What really need to save rugby in Europe!

First topic message reminder :

Lets be honest, we've been arguing for a long time about rugby in Europe. But the biggest problem I think that we're facing is the french teams getting super rich and bringing all the top european players over to them while the celtic Italian and english clubs cannot compete finacially with them. I think for us all to be able to stand a chance of competing with them we really need a money source that they dont have. In any new H-Cup the French will receive the same funds as anyone else meaning our teams in the British and Irish isles do not close the money gap.

The only way we can close the money gap with the french is to create a British and Irish cup (not the current one put one for the 24 top teams).

Maybe the English with the BT deal will close the money gap themselves?

Really I'm just saying in a round about way is how do we close the money gap between our leagues and the top14?

There's no point saying they'll bankrupt themselves as ive heard that about the football Prem for over a decade and its srill strong.

Will Sky deal help the Pro 12 teams?

Will our finances grow like the French teams have, and were all just a few years behind and rugby really explofing ib terms of popularity and sponsorship?

Exiledinborders wrote:

JayP wrote:Ta

I am sure there will be a European cup including the rabo teams and am reasonably confident the french clubs will join in.  I hope the English ones do but its not worth any price - indeed its worth quite a lot to stop the attempted PRL coup.

Its very obvious in all this that all the provocative statements come from the PRL not the french and that the french federation have confidence they have some control over the french clubs.  the PRL might not be at the next meeting but no one else is coming to their party.  funny euro cup with just the english teams in it.

I am not sure why you think provocative statements come from PRL. I think if you check for every press release from PRL there is a near identical one from the LNR.

It is clear that the PRL and LNR are not going to play in a ERC competition so the options are:
- no European competition
- a new cup with only PRL & LNR
- a new cup with PRL, LNR and eventually SA Super 15 teams
- a new cup with PRL, LNR and Pro 12
- a new cup with PRL, LNR, Pro 12 and eventually SA Super 15 teams

The PRL and LNR can survive in any of these scenarios due to new TV money and larger attendances than Pro12. The Pro12 teams can only survive if they are involved. I therefore expect them to join.

BT offered £152m to the PRL to have coverage of European rugby, the PRL could not deliver that. The PRL and BT try to start their own European Competition, but no one wants to join because their going to be worse off. PRL and BT try to start a French/English league and now it looks like the IRB will not ratify that because the French union say no.

This leaves BT sponsoring nothing like what they wanted originally. They may well back out of their deal, or cut its value dramatically.

maestegmafia wrote:

HammerofThunor wrote:According to the WalesOnline article quoted previously the LNR and PRL representatives came out after the last ERC meeting denying they agreed to the next meeting. I didn't see the original source for that.

The ERC said they are attending. I'm not sure what the source was that said they were not attending afterwards.

They are invited therefor they really should attend as it gives them a fine opportunity to be open about what they are doing...! Something they are still failing at.

Found it an ESPN article

http://www.espn.co.uk/heineken-cup-2013-14/rugby/story/198251.html

This is the second time (at least) that the ERC have issued statements that Wheeler has denied (first was the meeting that approved or didn't the Sky TV deal). Someone is telling porkies.

HammerofThunor wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

HammerofThunor wrote:According to the WalesOnline article quoted previously the LNR and PRL representatives came out after the last ERC meeting denying they agreed to the next meeting. I didn't see the original source for that.

The ERC said they are attending. I'm not sure what the source was that said they were not attending afterwards.

They are invited therefor they really should attend as it gives them a fine opportunity to be open about what they are doing...! Something they are still failing at.

Found it an ESPN article

http://www.espn.co.uk/heineken-cup-2013-14/rugby/story/198251.html

This is the second time (at least) that the ERC have issued statements that Wheeler has denied (first was the meeting that approved or didn't the Sky TV deal). Someone is telling porkies.

Various sources said that Peter Wheeler was at both meetings. I hadn't read that he later denied being at either?

He's not denied being at meetings. From the first he said the Sky deal, nor any other TV, was discussed or ratified. For the second both he and LNR rep have said they didn't agree to the next meeting in October.

Both meetings it is very clear from various reports that is what is reported, (that which you say Wheeler denies), was discussed.

I haven't seen anything saying that he denies that the sky deal, or in the second case the next meeting, were not discussed.

If this is true, you must presume he was asleep...?

Kingshu wrote:

nth wrote:So the French and English clubs have been demonised for requesting money is split on a club particpation basis; what in god's name would they have been labelled if they'd requested a split similar to that in the PRO12 which centres more on the broadcaster deals they attract?

What about if there was an insistence the all teams in europe could only have 5players in there squad that were not edible to play for the union that the club belonged to?
To me this would even out a lot of the problens that European rugby faces. It the french and English want to dictate things like qualification into europe to becthe same as the frencj amd english leagues then the celtic/italian sides should dictate rules about non union edible players to match our league. IT WORKS BOTH WAYS.

As a Quins fan I am fine with that

maestegmafia wrote:Both meetings it is very clear from various reports that is what is reported, (that which you say Wheeler denies), was discussed.

I haven't seen anything saying that he denies that the sky deal, or in the second case the next meeting, were not discussed.

If this is true, you must presume he was asleep...?

Did you not bother reading the article I linked to? I says both Peter Wheeler and Rene Bouscatel deny agreeing to another meeting. I see you're carrying on your agenda opinion by only refering to the English representative instead both the English and French. Both deny it happened.

Regarding the TV stuff

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/19580339

Relevant part for the lazy reader

"We also note ERC's reference to its board meeting on 6 June, 2012. No specific broadcast deal was presented or voted on at this or any subsequent ERC board meeting. In any case, any such deal could not have included matches involving Premiership Rugby clubs."

HammerofThunor wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:Both meetings it is very clear from various reports that is what is reported, (that which you say Wheeler denies), was discussed.

I haven't seen anything saying that he denies that the sky deal, or in the second case the next meeting, were not discussed.

If this is true, you must presume he was asleep...?

Did you not bother reading the article I linked to? I says both Peter Wheeler and Rene Bouscatel deny agreeing to another meeting. I see you're carrying on your agenda opinion by only refering to the English representative instead both the English and French. Both deny it happened.

Regarding the TV stuff

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/19580339

Relevant part for the lazy reader

"We also note ERC's reference to its board meeting on 6 June, 2012. No specific broadcast deal was presented or voted on at this or any subsequent ERC board meeting. In any case, any such deal could not have included matches involving Premiership Rugby clubs."

I thought that you would have found a link that quotes Peter Wheeler saying he was at both meetings and did not agree with what the ERC say he agreed to on behalf of the PRL.

That was what you were saying happened.

Peter Wheeler was at both meetings. In the BBC article the PRL are quoted as saying no such agreement was discussed at that or later meetings.

And again, did you not read the article I posted a link to? for lazy readers

Wheeler's statement read: "In support of the personal statement made yesterday by René Bouscatel of Ligue Nationale de Rugby (LNR) I would like to say:

"'I too, was surprised by the press statement issued after the meeting on September 11 2013 of the board of ERC of which I am a member. I would make the following points about the content of this statement. No decision was made by the ERC board to reiterate that European club rugby competitions must necessarily be organised by ERC.

"'Secondly, concerning the proposal of some of this board to organise a meeting of the stakeholders, it is the sole right of the individual parties (unions and league organisations) to take a view on any such proposal.'"

And for completeness

Coupes d’Europe : communiqué de René Bouscatel
"Surpris par le communiqué de presse rédigé après la réunion du Comité Directeur de l’ERC du 11 septembre dont je suis membre, je me dois d’apporter les précisions suivantes sur ce communiqué dont le contenu n’a pas été validé en séance :

•d’une part, aucune décision n’a été prise par le Comité Directeur d’ERC pour affirmer ou réaffirmer que les compétitions Européennes des clubs de rugby devaient obligatoirement être organisées par l’ERC,
•d’autre part, s’agissant de la proposition faite par certains lors de ce Comité Directeur d’organiser une réunion des parties prenantes, il appartiendra exclusivement à celles-ci (les fédérations et les ligues) de se positionner sur ce point".