenty of people have said the same thing on this thread and other ones) you act like we're all delusional and you and your 18 friends at a BBQ are the only ones who see the truth.
go to the previous page look at the utube link and run it from 7.49 mins. that should tell you everything you need to know.... if you. want even more damning evidence run it 4-5 seconds before that...... run it second by second

go back a page on here there is a utube link... run the play to 7.49 mins or if you want to see Foxy hollering run it back 4-5 seconds. at 7.49 mins

Yeah all that stuff supports my point not yours.You can clearly see 4 defenders ono the right hand side of the ruck and you can clearly see that BoD is in perfect position to tackle JoC which he does,you can also clearly see Davies looking at JoC and ball watching the whole time until AAC gets the pass and it's too late.

by Norfolklass Sun 01 Sep 2013, 5:02 pm

The Great Aukster wrote:
Hound of Harrow wrote:I have reluctantly tortured myself reading this thread after reading that it had been (briefly it seems) locked. I figured it would come down to the BOD v Davies selection issue...plus a few other things that have been through the wringer on here.

I have a question. How many of you were actually out in Aus for the tests?

I ask this because, while there was plenty of discussion amongst us about who should be starting in any particular game, once the 23 was announced it was pretty much "They're all Lions, let's get behind them."
All very laudable, but the thread is about some footballesque extremism coming into rugby to the point where an innocent player is targeted with twitter abuse. Was Gatland behind every player the way the fans were?
Gatland wasn't able (or didn't want) to present a coherent case that all Lions are equal, so naturally some fans suspected that some were more equal than others. He is directly responsible for engendering this divisiveness among Lions fans and has managed to alienate Lions fans despite the series win on the pitch.

What are you talking about Aukster? This is how you spend your Saturday nights? On 606? Gatland is a great coach with a great CV, a man I admire ( though his game plan stinks). We won. What is your problem specifically? That the series victory wasn't Irish enough? What divisiveness are you talking about? Why aren't all Lions equal? Explain? Why is Gatland a bad man? Would you have preferred an Australian victory? Instead of talking in riddles, man up, and explain your position.

by flyhalffactory Sun 01 Sep 2013, 6:25 pm

asoreleftshoulder wrote:
flyhalffactory wrote:
asoreleftshoulder wrote:
flyhalffactory wrote:asoreleftshoulder

How can you make such fabrications in the light of the clear video evidence. Firstly you state there was a 4 man Lions defence to 3 Aussies when the ball came to AAC which was utter tosh. Now you are trying to say at that point BOD as the then acting captain was in the correct positional area for an Outside Centre and Davies (who had been screaming at him to get out of the breakdown area and defend in the 13 channel i.e. NEXT TO BOWE MARKING ASHLEY-COOPER..... but he was away with the fairies and wasnt going to listen to a mere first tour rookie. Davies would have covered AAC if BOD was covering the Aussie 13 as he should have been. And by the way BOD didnt shout for Davies to cover AAC he put his finger in the air to bluff that he had him covered...... yeah as if.
Where is this video evidence,I have previously shown images and videos which prove my point whereas you just say stuff that doesn't match up with the tape.Show me where Davies is screaming at BoD to get out of the breakdown area,show me where there isn't a 4 man defense cos every time I look at the tape I see Lydiate,BoD,Davies,Bowe.Why would Bowe be marking AAC when he was in a direct line with Davies as the ball leaves the ruck.

You keep saying this stuff yet when people tell you they don't see what you claim is there (and it's not just me,plenty of people have said the same thing on this thread and other ones) you act like we're all delusional and you and your 18 friends at a BBQ are the only ones who see the truth.
go to the previous page look at the utube link and run it from 7.49 mins. that should tell you everything you need to know.... if you. want even more damning evidence run it 4-5 seconds before that...... run it second by second

go back a page on here there is a utube link... run the play to 7.49 mins or if you want to see Foxy hollering run it back 4-5 seconds. at 7.49 mins
Yeah all that stuff supports my point not yours.You can clearly see 4 defenders ono the right hand side of the ruck and you can clearly see that BoD is in perfect position to tackle JoC which he does,you can also clearly see Davies looking at JoC and ball watching the whole time until AAC gets the pass and it's too late.

OK I will provide you all the rope you want to hang yourself

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cETSHAnswos
OK STOP IT at
7.47 - just as the ball is coming out I see 3 Aussies JOC/AAC/TOMANE and I see DAVIES/BOWE...... a knackered Lydiate is next to Davies then BOD is in the rear centre of the ruck. Davies at this point tells BOD there is an Aussie overlap and he doesn't even look at Davies.
SO TELL ME WHERE ARE THE FOUR DEFENDERS COVERING THE THREE AUSSIES at that point.

7.48 - BOD ushers a knackered Lydiate to the base of the ruck but doesn't move himself and still is looking at the defensive breakdown.

7.49 - AT THE POINT THE BALL FLEW OUT OF THE BREAKDOWN TO AAC - tell me the FOUR lions defenders on the right hand side of the ruck......
I can STILL see Bowe covering the left winger TOMANE and Davies covering both the 13 and 12 slots in this case ASHLEY-COOPER and JOC..... you can now see Davies moving to cut off the JOC angle to AAC, BOD is still looking at Lydiate.

7.50 - Wonders never cease BOD begins to move - by this time JOC has had the ball for nearly 2 seconds if you freezeframe it now BOD is not even in the picture, but JOC has already run 5 metres and there is a clear 3-2 overlap with a tight 5 x 5 metre box in which Bowe and Davies has to defend against 3 aussies

7.51-7.52 - BOD still hasn't even touched JOC...... and the ball has been released to a rampaging AAC who picks it up full flight on the 5 metre line. Davies attempts to realign but cannae make it

7.53 - BOD tackles JOC or technically he hasn't as you can't tackle a man when the ball has already gone - Ahem BOD smell the coffee its already a TRY

You tell me at what point when the ball comes out of the breakdown are there 4 defenders in line against the 3 aussies?

by Casartelli Sun 01 Sep 2013, 6:56 pm

Thank goodness that porn is also available on t'internet, or off-season threads like this one would drive good, honest, rugby folk fekkin insane.

by theslosty Sun 01 Sep 2013, 6:58 pm

flyhalffactory wrote:
OK I will provide you all the rope you want to hang yourself

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cETSHAnswos
OK STOP IT at
7.47 - just as the ball is coming out I see 3 Aussies JOC/AAC/TOMANE and I see DAVIES/BOWE...... a knackered Lydiate is next to Davies then BOD is in the rear centre of the ruck. Davies at this point tells BOD there is an Aussie overlap and he doesn't even look at Davies.
SO TELL ME WHERE ARE THE FOUR DEFENDERS COVERING THE THREE AUSSIES at that point.

7.48 - BOD ushers a knackered Lydiate to the base of the ruck but doesn't move himself and still is looking at the defensive breakdown.

7.49 - AT THE POINT THE BALL FLEW OUT OF THE BREAKDOWN TO AAC - tell me the FOUR lions defenders on the right hand side of the ruck......
I can STILL see Bowe covering the left winger TOMANE and Davies covering both the 13 and 12 slots in this case ASHLEY-COOPER and JOC..... you can now see Davies moving to cut off the JOC angle to AAC, BOD is still looking at Lydiate.

7.50 - Wonders never cease BOD begins to move - by this time JOC has had the ball for nearly 2 seconds if you freezeframe it now BOD is not even in the picture, but JOC has already run 5 metres and there is a clear 3-2 overlap with a tight 5 x 5 metre box in which Bowe and Davies has to defend against 3 aussies

7.51-7.52 - BOD still hasn't even touched JOC...... and the ball has been released to a rampaging AAC who picks it up full flight on the 5 metre line. Davies attempts to realign but cannae make it

7.53 - BOD tackles JOC or technically he hasn't as you can't tackle a man when the ball has already gone - Ahem BOD smell the coffee its already a TRY

You tell me at what point when the ball comes out of the breakdown are there 4 defenders in line against the 3 aussies?

BOD is covering the 10 channel. He is not in the ruck. End of.
In fairness Lydiate isn't in a position to defend - so there are 3 defenders against 3 attackers.
BOD is planning to drift towards JOC. Clearly BOD wanted Davies to drift towards AAC, I don't know why he didn't as BOD has JOC wrapped up quite comfortably.
Perhaps there was some breakdown in communication between BOD and Davies, but all the same there is no point in trying to point either of them out as ignorant.
I would add that in the first two tests BOD was playing inside-centre, Davies outside him. There is plenty of evidence to support this if you so desire to see it.

"Wonders never cease BOD begins to move - by this time JOC has had the ball for nearly 2 seconds"

That's just not true and fabrications like this weaken your argument. BOD has already started sprinting towards JOC as he catches the ball.

Quite simply Davies just hesitated for too long and wouldn't make the decision to line up AAC early enough. He should have trusted BOD that he could deal with JOC.

It was one tiny mistake by Davies. Just one poor split-second decision but he made up for it in the last test.
I'm that BOD has made worse mistakes than that in his career.

by theslosty Sun 01 Sep 2013, 6:59 pm

flyhalffactory wrote:
OK I will provide you all the rope you want to hang yourself

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cETSHAnswos
OK STOP IT at
7.47 - just as the ball is coming out I see 3 Aussies JOC/AAC/TOMANE and I see DAVIES/BOWE...... a knackered Lydiate is next to Davies then BOD is in the rear centre of the ruck. Davies at this point tells BOD there is an Aussie overlap and he doesn't even look at Davies.
SO TELL ME WHERE ARE THE FOUR DEFENDERS COVERING THE THREE AUSSIES at that point.

7.48 - BOD ushers a knackered Lydiate to the base of the ruck but doesn't move himself and still is looking at the defensive breakdown.

7.49 - AT THE POINT THE BALL FLEW OUT OF THE BREAKDOWN TO AAC - tell me the FOUR lions defenders on the right hand side of the ruck......
I can STILL see Bowe covering the left winger TOMANE and Davies covering both the 13 and 12 slots in this case ASHLEY-COOPER and JOC..... you can now see Davies moving to cut off the JOC angle to AAC, BOD is still looking at Lydiate.

7.50 - Wonders never cease BOD begins to move - by this time JOC has had the ball for nearly 2 seconds if you freezeframe it now BOD is not even in the picture, but JOC has already run 5 metres and there is a clear 3-2 overlap with a tight 5 x 5 metre box in which Bowe and Davies has to defend against 3 aussies

7.51-7.52 - BOD still hasn't even touched JOC...... and the ball has been released to a rampaging AAC who picks it up full flight on the 5 metre line. Davies attempts to realign but cannae make it

7.53 - BOD tackles JOC or technically he hasn't as you can't tackle a man when the ball has already gone - Ahem BOD smell the coffee its already a TRY

You tell me at what point when the ball comes out of the breakdown are there 4 defenders in line against the 3 aussies?

BOD is covering the 10 channel. He is not in the ruck. End of.
In fairness Lydiate isn't in a position to defend - so there are 3 defenders against 3 attackers.
BOD is planning to drift towards JOC. Clearly BOD wanted Davies to drift towards AAC, I don't know why he didn't as BOD has JOC wrapped up quite comfortably.
Perhaps there was some breakdown in communication between BOD and Davies, but all the same there is no point in trying to point either of them out as ignorant.
I would add that in the first two tests BOD was playing inside-centre, Davies outside him. There is plenty of evidence to support this if you so desire to see it.

"Wonders never cease BOD begins to move - by this time JOC has had the ball for nearly 2 seconds"

That's just not true and fabrications like this weaken your argument. BOD has already started sprinting towards JOC as he catches the ball.

Quite simply Davies just hesitated for too long and wouldn't make the decision to line up AAC early enough. He should have trusted BOD that he could deal with JOC.

It was one tiny mistake by Davies. Just one poor split-second decision but he made up for it in the last test.
I'm that BOD has made worse mistakes than that in his career.

by Casartelli Sun 01 Sep 2013, 7:02 pm

theslosty wrote:
flyhalffactory wrote:
OK I will provide you all the rope you want to hang yourself

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cETSHAnswos
OK STOP IT at
7.47 - just as the ball is coming out I see 3 Aussies JOC/AAC/TOMANE and I see DAVIES/BOWE...... a knackered Lydiate is next to Davies then BOD is in the rear centre of the ruck. Davies at this point tells BOD there is an Aussie overlap and he doesn't even look at Davies.
SO TELL ME WHERE ARE THE FOUR DEFENDERS COVERING THE THREE AUSSIES at that point.

7.48 - BOD ushers a knackered Lydiate to the base of the ruck but doesn't move himself and still is looking at the defensive breakdown.

7.49 - AT THE POINT THE BALL FLEW OUT OF THE BREAKDOWN TO AAC - tell me the FOUR lions defenders on the right hand side of the ruck......
I can STILL see Bowe covering the left winger TOMANE and Davies covering both the 13 and 12 slots in this case ASHLEY-COOPER and JOC..... you can now see Davies moving to cut off the JOC angle to AAC, BOD is still looking at Lydiate.

7.50 - Wonders never cease BOD begins to move - by this time JOC has had the ball for nearly 2 seconds if you freezeframe it now BOD is not even in the picture, but JOC has already run 5 metres and there is a clear 3-2 overlap with a tight 5 x 5 metre box in which Bowe and Davies has to defend against 3 aussies

7.51-7.52 - BOD still hasn't even touched JOC...... and the ball has been released to a rampaging AAC who picks it up full flight on the 5 metre line. Davies attempts to realign but cannae make it

7.53 - BOD tackles JOC or technically he hasn't as you can't tackle a man when the ball has already gone - Ahem BOD smell the coffee its already a TRY

You tell me at what point when the ball comes out of the breakdown are there 4 defenders in line against the 3 aussies?
BOD is covering the 10 channel. He is not in the ruck. End of.
In fairness Lydiate isn't in a position to defend - so there are 3 defenders against 3 attackers.
BOD is planning to drift towards JOC. Clearly BOD wanted Davies to drift towards AAC, I don't know why he didn't as BOD has JOC wrapped up quite comfortably.
Perhaps there was some breakdown in communication between BOD and Davies, but all the same there is no point in trying to point either of them out as ignorant.
I would add that in the first two tests BOD was playing inside-centre, Davies outside him. There is plenty of evidence to support this if you so desire to see it.

"Wonders never cease BOD begins to move - by this time JOC has had the ball for nearly 2 seconds"

That's just not true and fabrications like this weaken your argument. BOD has already started sprinting......

BOD? "Sprinting"? Only if this clip (I haven't got as much free time as FHF to review this nonsense) is from 2001.

by flyhalffactory Sun 01 Sep 2013, 8:32 pm

theslosty wrote:
flyhalffactory wrote:
OK I will provide you all the rope you want to hang yourself

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cETSHAnswos
OK STOP IT at
7.47 - just as the ball is coming out I see 3 Aussies JOC/AAC/TOMANE and I see DAVIES/BOWE...... a knackered Lydiate is next to Davies then BOD is in the rear centre of the ruck. Davies at this point tells BOD there is an Aussie overlap and he doesn't even look at Davies.
SO TELL ME WHERE ARE THE FOUR DEFENDERS COVERING THE THREE AUSSIES at that point.

7.48 - BOD ushers a knackered Lydiate to the base of the ruck but doesn't move himself and still is looking at the defensive breakdown.

7.49 - AT THE POINT THE BALL FLEW OUT OF THE BREAKDOWN TO AAC - tell me the FOUR lions defenders on the right hand side of the ruck......
I can STILL see Bowe covering the left winger TOMANE and Davies covering both the 13 and 12 slots in this case ASHLEY-COOPER and JOC..... you can now see Davies moving to cut off the JOC angle to AAC, BOD is still looking at Lydiate.

7.50 - Wonders never cease BOD begins to move - by this time JOC has had the ball for nearly 2 seconds if you freezeframe it now BOD is not even in the picture, but JOC has already run 5 metres and there is a clear 3-2 overlap with a tight 5 x 5 metre box in which Bowe and Davies has to defend against 3 aussies

7.51-7.52 - BOD still hasn't even touched JOC...... and the ball has been released to a rampaging AAC who picks it up full flight on the 5 metre line. Davies attempts to realign but cannae make it

7.53 - BOD tackles JOC or technically he hasn't as you can't tackle a man when the ball has already gone - Ahem BOD smell the coffee its already a TRY

You tell me at what point when the ball comes out of the breakdown are there 4 defenders in line against the 3 aussies?
BOD is covering the 10 channel. He is not in the ruck. End of.
In fairness Lydiate isn't in a position to defend - so there are 3 defenders against 3 attackers.
BOD is planning to drift towards JOC. Clearly BOD wanted Davies to drift towards AAC, I don't know why he didn't as BOD has JOC wrapped up quite comfortably.
Perhaps there was some breakdown in communication between BOD and Davies, but all the same there is no point in trying to point either of them out as ignorant.
I would add that in the first two tests BOD was playing inside-centre, Davies outside him. There is plenty of evidence to support this if you so desire to see it.

"Wonders never cease BOD begins to move - by this time JOC has had the ball for nearly 2 seconds"

That's just not true and fabrications like this weaken your argument. BOD has already started sprinting towards JOC as he catches the ball.

Quite simply Davies just hesitated for too long and wouldn't make the decision to line up AAC early enough. He should have trusted BOD that he could deal with JOC.

It was one tiny mistake by Davies. Just one poor split-second decision but he made up for it in the last test.
I'm that BOD has made worse mistakes than that in his career.

The evidence is conclusive
Everyone I know who has looked at it slo-mo is in agreement, BOD is most certainly not covering the 10 channel and even if he was he shouldn't have been there, the evidence is even more damning when you run the play on and view the try from the rear..... the last player to react is BOD! even a knackered Lydiate runs towards JOC before him........ JOC is actually running before BOD even turns his head.

The first test BOD was never covering I/C that's utter rubbish, at best he covered left-right for a few moments in the centre of the park.... but even then he didn't do much, and the second test Mr G was clear with the format of play that BOD was a 13 full stop, not a sniff of 12 even in a left-right motion. I believe when Gatland mentioned mismanagement in the second test it was clear where he was coming from...... when Warburton went off the game management and leadership fell apart.

by The Great Aukster Sun 01 Sep 2013, 8:47 pm

Norfolklass wrote:
The Great Aukster wrote:
Hound of Harrow wrote:I have reluctantly tortured myself reading this thread after reading that it had been (briefly it seems) locked. I figured it would come down to the BOD v Davies selection issue...plus a few other things that have been through the wringer on here.

I have a question. How many of you were actually out in Aus for the tests?

I ask this because, while there was plenty of discussion amongst us about who should be starting in any particular game, once the 23 was announced it was pretty much "They're all Lions, let's get behind them."
All very laudable, but the thread is about some footballesque extremism coming into rugby to the point where an innocent player is targeted with twitter abuse. Was Gatland behind every player the way the fans were?
Gatland wasn't able (or didn't want) to present a coherent case that all Lions are equal, so naturally some fans suspected that some were more equal than others. He is directly responsible for engendering this divisiveness among Lions fans and has managed to alienate Lions fans despite the series win on the pitch.
What are you talking about Aukster? This is how you spend your Saturday nights? On 606? Gatland is a great coach with a great CV, a man I admire ( though his game plan stinks). We won. What is your problem specifically? That the series victory wasn't Irish enough? What divisiveness are you talking about? Why aren't all Lions equal? Explain? Why is Gatland a bad man? Would you have preferred an Australian victory? Instead of talking in riddles, man up, and explain your position.

The very fact that this thread has continued for so long is ample evidence of the division among fans. Gatland's inept handling of the BOD dropping has not only caused the twitter backlash on Davies but has polarised Lions fans into constituent countries rather than uniting them under one banner. If Gatland had any vestige of media intelligence, he should have realised the media storm he would create and clearly explained his reasoning. The absence of which allowed a broad spectrum of speculation to engulf the papers, and in turn fans could choose whichever conspiracy theory tickled their fancy (including favouritism).
Gatland isn't a bad man just woefully naive in front of a microphone. His single-minded "win at any cost" mentality is perfect for building success over a period of time, but questionable when trying to "gel" Lions he's never met before in next to no time. Objectively the Lions should have won the series comfortably, but only edged it through good fortune, hardly a ringing endorsement of the coach but a wins a win and the Lions actually needed to win this one badly. The antipathy shown towards Davies from one side and O'Driscoll on the other could and should have been avoided by Gatland "manning up" and offering the explanation the world's media craved.

by BuzzScarlet Sun 01 Sep 2013, 8:54 pm

Hey who gives a damn, BOD was dropped and rightly so, he was lucky to make the tour full stop. Who gives a stuff if all the BOD appreciation society are still gutted at him being dropped, the history books will show Davies played in all 3 test and that the lions won the series! The lions is bigger than 1 man, yes that's right, even BOD! so no amount of whinging about who's at fault for missed tackles and any other mistakes is going to change a thing!

Well done to the British and Irish lions 2013, if some so called supporters don't like it, then tough Shiite!!! Smile

by The Saint Sun 01 Sep 2013, 10:18 pm

The Great Aukster wrote:
Norfolklass wrote:
The Great Aukster wrote:
Hound of Harrow wrote:I have reluctantly tortured myself reading this thread after reading that it had been (briefly it seems) locked. I figured it would come down to the BOD v Davies selection issue...plus a few other things that have been through the wringer on here.

I have a question. How many of you were actually out in Aus for the tests?

I ask this because, while there was plenty of discussion amongst us about who should be starting in any particular game, once the 23 was announced it was pretty much "They're all Lions, let's get behind them."
All very laudable, but the thread is about some footballesque extremism coming into rugby to the point where an innocent player is targeted with twitter abuse. Was Gatland behind every player the way the fans were?
Gatland wasn't able (or didn't want) to present a coherent case that all Lions are equal, so naturally some fans suspected that some were more equal than others. He is directly responsible for engendering this divisiveness among Lions fans and has managed to alienate Lions fans despite the series win on the pitch.
What are you talking about Aukster? This is how you spend your Saturday nights? On 606? Gatland is a great coach with a great CV, a man I admire ( though his game plan stinks). We won. What is your problem specifically? That the series victory wasn't Irish enough? What divisiveness are you talking about? Why aren't all Lions equal? Explain? Why is Gatland a bad man? Would you have preferred an Australian victory? Instead of talking in riddles, man up, and explain your position.
The very fact that this thread has continued for so long is ample evidence of the division among fans. Gatland's inept handling of the BOD dropping has not only caused the twitter backlash on Davies but has polarised Lions fans into constituent countries rather than uniting them under one banner. If Gatland had any vestige of media intelligence, he should have realised the media storm he would create and clearly explained his reasoning. The absence of which allowed a broad spectrum of speculation to engulf the papers, and in turn fans could choose whichever conspiracy theory tickled their fancy (including favouritism).
Gatland isn't a bad man just woefully naive in front of a microphone. His single-minded "win at any cost" mentality is perfect for building success over a period of time, but questionable when trying to "gel" Lions he's never met before in next to no time. Objectively the Lions should have won the series comfortably, but only edged it through good fortune, hardly a ringing endorsement of the coach but a wins a win and the Lions actually needed to win this one badly. The antipathy shown towards Davies from one side and O'Driscoll on the other could and should have been avoided by Gatland "manning up" and offering the explanation the world's media craved.

It was only inept if your Irish. But saying that, it's an inept decision in itself to drop BOD. I wonder what the public reaction over in Ireland will be once Schmidt finally drops him?

by The Great Aukster Sun 01 Sep 2013, 10:20 pm

BuzzScarlet wrote:Hey who gives a damn, BOD was dropped and rightly so, he was lucky to make the tour full stop.

So Gatland got his selection wrong?

by The Great Aukster Sun 01 Sep 2013, 10:22 pm

The Saint wrote:It was only inept if your Irish. But saying that, it's an inept decision in itself to drop BOD. I wonder what the public reaction over in Ireland will be once Schmidt finally drops him?

I don't think Davies is Irish yet he is the one who has suffered by Warren's ineptitude.

by BuzzScarlet Sun 01 Sep 2013, 10:37 pm

Yes, IMO, Gatland did get his selection wrong, I personally wouldn't have taken an ageing and in decline player like BOD on tour.

I also believed that Falatau and O'brien should have started in the back row for the first 2 test matches but Gatland made the the call to go with heaslip and croft/lydiate but he made his choice and certainly doesn't need to explain it or justify his selections, his job was to pick a team and win, he did that, end of.

BOD shouldn't be given anymore or any less respect than any other player that was dropped during the test series.

by The Saint Sun 01 Sep 2013, 10:37 pm

He hasn't suffered anything due to Warren. However he has been the victim of some bitter Irish twitter trolls. That's the fault of them only, and in part Wood and McBride who made daft comments that fuelled the fire, and neither backtracked when they were shown up to be wrong either.

by theslosty Sun 01 Sep 2013, 11:18 pm

flyhalffactory wrote:
theslosty wrote:
flyhalffactory wrote:
OK I will provide you all the rope you want to hang yourself

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cETSHAnswos
OK STOP IT at
7.47 - just as the ball is coming out I see 3 Aussies JOC/AAC/TOMANE and I see DAVIES/BOWE...... a knackered Lydiate is next to Davies then BOD is in the rear centre of the ruck. Davies at this point tells BOD there is an Aussie overlap and he doesn't even look at Davies.
SO TELL ME WHERE ARE THE FOUR DEFENDERS COVERING THE THREE AUSSIES at that point.

7.48 - BOD ushers a knackered Lydiate to the base of the ruck but doesn't move himself and still is looking at the defensive breakdown.

7.49 - AT THE POINT THE BALL FLEW OUT OF THE BREAKDOWN TO AAC - tell me the FOUR lions defenders on the right hand side of the ruck......
I can STILL see Bowe covering the left winger TOMANE and Davies covering both the 13 and 12 slots in this case ASHLEY-COOPER and JOC..... you can now see Davies moving to cut off the JOC angle to AAC, BOD is still looking at Lydiate.

7.50 - Wonders never cease BOD begins to move - by this time JOC has had the ball for nearly 2 seconds if you freezeframe it now BOD is not even in the picture, but JOC has already run 5 metres and there is a clear 3-2 overlap with a tight 5 x 5 metre box in which Bowe and Davies has to defend against 3 aussies

7.51-7.52 - BOD still hasn't even touched JOC...... and the ball has been released to a rampaging AAC who picks it up full flight on the 5 metre line. Davies attempts to realign but cannae make it

7.53 - BOD tackles JOC or technically he hasn't as you can't tackle a man when the ball has already gone - Ahem BOD smell the coffee its already a TRY

You tell me at what point when the ball comes out of the breakdown are there 4 defenders in line against the 3 aussies?
BOD is covering the 10 channel. He is not in the ruck. End of.
In fairness Lydiate isn't in a position to defend - so there are 3 defenders against 3 attackers.
BOD is planning to drift towards JOC. Clearly BOD wanted Davies to drift towards AAC, I don't know why he didn't as BOD has JOC wrapped up quite comfortably.
Perhaps there was some breakdown in communication between BOD and Davies, but all the same there is no point in trying to point either of them out as ignorant.
I would add that in the first two tests BOD was playing inside-centre, Davies outside him. There is plenty of evidence to support this if you so desire to see it.

"Wonders never cease BOD begins to move - by this time JOC has had the ball for nearly 2 seconds"

That's just not true and fabrications like this weaken your argument. BOD has already started sprinting towards JOC as he catches the ball.

Quite simply Davies just hesitated for too long and wouldn't make the decision to line up AAC early enough. He should have trusted BOD that he could deal with JOC.

It was one tiny mistake by Davies. Just one poor split-second decision but he made up for it in the last test.
I'm that BOD has made worse mistakes than that in his career.
The evidence is conclusive
Everyone I know who has looked at it slo-mo is in agreement, BOD is most certainly not covering the 10 channel and even if he was he shouldn't have been there, the evidence is even more damning when you run the play on and view the try from the rear..... the last player to react is BOD! even a knackered Lydiate runs towards JOC before him........ JOC is actually running before BOD even turns his head.

The first test BOD was never covering I/C that's utter rubbish, at best he covered left-right for a few moments in the centre of the park.... but even then he didn't do much, and the second test Mr G was clear with the format of play that BOD was a 13 full stop, not a sniff of 12 even in a left-right motion. I believe when Gatland mentioned mismanagement in the second test it was clear where he was coming from...... when Warburton went off the game management and leadership fell apart.

"even a knackered Lydiate runs towards JOC before him"

I really do not know what clip you and your 18 friends are watching, but nearly everyone else agrees that Davies was partly to blame for the try.

by Sin é Mon 02 Sep 2013, 12:04 am

BuzzScarlet wrote:Yes, IMO, Gatland did get his selection wrong, I personally wouldn't have taken an ageing and in decline player like BOD on tour.

Rumour has it that Gatland tried to leave him at home but the main sponsors reacted badly.

by flyhalffactory Mon 02 Sep 2013, 12:16 am

I really do not know what clip you and your 18 friends are watching, but nearly everyone else agrees that Davies was partly to blame for the try.

Who is nearly everyone?........... I haven't read one English, Scottish or Welsh poster who has disagree with the second by second play, but as I said quite often it wasn't one singular player who was to blame for the try (there was a whole 3-5 mins of errors of judgement and ineptitude) . But Sin "3 Mis-tackles" E and others on here are implying that yet again it was Foxy who was to blame and no one else to justify their stance that BOD should have been selected ahead of him for the third test.

I am one of BODs biggest fans and have seen his first three Lions tours, but some of the comments beggar belief.

What Davies should have done was left the JOC defensive line to BOD and just covered AAC, but then it would have been said by some posters that he would have still been at fault when BOD wouldn't have caught him.

by Guest Mon 02 Sep 2013, 1:34 am

flyhalf, I think you do have to accept that Davies was partly at fault for the try, as was BOD. Whether through a breakdown in communication, or trust, regardless, Davies looked like he wanted a ma to man rush, and BOD trusted his pace on the drift. After 15 phases, it's understandable that the centre may not be defending exactly in his channel, or any other position. It's a fairly trivial issue, and plucking at hand gestures and who called for who to move or cover just shows how desperate this 'debate' is.

The crux is that that one event has little bearing on whether Gatland was right to drop BOD if he wished to do so, which he did. The Lions won. They were far more accurate and cohesive than the previous two Tests. He went for bust, arguably controversial based on the number of 'Welsh' Lions, but if you're basing it individually on each player in isolation, there is little room for grievance. Including O'Driscoll and Davies. Microscopic analysis like this solves nothing; as with history, the same 'factual' evidence will always lead people to different conclusions based on their bias, interpretation, and perspective at the time of the event, if they experienced it. O'Driscoll didn't have a fantastic Tour individually, but he won, and I'm sure he is very happy about that, at the same time wishing he could have played a part in that third Test, without feeling the need to vilify anyone. He's still a great player, and I'm sure he will still have a part to play in Ireland's fortunes next season.

Let this thread die?

by flyhalffactory Mon 02 Sep 2013, 1:49 am

miaow wrote:flyhalf, I think you do have to accept that Davies was partly at fault for the try, as was BOD. Whether through a breakdown in communication, or trust, regardless, Davies looked like he wanted a ma to man rush, and BOD trusted his pace on the drift. After 15 phases, it's understandable that the centre may not be defending exactly in his channel, or any other position. It's a fairly trivial issue, and plucking at hand gestures and who called for who to move or cover just shows how desperate this 'debate' is.

The crux is that that one event has little bearing on whether Gatland was right to drop BOD if he wished to do so, which he did. The Lions won. They were far more accurate and cohesive than the previous two Tests. He went for bust, arguably controversial based on the number of 'Welsh' Lions, but if you're basing it individually on each player in isolation, there is little room for grievance. Including O'Driscoll and Davies. Microscopic analysis like this solves nothing; as with history, the same 'factual' evidence will always lead people to different conclusions based on their bias, interpretation, and perspective at the time of the event, if they experienced it. O'Driscoll didn't have a fantastic Tour individually, but he won, and I'm sure he is very happy about that, at the same time wishing he could have played a part in that third Test, without feeling the need to vilify anyone. He's still a great player, and I'm sure he will still have a part to play in Ireland's fortunes next season.

Let this thread die?

Its not that I don't accept a players fault........ its I don't believe it was one mans fault which some posters were and still are trying to suggest and for obvious reasons.

Yes Davies should have left JOC to BOD full stop, and let history judge the passage of play.

And I agree with you (as I have often said) BOD is one of the all time greats, definitely should have toured and who still has a lot to offer. IMHO he was treated fairly by Mr G who gave adequate reasons for the 3rd Test selection.

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