Cueto's salary cap comments

maestegmafia wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:Yappy, remember that living in London is considerably more expensive compared to living in the West Country or East Midlands. In Leicestershire you can get a big barn conversion on a decent bit of land for 350k, in some parts of London that won't get you a three bed flat. Might well mean that Quins need to give out bigger contracts to achieve a like for like deal with say the Saints.

There are no clubs in Central London.. The most central is Richmond... On the A3 a commute from a suburban area takes no time.

LondonTiger wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:Yappy, remember that living in London is considerably more expensive compared to living in the West Country or East Midlands. In Leicestershire you can get a big barn conversion on a decent bit of land for 350k, in some parts of London that won't get you a three bed flat. Might well mean that Quins need to give out bigger contracts to achieve a like for like deal with say the Saints.

There are no clubs in Central London.. The most central is Richmond... On the A3 a commute from a suburban area takes no time.

And have you seen the property prices in Surrey.

And you have obviously never travelled on the A3 (bad road for Quins anyway) or any other commute into London. 3hrs to drive 40 miles is common in rush hour.

LondonTiger wrote:And about commuting - well I do it every day of the week and I leave home at 5:30 to avoid traffic.

Leave home at 6:30 and I am lucky to get to work by 9:30.

LondonTiger wrote:And about commuting - well I do it every day of the week and I leave home at 5:30 to avoid traffic.

Leave home at 6:30 and I am lucky to get to work by 9:30.

beshocked wrote:Commuting to London from Hertfordshire is easy. The likes of Welwyn North, Hitchin,St Albans and Stevenage are relatively speedy.

The Sarries squad guys don't live in London but access is relatively good.

formerly known as Sam wrote:Yappy, remember that living in London is considerably more expensive compared to living in the West Country

beshocked wrote:Londontiger my point is that getting into London from Hertfordshire is easy and not really that expensive.

I think most of the Sarries guys live in St Albans - the commute on the train is very good to London. From St Albans to Barnet it would be a really easy drive too.

Seriously why would you drive into central London as a commute? Train is far easier.

beshocked wrote:Tiger chief what's your source?

Yappysnap so you think Quins failings are to do with the salary cap? I just feel like its being used as an excuse for failure.

yappysnap wrote:Exactly! May as well stick to the cap for all the good it's doing them... 

yappysnap wrote:Exactly, and he'll be able to branch out into the Australian and NZ markets soon as well... And then change the club's name to something with a bit more glitz about it. Like Toulon...

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,3551_8963503,00.html

Coincidental?

beshocked wrote:Yappysnap fair enough. You are right - Quins have won the Amlin and LV cup. Well done. 

Bathman_in_London wrote:If you read the premiership website, then to say they will be prosecuting anyone above £4.5m is not true. That is just the senior squad plus the academy figure.

So on top of that clubs are allowed 1 excluded player, as well as any injury cover and a benefit/testimonial year.

So if we assume that the testimonial will be for a older player on a decent salary, as clearly the excluded player will be too, the total allowed salary cap could be a long way over £4.5m, probably more like £5m.

For a squad of 40 players that would be an average wage of £125k, which seems like a lot when you include the youngsters. It makes me wonder if the cap is really being broken by as much as people make out?

Running Rugby wrote:Premiership Rugby’s response is to issue new powers to its salary cap manager and, perhaps crucially, it has outlined a specific scale of points penalties that will be applicable to any club contravening the cap.

Level of Breach Points Sanction

£0 to £75,000 – 4 points

£75,000.01 to £125,000 – 10 points

£125,000.01 to £175,000 – 20 points

£175,000.01 to £250,000 – 30 points

Over £250,000 – 40 points

Such a penalty will be imposed along with a fine that is equivalent to £3 for every £1 by which the cap is exceeded if the salary cap has not been breached in the two previous seasons, £5 for every £1 if it has been breached once in the past two years and £10 for every £1 if it was breached in both of the previous seasons.

The points penalty will be applied with immediate effect if the decision is made prior to round 22 or next season if it is made after that and Premiership Rugby hopes that the new rules will act as a deterrent and “promote the effective administration, management and governance of the salary cap”.

Interestingly though, there is a significant caveat in the regulations dictating that the disciplinary panel has the power to impose different penalties that are more severe or, as stated below, less harsh than the ones previously detailed:

Code:

10 October 2013 by Tim Groves

As revealed in Running Rugby back in August, Premier Rugby Limited has introduced a “new, more transparent, salary cap monitoring and investigation system” but how far exactly do the new regulations go?

Sale winger Mark Cueto became the latest person to criticise the current state of affairs last week when he insisted there was no way some clubs were adhering to the salary cap and said that was “blatantly obvious” to everyone in rugby.

Premiership Rugby’s response is to issue new powers to its salary cap manager and, perhaps crucially, it has outlined a specific scale of points penalties that will be applicable to any club contravening the cap.

Level of Breach Points Sanction

£0 to £75,000 – 4 points

£75,000.01 to £125,000 – 10 points

£125,000.01 to £175,000 – 20 points

£175,000.01 to £250,000 – 30 points

Over £250,000 – 40 points

Such a penalty will be imposed along with a fine that is equivalent to £3 for every £1 by which the cap is exceeded if the salary cap has not been breached in the two previous seasons, £5 for every £1 if it has been breached once in the past two years and £10 for every £1 if it was breached in both of the previous seasons.

The points penalty will be applied with immediate effect if the decision is made prior to round 22 or next season if it is made after that and Premiership Rugby hopes that the new rules will act as a deterrent and “promote the effective administration, management and governance of the salary cap”.

Interestingly though, there is a significant caveat in the regulations dictating that the disciplinary panel has the power to impose different penalties that are more severe or, as stated below, less harsh than the ones previously detailed:

“The disciplinary panel shall be entitled to exercise its discretion to impose a penalty which is less than set out in Regulation 13.3 - 13.6 where, in the view of the disciplinary panel, such penalty would lead to the club being unfairly punished or treated under the regulations or would lead to a result not within the spirit and underlying purpose of the regulations.”

Any guilty club will also have to fork out for all reasonable costs incurred by PRL in connection with the breach and all fines and costs must be paid within 21 days or interest, which accrues daily at 2% above the base rate from time to time of National Westminster Bank plc, will be payable to PRL as well.

In extreme cases, if it is not paid after 30 days, clubs will also be automatically deemed ineligible for the following year's Heineken Cup, LV= Cup and Amlin Challenge Cup competitions and the amount outstanding will be increased by 100% of the original penalty, fine and/or costs. That amount is then increased by 100% of the original penalty for every additional 30 days.

If the worst were to happen, it is unclear what the effect on the Heineken Cup, LV= Cup or Amlin Challenge Cup would be and whether there would be a team to replace the offending club or whether a void would be created.

Premiership Rugby also appears to have responded to some of the allegations made in the London Welsh saga by implementing a specific clause relating to “individual responsibility for a false certification or false declaration”.

The clause allows any chairman, CEO or finance director to be removed from office if the disciplinary panel deems that, on the balance of probabilities, there has been any wrongdoing and also that “no club shall thereafter appoint that person as a director”.

A detailed definition of what constitutes a salary, including match fees, royalties, loyalty payments, child support, accommodation/holiday costs, pension contributions, expenses, payments for promotional, media, endorsement or any other off-field activities, signing-on fees, relocation allowances and more, is also outlined.

And all this has been done, as was the case when the salary cap was introduced for the first time back in July 1999, in order to ensure the financial viability of all clubs, control inflationary pressures, provide a level playing field and ensure a competitive Aviva Premiership competition, something which chief executive Mark McCafferty thinks has been achieved.

“These objectives are borne out in the financial success the league is now seeing, with a healthy turnover of teams at the top of the league. We have also had three different winners of the Aviva Premiership Rugby competition in as many years, in the most competitive league in world rugby (highest number of games finishing in less than one score compared to any other rugby competition in the world),” he said.

The salary cap regulations fall under the remit of Premiership Rugby’s rugby director Phil Winstanley and he insists that the salary cap is working and has an important role to play in the sport.

“It was inevitable that as the game develops we would conduct a review of the salary cap,” he said.

“Salary caps exist in many commercially successful sports around the world.  The most obvious examples are the NFL and NHL in the USA, and the NRL and AFL in Australia.

“The introduction in football of UEFA's Financial Fair Play and the Premier League clubs' new financial regulations, together with salary caps in rugby league, county cricket, and in rugby union with France's Top 14 and the Welsh regions, all demonstrating how European sport has recently grasped the importance of controlling costs and long-term financial sustainability.”

The cap remains at the 2012/13 level of £4.26m, plus eight portions of £30,000 academy credits (producing a maximum of £4.5m) and the retention of the excluded player, whereby one individual lies outside the cap – the so-called ‘marquee signing’.

A formal whistle blowing policy has also been brought in where people can speak to the salary cap manager on a confidential basis by calling 07583 826343 or emailing salarycap@premiershiprugby.com.

It remains to be seen how the changes to the administration, monitoring and investigation of the cap will be implemented and enforced in practice but Premiership Rugby will be hoping that the points penalties in particular act as a major deterrent to any club contemplating crossing the line.

Please click on the link below for the original Running Rugby article on the new salary cap regulations:

AP Clubs Agree To More Transparency On Salary Cap Investigations

propdavid_london wrote:I've said it before in a post a year back - with regards to salary caps.  I do think it would be a fairer system to inflate the salary cap for those 'London' clubs.  
The public sector has London waiting for key workers where they get a slightly higher salary compensating for the higher living costs in those areas.  

I am not talking about people cheating the system - just suggesting that its adjusted to be fairer.  
As LT suggests - wouldn't be surprised if Quins have to pay more for the same standard of player compared to elsewhere!