Yid army

Apparently it is a criminal offense for anyone including tottenham fans to sing or chant the phrase yid or yid army etc at football games.

Is this a legitimate tool to combat anti-semitism or is it political correctness gone too far?

Bloody political correctness. I see they arrested one fan out of the many thousands that chanted it. If they wish to ban this word, I'd like for the Society of Black Lawyers to be abolished.

the problem is that the word yid is being used in a positive way by tottenham fans it is not being used as an insult, if you ban the word yid you also need to ban the word nigg£r even when it is being used positively by black people otherwise it is double standards.

Its stupid, however I would wonder what he got arrested for. Cos both sets of fans sang it. Hard to call, some would say you would never sing the N word, so why sing the Y word? I dont think its a comparison that holds weight, but considering that Tottenham do have real Jewish history and its coming from outside the club, I would wonder whether its people being touchy for the sake of it. David Baddiel, who is meant to be a right Muppet anyway, I really think hes causing a fuss beyond any more care than he actually has.

Exactly CS. As well as the N word:

"Tory" used to be an insult, a long time ago, now the Conservative party embrace that word.

"Faggot" used to be an insult, now a lot of gay people don't mind being called that.

The Tottenham fans are using "yid" as a source of pride for their club's Jewish heritage. Nothing wrong with it in my view. Even the Prime Minister thinks it's acceptable.

Duty281 wrote:Exactly CS. As well as the N word:

"Tory" used to be an insult, a long time ago, now the Conservative party embrace that word.

"Faggot" used to be an insult, now a lot of gay people don't mind being called that.

The Tottenham fans are using "yid" as a source of pride for their club's Jewish heritage. Nothing wrong with it in my view. Even the Prime Minister thinks it's acceptable.

I dont know a gay person who likes being called a faggot. Although its derivation is hard to pin, versions of it are horrible. Most notably that some believe it to come from wood used to burn witches and gay people, and that only the rubbish "faggot" pieces of wood were used for gay people - although its quite unsubstantiated.

Similarly, not sure you can compare racial slurs to being a Tory, or using that word as an insult.

Aside from all that, etymology could be discussed forever, I think the word has a different meaning in football. I have many a times said "I hate Yid scum", it doesnt even cross my mind to mean jewish people, I just hate spurs.

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Exactly CS. As well as the N word:

"Tory" used to be an insult, a long time ago, now the Conservative party embrace that word.

"Faggot" used to be an insult, now a lot of gay people don't mind being called that.

The Tottenham fans are using "yid" as a source of pride for their club's Jewish heritage. Nothing wrong with it in my view. Even the Prime Minister thinks it's acceptable.

I dont know a gay person who likes being called a faggot. Although its derivation is hard to pin, versions of it are horrible. Most notably that some believe it to come from wood used to burn witches and gay people, and that only the rubbish "faggot" pieces of wood were used for gay people - although its quite unsubstantiated.

Similarly, not sure you can compare racial slurs to being a Tory, or using that word as an insult.

Aside from all that, etymology could be discussed forever, I think the word has a different meaning in football. I have many a times said "I hate Yid scum", it doesnt even cross my mind to mean jewish people, I just hate spurs.

I assure you, sir, there are quite a few.

Very odd, but if you like it Duty then I cant judge

I have known of people arrested for shouting it though. But then I have gay friends who I just abuse when I see them, but its fully well known its a joke. However, as much as Gay Darren might not mind me calling him a bum bothering sissy or similar when I see him, I wouldnt do it to people I dont know.

I think its interesting in this debate of the word that Yid hasnt been allowed a definition change to grant new meaning. Things can be a bit queer, a faggot is a food, gay is happy. But Yid, whilst used in a different context for different meaning, is still stuck as just an offensive term in the minds of some.

I would hope the mods dont ban the word, well not in the right context and used in reasoned debate.

I think that banning and criminalising the word yid by tottenham fans is an insult to the real victims of racism.

real victims of racism who have suffered deserve far better than to have their abuse labelled as the same as some tottenham fans calling themselves the 'yid army'.

There are real instances of racism in the Uk and wasting time and public money stopping tottenham fans singing yid army is doing nothing to help combat racism and is just wasting time and resources that could be used to truely help the fight against real instances of racism.

Similar in Scotland its an offence to call Celtic fans 'Fenians' but alot call themselves that.

Ooooh a right wing bigoted love fest.

Enjoy lads and duty.

I'm not PC, but Jewish people I know are upset that Tottenham 'fans', who aren't even Jewish for the most part, use that term to describe themselves. For that reason alone it should be banned.

How dare PC stop bigots from being openly bigoted. Gone are the days when we could say what we want to nigras.

RinoGattuso wrote:Similar in Scotland its an offence to call Celtic fans 'Fenians' but alot call themselves that.

It's all about context, I don't think its wrong for people to label themselves Fenians if thats what they are but I do think its wrong for people to label them "Fenian B*****ds" simply for supporting a certain football team.

I don't believe any word should be banned unless its used in a derogatory manner

For the record I've never been offended by anything I've heard at a football game but thanks to the invention of the Internet and fans forums these 'slurs' are now a not just aimed during 90 minutes on Saturday, they're there for all too see 24/7 and if we have any hopes of educating our children and our childrens children to be more accepting and tolerant of others they'll no doubt find themselves sharing a city with, then we have to nip it in the bud at some point, now is as good a time as any

azania wrote:How dare PC stop bigots from being openly bigoted. Gone are the days when we could say what we want to nigras.

That is the debate, are they being openly bigoted? are they trying to cause any offense? or are they taking pride in their clubs traditions and connections to the jewish community?

Also why is the report post button next to your name in red whilst everyone else's is white?

They are being ignorant.

No idea. Perhaps a prompt to the mods to watch me carefully.

They may have been innocent to start, but when Jewish groups say openly that they are offended, and the Spurs 'fans' carry on regardless, then they ARE trying to cause offense.

David Cameron was spot on when he said that hate speech should only be prosecuted when it is motivated by hate, which of course would be the mens rea of a crime.

Duty281 wrote:David Cameron was spot on when he said that hate speech should only be prosecuted when it is motivated by hate, which of course would be the mens rea of a crime.

Spot on Duty.

Now there's a surprise. It was pc that eliminated certain racist words used commonly on tv shows like "love thy neighbour". But bigots will be upset by any challenge to their need to express their bigotry.

Cameron is dead wrong and he will do a u turn the moment a Jewish person puts him straight.

So now im a bigot? I use reason to discuss points but because I don't agree I must be racist?

azania wrote:Now there's a surprise.  It was pc that eliminated certain racist words used commonly on tv shows like "love thy neighbour". But bigots will be upset by any challenge to their need to express their bigotry.

Cameron is dead wrong and he will do a u turn the moment a Jewish person puts him straight.

Fantastic TV program that Azania. I hope the PC brigade recognise that the racism is equally reciprocated. Though I doubt it, somehow.

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:So now im a bigot? I use reason to discuss points but because I don't agree I must be racist?

In Azania's world, any one who doesn't go along with what he says is a "racist" or "bigot" or "hater" of some description.

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:So now im a bigot? I use reason to discuss points but because I don't agree I must be racist?

I wouldn't pay any attention to AZ, there are black, white, brown, pakistani, christian, muslim, jewish, athiest, homosexuals and transexual people who turn up to support tottenham every week and they all sing yid army not to be offensive to anyone but to celebrate the clubs fantastic connections and deep rich history with the jewish community.

Azzy Mahmood wrote:They may have been innocent to start, but when Jewish groups say openly that they are offended, and the Spurs 'fans' carry on regardless, then they ARE trying to cause offense.

Certain religious groups get offended when I eat my bacon sandwich on the bus or when I kiss my girlfriend in public or when two gay people walk down the street holding hands. Should I stop doing the above because I am causing offense even though I am not intending to offend anyone but I know that my actions offend those certain religious groups?

I am a champagne socialist so I don't often agree with David Cameron but he is right when he said that hate speech crimes should be reserved for people whose intentions are to spread hate and to offend.

Azzy Mahmood wrote:They may have been innocent to start, but when Jewish groups say openly that they are offended, and the Spurs 'fans' carry on regardless, then they ARE trying to cause offense.

Thats just not true.

If the original intent was not to offend then the continuation of that is that they are not trying to offend.

Duty281 wrote:

azania wrote:Now there's a surprise.  It was pc that eliminated certain racist words used commonly on tv shows like "love thy neighbour". But bigots will be upset by any challenge to their need to express their bigotry.

Cameron is dead wrong and he will do a u turn the moment a Jewish person puts him straight.

Fantastic TV program that Azania. I hope the PC brigade recognise that the racism is equally reciprocated. Though I doubt it, somehow.

Of course. Go buy "Birth of a Nation".

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:So now im a bigot? I use reason to discuss points but because I don't agree I must be racist?

Duty and cs are overt bigots. Their reasoning is to justify ethnic slurs and the right to use bigoted language.

Soon they will fall back on their usual bs by saying some blacks use the N word and its hypocrisy if a white person can't call a black man the N word. It's an argument they've used before.

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

Azzy Mahmood wrote:They may have been innocent to start, but when Jewish groups say openly that they are offended, and the Spurs 'fans' carry on regardless, then they ARE trying to cause offense.

Certain religious groups get offended when I eat my bacon sandwich on the bus or when I kiss my girlfriend in public or when two gay people walk down the street holding hands. Should I stop doing the above because I am causing offense even though I am not intending to offend anyone but I know that my actions offend those certain religious groups?

I am a champagne socialist so I don't often agree with David Cameron but he is right when he said that hate speech crimes should be reserved for people whose intentions are to spread hate and to offend.

You're not a champagne socialist. You're a w.anchor.

I do have better things to do with my time than trawl round the boards on here to see where you lot have decided to continue the name calling this evening. Not sure how many times I have to say this or how plainly News was not closed with a view to you carrying on the arguments on another thread.

Yet another thread locked, bans will follow if it continues.