From an England Perspective - What Have We learned Today

First topic message reminder :

Well, first and foremost why the ABs are No.1 and likely to stay there.

What we must aspire to, to join them at the top.

We have strength in depth at loosehead, Marler played well and he is our 3rd choice.

T. Youngs needs to stay at Tigers for a bit until his throwing is consistent enough to play at this level, perhaps they could stretch him a couple of inches s well. Webber must get his chance.

Lawes and Launchberry are the best pairing at lock we have, Lawes was world class today. Parling is not an impact sub, Attwood or an equivalent is needed

Billy Vunipolo and Morgan are both very good 8s

Dickson is the way forward if we want a fast paced game, bringing forwards and backs into the game at pace.

Farrell can attack as well as kick, but needs to stop these lateral runs that go nowhere, much better 2nd half, tried to take it straighter

36 may have the 12 shirt again next year, if he plays like today and not last week.

Tomkins is not close to this level, yet at least. there are a least three better backs out there now, not including Manu. A failed experiment that needs to be stopped.

Ashton, played better, but still few runs following the ball carrier,  runs back against the flow when ball moving laterally.

Brown is top class

Foden can cover wing, but is a full back

We need more cover at 9, Youngs is not doing it anymore, he ha been found out I think.

Flood cannot hack it at this level.



We are getting there if we can keep up the intensity, but too many mistake and poor choice replacements.

Taylorman wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:so you think this AB's is better than Spain?

come on spit out why and how ?

So in either 100 years or the last 20 Spain has a better winning record in matches that matter? Care to share what the figures are for Spain then? Or is just your'opinion'

Or what is your measure of the most successful sporting team is mere winning % isnt it (I mean...how silly is that...winning %-)

very silly in comparison to football

1. winning friendlies are meaningless in football due to the set up and the fact that most of the time clubs control the players and during the season, international friendlies play second fiddle to the major domestic leagues.

2. The scoring system.. draws are not a rarity in football. so comparing winning percentages doesn't tell the full story. no lose stats would be more relevant.

3. Spain have won the last 3 major tournies on the spin.

4. football is a truly global sport, Rugby isn't

5. surely(back to your original point) we are talking about this team or one particular team- not a sustained period which incorporates many different set ups(so 100 or 20 years is irrelevant)

Mystri - here's a hint. Rather than trying to argue this rather silly and meritless angle... The answer is : the Australian rugby league team.

You see, that then forces your opponent to bring up the globalisation of the sport and THEN you swoop in with a football reference to Spain, Brazil, whomever.

Oh ebop they are 100% IMO - football has moved on so much and is so competitive- to win 3 major tournies in the spin is mind blowing.

Many other teams may stick in the mind as great(for example brazil back in peles day) but there were in eras that lacked professionalism, fitness and competition.

ebop i meam...our latecomer...
Anyway, have a snooker final to play so outta here. Well done ABs...hard luck England. Look forward to the tour. Its certainly given Hansen something to talk about.

Mysti.... are you John [sp] Inverdale?

GloriousEmpire wrote:Mystri - here's a hint. Rather than trying to argue this rather silly and meritless angle... The answer is : the Australian rugby league team.

You see, that then forces your opponent to bring up the globalisation of the sport and THEN you swoop in with a football reference to Spain, Brazil, whomever.

Hint The kiwis have been talking about the best sporting team- not the best Rugby union team!!

the australian team has never been so good, maybe england back in 2003 though

RDSguru wrote:Mysti.... are you John [sp] Inverdale?

I dont think he even knows what football is dude!

You can always tell England have been put back in their box when "fans" start mentioning that rugby isn't a real sport anyway.

Sigh.

Rugby is a very real sport. I love it!

But this is strictly some objectivity for the nonsense talked by certain kiwis.

mystiroakey wrote:

RDSguru wrote:Mysti.... are you John [sp] Inverdale?

I dont think he even knows what football is dude!

Phewwww... He was on about Sanchez [sp] scoring 2 for Chile against England yesterday and the scoring 6 against Wales today.... ! you're OK pal

RDSguru wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:

RDSguru wrote:Mysti.... are you John [sp] Inverdale?

I dont think he even knows what football is dude!

Phewwww... He was on about Sanchez [sp] scoring 2 for Chile against England yesterday and the scoring 6 against Wales today.... ! you're OK pal

Lol.

I dont listen to him dude!"

As pointed out. The "nonsense" was spoken by Lancaster, rowntree and a Brit journo and now the BBC.

So, Erm, any more points about football to bring up?

mystiroakey wrote:Oh ebop they are 100% IMO - football has moved on so much and is so competitive- to win 3 major tournies in the spin is mind blowing.

Many other teams may stick in the mind as great(for example brazil back in peles day) but there were in eras that lacked professionalism, fitness and competition.

over what period are they 100%. Your criteria is a little grey mysti.Have you personally decided that the measure of all sporting sides is to win 3 specific tournaments? How is that logoical or even remotely fair? Very selective reasoning methinks.

ABs are 100% this year and have every trophy they play for:
Bledisloe cup- since 2002
World Cup - never lost a match in 11'
Rugby Championship-never lost a match in two years
Dave Gal Cup
Freedom Cup
and now the Hillary Shld

And I'd suggest you cant go back in time find one. Surely the measure of a successful team is continuity, consistency over a long period- 100 years in fact- sure they werent no.1 every year but they have the highest winning % over a very long period.Surely that is the measure of greatness in sport?

The comments all originated from kiwis mouths dude..

they are just reporting on it, and even if they agree(which many do) they are still wrong.

I dont have to back up everything up to do with England dude. We can be wrong!

Hey! Don't forget the Women's and men's 7 world cups and the IRB 7's circuit. Spain actually play for those ones!

Taylorman wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:Oh ebop they are 100% IMO - football has moved on so much and is so competitive- to win 3 major tournies in the spin is mind blowing.

Many other teams may stick in the mind as great(for example brazil back in peles day) but there were in eras that lacked professionalism, fitness and competition.

over what period are they 100%. Your criteria is a little grey mysti.Have you personally decided that the measure of all sporting sides is to win 3 specific tournaments? How is that logoical or even remotely fair? Very selective reasoning methinks.

ABs are 100% this year and have every trophy they play for:
Bledisloe cup- since 2002
World Cup - never lost a match
Rugby Championship-never lost a match in two years
Dave Gal Cup
Freedom Cup
and now the Hillary Shld

Its an amazing record- but for the factors i mentioned i put spain above them.

mystiroakey wrote:

RDSguru wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:

RDSguru wrote:Mysti.... are you John [sp] Inverdale?

I dont think he even knows what football is dude!

Phewwww... He was on about Sanchez [sp] scoring 2 for Chile against England yesterday and the scoring 6 against Wales today.... ! you're OK pal

Lol.

I dont listen to him dude!"

Listening and hearing are 2 different things....

Mystri, what kiwis are saying the ABs are the best sports team in the world ever? I don't think any of us are. I certainly wouldn't dream of saying that and I am under no illusions about where rugby sits in world sport.

mystiroakey wrote:

Taylorman wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:Oh ebop they are 100% IMO - football has moved on so much and is so competitive- to win 3 major tournies in the spin is mind blowing.

Many other teams may stick in the mind as great(for example brazil back in peles day) but there were in eras that lacked professionalism, fitness and competition.

over what period are they 100%. Your criteria is a little grey mysti.Have you personally decided that the measure of all sporting sides is to win 3 specific tournaments? How is that logoical or even remotely fair? Very selective reasoning methinks.

ABs are 100% this year and have every trophy they play for:
Bledisloe cup- since 2002
World Cup - never lost a match
Rugby Championship-never lost a match in two years
Dave Gal Cup
Freedom Cup
and now the Hillary Shld

Its an amazing record- but for the factors i mentioned i put spain above them.

Well then, next time England valiantly lose at home to Spain, the bbc can copy & paste their article.

On another note given the crowd thinking that drowning the ABs haka out with swing low shows they dont get the meaning of it...again. On that basis...glad the ABs had the final word- for that crowd at least.

Swinging low alright... 

The story's have been rife recently Ebop..

GE that isnt the way our media operates for football! Its doom and gloom or we are the greatest- nothing measured is allowed!!

Taylor- boo the haka

GeordieFalcon wrote:Hood,

Ok I accept Tomkins wasn't great...however of your list :

JJ isn't near the form he showed when he came on the scene, wish suggests he isn't that good
Daly who should have been there is playing FB
Your nan...well ive never seen her play so cant comment.


There is no other 13's who are playing consistently well and playing at 13. Eastmond? How is he playing. Im disappointed Lowe never got a chance I rate him highly but hes out for the season.

What other EQ'd 13 are playing week in week out to the reuiqred standard.

And if we play Burrell at 13 then we are doing what we keep criticising Lancaster for doing...playing players out of position.

Trinder has been on better form, JJ's form has been v average...and he's still more of a threat, and finally, my nan is pulling up trees. So 3 solid options. Fair point on not playing people out of position. I hope Daly fixes on one because he looks class to me. I wouldn't play Burrell anywhere personally, his basic skills are still way off.

The twickenham crowd can afford to be obnoxious, they're just lying in wait to celebrate the World Cup England will win there in 2015 right? Remembering that winning RWC's at home is so easy and meritless.

GloriousEmpire wrote:The twickenham crowd can afford to be obnoxious, they're just lying in wait to celebrate the World Cup England will win there in 2015 right? Remembering that winning RWC's at home is so easy and meritless.

Great point mate

Isnt it amazing how every feckin thread on this site turns to utter drivel....

Sorry , partially my bad GF

mystiroakey wrote:

Taylorman wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:Oh ebop they are 100% IMO - football has moved on so much and is so competitive- to win 3 major tournies in the spin is mind blowing.

Many other teams may stick in the mind as great(for example brazil back in peles day) but there were in eras that lacked professionalism, fitness and competition.

over what period are they 100%. Your criteria is a little grey mysti.Have you personally decided that the measure of all sporting sides is to win 3 specific tournaments? How is that logoical or even remotely fair? Very selective reasoning methinks.

ABs are 100% this year and have every trophy they play for:
Bledisloe cup- since 2002
World Cup - never lost a match
Rugby Championship-never lost a match in two years
Dave Gal Cup
Freedom Cup
and now the Hillary Shld

Its an amazing record- but for the factors i mentioned i put spain above them.

what factors..and its not the best sporting team- because that is subjective.
It is the most successful sporting team. % of wins over time.

How do you not get that?

GeordieFalcon wrote:Isnt it amazing how every feckin thread on this site turns to utter drivel....

Par for the course I'm afraid.....  

Let's get it back on track.

Anyone else feel that the comparisons between lancaster's lot and the RWC winning England side of a decade ago were perhaps a bit premature?

mystiroakey wrote:The story's have been rife recently Ebop..

GE that isnt the way our media operates for football! Its doom and gloom or we are the greatest- nothing measured is allowed!!

Taylor- boo the haka

no worries they did...and who's heads were swinging low on the way out..ha ha. 'clowns' was all i could think of when they lit up. And Savea sure shut them up in quick time...you guys are funny sometimes...bit like the underwood wink...except this time it was 70,000 winks.

only the english know exactly the wrong buttons to press...

Taylorman wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:

Taylorman wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:Oh ebop they are 100% IMO - football has moved on so much and is so competitive- to win 3 major tournies in the spin is mind blowing.

Many other teams may stick in the mind as great(for example brazil back in peles day) but there were in eras that lacked professionalism, fitness and competition.

over what period are they 100%. Your criteria is a little grey mysti.Have you personally decided that the measure of all sporting sides is to win 3 specific tournaments? How is that logoical or even remotely fair? Very selective reasoning methinks.

ABs are 100% this year and have every trophy they play for:
Bledisloe cup- since 2002
World Cup - never lost a match
Rugby Championship-never lost a match in two years
Dave Gal Cup
Freedom Cup
and now the Hillary Shld

Its an amazing record- but for the factors i mentioned i put spain above them.

what factors..and its not the best sporting team- because that is subjective.
It is the most successful sporting team. % of wins over time.

How do you not get that?

As pointed out 3 times, that's irrelevant - the scoring systems are very different in different sports,

close games in rugby would be draws in football, and there is such a thing as friendlies in football.

BUt yes I agree NZRU win record is the best- nothing to discuss there though as its a nonsense thing to talk about because it doesn't mean anything in comparison to other sports.

Not sure why you have such a hard time understanding that

GloriousEmpire wrote:Let's get it back on track.

Anyone else feel that the comparisons between lancaster's lot and the RWC winning England side of a decade ago were perhaps a bit premature?

What, who (by) and where were these comparisons made?

To be fair to the twickenham crowd. Half of them know so little about what's going on that they probably heard the best team in history was coming, and mistakenly thought they'd bought tickets to see Spain play football.

The group hysteria thing seems big in England for whatever reason. Every morning 8 million people in London decide to get up and all be terrible at their jobs in unison, for example. A few thousand sheep singing a vaguely racist song in a culturally inappropriate way is nothing to get steamed about.

GloriousEmpire wrote:To be fair to the twickenham crowd. Half of them know so little about what's going on that they probably heard the best team in history was coming, and mistakenly thought they'd bought tickets to see Spain play football.

The group hysteria thing seems big in England for whatever reason. Every morning 8 million people in London decide to get up and all be terrible at their jobs in unison, for example. A few thousand sheep singing a vaguely racist song in a culturally inappropriate way is nothing to get steamed about.

and you are better than these people dude?

[laugh]

pot kettle

mystiroakey wrote:

Taylorman wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:

Taylorman wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:Oh ebop they are 100% IMO - football has moved on so much and is so competitive- to win 3 major tournies in the spin is mind blowing.

Many other teams may stick in the mind as great(for example brazil back in peles day) but there were in eras that lacked professionalism, fitness and competition.

over what period are they 100%. Your criteria is a little grey mysti.Have you personally decided that the measure of all sporting sides is to win 3 specific tournaments? How is that logoical or even remotely fair? Very selective reasoning methinks.

ABs are 100% this year and have every trophy they play for:
Bledisloe cup- since 2002
World Cup - never lost a match
Rugby Championship-never lost a match in two years
Dave Gal Cup
Freedom Cup
and now the Hillary Shld

Its an amazing record- but for the factors i mentioned i put spain above them.

what factors..and its not the best sporting team- because that is subjective.
It is the most successful sporting team. % of wins over time.

How do you not get that?

As pointed out 3 times, that's irrelevant - the scoring systems are very different in different sports,

close games in rugby would be draws in football, and there is such a thing as friendlies in football.

BUt yes I agree NZRU  win record is the best- nothing to discuss there though as its a nonsense thing to talk about because it doesn't mean anything in comparison to other sports.

Not sure why you have such a hard time understanding that

no mysti its you clouding the question. Its simple. Which sporting team has the highest winning percentage over time. Now there isnt a sport that i can think of that doesnt have a win or loss result. Soccer, for example. If one side scores more goals than the other it is called a win.
If they dont, it is a draw or a loss.

So, what is Spains record on that very easy to understand basis?

GloriousEmpire wrote:To be fair to the twickenham crowd. Half of them know so little about what's going on that they probably heard the best team in history was coming, and mistakenly thought they'd bought tickets to see Spain play football.

To be fair, 3.93 million of them headed out for Cardiff.


















Boy were they surprised to see that last minute goal by Finland

Taylorman wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:

Taylorman wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:

Taylorman wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:Oh ebop they are 100% IMO - football has moved on so much and is so competitive- to win 3 major tournies in the spin is mind blowing.

Many other teams may stick in the mind as great(for example brazil back in peles day) but there were in eras that lacked professionalism, fitness and competition.

over what period are they 100%. Your criteria is a little grey mysti.Have you personally decided that the measure of all sporting sides is to win 3 specific tournaments? How is that logoical or even remotely fair? Very selective reasoning methinks.

ABs are 100% this year and have every trophy they play for:
Bledisloe cup- since 2002
World Cup - never lost a match
Rugby Championship-never lost a match in two years
Dave Gal Cup
Freedom Cup
and now the Hillary Shld

Its an amazing record- but for the factors i mentioned i put spain above them.

what factors..and its not the best sporting team- because that is subjective.
It is the most successful sporting team. % of wins over time.

How do you not get that?

As pointed out 3 times, that's irrelevant - the scoring systems are very different in different sports,

close games in rugby would be draws in football, and there is such a thing as friendlies in football.

BUt yes I agree NZRU  win record is the best- nothing to discuss there though as its a nonsense thing to talk about because it doesn't mean anything in comparison to other sports.

Not sure why you have such a hard time understanding that

no mysti its you clouding the question. Its simple. Which sporting team has the highest winning percentage over time. Now there isnt a sport that i can think of that doesnt have a win or loss result. Soccer, for example. If one side scores more goals than the other it is called a win.
If they dont, it is a draw or a loss.

So, what is Spains record on that very easy to understand basis?

nz do- but its irrelevant and means nothing in comparison to footballing teams and who is the better team.. If you want an intelligent debate you have to actually work out what matters. Win % own its own inst a valid comparison stat as mentioned so many times.

Can you not see that?

Honestly?

Don't forget Mysti, that we don't know how they defined greatest team ever, but I'm sure it'll have been in a way that suits them.

Anyway, what I think we learned today and last year is that we can take on the All Blacks this summer as underdogs certainly but with hope definitely. We've got to get the backs sorted but Twelvetrees is finding his feet at this level and I think we've settled a few more positions than we had before the AIs. Launchbury, Marler, Lawes, Billy V., Brown all showed they'd got something at this level. 12trees made good progress and Farrell is still improving. Long way to go. still. but we're starting to have a solid group and it feels to me like there really is the potential for this side to do well.

Now, if we just discover that Manu and 12trees click together, Yarde and Wade set the world on fire and Farrell gets game reading specs and we'll really have something to talk about! 

Yes if all that happens you might nearly be as good as Spain.

"Now, if we just discover that Manu and 12trees click together, Yarde and Wade set the world on fire and Farrell gets game reading specs and we'll really have something to talk about!"

I would crack open a heineken for that team

mystiroakey wrote:

Taylorman wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:

Taylorman wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:

Taylorman wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:Oh ebop they are 100% IMO - football has moved on so much and is so competitive- to win 3 major tournies in the spin is mind blowing.

Many other teams may stick in the mind as great(for example brazil back in peles day) but there were in eras that lacked professionalism, fitness and competition.

over what period are they 100%. Your criteria is a little grey mysti.Have you personally decided that the measure of all sporting sides is to win 3 specific tournaments? How is that logoical or even remotely fair? Very selective reasoning methinks.

ABs are 100% this year and have every trophy they play for:
Bledisloe cup- since 2002
World Cup - never lost a match
Rugby Championship-never lost a match in two years
Dave Gal Cup
Freedom Cup
and now the Hillary Shld

Its an amazing record- but for the factors i mentioned i put spain above them.

what factors..and its not the best sporting team- because that is subjective.
It is the most successful sporting team. % of wins over time.

How do you not get that?

As pointed out 3 times, that's irrelevant - the scoring systems are very different in different sports,

close games in rugby would be draws in football, and there is such a thing as friendlies in football.

BUt yes I agree NZRU  win record is the best- nothing to discuss there though as its a nonsense thing to talk about because it doesn't mean anything in comparison to other sports.

Not sure why you have such a hard time understanding that

no mysti its you clouding the question. Its simple. Which sporting team has the highest winning percentage over time. Now there isnt a sport that i can think of that doesnt have a win or loss result. Soccer, for example. If one side scores more goals than the other it is called a win.
If they dont, it is a draw or a loss.

So, what is Spains record on that very easy to understand basis?

nz do- but its irrelevant and means nothing in comparison to footballing teams and who is the better team.. If you want an intelligent debate you have to actually work out what matters. Win % own its own  inst a valid comparison stat as mentioned so many times.

Can you not see that?

Honestly?

Thank you. Of course there are comparisons that cant be made. But some can- winning % is THE one common to all.
My original point was NZ are the most successful sporting team in history on that basis.
Thats all the point was. 'Best' cannot be measured. For the very confusing reasons you are giving. %win is crystal clear- across any sport.

Taylorman- we had a GOAT sportsman debate on here- and I am hoping we have a GOAT team one.

and this NZ team and this SPAIN team will be big favs for the title!!

mystiroakey wrote:"Now, if we just discover that Manu and 12trees click together, Yarde and Wade set the world on fire and Farrell gets game reading specs and we'll really have something to talk about!"

I would crack open a heineken for that team

Davies, Roberts, North, Cuthbert, Biggar..... better crack the Carlsberg Export IMHO....

RDSguru wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:"Now, if we just discover that Manu and 12trees click together, Yarde and Wade set the world on fire and Farrell gets game reading specs and we'll really have something to talk about!"

I would crack open a heineken for that team

Davies, Roberts, North, Cuthbert, Biggar..... better crack the Carlsberg Export IMHO....

And very fine they are too. Should be a good Six Nations. Wales have been the better side recently but we are young and improving and we're hard on your heels.   

Cowshot wrote:

RDSguru wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:"Now, if we just discover that Manu and 12trees click together, Yarde and Wade set the world on fire and Farrell gets game reading specs and we'll really have something to talk about!"

I would crack open a heineken for that team

Davies, Roberts, North, Cuthbert, Biggar..... better crack the Carlsberg Export IMHO....

And very fine they are too. Should be a good Six Nations. Wales have been the better side recently but we are young and improving and we're hard on your heels.   

And they are young too... with a tad of experience.. and improving too... looking forward to 6n's and the cracking of Champagne.... Roberts should be able to get some Duty Free. North should be able to bring some Red Rosè over the bridge too.

mystiroakey wrote:"Now, if we just discover that Manu and 12trees click together, Yarde and Wade set the world on fire and Farrell gets game reading specs and we'll really have something to talk about!"

I would crack open a heineken for that team

I can't go there with you mate.
Reason?
I don't like Heineken. I might share a Boddingtons's, however.

But debating soccer, even to make a point on the Rugby forum, is verboten.
Auto-flagellate please.

which is better than auto-flatulate.

I shall have some virtuous herbal tea as a nightcap and head to bed a much happier supporter than I expected to be after a loss. Hopefully mental pictures of autoflatulation don't keep me awake too long. 

Oh, and Dickson seemed much more comfortable too. May have found someone there...

Taylorman wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:The all blacks are the best team in sporting history by the kiwis.. This is not a uk story but a kiwi one. And no you are miles off being the best sporting team ever. But the kiwis literally have nothing else so it's understandable that they grab on to this Schtick.

Theres a challenge mysti...name one major, or other, sporting side who for over 100 years has the % winning rate of the ABs, which currently at 76.1%.
Or, who in the years of pro rugby a record of 83%. (92% at home).

Who is this side they are miles off?

Kangaroos are the only team I know of with a better record- think it will be over 90% of all matches they have ever played

GloriousEmpire wrote:To be fair to the twickenham crowd. Half of them know so little about what's going on that they probably heard the best team in history was coming, and mistakenly thought they'd bought tickets to see Spain play football.

The group hysteria thing seems big in England for whatever reason. Every morning 8 million people in London decide to get up and all be terrible at their jobs in unison, for example. A few thousand sheep singing a vaguely racist song in a culturally inappropriate way is nothing to get steamed about.

Hey! Some of them are bad at their jobs unintentinally!

Also, wouldn't you be included in that 8million? Or are you alone free from generalistic, offensive and incorrect abuse?

Reflecting on England's progression in November, Lancaster noted how new combinations had been tested but admitted than an opportunity to replicate last year's surprise win over the All Blacks hadn't been taken.

"You have to look at some of the players we've got missing and some of the new combinations we had, Billy Twelvetrees and Joel Tomkins playing for the first time together in this series," said Lancaster.

"But the over-riding feeling in the dressing room is one of disappointment but that is just how far we've come as a team.

"Credit to New Zealand they are a champion side and they showed it in the end. If you went into the England dressing room, we are desperately disappointed to have lost to a team that has been unbeaten all season.

"Our belief in ourselves and the direction we are going is positive. The players have been great role models and they play with pride and character every time they pull on an England shirt.

"We talk about belief in building a team. when you are putting the jigsaw together of building a team we are definitely moving in the right direction.

"You've got pride in the shirt, a great coaching team and backroom staff and a Twickenham crowd 100 per cent behind the team.

"All those things help in piecing the jigsaw together to be the best you can be when the World Cup comes around.

"It's been about winning here and now but also building the team to win in 2015 and that is our aim.

"We were sixth in the world when we started, third in the world now, pushing second where I think we should be.

"That was the stated aim by the end of this season. We've got the Six Nations to go, a tour to New Zealand and if we keep progressing that should be achievable."