Ireland v Samoa 5.45pm

First topic message reminder :

At that good man Gibbo's request and because the other thread was humongous !

COME ON IRELAND!!!!


Live on rte 2 and bbc NI. Hopefully that means rte won't scramble the signal. Have it on record there just incase.

Saint
Ging to try and avoid the Wales score and pick it up on iplayer later

I thought he was ok - His control at the base of the scrum was very good, as per usual.

One thing that was noticeable (to me) was Rory Best and BOD seemed to be the ones talking to the ref regularly and providing leadership - even Paddy Jackson seemed to be more involved in the decision making.

"That "aul samaon dude" has played in more Rugby World Cups than anyone else on the planet"

Something that was lost on the BBC commentary team who mentioned the 'gentleman' but failed to recognise the legend that is Brian 'the chiropractor' Lima.

Job done by Ireland and that really is all it is. International rustiness and first game jitters aside it was a decent display that needs to be steeply ramped up for next week. The tactics were spot on in wearing the Samoans down and letting the game come to Ireland when the gaps opened up. I am happy enough but it's a different minset and a different gameplan for next week.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:So how do people think Heaslip did?  Very little has been said about him.

I thought he did well - tackled a lot, but POM was the star of that backrow. That first turnover early in the game was at a crucial time. Could have been a different game if Samoa had got their try then.

Overall - a good win, but that was not an entertaining game. A bit disappointed by the back play - despite it being a Leinster backline (minus the halfbacks), they didn't look great. We will know next week whether its Sexton or Nacewa is the missing ingredient, though Bowe was poor (which could be down to new coaching regime).

Paddy Jackson had a great game. Delighted his kicking went well for him.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:So how do people think Heaslip did?  Very little has been said about him.

Terrible captain.

I was hoping Henry would have a great game but unfortunately he went off injured. POM and O'Brien were both good individually. Especially POM. But i just don't like the balance of that backrow. I'd prefer someone like Henry or Jennings there.

Heaslip is the best 8 of the home nations. But I don't think he's a good captain.

Full match here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9UddkupE3c


If you want to just skip to the second half

https://youtu.be/N9UddkupE3c

Was at the match last night and was my first time at the Aviva since its been re-opened. (Only moved back to Ireland 8 months ago). But had to say was very disappointed with the fans.

Noise during the kicks despite an announcement for people to keep quiet. A constant stream of people going for drinks during the match meaning everyone have a get out of their way every few minutes.

I know these aren't big issues just found them annoying. I go to a good few provincial games and never notice these things. Has anyone else found a difference between crowds at provincial and international games?

Anyway rant over.

The most worrying aspect of the game was the ineffectiveness of the second row.
It was like the difference between day and night when POC came on. Suddenly there was more power and urgency at the breakdown, he made a couple of memorable tackles and at least two steals at the lineout. Toner and McCarthy just don't have Test presence and honest toil won't be enough against sterner opposition. When POC came on, he freed up the backrow to play a wider more attacking game.

This result feels a bit like the Argentina one last year. Its hard to know how much of the score was down to us or the quality of the opposition. Before the match I'd have bitten your hand off for that score line but the performance wasn't that inspiring. The next two weeks will be a much better acid test in terms of were we are in World rugby right now. You can only beat who's in front of you though.

Looking at Wales, England and SA...even France I think we have some way to go, but its early days.

profitius wrote:Full match here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9UddkupE3c


If you want to just skip to the second half

https://youtu.be/N9UddkupE3c

Excellent! Fancied watching it again today.  This time sober...

Thanks Prof.

rawa86 wrote:
I know these aren't big issues just found them annoying. I go to a good few provincial games and never notice these things. Has anyone else found a difference between crowds at provincial and international games?

Yep! It's one of the reasons I don't go to as many test matches as I used to. I was sorely tempted by the fact you could get decent seats for this game for 15 euros, but the logistics of getting down and back-up just made it difficult. I knew when I heard them playing The Fields of Athenry over the PA speaker Saracens style that I had made the right choice!   

rodders wrote:

Munchkin wrote:
McGrath is a revelation, and Best is in superb form. Think Kearney senior had a good game

Agree. Thought Toner deserves a mention too - was the best of the locks on show including O'Connell who looked a bit lost to be honest.

Interesting on Kearney who has been in fairly dire form. He looked much more willing to run with the ball, rather than just boot it away aimlessly - the Schmidt factor maybe?

Schmidt wasn't happy at all with the kicking from hand, and gifting Samoa with possession. Poor kicks, and poor decision making. It's strange though as so many opted to kick rather than run with ball. With my tin foil conspiracy hat on, I'm claiming it was all part of a cunning Schmidt plan to thwart Aussie plans for next week  

A convincing scoreline but a disappointing performance although our set piece and the fact we were clinical in taking scores when the chance arose were encouraging aspects.

The best part of the night came in Schmidts after match interview where he acknowledged the problems and resolved to work on them instead of just saying he was happy with the win,that gives me great confidence that things will be better next week.

Good win against a poor side - it will get tougher.
We ran in three tries near the end because they were fading badly

McGrath was outstanding
Toner did better than I expected - fair play still don't see him as a first XV starter but good backup
Best was also outstanding
Jackson played very well
D'Arcy needs replacing now - worst player in the team.
Did not get enough ball out wide Bowe and McFadden hardly say the ball in the first 60 mins

geoff999rugby wrote:Good win against a poor side - it will get tougher.
We ran in three tries near the end because they were fading badly

McGrath was outstanding
Toner did better than I expected - fair play still don't see him as a first XV starter but good backup
Best was also outstanding
Jackson played very well
D'Arcy needs replacing now - worst player in the team.
Did not get enough ball out wide Bowe and McFadden hardly say the ball in the first 60 mins

Agree with all that Marshall should start next week and Earls will probably replace McFadden if he regains fitness.Tuohy should probably get a game instead of McCarthy with Toner moving to the bench.

It was interesting to see us using a switch move off scrums twice in that game,it might mean Schmidt might has decided that the new scrum laws mean it's now worthwhile using that set piece to devise some back moves.That excites me as he was excellent at coming up with creative moves off the lineout for Leinster so another area where he feels he can do that is a real positive.

Good win to kick off the Schmidt era. Good to have won that well with so much to work on. The Ausies will be a much bigger test.

Can't remember who it was that was extremely concerned with a rookie lose head having Toner and McCarthy behind him in the scrum

Bit my tongue on that one. Big help from Rory Best on that score too. would have helped make McGrath look good in the scrum, and hooked well.

Toner showed his great hands in the lineout and the lose. Showed his power in the tight and lose too. Very hard for such a tall man to scrumage well, but he does it.

Is great in the maul and assisting the ball carier with a shove too.

Paddy Jackson had a really good game, which is great for all of us bar Madser. Poor fecker had to come on out of position AGAIN.

Well blended team and good substitution policy helped to pull us away at the end.

Would be happy to see Marshall and Tuohy come in for Darce and McCarthy next week, but just as happy to see the lads continue if Joe reckons it's the right thing.

10 Leinster players on the field before half time when Henry went off. Not saying it is a good thing, but we must be doing something right in terms of developing Irish players.

Hopefully it will shake out a bit over the 6N and as Joe gets the measure of the players available to him.

Has anyone heard how Pisi is?

He was spark out for quite some time.

I don't really want to say much about that game.

It's done (not to say I didn't have an absolute ball watching it live but I think it really would be premature to say too much about it for now)... let's move along to the real first tester.  
And I say that not to demote Samoa but to say you need a second game against the very kind of opposition we'll be meeting in the next two games to really judge that first one.

What I loved was that Schmidt (plus fellow coaches and players) gave us a game that I was fully expecting to see (a growing game of increasing tempo through the 80; and an increasing desire to punish an opposition that is falling away).  I was a little anxious that it might not happen after all, given the sticky start, but seeing it gradually materialise means that Schmidt is being true to form and is bringing his more ruthless temperament with him to the Irish team.
It's not enough to say you've won at the highest level in International - and I think too often Ireland in the past has had that attitude: - Just win it - respect the opposition - don't get cocky - don't risk - earn the right to go wide etc etc -

If you can win - then seek to punish.  It creates an instinct to use all 80 minute International sessions to the max as virtual heavy duty training (priceless), and it imbues confidence.  A game like yesterday can't help but instill confidence, and confidence is half the battle in making plays and passes stick.

I saw a team working as a team, I saw a team hungry to attack and I saw an International team looking like one again.  But next week will be when we can genuinely analyse what we saw yesterday.  Was it the promising start we all saw it as (with lots to work on, mind you) or will be be shouting about 'f**king inconsistency!!!' again?  Australia awaits with the answer.

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:
Can't remember who it was that was extremely concerned with a rookie lose head having Toner and McCarthy behind him in the scrum

Really? It was me. I posted that Census Johnston was liable to give any of our looseheads a hard time and I was concerned about going with our least experienced backed up with two fairly lightweight scrummaging locks against one of the best in Europe at the moment. I was incredibly relieved when Census Johnston was ruled out for that very reason! And then, Mulipola off in the first few minutes. I'm glad that McGrath did well but I'm also glad a potentially difficult evening wasn't on the cards when only the relatively ineffectual James Johnston was left. I relaxed when I saw him enter the fray- Samoa don't have the stocks to have quality in that position when they are down to their third-choice tighthead, the older brother is the dangerman. They just didn't have the technical nous to give McGrath a sterner test- we'll never know how he would have fared against Census Johnston, and frankly I'm glad we didn't have to find out. Two injured tightheads plus us scrummaging better as a unit equaled easy scrum dominance, a good source of possession and confidence for a promising young player. Australia have an average scrum and New Zealand have a decent scrum but neither look to attack teams in that area and keep the ball in, so think our two mobile looseheads are well suited to the next two games.

It's got to be said McGrath and Ross both dominated their opposite numbers but it wasn't just the one on one. Ireland scrummaged better as an 8, something that we never did as well under Kidney with the back five never pulling their weight... you really have to scrummage longer under these laws and I was pretty delighted with both that and the quality of our rolling maul. The whole pack (yeah, including the second row) put a shift in at the scrum and we wore them down. They looked pretty shattered by the end.

There's more positives than negatives, I guess D'Arcy and McCarthy looked a bit old and tired. But then they are the known quantities to Schmidt, they understand what he is trying to do. McCarthy did his part in the scrums and mauls and though Toner called the ball to himself a fair bit we already know he's an able lineout option. I wouldn't be overly concerned about him starting even if I feel he offers little to nothing in general play.

I was more alarmed with the ease that D'Arcy and BOD were split open at times in the first half, I thought BOD had a few very poor defensive reads and D'Arcy had at least one but just the lack of legs they have- they're both slowing up alarmingly. I wouldn't like to see Israel Folau cutting a line between them...

Just rewatched the game this time a little sober and I actually thought Darcy had a better game than BOD in the centre and was directly responsible for two tries plus defensively he was solid ...based on the game I don't believe Schmidt will change it for next week.

Paddy Jackson had a very good game with no mistakes..
Toner had a good game.

Best and POM were the two outstanding players.

Overall it was a mixed bag really. Team for next week will be something along these lines.

Healy, Best, Ross, POC, Toner/McCarthy, POM, SOB, Heaslip, Murray, Sexton, Earls/McFadden, Darcy, BOD, Bowe, Kearney

Some big surprises there....

Notch wrote:

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:
Can't remember who it was that was extremely concerned with a rookie lose head having Toner and McCarthy behind him in the scrum

Really? It was me. I posted that Census Johnston was liable to give any of our looseheads a hard time and I was concerned about going with our least experienced backed up with two fairly lightweight scrummaging locks against one of the best in Europe at the moment. I was incredibly relieved when Census Johnston was ruled out for that very reason! And then, Mulipola off in the first few minutes. I'm glad that McGrath did well but I'm also glad a potentially difficult evening wasn't on the cards when only the relatively ineffectual James Johnston was left. I relaxed when I saw him enter the fray- Samoa don't have the stocks to have quality in that position when they are down to their third-choice tighthead, the older brother is the dangerman. They just didn't have the technical nous to give McGrath a sterner test- we'll never know how he would have fared against Census Johnston, and frankly I'm glad we didn't have to find out. Two injured tightheads plus us scrummaging better as a unit equaled easy scrum dominance, a good source of possession and confidence for a promising young player. Australia have an average scrum and New Zealand have a decent scrum but neither look to attack teams in that area and keep the ball in, so think our two mobile looseheads are well suited to the next two games.

It's got to be said McGrath and Ross both dominated their opposite numbers but it wasn't just the one on one. Ireland scrummaged better as an 8, something that we never did as well under Kidney with the back five never pulling their weight... you really have to scrummage longer under these laws and I was pretty delighted with both that and the quality of our rolling maul. The whole pack (yeah, including the second row) put a shift in at the scrum and we wore them down. They looked pretty shattered by the end.

There's more positives than negatives, I guess D'Arcy and McCarthy looked a bit old and tired. But then they are the known quantities to Schmidt, they understand what he is trying to do. McCarthy did his part in the scrums and mauls and though Toner called the ball to himself a fair bit we already know he's an able lineout option. I wouldn't be overly concerned about him starting even if I feel he offers little to nothing in general play.

I was more alarmed with the ease that D'Arcy and BOD were split open at times in the first half, I thought BOD had a few very poor defensive reads and D'Arcy had at least one but just the lack of legs they have- they're both slowing up alarmingly. I wouldn't like to see Israel Folau cutting a line between them...

Any nation down to their 3rd choice TH would struggle. I would say Samoa have the best dept at TH out of all the nations. To have a player of James' ability as your 3rd choice is pretty impressive.

Remember McGrath was also dominating Mulipola before he went off.

Just checking the stats here, Heaslip made a lot of tackles (15)

And in the 35 odd minutes that Henry was on the pitch he made 7.

I thought Henry was going well until he went off. His defence was really aggressive and made a number of good shoots.

Agree pretty much with MEs post...  

Only changes I would make for next week would be SOB, Healy, Sexton and O'Connell to start....maybe Reddan... McLaughlin to come in on the bench if Henry doesn't make it....

rodders wrote:I thought Henry was going well until he went off. His defence was really aggressive and made a number of good shoots.

Agree pretty much with MEs post...  

Only changes I would make for next week would be SOB, Healy, Sexton and O'Connell to start....maybe Reddan... McLaughlin to come in on the bench if Henry doesn't make it....

Jackson to the bench or Madigan to get another crack as a sub?

Good question....Jackson played very well but then Madigan had a real impact when he came on at centre...Dave K scored 2 tries too....

Tough call... it depends how fit Sexton is....I'm going to go with Madigan and K2 on the bench...sorry Jacko...

Reason is if Sexton is fit I think he'll play the 80 min ...if anyone comes off it'll be Drico or D'arcy so having Madigan there gives us more options....

Jesus lad we badly need some new blood in the centre. Marshall to come in for D'arcy for the love of God. I would keep Madigan on he bench though.

I thought D'arcy was ok Stand. Really can't see Schmidt leaving him out.

Whether he was ok or not isn't really the whole point though rodders.

Like i stated in another post ...

World Cup is two years away and today in a non competition international we played a 33 yr old prop, 31 yr old lock, 32 and 34 yr old centers, with a 32 and 33 yr old coming off the bench.

This isn't the 6N, this is one of the few times in a rugby calendar you get to give experience to the promising players and test their mettle.

When else would you do it?

Unless you adopt the approach of players gaining experience only when unfortunate injury crisis allow it?

clivemcl wrote:
This isn't the 6N, this is one of the few times in a rugby calendar you get to give experience to the promising players and test their mettle.

No I agree but the way the fixtures have fallen this year we don't have much room for experimenting. We had to win that game because there is a very good possibility we won't win either of the others.

Other than Drico, all the other players are committed to the RWC....a few will decline and drop off but we are only 2 years away now... so the players we are looking at will form the spine of the squad, whether they are 21 or 33.

We had Toner, Jackson, McGrath, Kearney JR, Madigan all feature and Murray and POM are still young too. A handful of >30 year olds is ok - look at the ABs or SA - and the balance isn't too bad in terms of youth and experience with a few youngers guys injured (Zebo, Gilroy, Hendo) and/or pushing for a spot (Marshall, Marmion, Olding). Jared Payne will become available next season too.

If the older guys are performing, and committed to 2015, then I don't have problem with a few still being involved within reason.

Schmidt has got incredible attention to detail so I trust his judgement, much more than his predecessors, in terms of whether guys are over the hill or not.

clivemcl wrote:Whether he was ok or not isn't really the whole point though rodders.

Like i stated in another post ...

World Cup is two years away and today in a non competition international we played a 33 yr old prop, 31 yr old lock, 32 and 34 yr old centers, with a 32 and 33 yr old coming off the bench.

This isn't the 6N, this is one of the few times in a rugby calendar you get to give experience to the promising players and test their mettle.

When else would you do it?

Unless you adopt the approach of players gaining experience only when unfortunate injury crisis allow it?

Losing to Samoa, as you might lose to Glasgow in any given week if you were forced to play all your younger alternatives in the one game, wouldn't be much of a learning curve or confidence booster.  It would be a loss - it would be a first game loss - and people would be throwing insults right left and centre at each other, here and in the media.  And Schmidt himself would be taking most of it.

Schmidt knows what he's doing - to the extent that he knows what he wants to achieve - his goals for the next few years.  He has those goals because he's an ambitious man (behind all the nice timid smiling for the cameras).  So he's more aware than any of us for the need to have a realistic squad ready and willing to engage at the highest International level.  You don't really achieve in International tournaments unless you have players that can slide easily into a system.  Schmidt did rotation better than anyone in Europe at his time at Leinster - undoubtedly he'll do it again - and he'll need to because of how he asks his players to play.  They're asked to play hard whilst on the field - no floating around and cruising through an easy 80.  So, he'll need recycling and rotating by virtue of how he likes his teams to play.

But he doesn't really need to be told how old his players are by any of us.  His contract is to develop towards the world cup and to win as much as he can in the meantime - so that crowds will become more enthusiastic again, so that crowds might go up again, so that income levels reach targets, so that IRFU gets its financial house in order.  

Paul O'Connell got the loudest cheer because people who paid in wanted to see him.  But he wasn't on the pitch because people wanted to see him.  He was on it because he can still help Schmidt develop his plans into the future - and using a sprinkle of our older players to do that will continue for as long as Schmidt requires it..

Well, one game - two places jumped in the rankings. Up to 6th. Okay, so it doesn't buy groceries in a shop but, still, nice to look at after our stint at 9th not long ago.

We could be back down to 7th/8th just as quickly if we don't bring the thunder against the Aussies though. We are "five hundredths of a rating point" above Wales, which is almost as close as you can get.

Leinster fans did occasionally get frustrated by some selection calls that Joe made, but in his three years with us he really made fools of all of us. Not once did he get it wrong, so if he picks Darcy again this week I’m going to accept that he knows what he’s doing and that it’s the right call.

I hope he does pick Marshall because I think Marshall is a quality player and deserves a call up, but if he doesn't then it will be for the right reasons you can be sure of that.

Notch wrote:We could be back down to 7th/8th just as quickly if we don't bring the thunder against the Aussies though. We are "five hundredths of a rating point" above Wales, which is almost as close as you can get.

You call that a Mach 3 shave

Earls and Henry ruled out. Fitz and Jenno called up.

We can only end up 5th 6th or 7th next week unless Scotland put + 15 points on the Boks.
Any win puts us in 5th.

Mickado wrote:Just checking the stats here, Heaslip made a lot of tackles (15)

Ah yeah, but he did none of his trade mark carries. Therefore he was sh1t. QED.

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:

Mickado wrote:Just checking the stats here, Heaslip made a lot of tackles (15)

Ah yeah, but he did none of his trade mark carries. Therefore he was sh1t. QED.

Same number of carries as POM and SOB but for less ground gained. Unseen work.

Mickado wrote:

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:

Mickado wrote:Just checking the stats here, Heaslip made a lot of tackles (15)

Ah yeah, but he did none of his trade mark carries. Therefore he was sh1t. QED.

Same number of carries as POM and SOB but for less ground gained. Unseen work.

Drop him!! Serve him right for having loose trousers!  

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:

Mickado wrote:

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:

Mickado wrote:Just checking the stats here, Heaslip made a lot of tackles (15)

Ah yeah, but he did none of his trade mark carries. Therefore he was sh1t. QED.

Same number of carries as POM and SOB but for less ground gained. Unseen work.

Drop him!! Serve him right for having loose trousers!  

Maybe it was the loose trews that prevented him gaining more ground. And the beats by dre's that meant he couldn't hear the lineout calls...

There once was a time when a builder liked to expose his hairy bum........... and he would be considered salt of the earth for doing so. A hard-workin' daycent sod.
Now you have your builders-bum trousers on but you cover the bum with expensive underwear apparel....you is scum

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:

Mickado wrote:Just checking the stats here, Heaslip made a lot of tackles (15)

Ah yeah, but he did none of his trade mark carries. Therefore he was sh1t. QED.

He was decent in this game, great control at the base of the scrum and he made a lot of tackles, as has been pointed out already.

There was one instance where he was seriously crap though.  He missed two easy tackles within a few minutes of each other before giving away a stupid penalty (they went for the corner, I thought they took the 3 points).  I remember face palming the whole time, it was really bad.

Also, it isn't due to his lack of carrying that people think he has been mediocre a lot over the past few seasons.  It is because he has simply been mediocre, funny enough.  

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Earls and Henry ruled out. Fitz and Jenno called up.

Jeebus will there be anyone left in D4! .....

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:

Mickado wrote:Just checking the stats here, Heaslip made a lot of tackles (15)

Ah yeah, but he did none of his trade mark carries. Therefore he was sh1t. QED.

He was decent in this game, great control at the base of the scrum and he made a lot of tackles, as has been pointed out already.

There was one instance where he was seriously crap though.  He missed two easy tackles within a few minutes of each other before giving away a stupid penalty and gifting Samoa with 3 points.  I remember face palming the whole time, it was really bad.

Seeing as they only scored 9 points that should be easy to find. I'll look later. Where was "Ireland's form 8 James Cawlin" when we needed him eh?

Rory_Gallagher wrote:
Also, it isn't due to his lack of carrying that people think he has been mediocre a lot over the past few seasons.  It is because he has simply been mediocre, funny enough.  

We will probably never agree on that. The man himself refuses to accept your version. And Joe Schmidt, among several others, is on record about Jamie changing his game to suit the team.

rodders wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Earls and Henry ruled out. Fitz and Jenno called up.

Jeebus will there be anyone left in D4! .....

The game finished with 11 Leinster players on the field. It's embarrassing really. Focking lucky we won and won well.

and 5 of those had represented Clongowes at school level which is fairly impressive for a school of max 450 pupils in total.

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:

Mickado wrote:Just checking the stats here, Heaslip made a lot of tackles (15)

Ah yeah, but he did none of his trade mark carries. Therefore he was sh1t. QED.

He was decent in this game, great control at the base of the scrum and he made a lot of tackles, as has been pointed out already.

There was one instance where he was seriously crap though.  He missed two easy tackles within a few minutes of each other before giving away a stupid penalty and gifting Samoa with 3 points.  I remember face palming the whole time, it was really bad.

Seeing as they only scored 9 points that should be easy to find. I'll look later. Where was "Ireland's form 8 James Cawlin" when we needed him eh?

Rory_Gallagher wrote:
Also, it isn't due to his lack of carrying that people think he has been mediocre a lot over the past few seasons.  It is because he has simply been mediocre, funny enough.  

We will probably never agree on that. The man himself refuses to accept your version. And Joe Schmidt, among several others, is on record about Jamie changing his game to suit the team.

I edited my post above as I made a mistake, he gave away the penalty in our own 22 but the injury to Pisi had just happened, so they went for the corner, not the 3 points.  If you want to find the period of play I am talking about, it is at an hour and 9 minutes on the youtube link posted above.

Look, you can mock me all you want for criticising your favourite player, but James Coughlan was the form irish 8 last season, and it really is hard to dispute that if you aren't a biased Heaslip fanboy.  The Munster back row as a whole looked very good with O'Mahony, O'Donnell and Coughlan, and there was one game in particular where they thoroughly outplayed the Leinster back row at the end of last season.

Could you find me a link where Schmidt has mentioned Heaslip changing his game and becoming mediocre to improve the team?  You say the unseen work thing, which is exactly what the welsh fans use to overate Lydiate as well.  It is a silly cliche when they use it too, and it has little substance when it isn't backed up.  A buzz word used for anonymity.

I think you might be underestimating Lydiate's value as a player too. He was instrumental in knocking Ireland out of the WC IMO.

Anyone I know that went on the Lions tour singled Lydiate out as a player that stood out as a surprisingly good player. Possibly the kind of player you can appreciate more when you are actually at the game, who knows.

Heaslip is just the flavour of the month scapegoat and has been for a while now because he moisturises and dresses nicely. Still Irelands best 8, no question.

Lots of self congratulatory postings by some of the Lady boys fans...not sure why you would want to have a pop off Coughlan in relation to Heaslip Jen....Coughlan is a year or two too late and most munster fans think that so save the childishness. However if you want a masterclass in how to play as an 8 you cant go far wrong with the last Munster/Leinster game I believe Mr Coughlan stood out from the mediocrity on display...

regardless old Jaime was yet again overshadowed by his backrow colleagues...but as indicated he surely did some great unseen work....(so much so its even unseen in the footage)...