Scotland v Australia, 23 November
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The v2 Forum :: Sport :: Rugby Union :: International
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Scotland v Australia, 23 November
First topic message reminder :
Scotland v Australia
23 November 2013, KO: 18:00
Murrayfield Stadium, Edinburgh
Referee: Jaco Peyper (RSA)
AR1: Pascal Gauzere (FRA)
AR2: Francisco Pastrana (ARG)
TMO: Geoff Warren (ENG)
LIVE on BBC
A. Teams:
1. Jessies
15 Sean Maitland (Glasgow Warriors) 7 caps, 1 try, 5 points
14 Tommy Seymour (Glasgow Warriors) 4 caps, 2 tries, 10 points
13 Nick De Luca (Edinburgh Rugby) 40 caps, 1 try, 5 points
12 Duncan Taylor (Saracens) 5 caps
11 Sean Lamont (Glasgow Warriors) 81 caps, 12 tries, 60 points
10 Duncan Weir (Glasgow Warriors) 7 caps, 1 try, 2 conversions, 9 points
9 Greig Laidlaw (Edinburgh Rugby) 23 caps, 3 tries, 23 conversions, 49 penalties, 208 points
1 Ryan Grant (Glasgow Warriors) 12 caps
2 Ross Ford (Edinburgh Rugby) 70 caps, 2 tries, 10 points
3 Moray Low (Glasgow Warriors) 22 caps
4 Grant Gilchrist (Edinburgh Rugby)
5 Jim Hamilton (Montpellier) 49 caps, 1 try, 5 points
6 Johnnie Beattie (Montpellier) 25 caps, 3 tries, 15 points
7 Kelly Brown (Saracens) 59 caps, 4 tries, 20 points CAPTAIN
8 David Denton (Edinburgh Rugby) 16 caps
16 Pat MacArthur (Glasgow Warriors) 2 caps
17 Alasdair Dickinson (Edinburgh Rugby) 29 caps, 2 tries, 10 points
18 Euan Murray (Worcester Warriors) 57 caps, 2 tries, 10 points
19 Jonny Gray (Glasgow Warriors)
20 Kieran Low (London Irish) uncapped
21 Chris Cusiter (Glasgow Warriors) 63 caps, 3 tries, 15 points
22 Ruaridh Jackson (Glasgow Warriors) 23 caps, 3 conversions, 2 penalties, 2 drop-goals 18 points
23 Max Evans (Castres) 36 caps, 3 tries, 15 points
2. Wallabies
15 Israel Folau
14 Joe Tomane
13 Christian Leali'ifano
12 Mike Harris
11 Chris Feauai-Sautia
10 Quade Cooper
9 Will Genia
8 Ben Mowen (capt)
7 Michael Hooper
6 Scott Fardy
5 James Horwill
4 Rob Simmons
3 Sekope Kepu
2 Stephen Moore
1 James Slipper
16 Saia Fainga'a
17 Ben Alexander
18 Paddy Ryan
19 Sitaleki Timani
20 Ben McCalman
21 Nic White
22 Nick Phipps
23 Bernard Foley
B. Recent Form - last seven
1. Scotland
Scotland - South Africa 0-28
Scotland - Italy 30-29
South Africa - Scotland 30-17
Samoa - Scotland 27-17
France - Scotland 23-16
Scotland - Wales 18-28
Scotland - Ireland 12-8
2. Australia
15-32 Ireland - Australia
20-13 England - Australia
41-33 New Zealand - Australia
17-54 Argentina - Australia
28-8 South Africa - Australia
14-13 Australia - Argentina
12-38 Australia - South Africa
C. Recent Form - head to head
5 June 2012, Hunter Stadium, Newcastle
Scotland Tour of Australasia
Australia 6 – 9 Scotland
21 November 2009, Murrayfield, Edinburgh
2009 Autumn International
Scotland 9 – 8 Australia
25 November 2006, Murrayfield, Edinburgh
2006 Autumn International
Scotland 15 – 44 Australia
20 November 2004, Hampden Park, Glasgow
2004 Autumn International
Scotland 17 – 31 Australia
6 November 2004, Murrayfield, Edinburgh
2004 Autumn International
Scotland 14 – 31 Australia
Scotland v Australia
23 November 2013, KO: 18:00
Murrayfield Stadium, Edinburgh
Referee: Jaco Peyper (RSA)
AR1: Pascal Gauzere (FRA)
AR2: Francisco Pastrana (ARG)
TMO: Geoff Warren (ENG)
LIVE on BBC
A. Teams:
1. Jessies
15 Sean Maitland (Glasgow Warriors) 7 caps, 1 try, 5 points
14 Tommy Seymour (Glasgow Warriors) 4 caps, 2 tries, 10 points
13 Nick De Luca (Edinburgh Rugby) 40 caps, 1 try, 5 points
12 Duncan Taylor (Saracens) 5 caps
11 Sean Lamont (Glasgow Warriors) 81 caps, 12 tries, 60 points
10 Duncan Weir (Glasgow Warriors) 7 caps, 1 try, 2 conversions, 9 points
9 Greig Laidlaw (Edinburgh Rugby) 23 caps, 3 tries, 23 conversions, 49 penalties, 208 points
1 Ryan Grant (Glasgow Warriors) 12 caps
2 Ross Ford (Edinburgh Rugby) 70 caps, 2 tries, 10 points
3 Moray Low (Glasgow Warriors) 22 caps
4 Grant Gilchrist (Edinburgh Rugby)
5 Jim Hamilton (Montpellier) 49 caps, 1 try, 5 points
6 Johnnie Beattie (Montpellier) 25 caps, 3 tries, 15 points
7 Kelly Brown (Saracens) 59 caps, 4 tries, 20 points CAPTAIN
8 David Denton (Edinburgh Rugby) 16 caps
16 Pat MacArthur (Glasgow Warriors) 2 caps
17 Alasdair Dickinson (Edinburgh Rugby) 29 caps, 2 tries, 10 points
18 Euan Murray (Worcester Warriors) 57 caps, 2 tries, 10 points
19 Jonny Gray (Glasgow Warriors)
20 Kieran Low (London Irish) uncapped
21 Chris Cusiter (Glasgow Warriors) 63 caps, 3 tries, 15 points
22 Ruaridh Jackson (Glasgow Warriors) 23 caps, 3 conversions, 2 penalties, 2 drop-goals 18 points
23 Max Evans (Castres) 36 caps, 3 tries, 15 points
2. Wallabies
15 Israel Folau
14 Joe Tomane
13 Christian Leali'ifano
12 Mike Harris
11 Chris Feauai-Sautia
10 Quade Cooper
9 Will Genia
8 Ben Mowen (capt)
7 Michael Hooper
6 Scott Fardy
5 James Horwill
4 Rob Simmons
3 Sekope Kepu
2 Stephen Moore
1 James Slipper
16 Saia Fainga'a
17 Ben Alexander
18 Paddy Ryan
19 Sitaleki Timani
20 Ben McCalman
21 Nic White
22 Nick Phipps
23 Bernard Foley
B. Recent Form - last seven
1. Scotland
Scotland - South Africa 0-28
Scotland - Italy 30-29
South Africa - Scotland 30-17
Samoa - Scotland 27-17
France - Scotland 23-16
Scotland - Wales 18-28
Scotland - Ireland 12-8
2. Australia
15-32 Ireland - Australia
20-13 England - Australia
41-33 New Zealand - Australia
17-54 Argentina - Australia
28-8 South Africa - Australia
14-13 Australia - Argentina
12-38 Australia - South Africa
C. Recent Form - head to head
5 June 2012, Hunter Stadium, Newcastle
Scotland Tour of Australasia
Australia 6 – 9 Scotland
21 November 2009, Murrayfield, Edinburgh
2009 Autumn International
Scotland 9 – 8 Australia
25 November 2006, Murrayfield, Edinburgh
2006 Autumn International
Scotland 15 – 44 Australia
20 November 2004, Hampden Park, Glasgow
2004 Autumn International
Scotland 17 – 31 Australia
6 November 2004, Murrayfield, Edinburgh
2004 Autumn International
Scotland 14 – 31 Australia
Last edited by George Carlin on Thu 21 Nov 2013, 2:58 pm; edited 6 times in total
George Carlin- Admin
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Location : KSA
Re: Scotland v Australia, 23 November
Ross Rennie was quality.
Problem is that all the other sides are on upwards curves as well, so is yours as steep as their's? The 6N's will tell us a little I guess. Next years tournament will be very interesting as all the teams will come in to it more settled and expecting to better last seasons results. There will be a lot of disappointed fans by the end of it.
Who are Scotland playing next summer?
Problem is that all the other sides are on upwards curves as well, so is yours as steep as their's? The 6N's will tell us a little I guess. Next years tournament will be very interesting as all the teams will come in to it more settled and expecting to better last seasons results. There will be a lot of disappointed fans by the end of it.
Who are Scotland playing next summer?
yappysnap- Posts : 11993
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Age : 36
Location : Christchurch, NZ
Re: Scotland v Australia, 23 November
I agree - it's practically impossible to tell the relative strengths of the national sides at the moment.yappysnap wrote:Ross Rennie was quality.
Problem is that all the other sides are on upwards curves as well, so is yours as steep as their's? The 6N's will tell us a little I guess. Next years tournament will be very interesting as all the teams will come in to it more settled and expecting to better last seasons results. There will be a lot of disappointed fans by the end of it.
Who are Scotland playing next summer?
Will adding Billy Vunipola to the England pack have a great impact than Jonny Gray to the Scottish pack? Could sticking Freddie Burns in at 10 for England have more of an impact than giving Madigan the 10 shirt for Ireland? Will Ashton's poor defence cost more tries than Visser's poor defence? Will Scott Williams create more than fellow footballer Billy Twelvetrees? Who knows? I think as a whole, England are on the strongest aggregate upswing, with Ireland being the people I'm worried about as nobody seems to be able to explain their dip in form and they are still relying a great deal on an aging guard.
Scotland will be the most improved but as you say, will that be enough to win matches?
Next summer we play USA on 7 June and will probably fit in some more tests around then.
George Carlin- Admin
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Location : KSA
Re: Scotland v Australia, 23 November
Canada, usa, argentina and south africa all in there home countries
poddy89- Posts : 126
Join date : 2011-12-27
Re: Scotland v Australia, 23 November
Well those three games haven't really helped me as to where we stand, at the moment both edinburgh and Glasgow seem low on confidence and not alot of attacking threat which we need them to get for coming in to the squad,
Our pack seems ok but we need to get our support and open play better as we get isolated alot and loose our ball, also lineout needs sorted but that should sort out,
10 is still going to be a big issue I just hope some one makes it there own for the world cup, could do with another strong 12 option, if Hogg and Maitland get there flare back and visser returns we could have a good backline!!
Any word on hornes return from injury? Could play a big part for us either 10 or centre
Our pack seems ok but we need to get our support and open play better as we get isolated alot and loose our ball, also lineout needs sorted but that should sort out,
10 is still going to be a big issue I just hope some one makes it there own for the world cup, could do with another strong 12 option, if Hogg and Maitland get there flare back and visser returns we could have a good backline!!
Any word on hornes return from injury? Could play a big part for us either 10 or centre
poddy89- Posts : 126
Join date : 2011-12-27
Re: Scotland v Australia, 23 November
Scott 12 is the best 12 of the "home" nations.
I've been saying that for over a year.
What has happened to our lineout though? 2 years ago it was the best in the 6n's now it's possibly the worst. Is it coaching? Bring back andy Robinson as forwards coach?
I've been saying that for over a year.
What has happened to our lineout though? 2 years ago it was the best in the 6n's now it's possibly the worst. Is it coaching? Bring back andy Robinson as forwards coach?
tigertattie- Posts : 9580
Join date : 2011-07-11
Location : On the naughty step
Re: Scotland v Australia, 23 November
Its the old issue of depth in the squad. Lose our top player in any position theior replacement is not of the same standard in many cases. We are better off in the forwrds but in the backs our first teamis good but take away Scott, Visser, Hogg and we look much poorer
TJ- Posts : 8629
Join date : 2013-09-22
Re: Scotland v Australia, 23 November
Well figured I might as well chuck my 10 boab on here / have a wee rant before we all move on.
Firstly what a cracking pre match it was, hats off to the special effects people they really do a fine job. Also Joe Ansbro presenting the match ball (ohhh how we wish he was still playing) and Jim Hamilton junior with his Dad on his 50th was class.
Absolutely cracking atmosphere which carried into the game, first 45-50 minutes.
As for the game itself, well minus the poor start for the first 50 minutes or so I really thought we were going to make in 3 in a row. Disappointed with the Falou try & felt that the decision to play 2 number 8's in the back row, Beattie break aside, didn't work. Ruck was pretty messy, although felt Hooper was incredibly lucky not to be sin binned when he came through at the ruck following one of our breaks and took out Laidlaw. Incredibly cynical and should have been 10.
(Speaking of Laidlaw in the rucks, we saw today in the Ireland - NZ game what a massive difference it makes when there's mass aggressive competition at rucks and somebody like Murray / Smith to get the ball away quickly & accurately. Would love to see us try and emulate the way Ireland played for the first 40. The sight of everyone in the Irish team from flanker to center causing utter havoc at the ruck was a joy to behold)
Sadly the game then slipped away from us, would have been out of sight if Lealiifano didn't treat us to his best Matt Giteau display, but what is most galling is that break before half time, we should have gone in 19-13 up, and had that been the case I reckon we'd have won.
Why ohhh, why didn't the players back themselves. Why didn't Maitland either delay his pass, therefore committing Falou then give it to Lamont. Or just back himself and race to the corner. Second part also applies to Lamont.
Once again let down by our inability to score tires is hugely frustrating.
On the try front things will improve once Scott, Hogg, Visser & hopefully Rennie return. But the lineout is a big concern.
Anyway rant over!
Firstly what a cracking pre match it was, hats off to the special effects people they really do a fine job. Also Joe Ansbro presenting the match ball (ohhh how we wish he was still playing) and Jim Hamilton junior with his Dad on his 50th was class.
Absolutely cracking atmosphere which carried into the game, first 45-50 minutes.
As for the game itself, well minus the poor start for the first 50 minutes or so I really thought we were going to make in 3 in a row. Disappointed with the Falou try & felt that the decision to play 2 number 8's in the back row, Beattie break aside, didn't work. Ruck was pretty messy, although felt Hooper was incredibly lucky not to be sin binned when he came through at the ruck following one of our breaks and took out Laidlaw. Incredibly cynical and should have been 10.
(Speaking of Laidlaw in the rucks, we saw today in the Ireland - NZ game what a massive difference it makes when there's mass aggressive competition at rucks and somebody like Murray / Smith to get the ball away quickly & accurately. Would love to see us try and emulate the way Ireland played for the first 40. The sight of everyone in the Irish team from flanker to center causing utter havoc at the ruck was a joy to behold)
Sadly the game then slipped away from us, would have been out of sight if Lealiifano didn't treat us to his best Matt Giteau display, but what is most galling is that break before half time, we should have gone in 19-13 up, and had that been the case I reckon we'd have won.
Why ohhh, why didn't the players back themselves. Why didn't Maitland either delay his pass, therefore committing Falou then give it to Lamont. Or just back himself and race to the corner. Second part also applies to Lamont.
Once again let down by our inability to score tires is hugely frustrating.
On the try front things will improve once Scott, Hogg, Visser & hopefully Rennie return. But the lineout is a big concern.
Anyway rant over!
Re: Scotland v Australia, 23 November
That wasnt much of a rant by your usual standards TJ!
RDW- Founder
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Re: Scotland v Australia, 23 November
Hard to disagree with any of it
AsLongAsBut100ofUs- Posts : 14129
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Re: Scotland v Australia, 23 November
Wisnae me rantingRDW_Scotland wrote:That wasnt much of a rant by your usual standards TJ!
TJ- Posts : 8629
Join date : 2013-09-22
Re: Scotland v Australia, 23 November
Have one now
tigertattie- Posts : 9580
Join date : 2011-07-11
Location : On the naughty step
Re: Scotland v Australia, 23 November
Massie in Hootsmon - all fair comment:
Better, but still not good enough, is a fair judgment, tempered by the recognition that Australia are weaker than South Africa.
Still, this was a match we might have won, even may have come close to winning, though again that view might be modified by the reflection that Australia missed five kicks at goal while we missed only two.
In one sense disappointment is unreasonable. Australia sit several places above Scotland in the IRB rankings. So any neutral would expect them to beat us. Nevertheless home advantage is supposed to even things up a bit – as Ireland so magnificently demonstrated on Sunday.
Moreover, disappointment is sharpened by the evidence of old, long-enduring weaknesses: slow ball at the breakdown, and the inability to score tries from promising positions.
The first might be remedied by the selection of a genuine No 7; the answer to the second problem is much harder to find. It’s not after all only this batch of players who are experiencing a try-famine in the Six Nations and against New Zealand, South Africa, Australia or Argentina. When we won the last Five Nations championship in 1999, we scored 16 tries in the four matches. I doubt if we’ve scored that many in four consecutive Six Nations seasons since.
You could run the rule over the performances of individuals on Saturday and find that nobody had a bad game and that all did particular things of pleasing quality. The set scrum was good, or at least as good as the terrible state of the pitch permitted. The line-out was unreliable – which is sad because it has so often been one of the things we have regularly got right. The fact that young Pat MacArthur, who otherwise had a good game, found the same difficulty in hitting the target as Ross Ford has sometimes done, suggests that this is not always the hooker’s fault– though he is always blamed – but that sometimes the jumper mistimes his leap or is inadequately supported. The back row men all did many fine things without convincing one that the blend was right.
Behind the scrum, Greig Laidlaw started uncertainly, then got better and better. It was a surprise to see him replaced by Chris Cusiter just when he seemed to be exerting an influence on the match. Cusiter played well, as he almost always does, but unless Laidlaw was carrying a knock, the substitution seemed ill-judged.
Duncan Weir handled well, apart from one knock-on of a good pass, but his kicking from hand, usually one of his strengths, was poor: either too long so that the chaser had no chance of putting the waiting recipient under pressure, or too short and high, so that the chasers were standing still waiting for the ball to descend.
Re-starting the second half, he kicked straight to Will Genia, and then did the same thing again three minutes later after Australia’s second try. On each occasion Genia fielded the ball comfortably and had ample time to kick into touch around the half-way line. Aren’t kickers taught to target weaker players at re-starts? Perhaps not: at Twickenham a week ago, the All Blacks kicked straight to the England No 8 Billy Vunipola four times in succession.
Some of Scott Johnson’s remarks after the game were worrying. He talked about preparing a squad for the World Cup in two years’ time. One would have preferred to hear how he was planning to win the Six Nations this season. There is no chance of doing this if he indulges in ceaseless experiment. Nobody – not even France – ever wins the Six Nations without having a settled team.
Clubs can successfully practise rotation because coaches have lots of time with their players. Coaches of any national team don’t enjoy that luxury. They have to back their judgment and stick to it – even when one of their chosen men has a bad game, as even the best players will sometimes have. Ronan O’Gara, for instance, had some pretty poor games for Ireland, but Ireland stuck with him – and benefited from trusting him.
Admittedly injuries intervene. No doubt we might have done better this autumn if Stuart Hogg, Matt Scott, Alex Dunbar, Tim Visser, Tim Swinson and Ross Rennie had all been available throughout – though one may remark that Johnson dropped Visser in South Africa on the summer tour. But the fact is that 32 players took the field for Scotland at some point in these three Autumn Tests. It’s surely time for Johnson to make up his mind as to what is his best starting XV and match-day squad – and stick to it, barring injuries. In particular he should decide between Jackson and Weir at 10, and tell the favoured one that he is not going to be dropped because he makes a few mistakes or has a less than convincing match. Continuity matters because players usually play better when they are accustomed to playing together.
George Carlin- Admin
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Re: Scotland v Australia, 23 November
His last paragraph is the most relevant part of the article.
I've read a few people (mostly non-Scots) coming back with the usual 'Scotland can't score tries' BS. All this November has proved is that:
A) We don't have any real strength in depth in the backs
B) Johnson has turned into another selection cretin by keeping certain players in the team when they obviously shouldn't be there
The 6N will be different because we'll have key players back - especially in the backs.
Lastly, I thought Seymour did quite well over the three games and didn't look out of place at all on the pitch.
I've read a few people (mostly non-Scots) coming back with the usual 'Scotland can't score tries' BS. All this November has proved is that:
A) We don't have any real strength in depth in the backs
B) Johnson has turned into another selection cretin by keeping certain players in the team when they obviously shouldn't be there
The 6N will be different because we'll have key players back - especially in the backs.
Lastly, I thought Seymour did quite well over the three games and didn't look out of place at all on the pitch.
Tattie Scones RRN- Posts : 1803
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Re: Scotland v Australia, 23 November
Aye Tattie, it will be a very different backline when those big 3 come back.
The replacement guys did well to keep the Wallabies out for most of the game.
Folau's try was kind of freaky, a marginal ball... but his pace is deceptive.
Feauai-Sautia's try was a second bite at it in broken play close to the line.
So all in all - not a bad effort from Scotland.
The replacement guys did well to keep the Wallabies out for most of the game.
Folau's try was kind of freaky, a marginal ball... but his pace is deceptive.
Feauai-Sautia's try was a second bite at it in broken play close to the line.
So all in all - not a bad effort from Scotland.
Pal Joey- PJ
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Re: Scotland v Australia, 23 November
Massie's summary is the best I've read from the press yet, and I agree that Weir should now be given a run in the 6 Nations (despite being pretty average in these AIs), with Jackson used from the bench. Jackson has had plenty game time under SJ, now I'd give Weir a tournament to show what he can do. They have different strengths and weaknesses, and I think both will have a role to play come the World Cup.
Agree with you Tattie on Seymour. Behind Visser and Maitland he'd be next in line for me.
Agree with you Tattie on Seymour. Behind Visser and Maitland he'd be next in line for me.
funnyExiledScot- Posts : 17072
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