From an England Perspective - What Have We learned Today

First topic message reminder :

Well, first and foremost why the ABs are No.1 and likely to stay there.

What we must aspire to, to join them at the top.

We have strength in depth at loosehead, Marler played well and he is our 3rd choice.

T. Youngs needs to stay at Tigers for a bit until his throwing is consistent enough to play at this level, perhaps they could stretch him a couple of inches s well. Webber must get his chance.

Lawes and Launchberry are the best pairing at lock we have, Lawes was world class today. Parling is not an impact sub, Attwood or an equivalent is needed

Billy Vunipolo and Morgan are both very good 8s

Dickson is the way forward if we want a fast paced game, bringing forwards and backs into the game at pace.

Farrell can attack as well as kick, but needs to stop these lateral runs that go nowhere, much better 2nd half, tried to take it straighter

36 may have the 12 shirt again next year, if he plays like today and not last week.

Tomkins is not close to this level, yet at least. there are a least three better backs out there now, not including Manu. A failed experiment that needs to be stopped.

Ashton, played better, but still few runs following the ball carrier,  runs back against the flow when ball moving laterally.

Brown is top class

Foden can cover wing, but is a full back

We need more cover at 9, Youngs is not doing it anymore, he ha been found out I think.

Flood cannot hack it at this level.



We are getting there if we can keep up the intensity, but too many mistake and poor choice replacements.

GloriousEmpire wrote:Let's get it back on track.

Anyone else feel that the comparisons between lancaster's lot and the RWC winning England side of a decade ago were perhaps a bit premature?

No - I think this england team have the potential to be very good indeed. they are short of some creativity in the backs but otherwise they are getting to be amongst the best in the world. A very good forwards performance but weaker in the backs yesterday. the game has oved on since 2003 and more is needed of a team nowadays. a ten man game will not beat the top sides

Still a bit disappointed from yesterday, but also encouraged.  The match was right there...........
I think this was England's best match is a long time (and a great match from a fan's perspective). Clearly England were extraordinary at hitting the breakdown hard and quick, and getting the ball out of there to forwards (usually) coming on at speed.

Marler was a bit of a surprise, maybe the new scrum laws suit him?  Hope so.  
Cole was there, did his bit well, but was not an attacking force.  Was in a lot of rucks.
Hartley was terrific.  Zipped the lip for the most part and played a heck of a match.  The critical grunt we need more of.  

Both second rows were good.  Lawes was very good, again the match he needed to show everyone, physical and smart.  

The back row took a brunt of the physical beating and were also very good.  Nice to see two Number 8s play so well.  Billy V. looked real good.  So young and already very good.  If Morgan can get into better game shape, a wicked two headed monster.  

Dickson was another who had to show, and did.  First time he really showed how he plays at Saints.  But we need to see this repeatedly.  I do appreciate him validating the confidence I have always had with him.  I think Youngs is not yet on form.  We need our 9s with different styles.  Youngs on form is a very good player.  

That feckin Brown.  I still think he looks crazy, but just played three tests in a row and is clearly the England 15 for now.  

We still have a lot to improve, yet the cherry was there for the picking. With these in mind, we were so close.  
I have to believe, finally, the future is.............bright.

A lot can be taken from the way England reacted to going 14 points down after 15 mins... Many sides could have fallen apart then. They stuck at it and got back in the game.

fa0019 wrote:A lot can be taken from the way England reacted to going 14 points down after 15 mins... Many sides could have fallen apart then. They stuck at it and got back in the game.

agree, mate. Comes from inside.

Having slept on it I'm still very happy with yesterday's performance and have to whole hearted agree with FA/Doc/ Cowshot (to name a few). The future looks much brighter today! Six Nations will be huge with Wales now looking in ominous form...

I thought Morgan and Vunipola were good but I'd like to see one of them fit enough to play 80 minutes.

If we always have to play the other on the bench, we aren't giving ourselves great cover on the openside if Robshaw gets hurt in a game.

If that had happened yesterday, I suppose it would have been Tom Wood who moved over but he hasn't got the experience at seven to do more than a holding job.

doctor_grey wrote:

fa0019 wrote:A lot can be taken from the way England reacted to going 14 points down after 15 mins... Many sides could have fallen apart then. They stuck at it and got back in the game.

agree, mate.  Comes from inside.  

3-17 down against the best in the world, and it finished with England being disappointed not to win.

Just shows how high the level of ambition is and the sheer belief that exists in the current England set-up. Hasn't been like this for a decade or so.

Targets for next year? Replicate this type of performance over 80 minutes consistently (key word).
Win the Grand Slam - it's a must, and England surely will if they keep this up.
Win every Autumn International.
And maybe, just maybe, win a Test Match in New Zealand - the hardest objective of the lot!

Duty281 wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:

fa0019 wrote:A lot can be taken from the way England reacted to going 14 points down after 15 mins... Many sides could have fallen apart then. They stuck at it and got back in the game.

agree, mate.  Comes from inside.  

3-17 down against the best in the world, and it finished with England being disappointed not to win.

Just shows how high the level of ambition is and the sheer belief that exists in the current England set-up. Hasn't been like this for a decade or so.

Targets for next year? Replicate this type of performance over 80 minutes consistently (key word).
Win the Grand Slam - it's a must, and England surely will if they keep this up.
Win every Autumn International.
And maybe, just maybe, win a Test Match in New Zealand - the hardest objective of the lot!

Surely the selection of a creative attacking backline able to execute under pressure and score tries will be the litmus test that will define Lancaster as a coach and this generations attempt to win the 2015 WC?

I have no confidence in Lancaster as a selector.

For the 6N I would select Youngs Burns Wade Twelvetrees Burrell Yarde with the incredible never to be ignored Brown at fb (Brown is an outrageous rugby play though for all his mercurial bravery allusive slipperyness he is still weak as a true attacking foil in the classic sense).

doctor_grey wrote:Still a bit disappointed from yesterday, but also encouraged.  The match was right there...........
I think this was England's best match is a long time (and a great match from a fan's perspective).  Clearly England were extraordinary at hitting the breakdown hard and quick, and getting the ball out of there to forwards (usually) coming on at speed.

Marler was a bit of a surprise, maybe the new scrum laws suit him?  Hope so.  
Cole was there, did his bit well, but was not an attacking force.  Was in a lot of rucks.
Hartley was terrific.  Zipped the lip for the most part and played a heck of a match.  The critical grunt we need more of.  

Both second rows were good.  Lawes was very good, again the match he needed to show everyone, physical and smart.  

The back row took a brunt of the physical beating and were also very good.  Nice to see two Number 8s play so well.  Billy V. looked real good.  So young and already very good.  If Morgan can get into better game shape, a wicked two headed monster.  

Dickson was another who had to show, and did.  First time he really showed how he plays at Saints.  But we need to see this repeatedly.  I do appreciate him validating the confidence I have always had with him.  I think Youngs is not yet on form.  We need our 9s with different styles.  Youngs on form is a very good player.  

That feckin Brown.  I still think he looks crazy, but just played three tests in a row and is clearly the England 15 for now.  

We still have a lot to improve, yet the cherry was there for the picking.  With these in mind, we were so close.  
I have to believe, finally, the future is.............bright.

I think England's work at the breakdown was irritating. As mentioned by many other NZ fans and Steve Hansen himself. The referees seem to be allowing them to do illegal things at the breakdown simply because there are so many of them there. The volume of players is seen as some kind of "dominance" and they're being allowed to do things that they're not allowed to do as individuals. My feeling is that this will be looked at once the points are made and that we are unlikely to see England get away with this for long.

I'm sorry but the fact is that it's a one trick pony at the moment. Just big guys running straight. As I've said look at vunipola and Morgan. Both frankly just big unfit lumps who use momentum to crash over the gain line.

Fair up the breakdown and these tubs of lard will be run tagged in 15 minutes lumbering after shaddows.

GloriousEmpire wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:Still a bit disappointed from yesterday, but also encouraged.  The match was right there...........
I think this was England's best match is a long time (and a great match from a fan's perspective).  Clearly England were extraordinary at hitting the breakdown hard and quick, and getting the ball out of there to forwards (usually) coming on at speed.

Marler was a bit of a surprise, maybe the new scrum laws suit him?  Hope so.  
Cole was there, did his bit well, but was not an attacking force.  Was in a lot of rucks.
Hartley was terrific.  Zipped the lip for the most part and played a heck of a match.  The critical grunt we need more of.  

Both second rows were good.  Lawes was very good, again the match he needed to show everyone, physical and smart.  

The back row took a brunt of the physical beating and were also very good.  Nice to see two Number 8s play so well.  Billy V. looked real good.  So young and already very good.  If Morgan can get into better game shape, a wicked two headed monster.  

Dickson was another who had to show, and did.  First time he really showed how he plays at Saints.  But we need to see this repeatedly.  I do appreciate him validating the confidence I have always had with him.  I think Youngs is not yet on form.  We need our 9s with different styles.  Youngs on form is a very good player.  

That feckin Brown.  I still think he looks crazy, but just played three tests in a row and is clearly the England 15 for now.  

We still have a lot to improve, yet the cherry was there for the picking.  With these in mind, we were so close.  
I have to believe, finally, the future is.............bright.

I think England's work at the breakdown was irritating. As mentioned by many other NZ fans and Steve Hansen himself. The referees seem to be allowing them to do illegal things at the breakdown simply because there are so many of them there. The volume of players is seen as some kind of "dominance" and they're being allowed to do things that they're not allowed to do as individuals.  My feeling is that this will be looked at once the points are made and that we are unlikely to see England get away with this for long.

I'm sorry but the fact is that it's a one trick pony at the moment. Just big guys running straight. As I've said look at vunipola and Morgan. Both frankly just big unfit lumps who use momentum to crash over the gain line.

Fair up the breakdown and these tubs of lard will be run tagged in 15 minutes lumbering after shaddows.

Pretty effective trick if you can master it. SA won 2 world cups off the back of it.

GloriousEmpire wrote:I'm sorry

Yes. I know.

Is that a kiwi complaining about another team being irritating and illegal at the break down...frame that one!!!

GloriousEmpire wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:Still a bit disappointed from yesterday, but also encouraged.  The match was right there...........
I think this was England's best match is a long time (and a great match from a fan's perspective).  Clearly England were extraordinary at hitting the breakdown hard and quick, and getting the ball out of there to forwards (usually) coming on at speed.

Marler was a bit of a surprise, maybe the new scrum laws suit him?  Hope so.  
Cole was there, did his bit well, but was not an attacking force.  Was in a lot of rucks.
Hartley was terrific.  Zipped the lip for the most part and played a heck of a match.  The critical grunt we need more of.  

Both second rows were good.  Lawes was very good, again the match he needed to show everyone, physical and smart.  

The back row took a brunt of the physical beating and were also very good.  Nice to see two Number 8s play so well.  Billy V. looked real good.  So young and already very good.  If Morgan can get into better game shape, a wicked two headed monster.  

Dickson was another who had to show, and did.  First time he really showed how he plays at Saints.  But we need to see this repeatedly.  I do appreciate him validating the confidence I have always had with him.  I think Youngs is not yet on form.  We need our 9s with different styles.  Youngs on form is a very good player.  

That feckin Brown.  I still think he looks crazy, but just played three tests in a row and is clearly the England 15 for now.  

We still have a lot to improve, yet the cherry was there for the picking.  With these in mind, we were so close.  
I have to believe, finally, the future is.............bright.

I think England's work at the breakdown was irritating. As mentioned by many other NZ fans and Steve Hansen himself. The referees seem to be allowing them to do illegal things at the breakdown simply because there are so many of them there. The volume of players is seen as some kind of "dominance" and they're being allowed to do things that they're not allowed to do as individuals.  My feeling is that this will be looked at once the points are made and that we are unlikely to see England get away with this for long.

I'm sorry but the fact is that it's a one trick pony at the moment. Just big guys running straight. As I've said look at vunipola and Morgan. Both frankly just big unfit lumps who use momentum to crash over the gain line.

Fair up the breakdown and these tubs of lard will be run tagged in 15 minutes lumbering after shaddows.

I think it's a fair point that with the numbers of players we're committing it does make the ref's job very difficult, particularly in spotting when we go off our feet or enter from the side. Definitely spotted one of each that went unnoticed. I actually think this is something the ABs did a few years back very well,especially every player going off their feet and/or 'clearing out' players about 20 metres behind the contact point. So I'm going to put this in the category of McCaw like 'streetwise' rather than anything else. Agree that this will be looked at, the last time we comfortably bossed the breakdown the rules were scrutinised to benefit the SH. We know how it works.

Anyway, the crime is the punishment as you've noted yourself. We commit so many to the rucks that we have little to then launch attacks.

Morgan and BV are not fit enough, but big guys running straight and on to the ball at pace is a step up from our usual big guys at a snail's pace. I actually think Ewers will put pressure on them, he has a great engine, is very physical and I believe is good enough for this level. But 'who use momentum to crash over the gain line' is an odd comment - I think that's what all players try and do? It beats the usual standing start dross we serve up. The fact is they are not fit enough to go toe-to-toe with someone like Read for 80 mins. Read has a great engine, but he also loiters on the wing a lot, so it's no surprise. But what was encouraging for me was that for a decent spell, your lot just couldn't stop BV on the gain line. Sadly we don't have ANY players who can then exploit this in our current camp, but seeing a fired up ABs pack get kicked around the playground, even for 40 mins, is something I would be worried about as an AB fan.

In the end, I was actually very disappointed by the ABs. Justin Marshall was talking of them being your best ever side, I cannot believe that is true. The pack is OK but looks like it's really slowing down - Read is a huge stand-out but McCaw is, I worry, not the player he was. I'd like to see Kaino/Luatua put pressure on Messam (great against SA but consistently good? Don't think so). Your front row is OK but are there players coming through for Woodcock and Mealamu? Not sure.

I think we can't be too pleased, when we go to your place you'll be 20% better at least I'm sure. But IF we ever get a genuine backs coach and pick players with pace and creativity (we do have some, not many), we'll be a far better team. The ABs I think are on a downward curve, but the plus is that if McCaw, Mealamu etc are now below their best, their replacements may be slightly better than their current level, if not their previous best.

Forgot to say, congrats on your win. I'd like Ireland to beat you but equally would be a helluva run if you go the full year. I think the ABs have been involved in some cracking, entertaining games this year and they are the common denominator. Rugby is at least 50% better for having your lot.

Biggest concern to me is the backs coach.

Even before his injury Manu was pretty much just a spectator and used mainly to hit rucks throughout the 6N's. Tomkins seems to be carrying that on.

We seem to have no plays to use off our pretty solid set piece either and our 10s don't seem to have practiced many moves.

Lastly our back three create zilch when returning kicks, which is really the only chance they'll get at Int level for broken play rugby.

I think we have the players out there, but this close the the RWC do we have the time for the coaches to figure out a plan for the backs?

On rewatching the game, our bench were Poopie

ChequeredJersey wrote:On rewatching the game, our bench were Poopie

morgan made some impact, but the rest were very forgettable.

yappysnap wrote:Biggest concern to me is the backs coach.

Even before his injury Manu was pretty much just a spectator and used mainly to hit rucks throughout the 6N's. Tomkins seems to be carrying that on.

We seem to have no plays to use off our pretty solid set piece either and our 10s don't seem to have practiced many moves.

Lastly our back three create zilch when returning kicks, which is really the only chance they'll get at Int level for broken play rugby.

I think we have the players out there, but this close the the RWC do we have the time for the coaches to figure out a plan for the backs?

Agree entirely. I honestly have no idea what Catt is doing but we're going backwards here. No set plays, poor handling and lots of crabbing. Not good enough

We have literally one move which seems copied straight from Australia. The 10 delays a pass back to a player about 10 yards behind a screen of blockers that player can then make the choice of what to do with the ball with hopefully a slightly muddled defense in front. In reality it just puts us 10 yards back with a guy with the ball on his own without a clue what to do with it.

yappysnap wrote:We have literally one move which seems copied straight from Australia. The 10 delays a pass back to a player about 10 yards behind a screen of blockers that player can then make the choice of what to do with the ball with hopefully a slightly muddled defense in front. In reality it just puts us 10 yards back with a guy with the ball on his own without a clue what to do with it.

i saw that play.
We are good at it.

quinsforever wrote:

ChequeredJersey wrote:On rewatching the game, our bench were Poopie

morgan made some impact, but the rest were very forgettable.

I wish I could forget Tom Young's contribution. He managed turn an effective line-out into a weakness.

GloriousEmpire wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:Still a bit disappointed from yesterday, but also encouraged.  The match was right there...........
I think this was England's best match is a long time (and a great match from a fan's perspective).  Clearly England were extraordinary at hitting the breakdown hard and quick, and getting the ball out of there to forwards (usually) coming on at speed.

Marler was a bit of a surprise, maybe the new scrum laws suit him?  Hope so.  
Cole was there, did his bit well, but was not an attacking force.  Was in a lot of rucks.
Hartley was terrific.  Zipped the lip for the most part and played a heck of a match.  The critical grunt we need more of.  

Both second rows were good.  Lawes was very good, again the match he needed to show everyone, physical and smart.  

The back row took a brunt of the physical beating and were also very good.  Nice to see two Number 8s play so well.  Billy V. looked real good.  So young and already very good.  If Morgan can get into better game shape, a wicked two headed monster.  

Dickson was another who had to show, and did.  First time he really showed how he plays at Saints.  But we need to see this repeatedly.  I do appreciate him validating the confidence I have always had with him.  I think Youngs is not yet on form.  We need our 9s with different styles.  Youngs on form is a very good player.  

That feckin Brown.  I still think he looks crazy, but just played three tests in a row and is clearly the England 15 for now.  

We still have a lot to improve, yet the cherry was there for the picking.  With these in mind, we were so close.  
I have to believe, finally, the future is.............bright.

I think England's work at the breakdown was irritating. As mentioned by many other NZ fans and Steve Hansen himself. The referees seem to be allowing them to do illegal things at the breakdown simply because there are so many of them there. The volume of players is seen as some kind of "dominance" and they're being allowed to do things that they're not allowed to do as individuals.  My feeling is that this will be looked at once the points are made and that we are unlikely to see England get away with this for long.

I'm sorry but the fact is that it's a one trick pony at the moment. Just big guys running straight. As I've said look at vunipola and Morgan. Both frankly just big unfit lumps who use momentum to crash over the gain line.

Fair up the breakdown and these tubs of lard will be run tagged in 15 minutes lumbering after shaddows.

McCaw has been cheating at the breakdown for years and only ever seems to be praised for it.

Ah! And now we're into the classics. It's a real All Blacks tour now!

    

GloriousEmpire wrote:I think England's work at the breakdown was irritating.

Um, that's the idea.

GeordieFalcon wrote:Is that a kiwi complaining about another team being irritating and illegal at the break down...frame that one!!!

No I'm suggesting the referee did a Bryce Lawrence on us. Let England do whatever they wanted. Perhaps he should step down.

    

GloriousEmpire wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:Is that a kiwi complaining about another team being irritating and illegal at the break down...frame that one!!!

No I'm suggesting the referee did a Bryce Lawrence on us. Let England do whatever they wanted. Perhaps he should step down.

Not sure we'd have any refs left if we got rid of all those who've incurred your wrath GE!

All we here from Kiwis is "play to the Referees whistle"...or "the Ab's go beyond the laws without getting caught,..that's the sign of a top side".

Yet when its done to them....its disgraceful....ha ha ha classic.

Exiledinborders wrote:

GloriousEmpire wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:Still a bit disappointed from yesterday, but also encouraged.  The match was right there...........
I think this was England's best match is a long time (and a great match from a fan's perspective).  Clearly England were extraordinary at hitting the breakdown hard and quick, and getting the ball out of there to forwards (usually) coming on at speed.

Marler was a bit of a surprise, maybe the new scrum laws suit him?  Hope so.  
Cole was there, did his bit well, but was not an attacking force.  Was in a lot of rucks.
Hartley was terrific.  Zipped the lip for the most part and played a heck of a match.  The critical grunt we need more of.  

Both second rows were good.  Lawes was very good, again the match he needed to show everyone, physical and smart.  

The back row took a brunt of the physical beating and were also very good.  Nice to see two Number 8s play so well.  Billy V. looked real good.  So young and already very good.  If Morgan can get into better game shape, a wicked two headed monster.  

Dickson was another who had to show, and did.  First time he really showed how he plays at Saints.  But we need to see this repeatedly.  I do appreciate him validating the confidence I have always had with him.  I think Youngs is not yet on form.  We need our 9s with different styles.  Youngs on form is a very good player.  

That feckin Brown.  I still think he looks crazy, but just played three tests in a row and is clearly the England 15 for now.  

We still have a lot to improve, yet the cherry was there for the picking.  With these in mind, we were so close.  
I have to believe, finally, the future is.............bright.

I think England's work at the breakdown was irritating. As mentioned by many other NZ fans and Steve Hansen himself. The referees seem to be allowing them to do illegal things at the breakdown simply because there are so many of them there. The volume of players is seen as some kind of "dominance" and they're being allowed to do things that they're not allowed to do as individuals.  My feeling is that this will be looked at once the points are made and that we are unlikely to see England get away with this for long.

I'm sorry but the fact is that it's a one trick pony at the moment. Just big guys running straight. As I've said look at vunipola and Morgan. Both frankly just big unfit lumps who use momentum to crash over the gain line.

Fair up the breakdown and these tubs of lard will be run tagged in 15 minutes lumbering after shaddows.

McCaw has been cheating at the breakdown for years and only ever seems to be praised for it.

So the only reason he has been regarded as one of the best players of all time is because he always cheats at the break down  
It's clear when peopel sya thing like this that they don't really understand the game.
I'm suprised a New Zealander hasn't hunted you down all ready

 

Don't feed the troll guys.

I see the mares are moaning about the ref again. It can only mean one thing. England got the better of Nz at the breakdown and they don't like it.

Rugby Fan wrote:I thought Morgan and Vunipola were good but I'd like to see one of them fit enough to play 80 minutes.

If we always have to play the other on the bench, we aren't giving ourselves great cover on the openside if Robshaw gets hurt in a game.

If that had happened yesterday, I suppose it would have been Tom Wood who moved over but he hasn't got the experience at seven to do more than a holding job.

Wood is very experienced at 7, before Robshaw was given the captaincy, he was in direct competition for the 7 jersey with Robshaw, both are 6.5s

Wood would be fine at 7 for England, only issue would be someone making all those tackles Robshaw puts in.

englandglory4ever wrote:I see the mares are moaning about the ref again. It can only mean one thing. England got the better of Nz at the breakdown and they don't like it.

After careful consideration.. yes you are absolutely right. Some NZ fans   are opoplectic about the 'reffing' or as we Poms prefer to call it kickass rucking.

England must have paid there subs...theyre getting the rubs from the refs this round thats for sure...

Nonsense

With the Oz and NZ matches I'd say they got the better deal...iffy tries scored, iffy cards issued, iffy touch calls...yeah...I'd say thats a fair call. Not that I care...I'd like to assume its swings and roundabouts...

Maybe, yeah, but we'll have a "Round" where we don't get decisions too. C'est la vie

are we really surprised that 80,000 noisy fans gives some home advantage?

was anyone surprised in the rwc final where nz were at home that they got the rub of the green?

better get used to it before rwc2015.

yappysnap wrote:We have literally one move which seems copied straight from Australia. The 10 delays a pass back to a player about 10 yards behind a screen of blockers that player can then make the choice of what to do with the ball with hopefully a slightly muddled defense in front. In reality it just puts us 10 yards back with a guy with the ball on his own without a clue what to do with it.

Wigan RL move ad infinitum

yep, I've learned theres not a lot you can do. If you have the basic opinion that ALL refs:
- dont deliberately favour one side or the other purely for who they are(and I believe they don't)
- do make mistakes, in the same way that players do, sometimes bad ones (which I do)
- do have a difficult and sometimes very unrewarding job (which I do)
- should be subject to the same re-appointment, reselection basis as players do- ie on performance (which I do)...

then I'm ok with it.

The Barnes episode is where I came to that conclusion. McCaws comments that Barnes 'had frozen, gone white as a ghost' and simply hadnt handled the occasion was enough for me.

The vitriolic attacks on refs have no place in the game or in society- Barnes and Lawrence possible the two most serious I'm aware of.

So give em a hard time when theyre off in the same way you would a player that stuffs up, but no more, and praise them when they go well (something the latter the rugby fraternity is generally poor at).

Taylorman wrote:With the Oz and NZ matches I'd say they got the better deal...iffy tries scored, iffy cards issued, iffy touch calls...yeah...I'd say thats a fair call. Not that I care...I'd like to assume its swings and roundabouts...

The best team won on both occasions. and you play to the ref.

Taylorman wrote:England must have paid there subs...theyre getting the rubs from the refs this round thats for sure...

Learning from the best... 

Good to see we're in agreement then. Could have been much worse so overall no harm done.

At international level I think ref errors rarely change the result. And it's natural that supporters of a side tend to notice the errors against them. I think at international level generally the worst effect is to rub salt in the wounds of the losing supporters. There are unfortunate exceptions, but I think the rule is on the whole true.

The ABs have led the way in the modern methods of playing the ref as in so much else in Rugby. So I had to smile at the outrage on these threads when the ABs found the decisions not going as they felt they should. Hoping to see more of it this coming summer, because it'll mean we're doing well on tour!

You're favourites and rightly so. We have a lot to do before then if we are to threaten seriously. But we might.