South African Autumn tour, Wales, Scotland, France.

by **Biltong** Tue 15 Oct 2013, 10:52 am

First topic message reminder :

On November the 9th South Africa will face Wales at the Millennium Stadium, a week later on the 17th of November South Africa will face the Scotland at Murray field, and then finish their tour off against France on the 23rd of November at Stade de France.

Wales are the Six Nations Champions, their players are in good form, Halfpenny is most likely the 2013 IRB player of the year and his metronomic boot during the British and Irish Lions Tour in Australia has proven once again to be an important aspect of test rugby.

Wales' biggest danger for South Africa lies in their backline, Davies, Roberts, North, Cuthbert and Halfpenny are all a class act, but I believe their half back pairing is where their weakness (if you want to call Phillips, Priestland/Biggar/other a weakness). they have a solid tight five and good back row, do they still perhaps require a strong ball carrier at 8?

This should be a tough match for South Africa first up, I would think they would want to continue with their momentum game, hit the fringes of the breakdowns hard, swing the ball at pace and hopefully there will be a better balance between organisation and open rugby. It will be a must for them to ensure their defensive lines and cover defence is up to the task when Wales gets turnover ball and SA will have to minimise their mistakes.

Scotland will have taken a lot a confidence out of their match they played against South Africa in June, they managed to spoil the breakdown area for the Springboks and had a few good moves scoring two beautifully worked tries. Ultimately in the freezing conditions at Murray field, South Africa will have to buck up their breakdown work and play wide as often as possible. Tim Visser in my view is the weak defensive point out wide, and SA will likely want to exploit that.

France is another kettle of fish, I don't know whether there is much cohesion and team spirit in their dressing room, but SA have struggled there in the last decade. This one could be a blow out either way, if France pitch up we will be in for a tough time.

This will be an interesting tour, South Africa managed to come away unbeaten in Europe last year, but they weren't playing all that well, and each of those games could well have been lost.

Will Meyer get his charges to continue with their progress, will he experiment a little with his selections and will they find the right balance between attack and structured play?

Selections.

The Springbok front row performed well during the Rugby Championship, however I do believe Jannie du Plessis needs a much needed rest, he was pulverised by Steven Kitshoff this past weekend in the Currie Cup and his fatigue is showing. Frans Malherbe looks like one for the future and hopefully he can get an opportunity. I still don't believe Coenie Oosthuizen is a tight head, and Steven Kitshoff is another youngster that deserves a shot.

I hope Gurthro Steenkamp is not selected, he is getting on and we need the youngsters to come through.

In Bismarck and Adriaan Strauss I believe we have two of the best hookers in world rugby, they also compliment each other very well, as Bismarck is more the grinder in the ruck type, where as Strauss is an excellent carrier of the ball.

At lock we do have a bit of an issue, all our locks are very young, there is a string of 4 or so players who shows a lot of promise and should get opportunities soon.

Etzebeth has shown after 18 tests he is a world class act, and can only get better, Pieter Steph du Toit has come back from injury and he has now played a few games of Currie Cup, so should be back in the Springbok squad.

Schalk Burger is back, whether he will have had enough game time to get called up I don't know, he has been eased into the Currie cup with three 20 minute performances, he does concern me a bit, as he looks rather tentative in contact, however having said that, his distribution is something he has worked on, so he might be that vital link man we need.

Arno Botha is still injured so I doubt we will see him. Lappies Labuschagne will hopefully get a call up after a brilliant season. The problem we have in the back row is not lack of talent or depth, but what combination Meyer thinks is best. I would suggest he looks at horses for courses, dependant on the opponent.

At Halfback, surely Piet van Zyl will get a call up, we must give the youngsters a chance.

Johan Goosen played his first game this past weekend, albeit only 15 minutes, and although forgotten man Elgar Watts has been a valuable member of the Cheetahs this year, Goosen showed how well he could get a back line moving this weekend. Is there a chance of seeing him?

Somehow I don't think so, I do however hope we get to see Lambie in the 10 shirt.

Our midfield of Jean de Villiers and JJ Engelbrecht has had a good year, specifically on attack, Engelbrecht do have some defensive lapses though, and something he needs to work on.

Jan Serfontein needs more game time, and hopefully he can start a few games, with Englebrecht using his pace on the wing, where I believe he could be usefull.

Willie le Roux has some defensive weaknesses, something he needs to focus on, We also need to find a replacement for Zane the predictable Kirchner.

All in all this is going to be a tough test for Heyenke Meyer, the question is how much is he prepared to experiment?

by fa0019 Wed 23 Oct 2013, 3:46 pm

Biltong wrote:I am the epitome of diplomacy.

Check in the latest Oxford dictionary.

Que????

I looked you up in the dictionary and only found a description of cured horsemeat?? Well at least thats what we sell to tourists and foreigners!

by TJ Wed 23 Oct 2013, 4:51 pm

From a #Scotland point of veiw - we want good weather as well- we have a young fast team. However it is true we are more used to playing in bad weather.

Scotland will not be beaten before leaving the changing room as has been the case in the past. We know we can mix it with the SH and have nothing to fear. We should also have had a good warm up against Japan.

I would imagine we will play with the Glasgow style defense - attack the breakdowns and fast line speed to deny you space to play in. Our loosies will go a hunting all day and we have a ginger tackle monster to set on you Smile

I would say back row, second row we can match anyone in the world. Front row is a bit variable but the new scrummage rules seem to suit our guys so long as Ford can learn to hook and our guys are in good form. add to that a couple of decent if young centres and a more than decent back 3.

Our difficulty will be in being calm and in not kicking the ball away all the time? Can this SA team counter from deep? if so and if Laidlaw starts kicking too much we could be in trouble

Breakdown will be where the game is won or lost - that and if Scotland can deny the SA midfield any space. Laidlaw seems to be getting back to his best and at his best he is superb around the fringes. Watching him strip the ball from the number 8 in the HC game was great fun. He took the ball off him several times. You will have to be very precise at the scrums to negate him. I back our backrow to give you a hard time.

by fa0019 Wed 23 Oct 2013, 5:04 pm

I want a torrential gale myself. Make the bokke wet themselves before they step out onto the pitch.

by TJ Wed 23 Oct 2013, 5:07 pm

Freezing cold but sunny might be best. We need a dry ball to play our best - but the cold might get to the Boks

by **Biltong** Wed 23 Oct 2013, 7:09 pm

Hmmm, the smack talk is on.

Looking forward to it.

I got the Welsh and the Scots all gungho and ready to go, now where to find me a Frenchie........

by TJ Wed 23 Oct 2013, 9:06 pm

Hello BIltong - we have a ginger tackle monster ready to spoil your day on the 17th nov. WE will train him on raw meat for a week or two before hand.

by **Biltong** Wed 23 Oct 2013, 9:38 pm

You got some catching up to do mate, we liquidise beef for our 3 month old babies. Wink

By the time they cut their first teeth they get to eat it off the carcass.

by TJ Wed 23 Oct 2013, 9:54 pm

WE had to wean him off the porrage first. I believe he is partial to a chunk of biltong as a snack. If you complain too much we will give him some buckfast as well

by Guest Thu 24 Oct 2013, 4:56 pm

Wales definitely need to come out with the same ferocity at the breakdown as against England in the 6 Nations, stop the Boks from getting quick ball because they have shown they can run it these days.

by Mr Fishpaste Sun 27 Oct 2013, 10:41 am

There are going to be some interesting selection calls for Heyneke: JP Pietersen is available for national duty again, as is Jacque Fourie. Frans Steyn looked like he was getting a bit of his old passion for the game back in the Currie Cup final. Gio Aplon's had a great Currie Cup, as has SP Marais, but who do you leave out if you wanted to include any of these.

Lambie looked quite good in the final, and Goosen is fit again. McLeod had a great game on Saturday, but will he get a look in ahead of Pienaar or FDP?

Jannie is looking very tired these days, and needs a rest, but is Coenie really the best option as TH cover?

Finally, how epic will the lock combo of Eben Etzebeth and Pieter Steph Du Toit be! Watch out 2nd row, there's another Bakkies and Victor coming through the ranks.

by **Biltong** Sun 27 Oct 2013, 11:21 am

Pieter Steph du Toit has to be there, no doubt in my mind.

I would also add a home based scrumhalf.

by Taylorman Sun 27 Oct 2013, 4:06 pm

Mr Fishpaste wrote:There are going to be some interesting selection calls for Heyneke: JP Pietersen is available for national duty again, as is Jacque Fourie. Frans Steyn looked like he was getting a bit of his old passion for the game back in the Currie Cup final. Gio Aplon's had a great Currie Cup, as has SP Marais, but who do you leave out if you wanted to include any of these.

Lambie looked quite good in the final, and Goosen is fit again. McLeod had a great game on Saturday, but will he get a look in ahead of Pienaar or FDP?

Jannie is looking very tired these days, and needs a rest, but is Coenie really the best option as TH cover?

Finally, how epic will the lock combo of Eben Etzebeth and Pieter Steph Du Toit be! Watch out 2nd row, there's another Bakkies and Victor coming through the ranks.

Geez how ironic that those guys are all returning to play after SAs mini rennaisance. Probably the few most attacking players of the last few years...gotta be giving Meyer some nice options in the mobility stakes.

by Mr Fishpaste Sun 27 Oct 2013, 4:10 pm

It's a nice dilemma to have: who to choose from all the talent. Perhaps you NZ boys with your ample experience of this particular dilemma can advise...

by TJ Sun 27 Oct 2013, 4:13 pm

Biltong for lunch any of you scots fans?

by Luckless Pedestrian Mon 28 Oct 2013, 10:13 am

Am I right in thinking this will be the first time Wales have played the 'Boks since the World Cup?

by Dontheman Mon 28 Oct 2013, 10:26 am

Yes where Wales lost by a single point on a Hook penalty that went over the sticks and was adjudged out

by jimmyinthewell68 Mon 28 Oct 2013, 10:32 am

Dontheman wrote:Yes where Wales lost by a single point on a Hook penalty that went over the sticks and was adjudged out

Im glad we lost that game . we would have had Australia instead of Ireland

by **Biltong** Mon 28 Oct 2013, 11:14 am

Dontheman wrote:Yes where Wales lost by a single point on a Hook penalty that went over the sticks and was adjudged out

You still believe that kick went over?

The Supersport studio had Andre Watson as a guest the following Tuesday, he confirmed even if the referee could and did ask for a replay, the video evidence showed the kick missed.

But seeing that we are bringing out old stories, that penalty was awarded against Francois Hougaard, who played a ball from within his 22 and he was never offside. so the penalty should never have been.

by Luckless Pedestrian Mon 28 Oct 2013, 11:32 am

It's crazy though, when you think how often we've played the Wallabies in that time, that we haven't played the 'Boks once.

by Guest Mon 28 Oct 2013, 11:44 am

Biltong wrote:
Dontheman wrote:Yes where Wales lost by a single point on a Hook penalty that went over the sticks and was adjudged out

You still believe that kick went over?

The Supersport studio had Andre Watson as a guest the following Tuesday, he confirmed even if the referee could and did ask for a replay, the video evidence showed the kick missed.

But seeing that we are bringing out old stories, that penalty was awarded against Francois Hougaard, who played a ball from within his 22 and he was never offside. so the penalty should never have been.

I agree the kick didn't go over, sometimes people see what they want to see, I remember speaking to some guy who was really angry about the decision who was saying "IT WAS IN BY ABOUT A METER"...it wasn't mate.

by butterfingers Mon 28 Oct 2013, 12:29 pm

How many more problems could the Welsh have had at that WC censored

What with being disallowed 3 points and losing their capt...

by fa0019 Mon 28 Oct 2013, 2:22 pm

I hope that Frans Steyn is selected... after Saturdays car crash I can't see it not happening, he was the difference.

Will make things very different though. He is the premier (in fact only) second five-eigth in SA. It not only changes the game plan but the current captain plays inside centre.

You would think that JDV moving to 13 would be the obvious choice, it would help the defensive line certainly but his attacking prowes from 13 is questionable especially given his last 2 CC performances in that position (although that is probably in part to 1. fatigue and 2. being outside a plank in De Allende).

Would love to see a backline of

15. Le Roux
14. Aplon
13. De Villiers
12. Steyn
11. Engelbrecht (I still think he's best as a winger)
10. Lambie
9. van Zyl

They have to build for the world cup and that must start now. Blood some youngsters inbetween veterans and start playing what should be the best players come RWC15.

by Mr Fishpaste Mon 28 Oct 2013, 3:00 pm

Charl McLeod must be seething. Schreuder gets a bok call up ahead of him - after McLeod gave Schreuder a royal schooling on Saturday...

by **Biltong** Mon 28 Oct 2013, 3:04 pm

Supersport wrote:

28 October 2013, 15:17

Siyabonga “Scarra” Ntubeni is one of four uncapped players who will join three stalwarts of the Rugby World Cup winning squad of 2007, JP Pietersen, Jaque Fourie and Bakkies Botha, in 32-man Springbok squad for the forthcoming Castle Lager Outgoing Tour to Wales, Scotland and France.

It will be Botha and Fourie’s first involvement with the Springboks since the previous Rugby World Cup, in 2011 in New Zealand, while Pietersen is back in the squad for the first time this year.

For the 22-year-old Ntubeni, this tour will be his first involvement with the Springboks. The other three uncapped players in the touring party, Frans Malherbe, Pieter-Steph du Toit and Louis Schreuder, have been part of the national squad previously.

Gio Aplon, who was part of the squad in June, and Johan Goosen, who recently returned after seven months out injured, were recalled to the team.

“Scarra’s inclusion, like that of Gio, is also just-reward for continuous great form,” said Springbok coach Heyneke Meyer.

“He’s still young and will learn a lot from our two front-line hookers, who both rate among the best in the world, on this tour. I want to expose him to this environment and the Springbok ethos and I’m very excited to work with him.

“It will be great to have Bakkies, Jaque and JP in the squad – all of them are really excited to play for the Springboks again, they have heaps of experience and are world-class players.

“Pieter-Steph missed a large part of the season because of injury but has been exceptional since his return to the playing field last month, while we’ve always rated Frans very highly and look forward to working with him again.

“And Louis has always been on our radar – he is only 23, fits in with the way we want to play and was impressive when he worked with us in June. Since then he’s established himself as first-choice at DHL Western Province, starting in nine of their 12 Absa Currie Cup matches, and I believe he will learn a lot on this tour, improving even more.”

Meyer said the Springboks would like to build on their performances during the Castle Lager Rugby Championship in the tests against Wales (9 November in Cardiff), Scotland (17 November in Edinburgh) and France (23 November in Paris).

“We’ll play in conditions we’ve not yet encountered this year, but we want to keep our positive mind-set on the field and hopefully keep on scoring tries,” said Meyer. “We’re up for the challenge. I know the players are keen to finish 2013 off on a high.

“The Welsh have won the Six Nations the last two seasons. It’s our first test against them since the 2011 Rugby World Cup in New Zealand and they will be fired up at the Millennium Stadium.

“This year Scotland finished third in the Six Nations and in our two tests against them in the last two seasons, they have been a tough nut to crack. We’re not expecting anything different at Murrayfield this year.

“We finish off against France at the Stade de France, where the Springboks lifted the Webb Ellis Cup in 2007. But we’ve not beaten Les Bleus in France since 1997 and will have to be sharp and focused for this last test of a challenging season.”

Injuries to Arno Botha, Pierre Spies, Francois Hougaard and Jaco Taute meant they were not considered for selection.

THE SPRINGBOK SQUAD FOR THE CASTLE LAGER OUTGOING TOUR 2013:

Zane Kirchner Fullback 28 caps 25 points 29 years
Gio Aplon Fullback/Wing 17 caps 25 points 31 years
Willie le Roux Fullback/Wing 9 caps 15 points 24 years

JP Pietersen Wing 48 caps 70points 27 years
Bryan Habana Wing 92 caps 265 points 30 years
JJ Engelbrecht Centre/Wing 10 caps 20 points 24 years
Jaque Fourie Centre 69 caps 160 points 32 years
Jean de Villiers (captain) Centre 93 caps 120 points 32 years
Jan Serfontein Centre 9 caps 5 points 20 years

Morné Steyn Flyhalf 51 caps 618 points 29 years
Johan Goosen Flyhalf 4 caps 8 points 21 years
Pat Lambie Flyhalf/Fullback 29 caps 55 points 23 years

Fourie du Preez Scrumhalf 65 caps 70 points 31 years
Ruan Pienaar Scrumhalf 71 caps 130 points 29 years
Louis Schreuder Scrumhalf 0 caps 0 points 23 years

Duane Vermeulen No 8 13 caps 5 points 27 years
Siya Kolisi Loose forward 8 caps 0 points 22 years
Francois Louw Loose forward 25 caps 25 points 28 years
Willem Alberts Loose forward 27 caps 30 points 28 years
Marcell Coetzee Loose forward 14 caps 5 points 22 years

Pieter-Steph du Toit Lock 0 caps 0 points 21 years
Eben Etzebeth Lock 20 caps 0 points 22 years
Flip van der Merwe Lock 31 caps 5 points 28 years
Bakkies Botha Lock 76 caps 35 points 34 years

Jannie du Plessis Prop 51 caps 5 points 30 years
Frans Malherbe Prop 0 caps 0 points 22 years
Coenie Oosthuizen Prop 11 caps 5 points 24 years
Gurthrö Steenkamp Prop 46 caps 30 points 32 years
Tendai Mtawarira Prop 50 caps 10 points 28 years

Bismarck du Plessis Hooker 54 caps 40 points 29 years
Adriaan Strauss Hooker 30 caps 25 points 27 years
Scarra Ntubeni Hooker 0 caps 0 points 22 years

by fa0019 Mon 28 Oct 2013, 3:27 pm

In terms of talent, the finest player SA has produced in the pro era, a clutch test player, the player who has been the difference for the last 7 years in test terms, just 2 games back from injury sure but already was the best player in the Currie Cup final, apparently considered... and ignored.

amazing.

by SecretFly Mon 28 Oct 2013, 3:28 pm

Three SA wins

by BamBam Mon 28 Oct 2013, 4:46 pm

fa0019 wrote:In terms of talent, the finest player SA has produced in the pro era, a clutch test player, the player who has been the difference for the last 7 years in test terms, just 2 games back from injury sure but already was the best player in the Currie Cup final, apparently considered... and ignored.

amazing.

Who?

Edit - Apologies if I'm being rather thick!

by fa0019 Mon 28 Oct 2013, 4:58 pm

BamBam wrote:
fa0019 wrote:In terms of talent, the finest player SA has produced in the pro era, a clutch test player, the player who has been the difference for the last 7 years in test terms, just 2 games back from injury sure but already was the best player in the Currie Cup final, apparently considered... and ignored.

amazing.
Who?

You can't tell?

From my post you could observe its a guy who is South African, who played in the Currie Cup final on the weekend (and was standout), has just come back from a long injury, has been a test player since 2006 and has been the bedrock of the test team since.

Can't be many candidates surely.

by BamBam Mon 28 Oct 2013, 5:02 pm

From looking at the team sheets, I would guess Francois Steyn, but I didn't see the game, and wasn't actually aware that he was injured previously!

by fa0019 Mon 28 Oct 2013, 5:07 pm

sorry Bambam, yes it was Frans Steyn who I was speaking about. Didn't mean to be cryptic. If you look at his whole career, when he plays SA have a significantly higher win percentage then when he doesn't, notably against the big 5 sides also.

Been injured for most of the season. Not sure on the reasons why he's been left out whether Meyer wanted him to recover properly or not.... although he didn't say he wasn't considered due to the injury.

by **Biltong** Mon 28 Oct 2013, 5:18 pm

Steyn has been in very poor form, he was not the best player in the final, that honour went to Pieter Steph du Toit.

Steyn has to provehis fitness and hunger to play Bok rugby again.

by BamBam Mon 28 Oct 2013, 5:21 pm

fa0019 wrote:sorry Bambam, yes it was Frans Steyn who I was speaking about. Didn't mean to be cryptic. If you look at his whole career, when he plays SA have a significantly higher win percentage then when he doesn't, notably against the big 5 sides also.

Been injured for most of the season. Not sure on the reasons why he's been left out whether Meyer wanted him to recover properly or not.... although he didn't say he wasn't considered due to the injury.

Ha, no worries FA .. Steyn is a great player for sure, will definitely take pressure off the fly half if Lambie does get a start there.

I really like Engelbrecht, but many don't rate him as an OC, as JDV (eventually) winds down, would love to see him play outside Steyn for a couple of games as they could be a great centre combo

by fa0019 Mon 28 Oct 2013, 5:22 pm

He was in poor form before he got injured BB, but that was months ago. Du Toit played well but was not the difference. Steyn IMO was and its what many journalists have been saying.

Its like lauding Ntubeni.... good season performance... but he won't hack it on test scene.

Class doesn't die in that position.

by fa0019 Mon 28 Oct 2013, 5:25 pm

BamBam wrote:
fa0019 wrote:sorry Bambam, yes it was Frans Steyn who I was speaking about. Didn't mean to be cryptic. If you look at his whole career, when he plays SA have a significantly higher win percentage then when he doesn't, notably against the big 5 sides also.

Been injured for most of the season. Not sure on the reasons why he's been left out whether Meyer wanted him to recover properly or not.... although he didn't say he wasn't considered due to the injury.
Ha, no worries FA .. Steyn is a great player for sure, will definitely take pressure off the fly half if Lambie does get a start there.

I really like Engelbrecht, but many don't rate him as an OC, as JDV (eventually) winds down, would love to see him play outside Steyn for a couple of games as they could be a great centre combo

unconvinced myself on Engelbrecht... (maybe because we at WP let him go for nothing a few years back Wink

). I see him more of a winger and for me chaps like Frans Hougaard is better (for that type of winger utilised).

by fa0019 Mon 28 Oct 2013, 5:27 pm

thought it was the death of Schalk Burger mind... he's lost it I'm afraid to say.

He was being smashed by younger guys and just can't cut it anymore.

Time to run to Europe, earn a pension before he becomes surplus to requirements at even the worst European clubs.

by The Saint Mon 28 Oct 2013, 6:46 pm

Big news that Botha, Fourie and Pietersen coming back in. They were 3 of SA's best players for many years, and will be coming in to strengthen a very good Bok squad. I'd much rather we were playing SA in our second fixture, we are usually rusty in our opening game and we can't afford to be even slightly rusty here.

by TJ Mon 28 Oct 2013, 7:54 pm

Soften them up for us will ya?

by Dontheman Tue 29 Oct 2013, 4:02 pm

The Saint wrote:Big news that Botha, Fourie and Pietersen coming back in. They were 3 of SA's best players for many years, and will be coming in to strengthen a very good Bok squad. I'd much rather we were playing SA in our second fixture, we are usually rusty in our opening game and we can't afford to be even slightly rusty here.

Sorry to harp on about RWC 2011 but it was SA first up and we nearly one that won and I was only making the point earlier that SA won by the skin of their teeth not that I begrudged them the win. By the way Bilt why no Morne? Did nothing wrong against NZ.

by **Biltong** Tue 29 Oct 2013, 4:17 pm

Morne is in the squad mate, he will most likely start all three tests.

by Guest Tue 29 Oct 2013, 5:22 pm

Ugh, a lock pairing of Etzebeth/du Toit and Botha, great.

by **Biltong** Tue 29 Oct 2013, 6:11 pm

IronMike wrote:Ugh, a lock pairing of Etzebeth/du Toit and Botha, great.

Can be formidable, eh?

by kingraf Tue 29 Oct 2013, 6:21 pm

Jacque Fourie is back. premier 13 in world rugby, when on. haven't seen him in Japan, but I hope it goes well.

by Dontheman Tue 29 Oct 2013, 7:36 pm

Thanks Bilt

by The Saint Thu 31 Oct 2013, 5:07 pm

Jannie Du Plessis is officially out of this tour. Did you know this already? I only just read it.

by **Biltong** Thu 31 Oct 2013, 5:09 pm

Yeah, he is replaced by Lourens Adriaanse.

I think this is good for SA, we can test Malherbe and Lourens in Europe and Jannie gets a well deserved rest, he has played every possible game on the last two years.

by Taylorman Thu 31 Oct 2013, 5:47 pm

Gotta be said that from japan straight into test level after two years away just doesn't work. The ABs wouldn't touch a scenario like that but given its the AIs Meyer will probably get away with it. Unless Fouries in the picture for next years RC and wcup xv this selections a little weird. I mean what's to gain from that other than a win they should get anyway and further denying valuable NH match experience for a centre that would be useful in 2015.

by **Biltong** Thu 31 Oct 2013, 6:14 pm

I kinda feel the same way. I find it difficult to accept players who don't ply their trade in SA, for me it is a question of commitment.

by Taylorman Thu 31 Oct 2013, 7:31 pm

Part of it will be to ensure the win, part to share the experience with the le roux type up and comers so there's real gains short term and Meyer is developing both players and strategy so a fall back to some secure playmakers has its merits. There's more dimensions to this book side now and would be great to see the old jdv fourie pairing again with jdv clearly now the senior player of the pair. Its odd but probably understandable. Winning the AIs outright might just be Meyers primary goal so nothing wrong with that I suppose. In all...interesting for sure.

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