Aviva Premiership - Round 2 Preview

Friday 13th September 2013

Harlequins v Northampton 19:45

Round 2 starts with a real humdinger of a match as last years losing finallists travel to the previous year's champions. BT have chosen to make this game free-to-air via Freeview, BT TV, Sky and Virgin and plenty will turn in to watch what will hopefully be a great clash. Last week both sides won, but by all accounts Saints put on the better display. Their first half demolition of Exeter must have been impressive to watch. Quins on the other hand were a little disappointing - but the won. The likes of Corbisiero, Hartley and North for Saints, Robshaw, Care and Brown for Quins will garner much of the media attention. however it is the smaller contests that will fascinate me. PDJ after his unhappy time at Franklins Gardens will be eager to play and make his mark. Will we see both Dickson's on the field at the same time?
Last season Saints struggled against the other top 4 teams - there only win coming in the play-off when they stormed all over Sarries. Do they really believe they can win this game? If Fotuali'i (or Dickson) can guide Myler through this, Saints shoudl have too much for Quins even away from home. However if Quins can start well the we will see just how fragile the Northampton confidence is.

Harlequins Team:
TBC

Saints Team:
15 Ben FODEN, 14 Ken PISI, 13 James WILSON, 12 Luther BURRELL, 11 George NORTH, 10 Stephen MYLER, 9 Kahn FOTUALI’I
1 Alex CORBISIERO, 2 Dylan HARTLEY (capt), 3 Tom MERCEY, 4 Courtney LAWES, 5 Christian DAY, 6 Tom WOOD, 7 Calum CLARK, 8 Samu MANOA

Replacements
16 Mike HAYWOOD, 17 Alex WALLER, 18 Gareth DENMAN, 19 Sam DICKINSON, 20 Phil DOWSON, 21 Lee DICKSON, 22 George PISI, 23 Jamie ELLIOTT



Sale v Newcastle 20:00

Contrasting fortunes last week for two of the team favoured to be amongst the few fighting of relegation. Sale travelled to Gloucester and in front of a stunned Kingsholm completely outplayed a fancied Gloucester team. Falcons however hosted Bath on a wet and windy night, picked a side for an armwrestle and proceeded to be crushed by the Bath juggernaut of a pack. Those were the conditions that Falcons would have hoped to make the most of, but they looked underpowered and, sad to say, devoid of any attacking intent. This week it is their turn to travel on a Friday night. The Falcons pack have to raise their game, and someone has to control things at 9 or 10. Mike Blair was poor last week but he can play much better. Phil Godman however just is not good enough.
So long as Sale do not make changes at 10, I would expect them to win by a decent margin. The key for Falcons is to be competitive - and to score.




Saturday 14th September 2013

Exeter v London Wasps 15:00

Rob Baxter will have been really disappointed by last weeks display - especially in the first half when he stated that his side "looked like they were just going through the motions". We can expect training this week to be tough. Wasps struggled at scrum time against Quins and with injuries to key players in the backs, rarely worked the ball to their wingers with anything like the panache we saw last season. Joe Simpson is not the first scrum half, nor will he be the last, to struggle at the base of a scrum that is being shoved or wheeled almost at will. He really needs to find form, and fast though if he is to help Wasps start to win a few matches.
Whichever side loses this game will be anchored at the foot of the table. I suspect that will be Wasps.



Worcester v London Irish 15:00

Another match up between two teams who both lost last weekend. There is no real consolation in defeat, but Worcester perhaps will have taken more confidence from their match. They looked solid and direct (if a little lacking in inspiration) and will as usual be a hard side to beat. However a lack of any real attacking game and flaky goalkicking from Mieres always allows opposition to be in with a shout.
London Irish showed they can score tries - yet at the same time they looked seriously underpowered and at times fragile against Saracens. Dean Ryan and his Worcester team will have targeted this early fixture. They need a win and defeat to potential relegation rivals would put a huge dent in their season. For this reason I feel that a physical Worcester side will be too strong for a game and talented London Irish.



Bath v Leicester 15:15

The second of this weekends televised fixtures pits two clubs celebrating a centenary of inter club fixtures. It has been a while since the two were rivals at the top of the table, but Bath do look as if finally they are getting their recruitment right. In horrid conditions we saw little of thei backs at Kingston Park, but we did see just how strong the Bath pack will be. Again you feel that this is a battle that will be won up front, and having done a real number on Mulipola at the end of the season, David Wilson will be looking for more of the same.
Leicester will hope to welcome back England trio YoungsB, flood and Manu - which would strengthen the backs immeasurably and the absence of Francois Louw will help the Tigers cause. however I find it hard to look past a home win.



Sunday 15th September 2013

Saracens v Gloucester 14:00

The weekend's final fixture will again be live on BT Sport. Saracens, boasting ever impressive strength in depth, will be seeking another TBP win to finish the weekend firmly at the head of the table. A Gloucester side, coming off the back of a disappointing and disjointed effot, have the talent to move the ball at real pace and threaten the famed Saracens defence. Sarries however will resort to their power game and look to crush the visitors. Potentially an interesting match up between the main contenders for the England 12 shirt, both Barritt and Twelvetrees will be looking for improved performances




Good luck everyone, but not so much to Bath (sorry)

Just to formalise my predictions, and these may change once teams are announced.

Quins 1pt Saints 4pts
Sale 4pts Falcons 0pts
Exeter 4pts Wasps 0pts
Worcester 4pts LI 1pt
Bath 4pts Leicester 1pt
Saracens 5pts Gloucester 0pts

I hope and pray that you are right, LT

I don't, come on you Tigers! Sadly I think his predictions are rather good.

Good job LT.

My picks:
Saints
Sale
Exeter
Wuss
Bath
Gloucester

COYF!!!

I'll be very happy with a 1 point win! Think we will be much better this week though, can't wait

You will need to be CJ. The Saints looked good against the Chiefs and another week to bed in their new signings will only help them.

Worryingly the same can be said for Bath. Got to hope that some of the Tigers backs are fit again so that we can have some go forward in the backs. Don't fancy the Lamb/Bowden combo with all those big Bath forwards running off the shoulder of Ford.

I barely noticed Bowden on Sunday.

One thing I did notice was that a lot of the time we were playing openside (Thompstone) and blindside (Goneva) wings when in possession rather than a traditional left and right.

Should Flood and Manu be fit to return, the defence would be more robust - however I would still be worried at the prospect of big Bath forwards running at Toby Flood. He is looking ever more fragile. Brave but fragile.

If only Ford had stayed!

Quins 1pt Saints 4pts
Sale 4pts Falcons 0pts
Exeter 4pts Wasps 1pts
Worcester 1pt LI 4pts
Bath 4pts Leicester 1pt
Saracens 5pts Gloucester 0pts

Obviously I'm biased but if the weather stays OK I can see Irish getting some parity up front and there backline scoring some tries at Sixways. Could also do with Mieres having another stinker off the tee

We also do well against Saints, the only bit i worry about is the 2nd row, and Collier/PDJ vs Corbs. Think Monye, Williams and Brown and Lowe can shut out North and Care can outplay Kahn or Dickson

Tigers/Sarries/Quins all do well against Saints in recent years.

This however is an improved Saints team and Quins need to improve by a large amount from last week. They can certainly win, but I feel that if both teams play well, then Saints are better.

You look at the Quins pack with less fear this season. Guest has never delivered on his potential, Easter once a giant presence at 8 looks tired, Maurie looks past his best and whilst Wallace and Robshaw still look good they aren't big ball carriers and seemingly struggle to play together. Now if they'd signed Vunipola instead of Sarries...

I hope Flood is back and Williams is maintained on the bench. Allen at 12 and Manu at 13 is good in terms of defence.

I like Goneva coming off the shoulder of the 10 and Thompstone being more able to cover the cross field kicks. Makes sense defensively.

Nervous for this week, it's a massive game for us and Worcester.  Am glad it's not on Friday night as I can't remember the last time we won a Friday night game.  I fancy us to score some tries and it be a happy Saturday night.

I see the games going like this

Saints to win, but Quins get a losing bonus point.
Sale to win, Falcons get a losing bonus point.
Chiefs to win, Wasps get a losing bonus point.
Bath to win, Tigers get a losing bonus point.
Saracens to win with a try bonus point, Gloucester to get nothing.

Ozzy,

I too am nervous about saturday, and hope for Wuss to come through. I think it will be a tense game as both teams are aware of the importance. Sadly (for me) I think you may be right. I think some of the pundits have too rosey a picture of where the Warriors are. They looked OK in the second half against Tigers (but I suspect only after Tigers had gone to sleep. I suspect Cockers would have given his team a rollicking for not putting us to the sword). Young Matevesi will create a try with a flash of genius in most games, but I suspect we will be conceding a few against you guys. We will have Murray to come back in and I hope DR plays Hodgeson, because we look far more fluid when he plays. Also I hope he picks Abbott over Betty. Last week's armless tackles are sadly the norm, not the exception.

Good luck saturday.

ChequeredJersey wrote:We also do well against Saints, the only bit i worry about is the 2nd row, and Collier/PDJ vs Corbs. Think Monye, Williams and Brown and Lowe can shut out North and Care can outplay Kahn or Dickson

Erm wasn't Saints last win against us due to them having a much bigger pack that demolished us? I struggle to see how this probably won't happen again. Unless Saints play very badly and we play out of our skins.

Corbs, Hartley, Samoa and Lawes are all in my opinion better then our options.

Thought it was because Clegg missed his kicks, Easter got sin-binned and Saints were far more clinical and defending really well. When was the last time Saints DIDN'T have a much more powerful pack than us?

Lots of people writing off Tigers at the Rec. Bath look strong up front? So what, so are Tigers, who also potentially have some key players returning to fitness. Falcons were well below par last Friday, Bath's win there shouldn't be considered a benchmark for their season to come.

Croft out for the season

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/24050298

Never write off the Tigers

Huge game for Irish and Worcester so early on. We have a good away record at Sixways but Wuss are going to be really fired up for their first home game under Ryan.

Who will that be at 6 for Tigers then?

ChequeredJersey wrote:Who will that be at 6 for Tigers then?

Steve Mafi

Doesn't weaken them much

Jimpy wrote:Lots of people writing off Tigers at the Rec. Bath look strong up front? So what, so are Tigers, who also potentially have some key players returning to fitness. Falcons were well below par last Friday, Bath's win there shouldn't be considered a benchmark for their season to come.

My benchmark is the way the demolished us up front at the end of last season.

ChequeredJersey wrote:Doesn't weaken them much

no, but a real shame for poor Croft. Makes Lancaster's decisions easier though.

Haskell up to EPS, do we think? Experiment with Robshaw at 6 for part of an AI match?

ChequeredJersey wrote:Haskell up to EPS, do we think? Experiment with Robshaw at 6 for part of an AI match?

Haskell is injured, no?

I have put a thread ion the Int section for us to discuss this - slightly controversial title though.

Mafi had a knock to his knee which meant he was unavailable on Saturday. We badly need him fit for Bath or It's either Gibson or Waldrom at 6.

That's really bad news for Croft he looked really hungry for work on Sunday and got through a lot of work.

LondonTiger wrote:

Jimpy wrote:Lots of people writing off Tigers at the Rec. Bath look strong up front? So what, so are Tigers, who also potentially have some key players returning to fitness. Falcons were well below par last Friday, Bath's win there shouldn't be considered a benchmark for their season to come.

My benchmark is the way the demolished us up front at the end of last season.

i'd forgotten what a happy, cheery and optimistic supporter you are...

Well that was the season before last, when you were someone else I believe, and when some of it was a weird obsession with not tempting fate.

In ths case, we have to accept that the Bath Pack dominated us at the end of last season when Mulipola especially (but also Cole) struggled. We are still without Ayerza and Mulipola seemed to be struggling a little on Sunday. Add in the recruits and Bath look stronger (but are missing Louw, who is their one world class player). To counter that we have Deacon back - and he is huge in the tight. Even so we could be struggling come scrum time. We do not see that often, but when it does happen we usually struggle.

Add in to the mix that latest news on Flood, Youngs and Manu ios that they will not be fit - well some pessimism is not that inappropriate.

We have never had a good scrum with Mafi and Parling in the second row, remember Ravenhill? Deacon there does help an awful lot but I do fear that Mulipola and Youngs are going to take some time to adapt. They are not long term front row specialists they are recent converts compared to the experience Bath have. Still Tigers improved over the course of the game and we need to hope that has carried on into training as we need more improvement there and in the lineout.

No Flood/B Youngs & Manu this weekend but Mafi back ,as stated by Cockers on Rugby Hour on Radio Leicester

We're boned.

really looking forward to friday nights game.. saints back line looks really exciting still question marks over myler at 10, wonder if fortuali will start?

quins challenge will be upfront this will be their first real test at scrum time. also they looked short of ideas in midfield, jth was running into groups of defenders on saturday, they need to find other ways of getting over the gain line.

Roll on the weekend!

Quite surprised that Bath are being labelled as favourites against Leicester. Yes the pack looked good against Newcastle, but Leicester haven't put out a weak pack in the last 15 years, so I don't think there will be too much of an advantage there. Maybe Bath can sneak it, but I don't think Leicester are 'boned'!

Certainly not going to write off Gloucester. They always raise their game significantly against us.

Their backs will like the Allianz Park pitch. Plus they have a very good backrow.

Of course Sarries' trump card are the Vunipola bros. Expect to see more of the power game again. Wonder if Jamie George can add to his try heroics too.

Quins-Saints match looks interesting. Quins have not yet shown they have got last season's blues out of their system.

Bath vs Leicester - is obviously another interesting one. Will Bath show they are indeed a title contender I wonder.

In the other three - Exeter-Wasps, Sale-Newcastle,Worcester-London Irish. I expect home wins.

Bathman, Tigers are missing Hawkins, Kitchener, Croft, Ben Youngs. Flood. Manu, Tait, Benjamin, Hamilton, Camacho and the biggest loss of all Ayerza. Mulipola struggled vs Wilson last year and that could be an issue with the scrums now being even more relient on technique.

Add to that our backline will feature a Lamb/Bowden combo in the centres which doesn't inspire confidence in defence. No Manu or Smith is a huge blow as Allen is now out of position.

Come on the away upset.

Formerly known as sam surely it's a bit early for excuses?

I don't know why you have an obsession with absentees. You should have faith in your squad. Tigers have a decent one.

I can't remember the last time any team beat what could be called a 1st choice Tigers side in your eyes!

Missing 3 Lions & 6 other Internationals is going to weaken most teams.

beshocked wrote:Formerly known as sam surely it's a bit early for excuses?

I don't know why you have an obsession with absentees. You should have faith in your squad. Tigers have a decent one.

I can't remember the last time any team beat what could be called a 1st choice Tigers side in your eyes!

Jeez B.

We are stating we believe that Bath will win and why that will be. It is not an excuse, just why we believe it will be ahrd for us to win. If we lose, then Bath will have done well, if we win then I will be surprised and very happy. Absolutely no need for you to be so belligerent.

NORTHAMPTON SAINTS TEAM TO PLAY HARLEQUINS
Aviva Premiership Rugby Round 2
Twickenham Stoop
Friday, September 13th, 2013
Kick off 7:45pm
15 Ben FODEN
14 Ken PISI
13 James WILSON
12 Luther BURRELL
11 George NORTH
10 Stephen MYLER
9 Kahn FOTUALI’I
1 Alex CORBISIERO
2 Dylan HARTLEY (capt)
3 Tom MERCEY
4 Courtney LAWES
5 Christian DAY
6 Tom WOOD
7 Calum CLARK
8 Samu MANOA

Replacements
16 Mike HAYWOOD
17 Alex WALLER
18 Gareth DENMAN
19 Sam DICKINSON
20 Phil DOWSON
21 Lee DICKSON
22 George PISI
23 Jamie ELLIOTT

Who are the 6 internationals you refer to? I wouldn't say Hawkins,Kitchener and Hamilton are.

Tait is borderline - he's a former international.

I count 3 - Ayerza,Camacho and Flood. Only 1 is an injury.

Apologies Londontiger. It's just i've heard the injuries/call ups/IWs excuses so many times. Other teams do have absentees too.

Who we are missing is irrelevant, we still have a strong team. I just feel that Bath will be stronger up front, and we will be physically weak in the midfield.

As to the internationals - well he never said 6 current internationals were injured, just 6 internationals were missing. Tait and Hamilton are both players who have been capped (though I am struggling to think of a 6th)

Newcastle Falcons;

Tait Cato Barnes Powell Catterick Godman Blair Montanella Thompson Tomaszczyk McKenzie MacLeod Barrow Welch (c) Hogg

Vickers, Brookes, S. Wilson, del Fava, M. Wilson, Fury, Clegg, Fitzpatrick

Harlequins team

15. Mike Brown
14. Tom Williams
13. George Lowe
12. Tom Casson
11. Ugo Monye
10. Nick Evans
9. Danny Care

1. Joe Marler
2. Joe Gray
3. Paul Doran Jones
4. George Merrick
5. George Robson
6. Maurie Fa'asavalu
7. Chris Robshaw (C)
8. Nick Easter

Replacements
16. Rob Buchanan
17. Mark Lambert
18. Will Collier
19. Tom Guest
20. Luke Wallace
21. Karl Dickson
22. Ben Botica
23. Sam Smith

and Sharks team:

Team Tom Arscott, Phil Mackenzie, Mark Cueto, Andy Forsyth, Tom Brady, Nick Macleod, Dwayne Peel. Eifion Lewis Roberts, Marc Jones, Henry Thomas, Johnathan Mills, Michael Paterson, Dan Braid Captain, David Seymour, James Gaskell

Replacements Tommy Taylor, Ross Harrison, Vadim Cobilas, Kirill Kulemin, Josh Beaumont, Will Cliff, Joe Ford, Rob Miller

Danny cipriani - injured or just not wanted?

Got embarrassed by Joel Hodgson/Rory Clegg in midweek.