Champions League Group Stages

First topic message reminder :

The draw is tonight and we could have some potentially crazy strong groups, Manchester City have a 50% chance of being in the same group as Bayern Munich or Barcelona.

What is the tie everybody wants to see in the group stages?

Is Ligue 1 better than Italy right now? Certainly PSG I think would win the Serie A. But then again Marseille could not get a point in their brutal group.

Arsenal shouldn't fear anyone with the team playing the way it is. They have they're eyes on city and that showed tonight. The way you have to look at is do any of the other sides fancy Arsenal? bet they're just as worried as Arsenal would be. Real are hot and cold, Barca are not the side they were, especially without Messi with obviously Bayern and Athletico for me are the hardest sides to play. PSG are a tough game but you look at a home game against them and you fancy it for me.

Utd I think will struggle whoever we play and may sneak through. Then knocked out in the 1/4's if we get there. League the most important thing and a cup run hopefully.

Liam wrote:Arsenal shouldn't fear anyone with the team playing the way it is. They have they're eyes on city and that showed tonight. The way you have to look at is do any of the other sides fancy Arsenal? bet they're just as worried as Arsenal would be. Real are hot and cold, Barca are not the side they were, especially without Messi with obviously Bayern and Athletico for me are the hardest sides to play. PSG are a tough game but you look at a home game against them and you fancy it for me.

Utd I think will struggle whoever we play and may sneak through. Then knocked out in the 1/4's if we get there. League the most important thing and a cup run hopefully.

I agree, I am an Arsenal fan, and I know we won't be favored against a Munich, Barca, or Real but right now Barca and Munich both suffering injuries to their best players. If you have to play one of these sides the time might be early on before they get Messi back or while Munich has some injury woes. Of course it would have been better to win the group, but for me I think the team psychologically was looking toward the city and Chelsea matches next week. Win, lose, or draw I expect a much better performance from them in the weekend eventhough I think city should be favored with the way they have played at home.

Arsenal can play with almost anyone on their day, shouldn't really be worried. Yeah, it's a tough draw now but you have to play these teams anyway. This competition is really a luxury now, due to the fact of Arsenal having to prioritise the EPL because of the strong position they find themselves in. You could already see Wenger thinking about Saturday.

If I was an Arsenal fan, I'd want the toughest team. Just to actually see where the side really is, in comparison to the giants of Europe & where they need to improve, if they were to go out. I think it's easy to say 'Atletico' but they are a hugely under-rated team. They play like Simeone, never give you an inch & not only are they more hard working offensively/defensively than Madrid or PSG, they actually have serious quality & a striker who is rivaling Suarez/Aguero in terms of stats & min per goal etc. Saw Atletico go to the Bernabeu & win this season, just shows how good a side they are.

One things for sure, we're going to get some exciting games in the second round. Can't wait. Agree, in regards to United, can see them sneaking through second round & then exiting in the QF's. That would not be a bad achievement for Moyes in his first year. He's focusing on EPL.

John you talk allot of sense on football I have to say, very frank with your opinions and most of the time spot on, is that the case with all Newcastle fans? haha.

In all seriousness, Athletico are dark horses for the competition imo. They are a seriously good side with an outstanding striker. I think Arsenal crave a top side because its a no lose situation. If they lose, well they went out to a top side. Win and they're serious contenders and gain momentum. Bayern would be a great draw for them imo.

On utd, as a fan i'm hoping for an easy draw just for pure confidence although the way we're playing there isn't an 'easy' draw per se. I used to look at the Villa fixture away and look forward to an easy, traditional even, 3 points. I'm worried about the game on sunday this time around. Massive game because if we win, we have a run of games which are all winnable and if we can get the confidence back up, with RVP and Rooney fit, we can get back in the mix of the top 4.

The whole point of being in the CL is to play the top teams, and having already beaten Bayern and BVB away this year we shouldn't fear anyone. I'm already looking forward to watching a great tie against someone. And can't draw Drogba :P

In terms of the potential teams could play, not a huge amount to choose between them, PSG probably the best possible draw.

I agree, if Arsenal beat a huge side then they are real contenders if they lose to that side they can focus their energy on league. The whole reason to be in this competition is to test yourselves against the Munich's, Barca's, and Real's of the world. A win against one of these clubs in European football gets remembered by both sets of fans, the media etc. It is not of course a championship, but it is huge in terms of prestige and bragging rights and also can infuse your side with a lot of confidence and experience playing against the best is also invaluable.

Athletico are an unknown force against English opposition.

Athletico are a little bit like Arsenal in the respect that they are doing much better than they were and are playing a very good brand of football.

Could we call Arsenal a dark horse- maybe and maybe not- They still have a very good record in Europe. but PSG, athletico and arsernal are teams that others could under value.

Even still I would back Arsenal against the other 2. possibly not against the other 3 in the group

Just ask Chelsea about Athletico's force..

I have 2 words for you there though MJ

Radamel Falcao   

Atletico is very strong I don't underestimate them at all, they are tough in defense and lethal in attack. I don't rate PSG as highly as others do. I think they are very strong with Zlatan, Cavani, Thiago, etc. but they just have not faced the kind of competition that a premier league CL team or a Bundesliga or la Liga champion's league side faces on a weekly basis. Ligue 1 I think is a good league, but I don't see them being battle tested like Arsenal. Arsenal for all there supposed weakness of schedule have played a lot harder schedule than anything PSG has seen.

A real Madrid v psg match would be pretty special in the quarters though.

Round 2 for Ronaldo v Zlatan!

nice draw for us, although im not confident of beating anybody at the minute.

english teams draw just shows you how important it is to win the group. arsenal and city draw are the two stand outs

City vs Barca and Arsenal vs Bayern.

Oh my!

Arsenal will get cut to ribbons again. Their passing game just isnt effective against teams like Munich who will dominate possession. Dortmund drew Zenit so it shows how costly finishing second was.
I actually think Man City have a good chance against Barca who arent the force they were a few years back. Its easily the stand out tie though.
United should go through and Chelsea going against Drogba will be great to watch. Morinho will be cautious. That is a potential banana skin for Chelsea.

Asenal has a great record in Germany. can see them causing a shock, and you never know with citeh.

The favs are still favs, but they couldn't have asked for worse draws!!

Come on Arsenal - you can take those smug Germans.
Come on City - you can take those cheating Spanish.
Come on United - you're favourites.
Come on Chelsea - you can take the Turks, they ain't much.

Come on the Premier League!

on current form, i would make city slight favorites over barca. not been impressed with barca recently. certainly not the same team as pep's

in feb though they will have a certain mr messi back which could be the difference

Tough for Arsenal. Agree, against the top sides where they can't dominate, it tends to go wrong for them. They create significantly less chances & when they do, Giroud usually misses them. Bayern to be too strong

Barcelona vs City is just mouthwatering. The small, technically gifted passing side against the strength & size of City. Home leg will be crucial for City. I reckon they can expose that weak back line of Barcelona, however, concede at home & it will be tough in the return leg. Messi will be back end of January I reckon. 50/50 for me.

United vs Olympiacos - good draw for United but that's what you get if you win your group. Keep Mitroglu or whatever his name is quite & they are through for me.

Chelsea vs Galatasaray - Old reunions all round, should be good to watch with Mourinho, Drogba & Sneijder etc. Chelsea to edge it.

Expect ITV to have the Barcelona vs City second leg & again the Arsenal vs Bayern home leg.

Man U and Chelsea will be quite happy with their draws. Both should go in as clear favourites for the ties.

City v Barca is fascinating after the battering City just handed out to Arsenal, who are the closest EPL side to Barca (i.e. small, technically efficient, short passing side). It's going to depend on how well City are able to pressure the ball when Xavi and Iniesta are in possession, while preventing Messi finding too much space in the hole.

Arsenal v Bayern is simply the toughest draw Arsenal could have got.I think Bayen's combination of power and technique will simply be too much.

I dont agree ,I think barca or madrid would have been tougher for arsernal.

On the flip side I think Bayern has the toughest possible opponents in arsernal.

Munich are the toughest opponent for any team. Best team in Europe comfortably.
I don't think they will have much problem with Arsenal.
Arsenal beat Munich last year away but only because the game was already all but won for Munich.
In the first leg when both teams were on level pegging, Munich cruised.
City and Barca is just going to be brilliant.

Oh they will ahve a problem with arsenal. I would put money on it.

Favourites yes- but it wont be a rout.

I think Madrid and barca are the type of teams that could do a citeh on them.

I have been called up on arsernal 10 times this season and failed to get them wrong so far. So bring it on Benson

I really like Arsenal Mysti and want them to do well, the thing for me is that Bayern just look so strong.
They only way I can see Arsenal getting a result here is if Bayern are too arrogant and relax (which is possible).
However, if Bayern are on top of their game I can see Arsenal getting schooled. Munich will be pressing them constantly, intercepting their passes, dominating the tempo and just charging foward.
Arsenal may have their moments in the ties, but Munich will have at least a dozen more.

Given Arsenal have struggled against fast paced sides good with possession, I'm not sure where all the confidence in them is coming from?

Beat by United when they weren't in the game in the first half (first time we saw how poor they can be without the ball), struggled versus Southampton when out-possessed by them, and battered by Citeh. Also only drew versus Everton.

They'll still be strong contenders for the title due to their ability to roll over weaker sides (United always did it despite often losing to the closest rivals) but against top sides they've been found wanting. Bayern are the best side in Europe by a healthy margin, strong and fast and excellent in possession, in short a nightmare for Arsenal.

Cant agree toppy.

Arsernal didn't top the group- any game was going to be tough

Bayern have just pulled out the worst possible draw though. I would say the nightmare is with them.

Cant wait.. I will remind you of your comments

Not sure that really explains anything, Mysti.

Why is it a tougher draw for Bayern than Arsenal? Arsenal have drawn the toughest team in the comp. Only argument is that there were 'easier' 2nd place teams to face than Arsenal.

Still is no reason why Arsenal have a hope of progressing given how much they've struggled versus the 'top' sides this season (1-1 with Dortmund, lost to City and United, drew with Everton and squeaked past Southampton whilst being outplayed [can't see BM letting them off the hook so]).

bayern have pulled the toughest 2nd place side possible. or dont you agree?

I didnt once say the draw is harder for bayern to win, just that bayern have pulled the worst possible draw. And that typically people will begin overating bayern and underrating Arsenal.

And no its not about Bayern letting them of the hook- you are just underrating how good arsernal are.

Thats all.

Bayern still favs- But I see a close fixture and I have just backed arsernal for the Cl at 50's

If they get past Bayern they will drop to 4/1

For me Bayern are the complete side and I can't see anyone beating them this year. I know City beat them but they were missing Robben and the group was all sewn up. Look what City did to Arsenal and Bayern have even more firepower. They are similar to City, big and strong, great finishers in the side and counter attack very well, but the key is they're better than City. Arsenal are still a top side don't get me wrong, but Bayern are on a whole new level and will win confortably imo. Not a rout but just confortable.

Excellent draw for Utd, hopefully RVP will be back then and with a couple of new signings in Jan (fingers crossed) then I'm confident we'll get through, only to be knocked out in the 1/4's

You have a shot at getting further on in the comp. the fact that there are 2 titanic last 16's means there are much weaker sides in the the other draws.

mystiroakey wrote:And no its not about Bayern letting them of the hook- you are just underrating how good arsernal are.

No, I'm not. Southampton outplayed them, first EPL side ever at Emirates to have majority possession I believe, and Arsenal were let off the hook by a moment of madness from Boruc. So it is about being 'let off the hook' as I cannot see the best side in Europe, if not the world, who are utterly ruthless, allowing a dominant performance to slip away from them by giving away a silly goal.

Liam wrote:For me Bayern are the complete side and I can't see anyone beating them this year. I know City beat them but they were missing Robben and the group was all sewn up. Look what City did to Arsenal and Bayern have even more firepower. They are similar to City, big and strong, great finishers in the side and counter attack very well, but the key is they're better than City. Arsenal are still a top side don't get me wrong, but Bayern are on a whole new level and will win confortably imo. Not a rout but just confortable.

Exactly.

mysti - your bias towards arsenal is clouding your judgement on this one. Arsenal are a good side, no doubt, however, they are going up against the best side in europe currently, physically stronger & more technically gifted. Arsenal have been found out against the top sides, when they can't dictate & control the middle of the park. Giroud gets isolated & everything breaks down.

Bayern have not pulled out the worse draw at all. Arsenal are a good side but not as good as some people were getting carried away with. The difference is Arsenal are a 'work in progress' side, needing further investment next summer, whereas Bayern are already developed & proven.

Liam wrote:For me Bayern are the complete side and I can't see anyone beating them this year. I know City beat them but they were missing Robben and the group was all sewn up. Look what City did to Arsenal and Bayern have even more firepower. They are similar to City, big and strong, great finishers in the side and counter attack very well, but the key is they're better than City. Arsenal are still a top side don't get me wrong, but Bayern are on a whole new level and will win confortably imo. Not a rout but just confortable.

Excellent draw for Utd, hopefully RVP will be back then and with a couple of new signings in Jan (fingers crossed) then I'm confident we'll get through, only to be knocked out in the 1/4's

think if you asked most fans at the start of the season i think we all would have taken quarter finals, been off the pace in europe for a few seasons and moyes first proper season in europe.

Nah its not John

I have heard all of it before from you lot pre season about arsernal. I also heard it from you and many others talk about how bad the PL was because of one year.   

YOu will again find out how good they are.

I am not an arsernal fan

I was hoping for 4th place and CL QFs.

4th might be a pipe-dream now but at least QFs will lend some positivity to Moyes' first season.

TopHat24/7 wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:And no its not about Bayern letting them of the hook- you are just underrating how good arsernal are.

No, I'm not.  Southampton outplayed them, first EPL side ever at Emirates to have majority possession I believe, and Arsenal were let off the hook by a moment of madness from Boruc.  So it is about being 'let off the hook' as I cannot see the best side in Europe, if not the world, who are utterly ruthless, allowing a dominant performance to slip away from them by giving away a silly goal.

nonsense...

You think a team is bad because of one game. that is only showing how good arsenal is!!(only game to concede possession to the opposition!!!)

Pick a better stat- not one that benefits arsernal

Oh dear

/headsgone

mystiroakey wrote:Nah its not John

I have heard all of it before from you lot pre season about arsernal. I also heard it from you and many others talk about how bad the PL was because of one year.   

YOu will again find out how good they are.

I am not an arsernal fan

Why weren't they this good against United?
Why weren't they this good against City?
Why weren't they this good against Everton?
Why did they need a dodgy keeper to save their bacon v Southampton?

Why do you seem to think all these teams/results are irrelevant when it's Bayern coming up, just because they've looked good rolling over the weak??

mystiroakey wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:And no its not about Bayern letting them of the hook- you are just underrating how good arsernal are.

No, I'm not.  Southampton outplayed them, first EPL side ever at Emirates to have majority possession I believe, and Arsenal were let off the hook by a moment of madness from Boruc.  So it is about being 'let off the hook' as I cannot see the best side in Europe, if not the world, who are utterly ruthless, allowing a dominant performance to slip away from them by giving away a silly goal.

nonsense...

You think a team is bad because of one game.

Oh dear

/headsgone

Quote me where I said one game.......?

Also, quote me where I said they were a 'bad team' because of it.....? (Hint: I said they're still a good shout for the title)

good rolling over the weak. oh my days.

they outplayed dortmound, they outplayed napoli , outplayed liverpool.

Are you actually completely biased or something?

TopHat24/7 wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:And no its not about Bayern letting them of the hook- you are just underrating how good arsernal are.

No, I'm not.  Southampton outplayed them, first EPL side ever at Emirates to have majority possession I believe, and Arsenal were let off the hook by a moment of madness from Boruc.  So it is about being 'let off the hook' as I cannot see the best side in Europe, if not the world, who are utterly ruthless, allowing a dominant performance to slip away from them by giving away a silly goal.

nonsense...

You think a team is bad because of one game.

Oh dear

/headsgone

Quote me where I said one game.......?

Also, quote me where I said they were a 'bad team' because of it.....? (Hint: I said they're still a good shout for the title)

any team that is good for the title is good for the CL.

end of story- You overrate German teams, you underrate PL teams.

I have heard you do it before.. You have been banging the PL is week drum for years- Its foolish and its nonsense.

mystiroakey wrote:good rolling over the weak. oh my days.

they outplayed dortmound, they outplayed napoli , outplayed liverpool.

Are you actually completely biased or something?

They got beat by Dortmund also, comfortably.

And Napoli and Liverpool are a) nothing to shout about; and b) not ahead of a City or a Bayern.

TopHat24/7 wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:good rolling over the weak. oh my days.

they outplayed dortmound, they outplayed napoli , outplayed liverpool.

Are you actually completely biased or something?

They got beat by Dortmund also, comfortably.

And Napoli and Liverpool are a) nothing to shout about; and b) not ahead of a City or a Bayern.

they comfortably outplayed Dortmund at home- just got beat to clinical finishing by one goal. If you think that is comfortably beaten then i think its time you rewatched the game and chilled out for a bit. The game in dortmound was a complete roll reversal. They outplayed arsernal but arsernal nicked it. Neither were comfortable wins!!

If you want to argue, argue facts

mystiroakey wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:And no its not about Bayern letting them of the hook- you are just underrating how good arsernal are.

No, I'm not.  Southampton outplayed them, first EPL side ever at Emirates to have majority possession I believe, and Arsenal were let off the hook by a moment of madness from Boruc.  So it is about being 'let off the hook' as I cannot see the best side in Europe, if not the world, who are utterly ruthless, allowing a dominant performance to slip away from them by giving away a silly goal.

nonsense...

You think a team is bad because of one game.

Oh dear

/headsgone

Quote me where I said one game.......?

Also, quote me where I said they were a 'bad team' because of it.....? (Hint: I said they're still a good shout for the title)

any team that is good for the title is good for the CL.

end of story- You overrate German teams, you underrate PL teams.

I have heard you do it before.. You have been banging the PL is week drum for years- Its foolish and its nonsense.

Prove it, quote me.

You can't because that's not what I've been saying.

Your closet Gooner crush is clouding your judgement, as pointed out by others, and you're failing to back up anything you say. Just meaningless hyperbole and hot-air rhetoric.

Arsenal and City are done.

Chelsea could of had an easier tie.

United got the best possible tie.

Lets leave it till the game Toppy!

You were banging on about this pre season about arsernal, you(or others) were banging on about it before napoli, before dortmound.

You(or others) are constantly being shown up. and you are odds on to again.,

By the way the difference between you and me is that i have admitted bayern are the better team and are favs, just that i can see a close set of games.

You are spouting the hyperbole lad.. as you allways seem to. You have a love affair with non PL teams. I get it, many on here have- They have been shown up again though. One season doesn't alter class or history.

mystiroakey wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:good rolling over the weak. oh my days.

they outplayed dortmound, they outplayed napoli , outplayed liverpool.

Are you actually completely biased or something?

They got beat by Dortmund also, comfortably.

And Napoli and Liverpool are a) nothing to shout about; and b) not ahead of a City or a Bayern.

they comfortably outplayed Dortmund at home- just got beat to clinical finishing by one goal. If you think that is comfortably beaten then i think its time you rewatched the game and chilled out for a bit. The game in dortmound was a complete roll reversal. They outplayed arsernal but arsernal nicked it. Neither were comfortable wins!!

If you want to argue, argue facts

Dortmund, the side that are 12 points off the pace and 5 points behind the side United beat 9-1 on aggregate and you denounced as rubbish??

mystiroakey wrote:Lets leave it till the game Toppy!

You were banging on about this pre season about arsernal, you(or others) were banging on about it before napoli, before dortmound.

You(or others) are constantly being shown up. and you are odds on to again.,

By the way the difference between you and me is that i have admitted bayern are the better team and are favs, just that i can see a close set of games.

You are spouting the hyperbole lad.. as you allways seem to. You have a love affair with non PL teams. I get it, many on here have- They have been shown up again though. One season doesn't alter class or history.

Re the non-EPL teams, I think you may be confusing me with CS, from memory. Pre-season I may have dug into Arsenal, but that was pre-Ozil too and he is/was a game-changer. Arsenal haven't shown anyone up for 7 seasons, though its nice to see them finally putting something together (albeit short a world class striker still).

As I've said, Arsenal have an excellent shout the the EPL title as they looked to be doing like United of old, lose to big sides/fellow contenders but trounce everyone else. That, however, is not helpful when it comes to the CL. Look at how United got twice embarrassed by Barca in the final.

Chelsea constantly embarrass Barca in the CL

what is your point again?