Nadal's "coaching" demon

First topic message reminder :

Latest in a series of accusations, this distracts from an otherwise stellar career that Nadal has had so far.

“We all know, players and umpires, that Toni is always trying to help Rafa. That’s normal. That’s part of the game. But when it’s too much, it’s too much."

It was a tough match, which could have gone either way.

The interesting comment from Toni…

Toni Nadal does not deny that he offers advice from the box. He says the rules against coaching from the box are antiquated and need to be changed. “I think all the sports make an evolution,” he said. “It’s not natural that you pay a coach and this coach travels to Australia and to New York to watch his player and he can’t say nothing.”

is rather strange (the highlighted part). There has been a fine levied in the past at Wimbledon, lest Uncle Toni forget. Also, I did not know UT was being paid.

http://tennis.si.com/2013/11/06/stanislas-wawrinka-rafael-nadal-coaching/

Ive heard the one about the Swiss, the Spaniard, the Serb and the Scot it must be a sequel  

JuliusHMarx wrote: Have you heard the one about the Swiss, the Spaniard and the Serb....

The one about the Swiss roll over, the Spaniard that reigned on the planes and the Serb with Balkans of steel?

I don't think they should allow coaching as for the many reasons they have specified.

I am also not a fan of the on-court presence of Davis Cup captains either!

Haddie - are you saying that Rafa expressly in his book sets out his view on whether receiving coaching from Toni is cheating and condemns it? If so, I am surprised I haven't seen that reported.

The simple fact is that if Rafa said to Toni he regarded coaching during the match as cheating and told him to stop as it was of no assistance and, in fact, hindered his performance as he was stressed about it then Toni would surely stop. Any coach, let alone a family member, would only provide regular coaching during a match if it was implicitly sanctioned by the player.

Coaches should be made to sit at the top of the arena.

They have enough time to practice and guide their players off court, that during play their input should be banned.

Also coaches should be made to sit after every game on different corners of the arena, so they player can't find them and look at them after every crap point.

Born Slippy wrote:Haddie - are you saying that Rafa expressly in his book sets out his view on whether receiving coaching from Toni is cheating and condemns it? If so, I am surprised I haven't seen that reported.

The simple fact is that if Rafa said to Toni he regarded coaching during the match as cheating and told him to stop as it was of no assistance and, in fact, hindered his performance as he was stressed about it then Toni would surely stop. Any coach, let alone a family member, would only provide regular coaching during a match if it was implicitly sanctioned by the player.

I am not sure that it  was expressly the words he said but it was that obvious to me that Rafa "tolerates" much from his Uncle.When he wrote that book he and Toni had a bit of a falling out as I understand. He was most definitely putting Toni in his place. But as I have already mentioned about Toni´s background.. his own father has said he was the most difficult of his sons. He is very opinionated and having studied philosophy at University believes his way is the right way. Warwrinka has indicated that he "cracked the code" that coaches have with their player so that proves to me that to some degree it happens with others. and I have seen it myself. just that Toni is so outrageously up front with it
I am not defending any of it  BS frankly Im against on court coaching whoever it is  believing as I do that players have to make their own decisions on court and should be skilled and professional enough to change their tactics when and where necessary. I get niggled I suppost because like CAS Rafa is always in the front line as soon as he becomes No.1. we start all over again with the poo slinging

Well, in fairness, Stan W started the slinging and, given Rafa's profile, it would be a topic for discussion whether he was number 1, 5 or 40 in the rankings. I'm sure other players do also break this rule but I can't recall another player making accusations about any of the other top guys.

Born Slippy wrote:Well, in fairness, Stan W started the slinging and, given Rafa's profile, it would be a topic for discussion whether he was number 1, 5 or 40 in the rankings. I'm sure other players do also break this rule but I can't recall another player making accusations about any of the other top guys.

Its a dilemma for Rafa I fear .. Toni is a law unto himself. And who is going to tell him he is no good at what he does in other areas of Rafa´s career ??? I feel it needs an official warning and a threat to ban him. There may not have been any warnings issued to others but I vouch that I have seen it... one incident in particular and blatant was Verdasco´s father who was then his coach doing so at the semis in Australia. However I cant give you a link BS to any of it only what I saw. But I do have to say that Rafa´s camp are a media magnet.. Toni is the most famous tennis coach in the world and will always be in the spotlight whatever he does... he knows that of course so I wish he would behave accordingly

Haddie-nuff wrote:I get niggled I suppost because like CAS Rafa is always in the front line as soon as he becomes No.1. we start all over again with the poo slinging

The only thing worse than being talked about is not being talked about
Thing is, whoever is in the front line gets flak - just look at all the stuff thrown at Fed over the years.
And in this case, the coaching thing was brought up because it happened this week, so it's a topical tennis story.
But it's also good that we get e.g. Hawkeye's recent thread that celebrates the YE No. 1

Have said yes to this. If it's allowed it will end the "is he? isn't he?" debate. What constitutes coaching anyway? Does anybody know? (certainly not the LTA, you may say!)

JuliusHMarx wrote:

Haddie-nuff wrote:I get niggled I suppost because like CAS Rafa is always in the front line as soon as he becomes No.1. we start all over again with the poo slinging

The only thing worse than being talked about is not being talked about
Thing is, whoever is in the front line gets flak - just look at all the stuff thrown at Fed over the years.
And in this case, the coaching thing was brought up because it happened this week, so it's a topical tennis story.
But it's also good that we get e.g. Hawkeye's recent thread that celebrates the YE No. 1

I am not saying that Nadal wont get flak.. but on this particular matter I feel to some degree its not in his hands.
His personal behaviour on court, and the criticisms he receives, if it is deserved I agree with. But for the most part I myself get angry with Toni.. his responsibility is to protect his player (in this case his own nephew) from this kind of criticism. But it would appear he thrives on the controversy of it all... sod Rafa

Haddie-nuff wrote:I feel it needs an official warning and a threat to ban him.

The W2010 was a very clear statement of intent at a Slam. Does Toni need more?

He is not abusing his nephew like Dokic Sr. or Tomic Sr. so a ban is unlikely.

No need to ban Toni. Just enforce the rules properly. It sounds like Rafa should have got a point penalty v. Stan. Does anyone seriously think that Toni would carry on coaching with the next penalty being losing a game? He does it (and Rafa condones it) because they can get away with it.

Rafa isn't the victim here. If anything, his position as number 1 is protecting him.

Well anyone who is watching Sky Sports 3 prior to Berdy/Rafa match would have heard Mark Petchy and Boris Becker say that on court coaching goes on all the time.. not necessarily verbal but with hand signals.. they are calling for it to be legalised.

I dont agree with that last comment but it endorses what I have said before in that Toni is just more obvious than other coaches- but he is not the only one. But keep kicking Rafa if you must

fact1: everything nadal won in tennis was because he took advantage of oncourt coaching
fact2: only toni nadal does oncourt coaching

Well anyone who is watching Sky Sports 3 prior to Berdy/Rafa match would have heard Mark Petchy and Boris Becker say that on court coaching goes on all the time.. not necessarily verbal but with hand signals.. they are calling for it to be legalised.

I have stated their case ... I believe the professionals should know what their talking about... particularly Boris Becker who was a player himself..... yours is just a biased opinion.

I too watched the Sky Sports studio debate, HN, and found it very interesting that all the pundits rose as one to say that coaching should be allowed. It was also interesting to hear Petchy talk about it going on all the time and also admitting that he himself broke the rules.

Another feature from Sky that I have also very much enjoyed during this tournament is how after the match, Petchy interviews the victor and they talk about their performance and play. Great to hear these players talk so astutely about their tactical game, something we've not had before and hats off to Sky for bringing this in. I've got a heightened insight as to how much these top players are so tactically aware anyway regardless of any "add ons" they may get from a coach during a match.

Im glad someone else saw it Cav and its something I knew happened having watched tennis for so many years I have seen it with my own eyes caught on camera when they thought they were not being watched.
However, I dont agree with on court coaching in any shape or form.
To legalise it would spoil the game I think.