Ireland V Australia

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ME-109 wrote:All water under the bridge now....Aus up next which will be interesting...someone start a thread

How hard was that..........

 

"The Ulster centre missed a first-up tackle on livewire Wallabies fly-half Quade Cooper in Ireland's defensive line, gifting the visitors the try that effectively sealed victory."

I am sorry but that article is a disgrace.

Marshall was one of very few players to leave that pitch with any credit at all and yet they make it sound like we would have won if not for his error?????

That is truely shocking!!

As I said earlier MrsP, its a real shame that the media focus on that and not on all the positives Marshall brought to the match on Saturday. The Irish media should be trying to encourage these young players, not highlighting their (supposed) mistakes.

Nobody played well, Marshall included. His error for the Cooper try was a howler. Simple as that.

GunsandGerms,

Everyone knows that they played badly but Marshall made some very good breaks and had the support have been with him may have led to a different gameplan.

My point is that the media should not single out one young man and put him all over the media for something that I don't think is all his fault. What does it achieve other than to possibly affect his confidence?

MrsP wrote: 

"The Ulster centre missed a first-up tackle on livewire Wallabies fly-half Quade Cooper in Ireland's defensive line, gifting the visitors the try that effectively sealed victory."

I am sorry but that article is a disgrace.

Marshall was one of very few players to leave that pitch with any credit at all and yet they make it sound like we would have won if not for his error?????

That is truely shocking!!

It's a disgrace, MrsP, but not shocking coming from the Indo. Deflects away from such an all round dire Ireland performance by scapegoating a promising young Ulster player. Maybe if they push hard enough they can completely destroy his confidence. Marshall is made of tougher stuff though, I believe.

I am beyond disgusted at that!

The lad was the one who has put his hand up for his part (and it was only a part) in that try. There were many others who have much more reason to own up!

GunsGerms wrote:Nobody played well, Marshall included. His error for the Cooper try was a howler. Simple as that.

He actually did play well.  Made more line breaks than any other player, threw some very deft passes that put other players in great positions, and was pretty much the only player alongside McFadden who looked remotely dangerous in the backs.

As for the try..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRUkY25xk0U

Pause it at 2.26/27 as soon as the ball comes out at the scrum.  Every man is covered, and Madigan gets caught in no man's land that opens the gap for Cooper.  Had Marshall come inside, the pass would have went to the man on his right and he would have been through.

Genuinely I do not see what Marshall could possibly have done, after watching it again.  If it was supposed to be his man in this new defensive system, then it is very flawed.  Why on earth would you defend so narrow against a team so dangerous out wide?

I really hope someone in the Ireland camp has the decency to set a few people straight on that ridiculous article!!!

To be honest, even if Marshall had been completely to blame for that try and it was the sole reason we lost that match I would still expect someone to speak up! But, given the abject performances from the vast majority of that squad it is just baffling that anyone could have written that!

If any Irish Rugby fans are nodding their heads while reading that they are seriously deluded!

Marshall is partly at fault. He should have made a better attempt at covering the defensive howler by Madigan. But make no mistake, Madigan should have tackled his man.

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:Marshall is partly at fault.  He should have made a better attempt at covering the defensive howler by Madigan.  But make no mistake, Madigan should have tackled his man.

+1 in your assessment

What really annoys me is Marshall was one of the very few people who could walk of that pitch with his head held high - Healy, Best, Marshall, McFadden of the starters that's it

I say this with all sincerity - but it the whole thing does kind of reflect a stereotype that I have in my head. Ulster have too much humility and maybe struggle with self belief. Its a real shame that Luke Marshall actually feels the need to excuse himself. At the same time, would you ever get a Leinster player holding his hands up to any mistake in that way? From what i see, they tend to immediately shout at somebody else when bad things happen. In fact I saw Marshal kop an earful from McFadden during the game for overrunning.

Is it just me?

I'll not hold my breath waiting for Ian Madigan to tell a journo he's very sorry...

I never thought McFadden was anywhere near international class, light years away.  He was abominable last summer in New Zealand.  However I thought he was very good on Saturday, probably Ireland's second best player.  Second best behind Healy.  He put in a simply astonishing shift, particularly in the scrum.  Toner's selection is a complete and utter joke.  No second row whose arse is above their head in every scrum should be allowed on the pitch.  He is not a rugby player.  Even attempting to make a comparison between him and Tuohy is depressing.  There's only one winner.  Not only that, whoever Healy's backrow support was (POM I think) did an appalling job in the scrum.  Appalling.  No pushing, no effort whatsoever for the majority of the match.  Healy basically held the scrum on his side by himself.  

What is more than that, Best and Healy continue the Kidney regime pattern of the front row doing the job of the backrow.  You want to know why we don't protect the ball better?  Because SOB is standing inside the 10 channel or at 12 looking for a carry, while POM stands out wider.  Here's an idea for the backrow- be forwards.  If I performed like either player and was so lazy at the breakdown I would be hauled off at half time.  I can only imagine that it is the gameplan.  If it is it is moronic and I really expected more from Schmidt.  You need balance and someone doing the hard work.  For Munster that's TOD.  For Ulster its Henry.  For Leinster invariably it is McLaughlin (criminally underrated) or Jennings (past his best).  Unfortunately we are missing both Henry and TOD.  Are they the best individual players in the world?  Nope.  But Munster and Ulster are different beasts without them.  POM's best performances in green have been against France last Six Nations where he was really the best Irish player on the park.  Murray was nowhere near him that day.  POM played so well because he did the hard work at the breakdown and didn't hide out the backs as part of the tactical gameplan looking for Hollywood carries.  I used to think it was laziness, now I see it is just utter tactical ineptitude from the coaching staff.  

The thing I have always admired about Schmidt as Leinster coach is when he made mistakes, and he made plenty and was open about making them, is that he learned from them.  He rarely made the same mistake twice.  I hope he learnt from Saturday and consigns Ross and Toner to the provincial scrapheap where they barely belong.  I can take defeat, but overweight, unfit, pretend rugby players are embarrassing and have no place in any team.

If it wasn't for the way that ridiculous article twisted things, I'd say I was absolutely delighted with what Marshall said. The fact that he has acknowledged his part in the missed tackle, is determined to address that and see what he could have done better speaks volumes about the young man. There is no sense whatsoever of him looking at what anyone else did or did not do. Fully focused on improving his own performance.

What more could a coach ask for in a youngster?

Pity that very admirable response has been seized upon by some fool!

Ireland were just having a run out lads. We're targeting the All Blacks game. That's been the plan from the start. We'll see a massive improvement, don't worry.

MrsP wrote:If it wasn't for the way that ridiculous article twisted things, I'd say I was absolutely delighted with what Marshall said. The fact that he has acknowledged his part in the missed tackle, is determined to address that and see what he could have done better speaks volumes about the young man. There is no sense whatsoever of him looking at what anyone else did or did not do. Fully focused on improving his own performance.

What more could a coach ask for in a youngster?

Pity that very admirable response has been seized upon by some fool!

The part that grinds me MrsP is that Schmidt actually gave the journos time on the incident instead of dismissing them.

He said "you cannot account for a guy who's still really young and still learning, and I think that was pretty evident if you look at it again.".

I mean, I would have expected the coach to stop a journo and say 'Look, there was a lot of poor play out there and we will have to look at that as a collective'.

Schmidt effectively said 'yea, he messed up big time, it was woeful, but what can you do, these young ones need to learn'.


I'm not impressed by Schmidt on this incident at all.

Also, the way it sounds is as if Joe walked into the changing room after the game, singled out Luke and said 'its ok son, we all make mistakes from time to time'.

Was Luke acting in away that somehow visibly called for Joe's pastorship? Or did Joe go round and have a chat with every player about their mistakes???

I would think that Joe did the same with Madigan it's just not been reported.

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:
What is more than that, Best and Healy continue the Kidney regime pattern of the front row doing the job of the backrow.  You want to know why we don't protect the ball better?  Because SOB is standing inside the 10 channel or at 12 looking for a carry, while POM stands out wider.  Here's an idea for the backrow- be forwards.  

Another good piece of analysis.

I have been thinking for some time that this talk of SOB, Heaslip and POM being a strong backrow is a myth.

geoff999rugby wrote:

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:
What is more than that, Best and Healy continue the Kidney regime pattern of the front row doing the job of the backrow.  You want to know why we don't protect the ball better?  Because SOB is standing inside the 10 channel or at 12 looking for a carry, while POM stands out wider.  Here's an idea for the backrow- be forwards.   

Another good piece of analysis.

I have been thinking for some time that this talk of SOB, Heaslip and POM being a strong backrow is a myth.

Geoff - who has claimed that they are a strong back row?  I don't think anyone on here thinks they are strong.  In fact everyone seems to agree that they are indeed very imbalanced.

There are different opinions on why that is and who isn't performing, though.

And you know what else Clive? Joe Schmidt can get tickets for any Ulster game- even when the game is sold out! No justice  

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:Marshall is partly at fault.  He should have made a better attempt at covering the defensive howler by Madigan.  But make no mistake, Madigan should have tackled his man.

Actually Hookster on first viewing I agree but actually having watched again it was Marshall - firstly he's too slow out of the line leaving the dog leg -  the 12 switched inside Cooper so Madigan has to take him, Marshall then has to take Cooper who sells the dummy.

In Marshalls defence (no pun intended) its actually a 5 on 4 because the Ozzie blindside winger (McEnroe) has come into the line and causes Marshall to hesitate enough for Coopers to waltz through - therefore the fault is partially Bowe's because he doesn't see his man come into the line and number up, which leaves Marshall covering two men.

Was at a talk tonight with Gary Longwell - some interesting stories....

Rory_Gallagher wrote: Why on earth would you defend so narrow against a team so dangerous out wide?

The million dollar question! This and the Bowe incidents show it was our strategy to defend narrow.

I would have more questions for Les Kiss than any individual player- and if we show Julien Savea the outside he'll take it, no doubt about it. Slow drift, narrow alignment- the All Blacks will be in heaven if we defend like that again!

rodders wrote:

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:Marshall is partly at fault.  He should have made a better attempt at covering the defensive howler by Madigan.  But make no mistake, Madigan should have tackled his man.

Actually Hookster on first viewing I agree but actually having watched again it was Marshall - firstly he's too slow out of the line leaving the dog leg -  the 12 switched inside Cooper so Madigan has to take him, Marshall then has to take Cooper who sells the dummy.

In Marshalls defence (no pun intended) its actually a 5 on 4 because the Ozzie blindside winger (McEnroe) has come into the line and causes Marshall to hesitate enough for Coopers to waltz through - therefore the fault is partially Bowe's because he doesn't see his man come into the line and number up, which leaves Marshall covering two men.

Was at a talk tonight with Gary Longwell - some interesting stories....

Awk me auld mucker I hate to disagree with you, especially given our loathing for Keith Earls at centre. It binds us together like Sonny and Cher. But the video is clear enough, Marshall and Madigan are up fine. Perhaps Marshall is half a step slow, but no more than that. His position looks worse but BOD has shot out way too fast. BOD is in front of his 10 and 12. I don't think that had any impact on it. Cooper waltzed past Madigan. He should have made the tackle. Marshall should have covered better. He is not blameless, but suggestions that he is the blame are just baseless. Madigan has been such a disappointment this season. He has gone backwards on last seasons purple patch and his kicking at the weekend was really, really poor. Jackson's kicking wasn't much better at times against Samoa, especially early on. I am very concerned about the All Blacks on Sunday. I can smell a bloodbath.

And pork. I smell that too.

clivemcl wrote:

MrsP wrote:If it wasn't for the way that ridiculous article twisted things, I'd say I was absolutely delighted with what Marshall said. The fact that he has acknowledged his part in the missed tackle, is determined to address that and see what he could have done better speaks volumes about the young man. There is no sense whatsoever of him looking at what anyone else did or did not do. Fully focused on improving his own performance.

What more could a coach ask for in a youngster?

Pity that very admirable response has been seized upon by some fool!

The part that grinds me MrsP is that Schmidt actually gave the journos time on the incident instead of dismissing them.

He said "you cannot account for a guy who's still really young and still learning, and I think that was pretty evident if you look at it again.".

I mean, I would have expected the coach to stop a journo and say 'Look, there was a lot of poor play out there and we will have to look at that as a collective'.

Schmidt effectively said 'yea, he messed up big time, it was woeful, but what can you do, these young ones need to learn'.


I'm not impressed by Schmidt on this incident at all.

Also, the way it sounds is as if Joe walked into the changing room after the game, singled out Luke and said 'its ok son, we all make mistakes from time to time'.

Was Luke acting in away that somehow visibly called for Joe's pastorship? Or did Joe go round and have a chat with every player about their mistakes???

Thats how Schmidt operates. Declan Kidney would have pointed to the things Marshall did right but its well documented that Schmidt calls players out on their mistakes so they can learn from them.


Anyway the Cooper try is a non event really. Marshall probably done less things wrong and more things right then everyone else. He should start next week. Les Kiss is a man who needs to hold his hand up.

I heard that too about Schmidt profitius. He doesn't spare the "star" players during video analysis either. Was it that he was asked about Marshall and he answered it? Because he was asked about BOD the week before. In fact I think the question was something like "What about BOD's amazing pass. Wasn't it great?" And he said yeah it was nice, but then criticized the great ones defence, without a bother on him.

He's a bit of a perfectionist.

So obviously he's now curled up in the foetal position in the corner of his room, sobbing, and repeatedly saying "They can't even catch the ball. What have I signed up for?"

I thought Marshall looked class

Feckless Rogue wrote:So obviously he's now curled up in the foetal position in the corner of his room, sobbing, and repeatedly saying "They can't even catch the ball. What have I signed up for?"

Only got himself to blame for that! He has been coaching soooo many of them at Provincial level for the last few seasons!!!

 

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:

rodders wrote:

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:Marshall is partly at fault.  He should have made a better attempt at covering the defensive howler by Madigan.  But make no mistake, Madigan should have tackled his man.

Actually Hookster on first viewing I agree but actually having watched again it was Marshall - firstly he's too slow out of the line leaving the dog leg -  the 12 switched inside Cooper so Madigan has to take him, Marshall then has to take Cooper who sells the dummy.

In Marshalls defence (no pun intended) its actually a 5 on 4 because the Ozzie blindside winger (McEnroe) has come into the line and causes Marshall to hesitate enough for Coopers to waltz through - therefore the fault is partially Bowe's because he doesn't see his man come into the line and number up, which leaves Marshall covering two men.

Was at a talk tonight with Gary Longwell - some interesting stories....

Awk me auld mucker I hate to disagree with you, especially given our loathing for Keith Earls at centre.  It binds us together like Sonny and Cher.  But the video is clear enough, Marshall and Madigan are up fine.  Perhaps Marshall is half a step slow, but no more than that.  His position looks worse but BOD has shot out way too fast.  BOD is in front of his 10 and 12.  I don't think that had any impact on it.  Cooper waltzed past Madigan.  He should have made the tackle.  Marshall should have covered better.  He is not blameless, but suggestions that he is the blame are just baseless. 

I think it looks a lot worse simply because barely a hand was laid on Cooper in all the confusion. The Aussie's worked themselves into a man up situation well and it wasn't picked up on. It's disappointing because Cooper didn't have to make that final pass and waltzed in under the posts but I reckon if Marshall had lined him up the pass would have gone outside for a try anyway. If Madigan had done similar a reverse would have been flicked back inside, it might not have gone to hand but Cooper's more than capable of pulling it off. I wouldn't hold either of the two particularly accountable.

profitius wrote:Thats how Schmidt operates. Declan Kidney would have pointed to the things Marshall did right but its well documented that Schmidt calls players out on their mistakes so they can learn from them.

So will Schmidt put his own hand up and say he got it wrong so he can learn from it?

Did he say to Sexton and Reddan and Kearney and McFadden and Madigan and Murray to kick to the Aussie back three or did they all just think that was a good idea? Presumably if it was the latter he will call out their collective monumental mistake publicly so they can learn from it, and if it was the former then he will put his own hand up? Yet I'm struggling to find a link where he does this, perhaps that's not how he operates at all.

Sorry Rodders I don't buy the lineout was so bad they had to kick in-field bull. They lost their first two lineouts because Toner was sleeping for the first one and POC was beaten for the second one - after that they were perfect. It was Australia that were trying to avoid throwing from the lines because they knew they could be vulnerable there. Ireland needed field position and should have played territory rather than invite world class broken field runners to keep having a go at the Irish defence.

If Schmidt is truly into glastnost and perestroika yet hasn't castigated anyone but Marshall then the only possible conclusion is that he wanted Australia to test the defence in a grand experiment by running the ball back at Ireland as much as possible.

ROG made a really interesting observation about the poor body language of the Ireland team. I have re-watched the game and would thoroughly recommend doing so to anyone who wants to learn from this game. For example AAC kicks ahead and McFadden doesn't even bother to join the foot race to the ball - which luckily dodged into touch. Oz are taking a 22 drop out and only Best is alert to stop the quick tap, Reddan is chatting to BOD oblivious. Sexton had missed a goal kick but on the subsequent ones no one seems especially interested in following the play in case he hits a post or to exert any pressure. ROG pointed out that when POM was speared there should have been half a dozen Irishmen entering the fray swinging at anything in a gold shirt... in short Ireland weren't up for this game. It may be Schmidt's way to point fingers, but since most of them are pointing in his direction maybe he should reconsider that approach.

Only want to comment on the Cooper try cause some people are talking rubbish.

It is an overload play.

Cooper had his 12 coming in on a switch, that is the man Madigan should have and did go to tackle. Marshall has to move on to the next defender (inside to outside) that is Cooper. Yes it leaves the man outside free (BOD would have to cover 2) but you have to take the man with the ball. Make him pass. Make him make a decision. Give him the opportunity to make a mistake.

It was Marshall's fault. He still was the best Irish player on the pitch. Without a doubt.

Other point to note, Toner made the most yards in the forwards after SOB......

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Only want to comment on the Cooper try cause some people are talking rubbish.

It is an overload play.

Cooper had his 12 coming in on a switch, that is the man Madigan should have and did go to tackle. Marshall has to move on to the next defender (inside to outside) that is Cooper. Yes it leaves the man outside free (BOD would have to cover 2) but you have to take the man with the ball. Make him pass. Make him make a decision. Give him the opportunity to make a mistake.

It was Marshall's fault. He still was the best Irish player on the pitch. Without a doubt.

Tis zat nawt wot I said.... 

But likewise as said above we didn't pickup on the extra man joining the line creating the mismatch.

Its the vernacular that is quite odd in the media, and the bizarre focus on this -'Marshall admits to costly error'

Well by my count we conceded 4 tries (should have been 5) and lost comfortably so really it wasn't that costly in terms of the result. The other 2 tries came from individual defensive errors to from BOD, Kearney and Reddan and on the second one a missed tackle by Henshaw and O'Mahoney.

Conceding a try from a 5 metre scrum isn't really as big a botch up as from the halfway line...

Strange not of these warranting their own headlines but then Marshall has been selected ahead of one of Leinster's favourite sons so it would make sense to build the case against his selection.

Sorry Madigan was flapping around like a lost child- he did nothing he was in no mans land and where was the flanker - SOB
My apportionment of blame:

Madigan 60%
Marshall 25%
SOB 15%

Come on guys, this is a storm in a Tea Cup.

McFadden is most likely out, and Kearney a doubt with a rib injury. Honestly after watching that display against Oz, theres nobody I’d like to see called up more than Andrew Trimble.

The on going IRFU fuelled media practice of scapegoating young players at the expense of covering for the inadequacies of undroppable sacred cows is not a storm in a teacup.

It's akin to using public finances to take on the private debt of the financial industry.

clivemcl wrote:McFadden is most likely out, and Kearney a doubt with a  rib injury. Honestly after watching that display against Oz, theres nobody I’d like to see called up more than Andrew Trimble.

I agree with this.

No credit to Cooper or the 12 for creating space and executing at speed? Marshall had a fine game. HE held up his hand and admitted to the error so we can only assume that in practice the 10 was his man from that move.
Cheer up Ulsteronians.

My Team for Sunday

1. Healy
2. Best
3. Fitzpatrick
4. McCarthy
5. O'Connell
6. POM
7. SOB
8. Heaslip
9. Murray
10. Jackson
11. Trimble (if McFadden out)
12. Marshall
13. BOD (has had two games to get up to speed:goodluck: he can find some form.
14. Bowe (skin of his teeth, would consider Earls and Trimble)
15. Kearney JR

16. Cronin 17. McGrath 18. Ross 19. Tuohy 20. McLoughlin 21. Reddan 22. Madigan 23. Henshaw

rodders wrote:The on going IRFU fuelled media practice of scapegoating young players at the expense of covering for the inadequacies of undroppable sacred cows is not a storm in a teacup.

Agreed it is symtomatic of something  unhealthy at the heart of Irish rugby.

Come on lads he's criticised Madigan saying that without Sexton the organisation wasn't there,he criticised BoD last week for defensive reads.He's criticised our poor kicking and set pieces,if you'd prefer we went back to Deccie saying "ah shure didn't we try our best and we'll try hard again next week" then fair enough but I prefer to hear a coach treat the public like adults.

It's pretty obvious from Marshalls comments that he doesn't feel like he's been singled out as I'm sure he knows everyone will be treated equally in the review of the game.

Luke Marshall wrote:"But I appreciated him coming over, he did understand, and it's nice to have that backing.

"It's given me a lot of confidence for him to give me that opportunity. The challenge of course is to take that forward now."

Nothing to do with Schmidt though - there is a unhealthy issue within the southern press scape goating some players when others are beyond reproach.

The worst two players from 10 to 15 on Saturday were BOD and Kearney.
Hardly a word of criticism other than a , correct, assessment BOD is in decline.

And our 'world beating' backrow also seem to escape any serious criticism

In fairness Marshall supplied the quote so of course they would run with it,it's not like they dreamed it up.

Ah...the bullschit after the storm.  

I love the smell of bullschit in the morning.

Sorry Geoff but that is plain wrong, it's not an opinion, and apologies if that's blunt but Madigan took his man. The system means that when an opposition 10-12 switch the green 10 takes the 12 and the green 12 takes the 10. The aussie 12 was covered the aussie 10 was not.

You can't expect the 7 to get over there and not lose yards because the ball moves so much faster than any player. To sacrifice defending the switch would mean that a simple switch off an opensided scrum would result in 5+ metre gains every single time.

BOD was really poor for one of the tries when he broke the line and let Moore through. I thought that was quite simply criminal, nothing about old legs etc just a bad read. He should have started back peddling to try and give the cover defense a chance to get round on the angle. Really poor stuff I thought.

The first try was a result of not numbering up it left POM and Henshaw with way too much to do and neither managed to defend against such odds.

The rolling maul was just that a well executed rolling maul. Says a lot about our pack though.

I think the point some of us are trying to make is that Marshall is actually being very honest and brave in his admission (I don’t believe he was at fault as much as he thinks he was). This kind of self-criticism is the mark of an individual who asks better of himself. It is admirable.

The point is, the media did not make any of the above points in relation to the quotes they were supplied with. They also failed to remind readers that the entire 15 were worse in general. They also made an untrue claim that Marshall’s error in particular was costly to the games outcome.

So for this reason some of us are suggesting that the irish media are pulling down our talent rather than building them up.

Is it a north/south thing? I’m not so sure. But one thong is for sure - a lot of our journos have biases about certain players.

For instance, Jim Neilly I believe does not like Nick Williams, and has to praise him occasionally through gritted teeth but he seizes every opportunity to highlight his errors when he plays the offloading game and it fails.

Journos and pundits should simply be honest and analyse the facts across the board.

If there should be any bias at all, it should at least be in favour of our youth.

asoreleftshoulder wrote:In fairness Marshall supplied the quote so of course they would run with it,it's not like they dreamed it up.

Marshall would be more used to the Ballymoney chronicle, not the tabloid style skulduggery you get with RTE.

The media obviously felt it was a newsworthy story, or one in the public interest. Ireland had an 80% tackle rate which means they missed 20% but the only one meriting its own story was Marshalls?

Sorry but there is an ulterior motive here by the IRFU and its media cronies and its to justify the continued selection of the centrally contracted D'arcy up to the RWC.

geoff998rugby wrote:Nothing to do with Schmidt though - there is a unhealthy issue within the southern press scape goating some players when others are beyond reproach.

The worst two players from 10 to 15 on Saturday were BOD and Kearney.
Hardly a word of criticism other than a , correct, assessment BOD is in decline.

And our 'world beating' backrow also seem to escape any serious criticism

O'Driscoll was very poor alright. Bowe annoyed me too. Very early in the game he butchered a very good try scoring op. This may not have been clear on TV but Ireland were on the Aussie line and the ball was heading out the backs. kearney was in posession and drew his man and Bowe's yet Bowe took an infield line toward his defender who had just got coerced inward by Kearney. If Bowe stayed wide it was a certain try.

So could we be looking at

9. Murray  (21)
10. Jackson (5)/Madigan (6)
11. Trimble (50)/Fitzgerald (26)
12. Marshall (4)
13. BOD (127)
14. Bowe (53)
15. D. Kearney (1)

Thats a massively inexperienced team to play New Zealand. And the two most experienced players arent playing well at all.

There is no sign of the dust settling on this one soon is there folks?

I think we can all agree that as a team, Ireland didn't function on saturday no matter about who's to blame for what. I know one thing, it's nothing to do with Schmidt. It's proof to me that a coach needs some time to be able to make his mark on a side and Schmidt had one game under his belt before the Ozzies came calling. Schmidt is a smart guy and will have solutions to problems eventually but unfortunately for us I don't think that his third game in is going to be that moment. The ABs on sunday could be painful, good lord I hope not.

rodders wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:In fairness Marshall supplied the quote so of course they would run with it,it's not like they dreamed it up.

Marshall would be more used to the Ballymoney chronicle, not the tabloid style skulduggery you get with RTE.

The media obviously felt it was a newsworthy story, or one in the public interest. Ireland had an 80% tackle rate which means they missed 20% but the only one meriting its own story was Marshalls?

Sorry but there is an ulterior motive here by the IRFU and its media cronies and its to justify the continued selection of the centrally contracted D'arcy up to the RWC.  

 

Really? I don't understand how you guys are getting so upset about the media taking a noteworthy quote and running with it.The Irish media is of a pretty low standard and complaining when they live up to their low standards is futile,they aren't biased they're just poor.

GunsGerms wrote:

geoff998rugby wrote:Nothing to do with Schmidt though - there is a unhealthy issue within the southern press scape goating some players when others are beyond reproach.

The worst two players from 10 to 15 on Saturday were BOD and Kearney.
Hardly a word of criticism other than a , correct, assessment BOD is in decline.

And our 'world beating' backrow also seem to escape any serious criticism

O'Driscoll was very poor alright. Bowe annoyed me too. Very early in the game he butchered a very good try scoring op. This may not have been clear on TV but Ireland were on the Aussie line and the ball was heading out the backs. kearney was in posession and drew his man and Bowe's yet Bowe took an infield line toward his defender who had just got coerced inward by Kearney. If Bowe stayed wide it was a certain try.

PoM also butchered a certain try with a simple knock on and Reddan messed up a really good chance by missing PoC with a simple pop pass,so in fairness there's 3 real try scoring opportunities in the 1st half,I think Schmidt is starting to put his stamp on that side of things but unless we stop giving away simple scores it doesn't matter.