New European Rugby cup (or whatever it is called) - Qualification agreed

First topic message reminder :

I have heard it is:

6 French
6 English
7 Pro12 (1 guaranteed from each country, 3 on league position)
1 play-off (7th English and 7th French team)

Trying to find out is correct as we speak

profitius wrote:I read an good take on last weeks unions announcement. Gerry Thornley reckons the unions were calling the Franglos bluff. Up to now it has been made out that the unions are the ones not budging but now the ball is in the franglos court.

gerry thornley? was he the journalist referred to here as the mouthpiece of the IRFU, and "Goebbels" in the same sentence, by an irish poster?

Interesting - they have the Sky Heineken Cup games here:

Clermont v Quins 187,000 (Sun. 2.30pm)
Saracens v Toulouse: 174,000 (Fri night)
Leinster v Castre on SKY UK: 171,000 ( Sat 3.30)
Northampton v. Ospreys: 146,000 (Sun. 12.30)
Munster v. Gloucester: 133,000 (Sat 6pm)

Interesting to see that over the 2 weekends, Leicester didn't make the Top 10 in the UK while a poor Edinburgh v Munster game at the worst time of the day possible (90K).

Exeter v Cardiff pulled in 190K.

Its really odd that a big club like Leicester isn't a bigger draw!

Sin é wrote:Interesting - they have the Sky Heineken Cup games here:

Clermont v Quins 187,000 (Sun. 2.30pm)
Saracens v Toulouse: 174,000 (Fri night)
Leinster v Castre on SKY UK: 171,000 ( Sat 3.30)
Northampton v. Ospreys: 146,000 (Sun. 12.30)
Munster v. Gloucester: 133,000 (Sat 6pm)

Interesting to see the Irish & French team games so popular in the UK!

must be all those french expats in london tuning in to watch their teams

Come SKY with Me!
Come SKY, come SKYaway!

Mystir, I never mention SKY.  I could go a whole day debating this issue and not mention SKY - SEEING IS BELIEVING - once.  
And I don't think I like you making the accusation that I'd slyly try to get a SKY - CLEARER HORIZONS, CLEARER VISION - allusion into every sentence here on this SKY v some other broadcaster debate.

So quit this instant and promise never to accuse me of supporting SKY! - PERFECTLY BLUE AND SERVING YOU - again!

quinsforever wrote:

Sin é wrote:Interesting - they have the Sky Heineken Cup games here:

Clermont v Quins 187,000 (Sun. 2.30pm)
Saracens v Toulouse: 174,000 (Fri night)
Leinster v Castre on SKY UK: 171,000 ( Sat 3.30)
Northampton v. Ospreys: 146,000 (Sun. 12.30)
Munster v. Gloucester: 133,000 (Sat 6pm)

Interesting to see the Irish & French team games so popular in the UK!

must be all those french expats in london tuning in to watch their teams

Leinster v Ospreys got more viewers (157K to 146K) than Ospreys v Northampton  

SecretFly wrote:Come SKY with Me!
Come SKY, come SKYaway!

Mystir, I never mention SKY.  I could go a whole day debating this issue and not mention SKY - SEEING IS BELIEVING - once.  
And I don't think I like you making the accusation that I'd slyly try to get a SKY - CLEARER HORIZONS, CLEARER VISION - allusion into every sentence here on this SKY v some other broadcaster debate.

So quit this instant and promise never to accuse me of supporting SKY! - PERFECTLY BLUE AND SERVING YOU - again!

no.

You love sky, you love sky, you love sky, you love sky

quinsforever wrote:

profitius wrote:I read an good take on last weeks unions announcement. Gerry Thornley reckons the unions were calling the Franglos bluff. Up to now it has been made out that the unions are the ones not budging but now the ball is in the franglos court.

gerry thornley? was he the journalist referred to here as the mouthpiece of the IRFU, and "Goebbels" in the same sentence, by an irish poster?

I'll tell you what Thornley is.  He's the kind of knowing, intelligent, insightful journalist that can sniff out a perfect 15 players for any Irish International side.  Anytime.  Anywhere.  He's never wrong - never (I of course exaggerate for effect but not by much!).  He always smells out the truth behind the injury smokescreens and such.

So, in other words, if Thornley says somethng, you can be certain one of his IRFU spies in the closet, so to speak, are moving his lips for him.

Now you might think then that he's only giving out IRFU propaganda ............. but........... there is the little thing that you have to keep in mind about what I said above.  Thornley loves to be right. Hates to be wrong.

And having said all that!...it's as clear as a clear SKY that the dogs on the street know the ERC announcement was designed to call PRL's bluff and that nobody needs Thornley to guess that.

yeah, coz their bluffs really been called so far...prl have had to concede so much as a result of all the bluff-calling going back to 2012 by ERC and the unions which has all worked out so stunningly.

unless by calling someones bluff you mean caving in to most of their demand? in which case i agree.

So Quins, why do you think no one bothers to watch one of England top teams in the Heineken Cup. If they are not going to watch them in the Heineken Cup, they sure are not going to watch them in the Aviva thingy.

BT has been sold a pup. It looks like the Rabo games might be very popular in England. Fairplay to Sky for spotting that.

quinsforever wrote:yeah, coz their bluffs really been called so far...prl have had to concede so much as a result of all the bluff-calling going back to 2012 by ERC and the unions which has all worked out so stunningly.

unless by calling someones bluff you mean caving in to most of their demand? in which case i agree.

Relax quins. You've overrun yourself again on what you think I said. I didn't say anyone bluffed anyone (that is to be decided) I did say many people believe the object of the announcement was to call PRL's bluff.

Who falls for bluffs is not my concern in this case only those calling them.

Plus..we'll see who does most caving in at the conclusion. You can't 'agree' with me on thin air.... even if it is SKY - BREATHE IT IN - air

Sin é wrote:So Quins, why do you think no one bothers to watch one of England top teams in the Heineken Cup. If they are not going to watch them in the Heineken Cup, they sure are not going to watch them in the Aviva thingy.

BT has been sold a pup. It looks like the Rabo games might be very popular in England. Fairplay to Sky for spotting that.

must be because everyone in england is switching to BT in anticipation of next years RCC

there, i've made a statement which is as ridiculous as yours. how liberating.

quinsforever wrote:

Sin é wrote:So Quins, why do you think no one bothers to watch one of England top teams in the Heineken Cup. If they are not going to watch them in the Heineken Cup, they sure are not going to watch them in the Aviva thingy.

BT has been sold a pup. It looks like the Rabo games might be very popular in England. Fairplay to Sky for spotting that.

must be because everyone in england is switching to BT in anticipation of next years RCC

there, i've made a statement which is as ridiculous as yours. how liberating.

\

Ah seriously, how can Edinburgh v Munster make the Top 10 in the UK market and Leicester can't (for two weekends running)?

We are told continually that its the English & French market is responsible for generating all the TV cash.

quinsforever wrote:

profitius wrote:I read an good take on last weeks unions announcement. Gerry Thornley reckons the unions were calling the Franglos bluff. Up to now it has been made out that the unions are the ones not budging but now the ball is in the franglos court.

gerry thornley? was he the journalist referred to here as the mouthpiece of the IRFU, and "Goebbels" in the same sentence, by an irish poster?

Like him or loath him, as secretfly said, he usually has inside knowledge.

It should be interesting now. The unions have given the PRL everything the PRL asked them for know it probably puts the PRL in a difficult spot. Of course everyone thought that was that, the unions had caved and the contract just needed to be signed but it looks like the unions has only called the PRL bluff. Now it might be up to the PRL to make the next move.

And as for the Welsh regions. They might be favouring the new competition but thats far from a done deal.

The PRL/LNR have been quiet lately. They're probably working behind the scenes, thinking up their next move.

Sin é wrote:

quinsforever wrote:

Sin é wrote:So Quins, why do you think no one bothers to watch one of England top teams in the Heineken Cup. If they are not going to watch them in the Heineken Cup, they sure are not going to watch them in the Aviva thingy.

BT has been sold a pup. It looks like the Rabo games might be very popular in England. Fairplay to Sky for spotting that.

must be because everyone in england is switching to BT in anticipation of next years RCC

there, i've made a statement which is as ridiculous as yours. how liberating.

\

Ah seriously, how can Edinburgh v Munster make the Top 10 in the UK market and Leicester can't (for two weekends running)?

We are told continually that its the English & French market is responsible for generating all the TV cash.

Surprising though it may seem, English rugby is more than just Leicester. I notice that in the figures you've quoted the top two games were English clubs playing French clubs, despite the Leinster game being shown in the prime Saturday afternoon slot.

Two weekends is a tiny sample and trying to draw conclusions from it is meaningless. Even if we had a bigger sample, you'd need complete data, some big computers and a few men with PhDs to tease out from it the influence of various factors (time slot, likely competitiveness of the game, nationality of the viewer vs nationality of the team, key players).

And even then, you've got nothing that will tell you the answer to the critical question: how many viewers in England and France watch a game - regardless of who is playing - because it's in a tournament that English or French teams are in. You can't answer it because you've got no equivalent tournament with no local interest in it.

Still, quoting a few numbers that vaguely support your point and focusing on two or three isolated data points, most of which you haven't provided while pretending it's a half decent argument takes some skill. Have you considered a career in politics?

Poorfour

And even then, you've got nothing that will tell you the answer to the critical question: how many viewers in England and France watch a game - regardless of who is playing - because it's in a tournament that English or French teams are in. You can't answer it because you've got no equivalent tournament with no local interest in it.

Don't quite get that point, Poorfour.  I'm certain it's just me not picking it up clearly, but maybe you could help me out with the meaning.

Poorfour wrote:

Sin é wrote:

quinsforever wrote:

Sin é wrote:So Quins, why do you think no one bothers to watch one of England top teams in the Heineken Cup. If they are not going to watch them in the Heineken Cup, they sure are not going to watch them in the Aviva thingy.

BT has been sold a pup. It looks like the Rabo games might be very popular in England. Fairplay to Sky for spotting that.

must be because everyone in england is switching to BT in anticipation of next years RCC

there, i've made a statement which is as ridiculous as yours. how liberating.

\

Ah seriously, how can Edinburgh v Munster make the Top 10 in the UK market and Leicester can't (for two weekends running)?

We are told continually that its the English & French market is responsible for generating all the TV cash.

Surprising though it may seem, English rugby is more than just Leicester. I notice that in the figures you've quoted the top two games were English clubs playing French clubs, despite the  Leinster game being shown in the prime Saturday afternoon slot.

Two weekends is a tiny sample and trying to draw conclusions from it is meaningless. Even if we had a bigger sample, you'd need complete data, some big computers and a few men with PhDs to tease out from it the influence of various factors (time slot, likely competitiveness of the game, nationality of the viewer vs nationality of the team, key players).

And even then, you've got nothing that will tell you the answer to the critical question: how many viewers in England and France watch a game - regardless of who is playing - because it's in a tournament that English or French teams are in. You can't answer it because you've got no equivalent tournament with no local interest in it.

Still, quoting a few numbers that vaguely support your point and focusing on two or three isolated data points, most of which you haven't provided while pretending it's a half decent argument takes some skill. Have you considered a career in politics?

well tbh he argues against the english market- with figures from the english market. Its not a valid argument at all. It doesnt matter what game the english market watches as long they are watched.

However viewing figures for rugby are not good full stop. One of the reasons for this is probably due to sky in the first place. They offer a high cost package that is geared and priced high due to its main sport- Football.

many rugby fans won't pay out the money for sky because they feel cheated by having to pay so much extra to have football!

BT getting involved offers rugby fans(that invariably dont care about football) a much lower cost solution..

Scrumpy wrote:

Its free all the time if you sign up to BT broadband!  

I don't live a hundred miles away from you, Scrumpy (only about fifteen miles, in fact) but I will not be getting BT broadband any time soon because quite simply it is rubbish. It is slow, unreliable, and more costly than my current provider. One of the things that has annoyed me about the whole BT - get BT Sports free with BT Broadband - is that those of us in rural areas are not getting a reasonable service despite the vast amount of taxpayers money being poured into the "faster broadband for rural areas" project.

I wouldn't mind if I lived far out in the stick, but i am only a few hundred YARDS from a BT exchange.

A third of the population has bt bb. Which is huge so it can't be that bad .

However you want get me to give up on my 120 mg fiber optic...

so free rugby in slow motion?

No bt bb is fine to stream bt sport on a decent res. you stream highish quality of a 3G network.

talk about a climbdown from his earlier defiant rhetoric...lapussy's latest...

THE INTERNATIONAL RUGBY Board (IRB) chairman, Bernard Lapasset, has criticized the proposed new Rugby Champions Cup, saying that rugby governance must remain equal and shared.
The Frenchman’s words offer hope that the English and French clubs will not get the controlling power they appear to crave in the new European competition, given that the IRB must give the go-ahead for any such tournament to take place.
Speaking at the pool draw for the Women’s Rugby World Cup 2014 in Paris, Lapasset stressed that all interested parties in European club rugby must share governance of the club game, rather than the Ligue Nationale de Rugby (LNR) and PremierRugby Ltd. (PRL) taking majority control.
There are excesses in the their positions. There can’t be one league or another who rules the rugby world. The rugby world must be governed with balance and with respect for each other.”
The IRB chief called for the various parties involved to “take the time to reflect” and to “keep cool heads” during the discussions and negotiations. Lapasset also criticized the PRL and LNR’s propositions as “a bit distorted”. The 66-year-old told Rugbyrama the Rugby Champions Cup is “not necessarily” credible yet.
“I think we need to keep working on it and therefore, I will give time to its defenders to put forward more constructive ideas, which can be used to gather rather than divide.”
Lapasset also spoke briefly about his concerns over the television deal the Premiership clubs have done with BT Sport in relation to the TV rights for the proposed tournament.
There have been somewhat hasty positions taken on the part of the British from the start, with these so-called contract signings.”
Calming words from the IRB chairman perhaps, but more time is hardly likely to produce a solution given what has already happened. Under current rugby laws, the new competition will need to gain the approval of the national unions and the IRB in order to take official existence, so there is come comfort to be taken in that regard.

http://thescore.thejournal.ie/irb-rugby-champions-cup-1153420-Oct2013/

Equal and Shared.

SecretFly wrote:Equal and Shared.

SF, the point is to compare this statement with what he said a few weeks ago. light years apart. shows he's lapussy and not laballs.

Wait for the end.

'Equal' and 'Shared' means what they say. McCafferty isn't interested in either word by his published statements

So wait.

yawn. ignore my point all you want. LAPUSSY HAS HAD HIS BLUFF CALLED and adjusted his stance accordingly. just like FFR will re LNR only playing within an ERC competition.

the delusionists can keep clinging to the "someone is going to save us" mantra, but it isnt happening. no matter what goebbels says in the irish times...

as you say, wait for the end. the waiting has worked for me so far.

All is well
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDAmPIq29ro

Yawn?  

Yeah, I know the waiting is tiring but them's the cards dealt and all that....  

So I repeat  .. wait.  You have the story told before the telling.  There are more than Lapasset who mouthed off in public with brash and ballsy declarations that everything they wanted they'd get - all of it, total club buy out of European rugby.

So, you might be eating some of McCafferty's words by the time it's all over too, Quins.  And if that happens then tonight's "Lapussy" comments might sound a tad premature.

So wait before pouncing on who you think won the war. That's wisest.

Lapasset also spoke briefly about his concerns over the television deal the Premiership clubs have done with BT Sport in relation to the TV rights for the proposed tournament.

"There have been somewhat hasty positions taken on the part of the British from the start, with these so-called contract signings.”

'so called contract signings'? What can he mean by that? Hasty? Why hasty? Maybe PRL have made a complete horlicks of things. I do hope so

Quinners, Lapassy has to think about the peace after the war  

 

doctor_grey wrote:All is well
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDAmPIq29ro

Keep calm and carry on....

Sin é wrote:Quinners, Lapassy has to think about the peace after the war  

agree. in this fight he (and irb) is the tail not the dog. a few weeks ago though, many were looking to the irb as some kind or enforcer of erc status quo.

Munchkin wrote:Lapasset also spoke briefly about his concerns over the television deal the Premiership clubs have done with BT Sport in relation to the TV rights for the proposed tournament.

"There have been somewhat hasty positions taken on the part of the British from the start, with these so-called contract signings.”

'so called contract signings'? What can he mean by that? Hasty? Why hasty? Maybe PRL have made a complete horlicks of things. I do hope so

so-called presumably because he hasnt seen them? talk about a non-statement.

Lapasset actually refers to the 'British', not the English.
So, what does he actually mean?
He is inscrutable, just like Confucius.

quinsforever wrote:

Sin é wrote:Quinners, Lapassy has to think about the peace after the war  

agree. in this fight he (and irb) is the tail not the dog. a few weeks ago though, many were looking to the irb as some kind or enforcer of erc status quo.

Sorry to break it to you, but it is the victors who have to manage the peace.

Sin é wrote:

quinsforever wrote:

Sin é wrote:Quinners, Lapassy has to think about the peace after the war  

agree. in this fight he (and irb) is the tail not the dog. a few weeks ago though, many were looking to the irb as some kind or enforcer of erc status quo.

Sorry to break it to you, but it is the victors who have to manage the peace.

So, the IRB are going to "win?"  

doctor_grey wrote:Lapasset actually refers to the 'British', not the English.
So, what does he actually mean?
He is inscrutable, just like Confucius.

This is very clear evidence that the Scots, and the Welsh, have been allied with those nasty PRL, and their devious scheme, from the beginning! Fact!!


Read it in tomorrows Guardian......

Glad that's all cleared up Munchkin! I think I need to turn in....

stub wrote:

Sin é wrote:

quinsforever wrote:

Sin é wrote:Quinners, Lapassy has to think about the peace after the war  

agree. in this fight he (and irb) is the tail not the dog. a few weeks ago though, many were looking to the irb as some kind or enforcer of erc status quo.

Sorry to break it to you, but it is the victors who have to manage the peace.

So, the IRB are going to "win?"  

Yes, the guardians of rugby are going to win.

stub wrote:Glad that's all cleared up Munchkin! I think I need to turn in....

Yep, clear as mud, as is all the rest. A goodnight to you kind sir  

Sin, that's grand to hear.

Sin é wrote:

quinsforever wrote:

Sin é wrote:Quinners, Lapassy has to think about the peace after the war  

agree. in this fight he (and irb) is the tail not the dog. a few weeks ago though, many were looking to the irb as some kind or enforcer of erc status quo.

Sorry to break it to you, but it is the victors who have to manage the peace.

so the unions are going to furl up the white flag then? glad to hear you have such confidence in the folk who have played such a blinder so far buddy.

quinsforever wrote:

Sin é wrote:

quinsforever wrote:

Sin é wrote:Quinners, Lapassy has to think about the peace after the war  

agree. in this fight he (and irb) is the tail not the dog. a few weeks ago though, many were looking to the irb as some kind or enforcer of erc status quo.

Sorry to break it to you, but it is the victors who have to manage the peace.

so the unions are going to furl up the white flag then? glad to hear you have such confidence in the folk who have played such a blinder so far buddy.

The RFU really seem to have been the Heros in all this.

If it wasn't for them we would end up with some god awful PRL run catastrophe

Thornley in today's Irish Times:

IRB chairman Bernard Lapasset’s comments look a significant development in rift

Well-placed sources maintain Pierre Camou is working assiduously toward saving the ERC-run tournament

Major doubts still surround the future of the Heineken Cup, but recent comments from IRB chairman Bernard Lapasset sound encouraging.

Major doubts still surround the future of the Heineken Cup, but recent comments from IRB chairman Bernard Lapasset sound encouraging.

All quiet on the western European front. At least the various parties in the ongoing rift over the future of European club rugby have not been hurling insults at each other of late, which suggests further dialogue is continuing apace behind the scene. Nonetheless, notions that the respective Unions have made a sizeable climbdown in the face of demands and threats by the Anglo-French club alliance also appear wide of the mark.

On foot of the six Unions and Federations from England, France, Ireland, Wales, Scotland and Italy agreeing to tournament format and meritocratic qualification at ERC-appointed mediation talks, by far the most significant development were the comments of IRB Chairman Bernard Lapasset at last week’s draw for the 2014 Women’s World Cup. They are particularly significant as they would assuredly have also followed discussions between Lapasset and Pierre Camou, president of the French Federation, a position Lapasset held from 1991 to 2008.

They were also significant as they were the first comments yet by the IRB chairman on this row. Although he was largely conciliatory and diplomatic, Lapasset said PRL and LNR proposals for the so-called Rugby Champions Cup were “not particularly credible”, adding: “Neither one league nor the other should govern the world of rugby. It should be ruled through a balance and respect for each other.” Calling on the parties to “take time to reflect” and “to keep a cool head” Lapasset said he would leave time to all parties to think and talk constructively to allow for a coming together.


Hold centre stage
Given the November Test window will now hold centre stage, and consume time for many involved in running the game at international level, even if the ERC-appointed mediator Graeme Mew finds an agreed time for further mediation talks, it seems we may now be entering a ‘time-out’ in this tortuous process.

In publicly agreeing to the PRL and LNR demands for tournament reform, the Unions have also called the Anglo-French bluff. For if that was all the PRL wanted when they gave two years’ notice to withdraw from the Heineken Cup, they’d be back in the fold now. That they have subsequently shifted the goalposts and demanded that the ERC be disbanded merely confirms that that the PRL, and LNR president Paul Goze, were never looking for reform but were merely making a grab for power.

Camou a key player
Camou remains a key player in this saga, not least as FFR backing is enshrined in French law, and Lapasset’s comments can be interpreted as a signal of Camou’s continued resistance to the Champions Cup and ongoing loyalty to an ERC-run tournament. Well-placed sources maintain he is working assiduously toward saving the latter, and will ensure French participation in the Heineken Cup or an offshoot of that tournament, whether it be a frontline entry from the leading Top 14 clubs or not.

As with the Anglo-French axis, now seemingly buttressed by the Welsh regions, for how long the six respective Unions and Federations remain as one is also a moot point, because the next round of mediation talks will have to address the much trickier obstacles of governance and then, following that, the elephants in the room that are the conflicting Sky and BT deals.

Whereas BT’s resident rugby pundits such as Austin Healy have been touting the Rugby Champions Cup, both Sky and its pundits have remained tight-lipped, but it is understood that Sky are desperately keen to retain the Heineken Cup.

It also has to be said that the English clubs have taken a huge gamble in jettisoning Sky, who did so much to promote the English club game, by throwing in their lot with BT, who are a long way behind Sky in the sports broadcasting market. Of course, it is somewhat trite to cite figures such as the 8,000 viewers for the Clare Balding Show on October 11th, or the 13,000 viewers for the two Dannys, Baker and Kelly, on one Friday night. But like ESPN, ITV Digital and Setanta before them, BT will have to be patient and sustain heavy financial losses before one day becoming any kind of a rival to Sky. Perhaps their pockets are deeper. Perhaps their shareholders will be patient. But it remains a huge gamble by Mark McCafferty and PRL.

Bruce Craig’s threat
Nor should the Unions and the IREB be cowed by Bruce Craig’s threat to take them to the European courts for restraint of trade, any less than his forecast/threat of “financial oblivion” for the Celts and Italians. Notwithstanding the existing Sky contract which had been renewed by the ERC board, at which the PRL were represented, the EU permits Uefa to collectively sell Champions League rights because it maximised income that was subsequently distributed across all of European football (just as ERC does). The EU insisted on various provisions to maximise competition among broadcasters but agreed that this breach of competition law was both legitimately justified and proportionate.

Indeed, with PRL’s BT deal in mind, the various European Unions and the IRB might have a very strong case if they were to accuse the breakaway clubs of anti-competitive behaviour.

The most feasible outcome remains an IRB-sanctioned competition, perhaps with some concession to the English and French clubs. A breakaway competition without collective selling of the media rights appears far less feasible.

Rumours of the ERC’s imminent demise, like that of the Heineken Cup, may yet prove premature, but English media reports presenting the Rugby Champions Cup appear even more premature, much like any impending sight of a resolution to this crisis. This one is still set to run, and run, and run.


First published: Tue, Nov 5, 2013, 12:00

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/international/irb-chairman-bernard-lapasset-s-comments-look-a-significant-development-in-rift-1.1583615?page=2

i.e. Nothing new.

But yo cann't help but love a bit of the ole Blarney.

Olé Blarney - is he that new Spanish winger? Lightening quick, wonderful step?

Portnoy, we were promised the full details of this new competition (structure, financing, teams etc) at the end of October. Why haven't the PRL delivered on that?

When did PRL agree to send 606v2 full details of the new comp?  

Sin é wrote:Portnoy, we were promised the full details of this new competition (structure, financing, teams etc) at the end of October. Why haven't the PRL delivered on that?

Because there whole schtick is just bluster. Fairly obvious bluster at this stage.

Scrumpy wrote:When did PRL agree to send 606v2 full details of the new comp?  

McCafferty was spouting about this a few weeks back in his mouthpieces (Telegraph & Guardian).