How Can Floyd Be Beaten??

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There was a lot of talk before this fight about blue prints to beat Floyd. Oscar claiming he has the blue print and Floyd dismissed him by saying 'How do you have the blue print when I beat you'.

If there is a blue print, and certainly some have gotten to Floyd in the past, Canelo Alverez was not the technician who could roll open the drawing and follow the plan. A little unfair to say I suppose but he just didn't have the basic attributes or let's face it the experience normally built up over 41 fights.


Let's take a look at the rare occasions were Floyd struggled at times in fights in the past and what caused the problems:

Work rate: if Floyd slips into his rhythm it's like a watching a conductor controlling the greatest orchestra in the world at the end of a baton. If a fighter can't break Mayweathers rhythm his chances are less than zero. Castillo in their first fight set a very good pace as did Oscar for as long as he could. These were two of the best fighters Mayweather faced. Alverez could not set the kind of pace needed to shake Floyd up, he gave Floyd time to sit back and do his thing.


Movement: Alverez looked like he had lead in his feet and his upper body and head movements were very static. As a target he was easy to hit and he wasn't too clever when it came to defending with the gloves and elbows. Mayweather manoeuvred him around whether he fought off the back foot or like he did around the middle of the fight on the front foot. Alverez's feet looked like they were made of clay. The fighter to beat Floyd needs excellent movement.

Punching: Floyd's punching was accurate and crisp but more than anything it is fast with almost limitless variety so it's not easy to guess what's coming next. When the fight is moving at a comfortable pace Floyd has time to pick his punches especially his counters which are off the scale in quality. If an opponent isn't throwing a lot of leather at Floyd he needs to match him in punching skills and speed, Canelo could not match Mayweathers punching ability and there's few in history at the weight that could. Canelo's punches were telegraphed, no disguise, and he did not throw anywhere near enough he unsettle Floyd.



Alverez lacked the basic skill set to follow Oscar's blue print and he has been shown up as being a bit of a manufactured fighter in my view. Miguel Cotto was always a highly skilled fighter, who lacked fighting intelligence, so it is no surprise to me that as a proven operator he did much better against Floyd than Canelo. Cotto prior to the Margarito debacle would have put on a good show against Floyd, excellent footwork, good punching skills and could churn out the punches. Unfortunately that fight and several others did not happen. Floyd would have beaten Cotto at any time but it would have been a competitive fight unlike last nights money ballon that was hyped up on a foundation of fiction.


Ricky Hatton did better than Canelo.

One of my friends is a former kung fu world champ. He has an interesting take on Floyd.

He said you can study Floyd all you like, but the key to Floyds success he believes is in Floyd having immense boxing "intelligence" and in applying that intelligence, he will react differently and appropriately to each challenge in front of him in the here and now of the fight. This is not about endless studying a boxer.

So if a boxer watches all these past performances and for example thinks, aha, in the the De la Hoya fight he did this, or that and some success was gained they are forgetting two things.

1. Can they execute as well in the same way - something they will never ultimately know till on the night.

2. Floyd has beaten everyone, so even apparently finding "a definitive way" from a fight in the past is forgetting that Floyd overcame it.  E.G. was it De la Hoya for example who failed to press what was an advantage in the earlier rounds, or was it simply that Floyd adapted, learn't in the fight how to deal with it, and took over!

The key word is adapt. My mate said it's a bit a game where you have lightening fast software programmed to adapt to the opponent's threat at that moment in the fight. Floyd "learns" about his opponent during the fight quicker than they can learn about him. Also, if a way is found to seemingly gain an advantage, a fighter would need several other tactics to employ as ( certainly on evidence to date ) Floyd would adapt and nullify the threat.

I think only a boxer who can improvise with the Floyd in front of him, outthink him and NOT be relying on a pre arranged strategy will stand a chance of pushing it tot the wire and winning.

Ray Robinson is dead though Mate..

But interesting thoughts..

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Ray Robinson is dead though Mate..

But interesting thoughts..

Ha ha...thats what my mate said!

I can see that beating Floyd is not about a quicker jab, slightly different angle to a left hook or any one single thing....too superficial!

Something else that cam up in conversation was the battle of the minds being of prime importance. He said that regardless of audience entertainment, fighters who are at this level certainly are fighting every second of every round whether throwing punches, or jabbing or not. When they are not throwing, the battle is mentally to break each other and watching Floyds concentration and what he does when not actually physically engaging is actually equally as fascinating .....I guess people with boxing experience will all relate to this to some degree.

To beat Floyd you have to get over the shock of who you are fighting..

Must be a tremendous intimidation fighting a top 5 atg........

Agreed Trussman. This is an additional factor that is not often looked at....and not one that pre fight any boxer would want to admit to...

Only a fellow great has a shot at Mayweather - good fighters can't get near him in the form he's in. There isn't one in his vicinity right now and so it will be interesting to see where he goes next.

I think he needs a gimmick and fighting in the UK would be an idea (it would be a huge event over here). I heard Hopkins touting himself after the fight at middleweight! Let's just hope Oscar doesn't chance his arm once he's dried out.

armchairwarrior wrote:Agreed Trussman. This is an additional factor that is not often looked at....and not one that pre fight any boxer would want to admit to...

i think the only fear about facing mayweather is the fear of losing.
you won't be embarrassed as you'll join a long line of hall of fame boxers he has defeated. and you'll pick up an almighty big cheque and huge exposure for your troubles.

he's that good, a loss to him doesn't really mean anything. in fact a good showing against him could improve your career.

the fear of facing wilder or a monster puncher at each weight is he could leave you face down on the canvas, out cold while half a dozen people stand around you trying to stop you from swallowing your tongue or going into convolutions. the KO punch is the only thing the majority remember and you're scarred with that forever.

i'd rather pick up the big cheque.

Interesting comments armchair. Having never boxed but played other sports at a competitive level, i'd say more is in the head than many acknowledge.

Its no accident that sports psychologists are omnipresent, and you hear guys talking about being 'in the moment' when you know they probably didnt come up with that phrase themselves.

With regards to mayweather adapting in the ring, i agree to an extent. I think he has a basic style of fighting that's a difficult riddle to solve, and he makes adjustments to his fight plan before he enters the ring and makes subtle modifications to it, when he's adjusted to the rythm and style of his opponent. I agree its not as simple as executing a blueprint, but i think there are certain things you have to try and do.

For example, standing off in a boxing skills contest for alvarez for the first half of the fight was never likely to reap dividends!

hazharrison wrote:Only a fellow great has a shot at Mayweather - good fighters can't get near him in the form he's in. There isn't one in his vicinity right now and so it will be interesting to see where he goes next.

I think he needs a gimmick and fighting in the UK would be an idea (it would be a huge event over here). I heard Hopkins touting himself after the fight at middleweight! Let's just hope Oscar doesn't chance his arm once he's dried out.

Funny, I was thinking that very same thing. Can see Oscar making a fool of himself by saying that he's coming back for one last fight against Floyd as "he's got the blueprint" and then once the laughter has died down, I will be reeling in horror as some idiot agrees to allow him to fight and Floyd says, "$75 million? Why thank you very much"

Thought Canelo was very poor at the weekend. Complete lack of head movement (surely one of the basic ingredients when fighting a guy of Mayweather's calibre) Also, rather annoyed that he completely ignored my sensible gameplan about forcing Floyd to the ropes, and using his weigh advantage to rough him up and work away at the body. Cotto did it to a degree yet for some reason kept backing off an allowing Floyd room to get back to the centre of the ring. Alvarez seemed a littl star struck at times and forgot he was there to try and win.

Gonoo take a a great jab, great footwork and great inside fighter and guy who isn't afraid to take a punch to stand any chance against Floyd............step forward Bradley Pryce!

DAVE667 wrote:

hazharrison wrote:Only a fellow great has a shot at Mayweather - good fighters can't get near him in the form he's in. There isn't one in his vicinity right now and so it will be interesting to see where he goes next.

I think he needs a gimmick and fighting in the UK would be an idea (it would be a huge event over here). I heard Hopkins touting himself after the fight at middleweight! Let's just hope Oscar doesn't chance his arm once he's dried out.

Funny, I was thinking that very same thing. Can see Oscar making a fool of himself by saying that he's coming back for one last fight against Floyd as "he's got the blueprint" and then once the laughter has died down, I will be reeling in horror as some idiot agrees to allow him to fight and Floyd says, "$75 million? Why thank you very much"

Thought Canelo was very poor at the weekend. Complete lack of head movement (surely one of the basic ingredients when fighting a guy of Mayweather's calibre) Also, rather annoyed that he completely ignored my sensible gameplan about forcing Floyd to the ropes, and using his weigh advantage to rough him up and work away at the body. Cotto did it to a degree yet for some reason kept backing off an allowing Floyd room to get back to the centre of the ring. Alvarez seemed a littl star struck at times and forgot he was there to try and win.

Gonoo take a a great jab, great footwork and great inside fighter and guy who isn't afraid to take a punch to stand any chance against Floyd............step forward Bradley Pryce!

It's coming, this Oscar comeback, I'm convinced of it. They bandied about little snippets in the Alvarez build-up about how much they dislike one another -- testing the water perhaps?

Floyd's in an unenviable position. He's far too good for the likes of Khan, Garcia, Alvarez, Alexander etc. but he has a network that need to sell PPVs. He'll either need a world tour-type concept, a buddy-gone-wrong fight with Broner or something even more bazarre, such as a Hopkins fight at middleweight, to generate the buzz he needs (Hopkins was actually angling for that with Chris Mannix of Sports Illustrated after the fight -- madness).

hazharrison wrote:

DAVE667 wrote:

hazharrison wrote:Only a fellow great has a shot at Mayweather - good fighters can't get near him in the form he's in. There isn't one in his vicinity right now and so it will be interesting to see where he goes next.

I think he needs a gimmick and fighting in the UK would be an idea (it would be a huge event over here). I heard Hopkins touting himself after the fight at middleweight! Let's just hope Oscar doesn't chance his arm once he's dried out.

Funny, I was thinking that very same thing. Can see Oscar making a fool of himself by saying that he's coming back for one last fight against Floyd as "he's got the blueprint" and then once the laughter has died down, I will be reeling in horror as some idiot agrees to allow him to fight and Floyd says, "$75 million? Why thank you very much"

Thought Canelo was very poor at the weekend. Complete lack of head movement (surely one of the basic ingredients when fighting a guy of Mayweather's calibre) Also, rather annoyed that he completely ignored my sensible gameplan about forcing Floyd to the ropes, and using his weigh advantage to rough him up and work away at the body. Cotto did it to a degree yet for some reason kept backing off an allowing Floyd room to get back to the centre of the ring. Alvarez seemed a littl star struck at times and forgot he was there to try and win.

Gonoo take a a great jab, great footwork and great inside fighter and guy who isn't afraid to take a punch to stand any chance against Floyd............step forward Bradley Pryce!

It's coming, this Oscar comeback, I'm convinced of it. They bandied about little snippets in the Alvarez build-up about how much they dislike one another -- testing the water perhaps?

Floyd's in an unenviable position. He's far too good for the likes of Khan, Garcia, Alvarez, Alexander etc. but he has a network that need to sell PPVs. He'll either need a world tour-type concept, a buddy-gone-wrong fight with Broner or something even more bazarre, such as a Hopkins fight at middleweight, to generate the buzz he needs (Hopkins was actually angling for that with Chris Mannix of Sports Illustrated after the fight -- madness).

He's gonna give a Balboa-esque heartfelt plea about being allowed to do what's right and some dewy-eyed frigwit will be sufficiently moved to completely ignore the drink and drug issues he's admitted to and grant him a licence...well, they gave Hatton a licence to fight again so why the hell not?

Won't get a licence..

I can see it now. He'll be there, in front of a 24/7 camera, eyebrows sloped downwards in that fake earnest look he does and then he says, in that falsetto voice: "This will be the night of the jab. I have the blueprint".

Then I vomit.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Won't get a licence..

Settle down, it's a bit of tongue in cheek nonsense but I'm sure the thought is running amok in Oscar's head right now.

Nobody in boxing can beat Floyd right now. Khan is banging on about him, and fair enouh, but no way in hell does he beat Floyd, despite his advantages. Stick Thurman in with him after hehas had a couple more breakout wins. Martinez at 154 if he has anything left. Maybe Garcia (which is what it looks like) if he can get a decent win at 147. None of them beat him though

Read an article this morning where Virgil Hunter says Khan needs to start taking training seriously if he's to compete effectively with the likes of Mayweather. I said a while back that Khan has one eye out of the door and is too busy piddling about on stuff like "Celebrity Juice". Seems even his own trainer has a similar opinion but doesn't feel strongly enough about it to kiss the money goodbye

and why should he..someone has to train him and we all have to make a living.

Wasn't he caught "skyping" himself silly in the Sunday rags?

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:and why should he..someone has to train him and we all have to make a living.

Sure, but it's a tad hypocritical to say the lad isn't taking training seriously when...oh wait YOU'RE his trainer. You surely have a say in what he does and how well he does it and, let's have it right, there are plenty of dedicated fighters out there who'd be willing to giving their all for a full time trainer of Hunter's calibre. Just seems Khan is pi$$ing his career away and taking a trainer away from a fighter who would benefit from the experience.

At this moment in time i would make Golovkin the only fighter Middleweight and below to beat him, if it was a legitimate middleweight match rather than Golovkin having to come in massively weight drained. Martinez is looking on the slide for me so Floyd would have a very good chance of beating him. Other than that its clutching at straws with only someone who is a brutal puncher like Matthysse catching him with a lucky punch and KOing him cold.