Thoughts 2 on the 4Ns

4Ns continues injury toll rises for all sides AB`s concerns me most,Nonu,Franks,Tom Taylor all picking up injuries.
Australia,Argentina were both much better,2Nd Bledisloe concerns most of the rest of this post.AB set piece much
better.Some problems for both sides Lineouts,Scrums still needs work by IRB especially on the speed of feed.
Peyper seemed to have a bit of a "Homer" approach on Saturday.Crooked feeds still occurring needs for work.
Welcome back to the "Bajalaa"]second shove,comments on professional fouls conceding Penalties instead of
tries cynically is naïve.EVERY side plays the Ref it`s politely called gamesmanship.Aus were warned about it by
Joubert last week.Congrats Tony Woodcock on number 100 and a great one too,Tom Taylor for a very good debut
before injury forced him off,Ben Smith for using Joe Rocokoko`s impressive strike rate record and new Number 6.
Excellent defence by AB`s and finishing on another day it would have been 4 tries,poor protection of the 9 at
Lineout and Scrums.
Breakdown area started poorly,but came back well second half,"Captain Tackles"was presumeably by design
standing off in mid field instead of committing himself early on.In the last 20 minutes he was every where
growing more dominant every minute.Get him REALLY Match fit asnd he will be back to his 2012 best.
DC,Barrett and Slade expected fit for Argentina some key players may be rested,but myself would try
to get as many tries and bonus point there.
Taylor expected to be back fit for SA test too a must win for AB`s if they want another 4N`s all sides will get
harder to beat now.Australia need to get key players fit,and think about selection picking a player like Mogg.
Watch him play like he does for the Brumbies then slagging him off for it is naïve at best.
One point the Moore try incident agreed Ref should have gone upstairs,thought it was grounded short and
an attempt at "rabbiting" but was worth a look often given.

Yeah I thought he scored. It should have been looked at. Hooper also could have got a quick ball to JOC down the left side but that would have taken some vision and a real snap pass to put him in.

Oz backs are lacking confidence and its just too early for Mogg, but as it is theres no experienced playmaker and thats costing them all over the park...no ones controlling the play.

One thing going for Oz vs SA is that they wont be tougher than theyve faced so far by any means but the other is theyre not winning. They could be winless this year if not for one sneaky win vs the Lions.

We need Oz to take the Boks in the next match and that will seriously add to our title chances.

Third Lions test was a misnomer in my opinion,thought first two Lions Tests should have gone the other way.Aus suffered more injuries in first one than I`ve ever seen even a forward having to play midfield only poor goal kicking cost them that one.

yeah its more the amount of losing thats kicking into their psyche that I mean Alan. The old players were losing under the old coach, the new and old players are losing under the new coach so the players and coaches are all losing. Say the word enough and it starts hanging around.

Unfortunately for the Boks Oz will see it as their best chance of redemption, some players having actually beaten them as recently as last year. Theyll be bouyed by this mornings argie game as well. We've certainly got the best draw now and by the time the Boks get here theyll be stuffed after Oz throw everything at them. Oz have two weeks at home to analyse and prepare and theyve just got to get combinations working.

SA meanwhile just need to survive the next two matches and theyll have done well. Win even one and their two home games could give them the title.

The other side of the coin is Meyer will cop a lot of criticism this next two weeks, they will be very focused on an improved performance. and Australia is the match Sa believe realistically they can win away from home to give them any hopes of the title.

That right, it certainly is. They look ready for the taking as well and although Oz have done well vs SA this team hasnt, and its very different to last years. Honestly don't know what they can do other than shuffle the Folaus and JOCs around a bit, move Mogg out and persevere with Lilo and Toomua? Genias also off and Hoopers the only one supporting Horwill it seems.

Real problems there Biltong with no easy remedies it seems...

What have you guys thought of the redeeming standards?

I thought Jaco Peyper was very weak in not using the sin bin for cynical infringements at the breakdown, where as Steve Walsh refereed a good breakdown often utilising his touch judges and TMO to maintain a fairer contest than The Abs vs Oz match.

I thought both were not at their best for different reasons.

Peyper should have yellow carded Read.

Walsh simply allowed Argentina to slow the game down and not allowing us to build any rythm, watching the second half was like listening to paint dry as there was nothing to see.

Before every set phase they had an injury, a team talk and wasted time.

It is a tactic I can't stand.

He also watched from only a few meters away how Driaan Strauss was pulled into the line out whilst Argentina went into that space for a try. However I suppose it was too early and he hasn't woken up yet.

Biltong wrote:I thought both were not at their best for different reasons.

Peyper should have yellow carded Read.

Walsh simply allowed Argentina to slow the game down and not allowing us to build any rythm, watching the second half was like listening to paint dry as there was nothing to see.

Before every set phase they had an injury, a team talk and wasted time.

It is a tactic I can't stand.

He also watched from only a few meters away how Driaan Strauss was pulled into the line out whilst Argentina went into that space for a try. However I suppose it was too early and he hasn't woken up yet.

Bill

You can say the same for SA, they are far from being saintly. I saw SA getting frustrated but they were trying it on at the ruck too. I think Walsh was pretty fair at the breakdown to both sides.

maestegmafia wrote:

Biltong wrote:I thought both were not at their best for different reasons.

Peyper should have yellow carded Read.

Walsh simply allowed Argentina to slow the game down and not allowing us to build any rythm, watching the second half was like listening to paint dry as there was nothing to see.

Before every set phase they had an injury, a team talk and wasted time.

It is a tactic I can't stand.

He also watched from only a few meters away how Driaan Strauss was pulled into the line out whilst Argentina went into that space for a try. However I suppose it was too early and he hasn't woken up yet.

Bill

You can say the same for SA, they are far from being saintly. I saw SA getting frustrated but they were trying it on at the ruck too. I think Walsh was pretty fair at the breakdown to both sides.

Maes it seems you and Notch misinterpret what I am saying.

Firstly the breakdown, all teams try and get away with stuff, that is a given, we didn't adapt that is a given.

However, and this is a BIG however, our standard tactic is not to niggle, bite, finger in the face or pull players into the ruck, maul or line out.

Yes we play hard and physical rugby, yes we get carded for high tackles, the odd foul play etc.

But we don't go out with a collective mindset of playing the player off the ball.

Don't confuse the hard tactics of the Boks with what Argentina did off the ball. Our goal is secure ball, and get the ruck ove a.s.a.p

We also don't play slow down tactics.

You can say what you want, the stuff we do at the ruck is nowhere near cynical.

Biltong wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

Biltong wrote:I thought both were not at their best for different reasons.

Peyper should have yellow carded Read.

Walsh simply allowed Argentina to slow the game down and not allowing us to build any rythm, watching the second half was like listening to paint dry as there was nothing to see.

Before every set phase they had an injury, a team talk and wasted time.

It is a tactic I can't stand.

He also watched from only a few meters away how Driaan Strauss was pulled into the line out whilst Argentina went into that space for a try. However I suppose it was too early and he hasn't woken up yet.

Bill

You can say the same for SA, they are far from being saintly. I saw SA getting frustrated but they were trying it on at the ruck too. I think Walsh was pretty fair at the breakdown to both sides.

Maes it seems you and Notch misinterpret what I am saying.

Firstly the breakdown, all teams try and get away with stuff, that is a given, we didn't adapt that is a given.

However, and this is a BIG however, our standard tactic is not to niggle, bite, finger in the face or pull players into the ruck, maul or line out.

Yes we play hard and physical rugby, yes we get carded for high tackles, the odd foul play etc.

But we don't go out with a collective mindset of playing the player off the ball.

Don't confuse the hard tactics of the Boks with what Argentina did off the ball. Our goal is secure ball, and get the ruck ove a.s.a.p

We also don't play slow down tactics.

You can say what you want, the stuff we do at the ruck is nowhere near cynical.

no where near as cynical as what? I thought the two sides tried equally to get away with as much as possible and Walsh kept he game even and had a very good dialogue with both teams.

There were a number of mitigating factors that contributed to the Boks big win last week, home advantage, injures to key Pumas, a liberal advantage at the breakdown and mostly a lack of training time before the match, contributed to the big SA win.

I knew this game would be a lot closer for one because the Pumas had time together to train, to organise themselves. They count rucked well, stopped mauls, they played really well.

They should have the better of the ozzies this season at home.

I also knew the game was going to be closer, I expected a similar situation and tactics as last year.

Just a note, the Argentine player has been cited for the biting incident.

Argentina forward cited on biting charge
25 August 2013, 09:25

Worcester Warriors and Argentina loose-forward Leonardo Senatore has been cited for allegedly sinking his teeth into the arm of South Africa lock Eban Etzebeth in a Castle Lager Rugby Championship clash in Mendoza on Saturday.

The Springboks won the feisty encounter 22-17 but were unhappy with a number of incidents in the game, with flank Francois Louw also claiming an attempted eye-gouging.

"Senatore is alleged to have contravened Law 10.4 (m) Acts contrary to good sportsmanship when he allegedly bit South African player Eben Etzebeth," tournament governing body Sanzar said in a press release on Sunday.

"Upon further review of the match footage, the Citing Commissioner deemed in his opinion the incident had met the Red Card threshold for foul play."

Sanzar offered no details of when the disciplinary hearing would be held. The International Rugby Board's minimum ban for players found guilty of biting is 12 weeks, with a maximum sanction of four years.

There are a few factors Nick Mallet mentioned during the week before the test.

Their pitch is narrower, therefor there is less soace to attack wide. He mentioned their passion and that it would be back. We all knew that, seemingly Meyer didn't.

Biltong wrote:I also knew the game was going to be closer, I expected a similar situation and tactics as last year.

Just a note, the Argentine player has been cited for the biting incident.

Argentina forward cited on biting charge
25 August 2013, 09:25

Worcester Warriors and Argentina loose-forward Leonardo Senatore has been cited for allegedly sinking his teeth into the arm of South Africa lock Eban Etzebeth in a Castle Lager Rugby Championship clash in Mendoza on Saturday.

The Springboks won the feisty encounter 22-17 but were unhappy with a number of incidents in the game, with flank Francois Louw also claiming an attempted eye-gouging.

"Senatore is alleged to have contravened Law 10.4 (m) Acts contrary to good sportsmanship when he allegedly bit South African player Eben Etzebeth," tournament governing body Sanzar said in a press release on Sunday.

"Upon further review of the match footage, the Citing Commissioner deemed in his opinion the incident had met the Red Card threshold for foul play."

Sanzar offered no details of when the disciplinary hearing would be held. The International Rugby Board's minimum ban for players found guilty of biting is 12 weeks, with a maximum sanction of four years.

There are a few factors Nick Mallet mentioned during the week before the test.

Their pitch is narrower, therefor there is less soace to attack wide. He mentioned their passion and that it would be back. We all knew that, seemingly Meyer didn't.

I think the only reason it wasn't reviewed by the TMO is because they lost comms and couldn't discuss the incident.

Etzbeth was being a bit of a dirty bugger in that situation it was very much like Hartley biting Steven Ferris in the six nations last year. Only difference being that Leonardo Senatore doesn't have an appalling reputation for on field violence.

It looked like there was a lot going on at the bottom of rucks by both sides. Both teams have a reputation for that sort of thing.