Tommy Allan

First article: http://www.scotsman.com/sport/rugby/latest/italy-set-to-swipe-tommy-allan-away-from-scotland-1-3132576

Update: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/24456254


Highlights: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=n34jBJ393vw&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Dn34jBJ393vw

Thought I would start a separate thread to the Scotland XV as this may be an ongoing story with many twists and turns. Or perhaps it won't. Either way, less clutter and confusion.

I guess he must have preferred the sunshine and lovely ladies to Scotlands rain and...

... wee Marys?

Speechless

How on earth did we lose him ?

V v good player much better than healthcote IMHO

Must have been paid to sign up can't see any other reason .

There is a bit of discussion going on in another thread about Edinburgh signing overseas players and the lack of home grown talent. This makes me wonder

I didn't realise his first name was Tomaso.

I presume (money aside) that with Italy having a few aging 10's and Scotland having several young ones he thinks he will gt more caps for Italy. He's probably right too.

Highlights from Racing Metro vs USA Perpignan (19-16) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnpuQSv0Pt8

I was unaware of his Italian roots as well. As you say Bathman_in_London, he is definitely likely to earn more caps with Italy if he accepts. So I guess it comes down to, does he want to be involved in a team that has lots of competition, where he could really try and challenge for a spot as Scotland's outright flyhalf? Or does he want less competition with a team that I would consider less likely to better Scotland's performances over the next 5 years or so?

I am not too bothered either way, Scotland have several young flyhalfs in the mix at the moment. What will suck though, is if Allan becomes a star in France and Leonard, Wight, Heathcote all turn out to be pretty average/struggle for game time.

I think the SRU have to offer him a call up, otherwise I can't see him being Scottish for much longer.

Watched plenty u20's games he didn't really stand out for me. players which impressed me were Johnny Gray, Rory Hughes, Hidalgo-Clyne, Mark Bennett,  JJ Kilmartin and Will Bordill, considering 5 of these players are with either Edinburgh or Glasgow and 3 of these players have already played more pro rugby than Tommo this season then can't agree that were not giving opportunities to youngsters.

Rumour was Edinburgh where going to sign him, yeah because having another EDP at 10 is exactly what we needed when we already have Leonard and Hunter who are developing in this position.

We already nabbed Heathcote and threw him into a Scotland game which I didn't agree with, so certainly wouldn't want to chuck this guy into a Scotland shirt just to cap him, Unfair and Cheapens the game.

alive555 wrote:Speechless

How on earth did we lose him ?

V v good player much better than healthcote IMHO

Must have been paid to sign up can't see any other reason .

Erm, he's half Italian? His mum played for Italy? He's coached by an Italian at USAP? Thee's only Orquera and Burton in front of him?

allyt2k wrote:Watched plenty u20's games he didn't really stand out for me. players which impressed me were Johnny Gray, Rory Hughes, Hidalgo-Clyne, Mark Bennett,  JJ Kilmartin and Will Bordill, considering 5 of these players are with either Edinburgh or Glasgow and 3 of these players have already played more pro rugby than Tommo this season then can't agree that were not giving opportunities to youngsters.

Rumour was Edinburgh where going to sign him, yeah because having another EDP at 10 is exactly what we needed when we already have Leonard and Hunter who are developing in this position.

We already nabbed Heathcote and threw him into a Scotland game which I didn't agree with, so certainly wouldn't want to chuck this guy into a Scotland shirt just to cap him, Unfair and Cheapens the game.

Tend to agree with you there, ally

So what are the chances Edinburgh move to sign him straight after he has been capped for Italy and is NSQ?!

Yes most people seem to be ignoring the possibility that he actually wants to play for Italy more than Scotland! He is in fact more Italian than Scottish, having been born there himself as well as having an Italian mother. He's never lived in Scotland, his Scottish connection is through his father who was born here but grew up in South Africa. So I would not be at all surprised if he has always wanted to play for Italy, and if that is the case there is not much the SRU could have done. I certainly wouldn't be expecting them to promise future caps to a player with one professional appearance, or to cap that player this Autumn. Perhaps an A cap but our next A international is not until February I think.

You could of course say he should have played for Italy age groups, but perhaps he wasn't given the chance. We have capped many, many players who played age group rugby for other countries so we can't really complain.

I sort of agree with you Pat, as you say, Scotland have capped players who have represented other countries at age group, but I think he could have done so for Italy if he so desired. What would have been preventing him? If he really wanted to play for Italy why would he then play U20's for Scotland when he would be a welcome addition to U20 Italian rugby?

I think the thought of playing international rugby for Scotland was his initial ambition, but due to circumstances at USA Perpignan and Italy showing such keen interest, he's been swayed to swap to his Mothers country of birth. I personally don't disagree with it, he has every right to play for Italy and should be congratulated if he does. However, the SRU have a lot to answer for if they considered him to be a real talent and a potential Scotland FH, because they have been far too complacent.

bsando wrote:I sort of agree with you Pat, as you say, Scotland have capped players who have represented other countries at age group, but I think he could have done so for Italy if he so desired. What would have been preventing him? If he really wanted to play for Italy why would he then play U20's for Scotland when he would be a welcome addition to U20 Italian rugby?

I think the thought of playing international rugby for Scotland was his initial ambition, but due to circumstances at USA Perpignan and Italy showing such keen interest, he's been swayed to swap to his Mothers country of birth. I personally don't disagree with it, he has every right to play for Italy and should be congratulated if he does. However, the SRU have a lot to answer for if they considered him to be a real talent and a potential Scotland FH, because they have been far too complacent.

Have they though? We don't actually know how much contact there's been. They might have been contacting him regularly, telling him he's part of future plans, begging him to commit to us, and he might still have decided he'd rather play for Italy.

Scotland could have done the sneaky thing and cap him so the Italians couldn't get him!   In the next decade he could possibly be the difference between Scotland and Italy winning 6 nations matches.

If that were so and he was 100% committed to Italy then I think he would be saying something on twitter. He's gone quiet on there though. Surely he'd be saying something if he had made his mind up.

profitius wrote:Scotland could have done the sneaky thing and cap him so the Italians couldn't get him!   In the next decade he could possibly be the difference between Scotland and Italy winning 6 nations matches.

Ah just you wait Profitius, Scotland are on the verge of achieving greatness.. for the 6th, 7th.. ah I forget, time in a row.

If Tommo was good enough to be given a contract then it would most likely have been Edinburgh.
In the last 3 seasons if the SRU had listened to the fans who they wanted at 10 for Edinburgh we would have Rory Hutton, Lee Miller, Harry Leonard, Gregor Hunter and now Tommo Allan anyone else? basically anyone who can Standup right and catch a ball.

He's played 1 game of pro rugby anyone who reads some of the comments on other forums would think we've missed out on a 100 game pro veteran who's the equal of Dan Carter.

I don't think anyone is comparing him to Dan Carter or even just a decent international 10. It's just upsetting to see him out of contention, if he is. 

In terms of FH for Scotland, currently there is Weir, Jackson, Heathcote, Horne, Hogg?, Leonard, Wight, hidalgo-clyne plus more..

Italy - Di Bernardo, Orquera, ? 

So in terms of developing a competitive 6n etc this could be great for Italy.

Maybe he is trying to get a move to Edinburgh and he felt being Scottish was counting against him  

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/24456254

So apparently SRU and his uncle John Allan are confused by this news. However, his uncle suggests that "I was always pushing Tommaso, or Tommy as I call him, to play for Scotland. But I think he'll go for whoever gets in first." 


And he also goes on to say


 "The only problem I have is why did Scotland let this opportunity slip through their hands?

I’m undecided what my thoughts would be if Scotland called him up and he rejected the Italians, and we gave him a token cap off the bench against Japan and then ignored him for a few years as he developed his game. It would clearly be a case of just capping him for the sake of it – and that doesn’t sit right.

At least in Heathcoat’s case he hadn’t had an official alternative offer from another country.

I Agree RDW, his U20's coach Peter Wright in the BBC article speaks a lot of sense, basically saying he is not ready for international rugby yet. This whole situation is pretty rubbish. Italy have essentially dangled a juicey carrot out in front of him and he's found it too hard to resist. I think he is rushing things and needs to speak to some wise heads.

The problem is that we’re probably going to have to guarantee him a cap in the AIs for him to chose us.

It’s a shame this didn’t happen in the lead up to the 6N when we have A team games.

many thoughts from many posters

For me it comes down to this.

Is Allan cut out to play for Scotland? Currently that answer is no.  Is he currently good enough to play for Italy? The Italian coaches seem to think so.

Does Allan want to play for italy now or does he want to improve to play for Scotland later? This is the question only he can answer.  

From a Scottish point of view I look at it as if he goes to italy then I would not want him in a Scotland set up as he is not driven or feels he can improve enough to be Scotland's 10.  This is the totally wrong attitude to have imo!

Look at Tim Visser - He could easily have been capped by the Netherlands years and years ago and followed in the footsteps of his father who captained the Dutch side! But Visser wanted to improve and play for a better team (arguably) so he improved himself and waited his time till he could be selected for Scotland!

Set the bar as high as you can.  Don't set your sights low and stumble along!

tigertattie wrote:Look at Tim Visser - He could easily have been capped by the Netherlands years and years ago and followed in the footsteps of his father who captained the Dutch side! But Visser wanted to improve and play for a better team (arguably) so he improved himself and waited his time till he could be selected for Scotland!

Wasn't Visser qualified for England when he moved to Embra? Pretty sure he played for their Age Teams anyway.

As to Allan the last line of the Beeb article has me thinking:

The BBC wrote:"Allan was linked with a move to Edinburgh when playing out of Western Province in South Africa before joining Perpignan."

Was he really selected for Scottish Age teams while living in SA - or was he at school in Scotland?

He was at school in England and was in the Wasps Academy when he was in the u17 and u18 squads but was playing for Western Province when he was in the U20s.

for me this is it

if he thinks italy is comparable to scotland then god help him

we absolutlely dont need him

hey fck him . he is a disgrace to our proud nation

what a selfish cnt

better rid of him.

So he's an Italian born Englishman with links to South Africa and Scotland.

blackcanelion wrote:So he's an Italian born Englishman with links to South Africa and Scotland.

In a nutshell, bc!!

His uncle John Allan, who managed to represent two countires, is in today's Herald indicating that a contract with one of the two pro-districts may turn his head!  

reeks of self promotion and money seeking!

Why would he want to leave Perpignan to play Prem 1 rugby while being attached to Edinburgh or Glasgow??

alive555 wrote:hey fck him . he is a disgrace to our proud nation

what a selfish cnt

better rid of him.

 
Call me Mr Sensitive, but I am sensing displeasure, Alive.

tigertattie wrote:reeks of self promotion and money seeking!

Sources allege that Tommy took advice from a company called Mark McCafferty Consulting who advised him to gather his toys together and jettison them from his pram.

Why is his Uncle involved at all? Looking for an agents cut I presume.

"Tommy Allan has been well-known to SRU coaches since joining the Exiles system as a teenager living in Henley-on-Thames. After the IRB Junior World Championships in France in June, Scott Johnson, Scotland's director of rugby, and his team, including Scotland head coach-in-waiting Vern Cotter, have been in regular contact with him.
That relationship continued until as recently as last Thursday when one of Scotland's coaching squad phoned him to get an update on his progress. During that call, it is understood Allan did not intimate a desire to play for Italy, but that all changed on Tuesday afternoon."

The fact he has been getting regular calls from the SRU really speaks volumes. He must have been in contact with Italy as well then surely? Would they just add a player to a team sheet without first speaking to him? This whole thing smells rotten. 

SRU probably should have probably given him a contract
Allan should not have thrown his toys out of his pram when they didn't
So I think now SRU should probably just stick to their guns by saying a contract in the future is quite likely, we see potential in Allan but we're in no rush to cap him this autumn and give him what he wants. 
If he runs to Italy, so be it, he's acted immaturely and SRU will hopefully learn from this whole farce.

He's not been capped yet mind!

bsando wrote:Yep this is turning into blatant black mail. Doing themselves no favours. 


"Tommy Allan has been well-known to SRU coaches since joining the Exiles system as a teenager living in Henley-on-Thames. After the IRB Junior World Championships in France in June, Scott Johnson, Scotland's director of rugby, and his team, including Scotland head coach-in-waiting Vern Cotter, have been in regular contact with him.
That relationship continued until as recently as last Thursday when one of Scotland's coaching squad phoned him to get an update on his progress. During that call, it is understood Allan did not intimate a desire to play for Italy, but that all changed on Tuesday afternoon."

The fact he has been getting regular calls from the SRU really speaks volumes. He must have been in contact with Italy as well then surely? Would they just add a player to a team sheet without first speaking to him? This whole thing smells rotten. 

SRU probably should have probably given him a contract
Allan should not have thrown his toys out of his pram when they didn't
So I think now SRU should probably just stick to their guns by saying a contract in the future is quite likely, we see potential in Allan but we're in no rush to cap him this autumn and give him what he wants. 
If he runs to Italy, so be it, he's acted immaturely and SRU will hopefully learn from this whole farce.

I have a feeling that Italy have done this before. I can't remember what player it was but about a year or so ago I am sure Italy called up a player without speaking to him. The player was also qualified for another country and chose the other nation. Can anyone else remember it?

alive555 wrote:hey fck him . he is a disgrace to our proud nation

what a selfish cnt

better rid of him.

Why? As far as I can tell he's at least as Italian as he is Scottish. How has he disgraced your nation? And do you really think that the difference in quality between representing Italy or Scotland is as laughably high as IOU imply in your other comment?

If he genuinely wants to play for Italy more than Scotland, then fair enough. It's not a choice I would have made (I wanted to play for Scotland purely based on my parentage, despite being born in England and raised in the US and England), but if his eyes are open then I'll shake his hand and wish him all the best.

If, however, this is just a ploy to get a Scotland call-up (which seems slightly illogical - simply telling the SRU that the FIR had approached him would have worked just as well) or a pro contract in Scotland, then thanks very much Tommasso, there's the door [gestures angrily].

It seems mighty strange that he would have been speaking to the SRU regularly, and as recently as last week, and that he wouldn't have mentioned his Italy call up, had he known about it. I can't help noticing that he hasn't tweeted since the announcement, despite tweeting fairly regularly (perhaps once a day, on average) - you would have thought he would be celebrating it in some way...

Can I be snide? I think Strokosch's try in June annoyed Jacques Brunel more than we thought, and this is his attempt at revenge. I think the FIR announced the squad before telling Allen. I'd suggest that his management is genuinely a bit bumfuzzled by the whole thing (I don't suppose his uncle has credentials...), and he is a bit conflicted between the choice of a genuine cap with Italy this autumn and a probably cap with Scotland within the next 2-3 years (probably after the World Cup). It's a tough one for any player.

It's also possible, though not likely, that Brunel simply thought that Allen was keener than he actually was, and made the announcement in good faith. Italian is a tough language to speak or understand. That's why I eat at Pizza Hut instead of Zizzi. There's very little ambiguity in the Ice Cream Factory...

alive555 wrote:hey fck him . he is a disgrace to our proud nation

what a selfish cnt

better rid of him.

Come on Alive,don't beat around the bush tell us what you really think!