New European Rugby cup (or whatever it is called) - Qualification agreed

First topic message reminder :

But didn't the WRU and its regions capitulate and join their English Masters? Have they done a U-turn now? Looks like it.

Unless they want to hype up the Low Value Cup...

"Landlord Vs Serf" 

Welshmushroom wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:

Sin é wrote:

HammerofThunor wrote:So made up then?

No. The Unions gave them everything they wanted with regard to qualification and division of monies. The only thing the Unions are not prepared to negotiate is governance.

when did they give them all this??

Couple of weeks back when it was all to late for reconciliation.  All a bit to late in the end.  I'm just wondering if the Franglo cup will be sanctioned at this stage.  Because I can't see the IRB supporting 2 European competitions.   Even the restriction of trade won't work as a legal angle for the PRL because the Unions are openly inviting them to theirs so loss of earnings can't be levelled at them.  I do suspect this is what the Unions are planning to do, knowing eventually the PRL will be forced back to the table in the long term.

Your dead right about that. I think the IRB are behind Camou's militant stance:

Sept 24

International Rugby Board chairman Bernard Lapasset has come out in support of European Rugby Cup Ltd saying any future European tournament must be Union-run.

Lapasset told AFP the game's governing body "will ensure we have a European competition which fulfils its name, which is not confiscated by some nations but has a real international interest.

"The IRB will defend this principle: not a privatisation of a competition in the interest of some people," he said, adding that "unions maintain pre-eminence over the leagues... the unions must remain masters of the game."

Read more at http://www.espnscrum.com/heineken-cup-2013-14/rugby/story/199509.html#hAHBzPiktjD8HyBG.99

I cant ses how the IRB could block a second cup tbh- and if they tried it would go straight to den haag's courts

Bad move p1ssing off Ian Ritchie. He was the only person quietly trying to get a competition back on next year, avoiding incendiary public statements.

Now he, and the RFU are angry. RFU is the 800lb gorilla in the room (revenues 50% greater than irfu, wru, sru, fir combined). Traditionally sleepy and slow-moving. But not something you would want to p1ss off. because they can make sure that the PRL is just fine and dandy financially and they wouldnt even notice the extra burden.

i am so pleased that prl and rfu will finally, properly be working together.

union gloves are off...no more Mr Nice Guy from RFU please...no more demurral, deferral, passive stance...it's on like donkey kong... 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PtvLTZS4Ik

retro!

mystiroakey wrote:I cant ses how the IRB could block a second cup tbh- and if they tried it would go straight to den haag's courts

They won't block it. The RCC can go ahead, but it won't be Rugby Union.

In the articles of association of the IRB (which clubs, through the RFU would be signed up to), it says that only the IRB can give permission for cross border competitions.

I mean block it from Rugby UNION obviously

quinsforever wrote:Bad move p1ssing off Ian Ritchie. He was the only person quietly trying to get a competition back on next year, avoiding incendiary public statements.

Now he, and the RFU are angry. RFU is the 800lb gorilla in the room (revenues 50% greater than irfu, wru, sru, fir combined). Traditionally sleepy and slow-moving. But not something you would want to p1ss off. because they can make sure that the PRL is just fine and dandy financially and they wouldnt even notice the extra burden.

i am so pleased that prl and rfu will finally, properly be working together.

This is the language I love.  No pretend niceness....just sheer unadulterated supremicist-speak.  It's far easier to argue with a big ego than a small one

Anyway, after the bull in a china shop routine (and all de'monie - which seems so popular on these boards) RFU will ------ FINALLY --------- speak out and declare it now supports the RCC fully.  It declares the RCC will now go ahead and that it hopes all 12 AP sides can now compete for the European crown amongst themselves?

Tough words indeed!

Or maybe they'll just ban the little'uns from their World Cup?

quinsforever wrote:Bad move p1ssing off Ian Ritchie. He was the only person quietly trying to get a competition back on next year, avoiding incendiary public statements.

Now he, and the RFU are angry. RFU is the 800lb gorilla in the room (revenues 50% greater than irfu, wru, sru, fir combined). Traditionally sleepy and slow-moving. But not something you would want to p1ss off. because they can make sure that the PRL is just fine and dandy financially and they wouldnt even notice the extra burden.

i am so pleased that prl and rfu will finally, properly be working together.

Well, I'm sure Mr Richie is aware that all those other minions can refuse to play England if they want to, so their greater funds won't last too long.

Remember what happened when the RFU went off and sold broadcasting rights to Sky of the Six Nations? It wasn't the little unions who came back with their tail between their legs  

mystiroakey wrote:I mean block it from Rugby UNION obviously

No one is blocking them playing team games against each other it just wont be Rugby Union as managed by the IRFU.
They can play away to their hearts content but it will not be Union grounds, in will be in Union competitions, it wont be referred by Union referees etc etc

geoff998rugby wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:I mean block it from Rugby UNION obviously

No one is blocking them playing team games against each other it just wont be Rugby Union as managed by the IRFU.
They can play away to their hearts content but it will not be Union grounds, in will be in Union competitions, it wont be referred by Union referees etc etc

as said before twice-If the IRB do not sanction a new event it will go to court and i cant see how the IRB could win the case

you see you can only block ideas if they seriously go against the grain of fairness and the sport it self.

There will be independent judges in the haag- and i haven't got the foggiest idea what is wrong with this new proposed comp therefore i cant see how the idea will lose out to the IRB if the IRB decides top block it

No it wont - there is no prevention of them playing.

All that is changing is they are no longer members of a proscribed organization.

geoff998rugby wrote:No it wont - there is no prevention of them playing.

All that is changing is they are no longer members of a proscribed organization.

As said if the IRB do not sanction the comp- both parties will end in court. The RCC wont happen as a break away event at the risk of every player being ineligible for Intentional rugby- i have no idea why people are bringing this up as if it realistic..

mystiroakey wrote:you see you can only block ideas if they seriously go against the grain of fairness and the sport it self.

There will be independent judges in the haag- and i haven't got the foggiest idea what is wrong with this new proposed comp therefore i cant see how the idea will lose out to the IRB if the IRB decides top block it

What on earth has Den Haag got to do with this all, strokey? If you meant the sports arbitration court, that's in switzerland. The PRL walked away, don't forget, as some on here are always so keen to remind us, so what exactly will they be taking to court anyway?

In the year before their precious RWC, this is utterly mortifying for the blazers at HQ - I can only imagine that the complete hissy fit they're collectively having!! Time to ditch McTwafferty and get on board the bus

mystiroakey wrote:

geoff998rugby wrote:No it wont - there is no prevention of them playing.

All that is changing is they are no longer members of a proscribed organization.

As said if the IRB do not sanction the comp- both parties will end in court. The RCC wont happen as a break away event at the risk of every player being ineligible for Intentional rugby- i have no idea why people are bringing this up as if it realistic..

The RFU and the IRB can't allow a breakaway unsanctioned event in the year before the RWC - therefore, the Chumps&Lapdogs Trophy is a dead duck (actually probably more like a Norwegian blue)

I am sure they could takle it to the court of justiuce in the haag dude- loads of sports related issues go there!

Sin é wrote:

quinsforever wrote:Bad move p1ssing off Ian Ritchie. He was the only person quietly trying to get a competition back on next year, avoiding incendiary public statements.

Now he, and the RFU are angry. RFU is the 800lb gorilla in the room (revenues 50% greater than irfu, wru, sru, fir combined). Traditionally sleepy and slow-moving. But not something you would want to p1ss off. because they can make sure that the PRL is just fine and dandy financially and they wouldnt even notice the extra burden.

i am so pleased that prl and rfu will finally, properly be working together.

Well, I'm sure Mr Richie is aware that all those other minions can refuse to play England if they want to, so their greater funds won't last too long.

Remember what happened when the RFU went off and sold broadcasting rights to Sky of the Six Nations? It wasn't the little unions who came back with their tail between their legs  

yeah that sounds like a credible threat. ireland, scotland and wales refusing to play england just because the RFU is bigger and financially stronger?

that's like showing up to a rugby match and saying i'm going to cut all my arms off so that you cant have a proper game of rugby against me.

mystiroakey wrote:I am sure they could takle it to the court of justiuce in the haag dude- loads of sports related issues go there!

On what grounds, strokey? "Your honour, we resigned from the competition and wanted to set up our own, but none of the other mean boys will come and play with us now - please can you give them all six of the best?" - good luck with that

quinsforever wrote:Bad move p1ssing off Ian Ritchie. He was the only person quietly trying to get a competition back on next year, avoiding incendiary public statements.

Now he, and the RFU are angry. RFU is the 800lb gorilla in the room (revenues 50% greater than irfu, wru, sru, fir combined). Traditionally sleepy and slow-moving. But not something you would want to p1ss off. because they can make sure that the PRL is just fine and dandy financially and they wouldnt even notice the extra burden.

i am so pleased that prl and rfu will finally, properly be working together.

Sure haven't they been working properly together all along? RFU the dummy with PRL pulling the strings.

FFR and LNR to meet today apparently. Hopefully we know more after that.

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:I am sure they could takle it to the court of justiuce in the haag dude- loads of sports related issues go there!

On what grounds, strokey?  "Your honour, we resigned from the competition and wanted to set up our own, but none of the other mean boys will come and play with us now - please can you give them all six of the best?" - good luck with that

i think you have confused the situation, the french teams and welsh do want to play= the problem is higher powers blocking them

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:

geoff998rugby wrote:No it wont - there is no prevention of them playing.

All that is changing is they are no longer members of a proscribed organization.

As said if the IRB do not sanction the comp- both parties will end in court. The RCC wont happen as a break away event at the risk of every player being ineligible for Intentional rugby- i have no idea why people are bringing this up as if it realistic..

The RFU and the IRB can't allow a breakaway unsanctioned event in the year before the RWC - therefore, the Chumps&Lapdogs Trophy is a dead duck (actually probably more like a Norwegian blue)

there will be no breakaway tournament. PRL have made that clear. everyone has. apart from certain (non-english) posters here who want it. presumably to see english players excluded from the national team or something like that? but that doesnt mean they cant fight the IRB if it gets messy, but there is no way a tournament would actually take place until that was resolved the good reasons you mention.

Munchkin wrote:

quinsforever wrote:Bad move p1ssing off Ian Ritchie. He was the only person quietly trying to get a competition back on next year, avoiding incendiary public statements.

Now he, and the RFU are angry. RFU is the 800lb gorilla in the room (revenues 50% greater than irfu, wru, sru, fir combined). Traditionally sleepy and slow-moving. But not something you would want to p1ss off. because they can make sure that the PRL is just fine and dandy financially and they wouldnt even notice the extra burden.

i am so pleased that prl and rfu will finally, properly be working together.

Sure haven't they been working properly together all along? RFU the dummy with PRL pulling the strings.

i got a text message from my buddy ian ritchie last night telling me that his plan was working and mccafferty following ian's every instruction...

quinsforever wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

quinsforever wrote:Bad move p1ssing off Ian Ritchie. He was the only person quietly trying to get a competition back on next year, avoiding incendiary public statements.

Now he, and the RFU are angry. RFU is the 800lb gorilla in the room (revenues 50% greater than irfu, wru, sru, fir combined). Traditionally sleepy and slow-moving. But not something you would want to p1ss off. because they can make sure that the PRL is just fine and dandy financially and they wouldnt even notice the extra burden.

i am so pleased that prl and rfu will finally, properly be working together.

Sure haven't they been working properly together all along? RFU the dummy with PRL pulling the strings.

i got a text message from my buddy ian ritchie last night telling me that his plan was working and mccafferty following ian's every instruction...

I always suspected you had sources on the inside, quins, and there you have it. Right from the top  

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:

geoff998rugby wrote:No it wont - there is no prevention of them playing.

All that is changing is they are no longer members of a proscribed organization.

As said if the IRB do not sanction the comp- both parties will end in court. The RCC wont happen as a break away event at the risk of every player being ineligible for Intentional rugby- i have no idea why people are bringing this up as if it realistic..

The RFU and the IRB can't allow a breakaway unsanctioned event in the year before the RWC - therefore, the Chumps&Lapdogs Trophy is a dead duck (actually probably more like a Norwegian blue)

nice python reference  

mystiroakey wrote:I am sure they could takle it to the court of justiuce in the haag dude- loads of sports related issues go there!

And Bosman apart usually the governing bodies win.

Also whats with the 'dude' comments all over the place - did you swallow a Coen brothers DVD ?

Yeah dude

mystiroakey wrote:I am sure they could takle it to the court of justiuce in the haag dude- loads of sports related issues go there!

I think the UN International Court of Justice in the Hague is more interested in giving advice on Nuclear Weapons than sorting out a few rugby games.

well does it really matter where they actually go- isnt the point whether they go to court or not

geoff998rugby wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:I am sure they could takle it to the court of justiuce in the haag dude- loads of sports related issues go there!

And Bosman apart usually the governing bodies win.

Also whats with the 'dude' comments all over the place - did you swallow a Coen brothers DVD ?

It makes a change from him calling things 'pants' and 'poopie'.

I now suspect mystiquins maybe rather younger than he claims.

I dont say things like pants or poopie dude

nah, just cooler

   

quinsforever wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

quinsforever wrote:Bad move p1ssing off Ian Ritchie. He was the only person quietly trying to get a competition back on next year, avoiding incendiary public statements.

Now he, and the RFU are angry. RFU is the 800lb gorilla in the room (revenues 50% greater than irfu, wru, sru, fir combined). Traditionally sleepy and slow-moving. But not something you would want to p1ss off. because they can make sure that the PRL is just fine and dandy financially and they wouldnt even notice the extra burden.

i am so pleased that prl and rfu will finally, properly be working together.

Sure haven't they been working properly together all along? RFU the dummy with PRL pulling the strings.

i got a text message from my buddy ian ritchie last night telling me that his plan was working and mccafferty following ian's every instruction...

Yeah, the patting the others on the back, and cheek kissing the natives didn't work.  The other guys always knew they had a leak in the All In This Together Firm and that the silent guy, drinking gin and tonics in the corner, was it.  Thus the unwelcome mat at the door for the last meeting.....

quinsforever wrote:   

You just laughed at your own joke! You forgot to switch back to the other username.

You two (one) are nuts!

Funny though.

mystiroakey wrote:well does it really matter where they actually go- isnt the point whether they go to court or not

It does matter actually as you need to know what grounds you are taking your case on.

I'm sure the corporate enforcement authorities would be interested in how board members of one organisation (ERC) were privy to the contents of their broadcasting agreement with Sky and used that information to sell their own broadcasting rights and other organisations (without their permission) to someone else.

Casartelli wrote:

quinsforever wrote:   

You just laughed at your own joke!  You forgot to switch back to the other username.

You two (one) are nuts!

Funny though.

   

 

Even the PRL have stated that if it goes to the courts the Cup will be dead in the water for 2014/2015 which is why they are pleading they are not blocked.

The reason for this is that they wouldn't be able to get a court appointed date let alone a verdict in time to start their tournament.

So basically if the IRB don't sanction the deal which you would imagine would be announced as late as possible will leave the LFR/PRL without a tournament in 2014/2015. I'm not saying they cant win their case but knowing European court times for such cases we would be looking at the approval not arriving until the 2015/2016. I'm sure the PRL would have been advised this by a solicitor on the matter at this stage.

Sin é wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:well does it really matter where they actually go- isnt the point whether they go to court or not

It does matter actually as you need to know what grounds you are taking your case on.

I'm sure the corporate enforcement authorities would be interested in how board members of one organisation (ERC) were privy to the contents of their broadcasting agreement with Sky and used that information to sell their own broadcasting rights and other organisations (without their permission) to someone else.

its not mny case is it.

but its pretty clear there seems nothing wrong with this proposed cross border comp and it shouldnt be blocked by the IRB

Feik, everyone is gonna think I am quinns(as they have met him already)

I would rather it have been the other way round..

Quins I hope you handled yourself alight the other night. I am clearly stuck with that image

SecretFly wrote:

quinsforever wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

quinsforever wrote:Bad move p1ssing off Ian Ritchie. He was the only person quietly trying to get a competition back on next year, avoiding incendiary public statements.

Now he, and the RFU are angry. RFU is the 800lb gorilla in the room (revenues 50% greater than irfu, wru, sru, fir combined). Traditionally sleepy and slow-moving. But not something you would want to p1ss off. because they can make sure that the PRL is just fine and dandy financially and they wouldnt even notice the extra burden.

i am so pleased that prl and rfu will finally, properly be working together.

Sure haven't they been working properly together all along? RFU the dummy with PRL pulling the strings.

i got a text message from my buddy ian ritchie last night telling me that his plan was working and mccafferty following ian's every instruction...

Yeah, the patting the others on the back, and cheek kissing the natives didn't work.  The other guys always knew they had a leak in the All In This Together Firm and that the silent guy, drinking gin and tonics in the corner, was it.  Thus the unwelcome mat at the door for the last meeting.....

twas ever part of the grand scheme. RFU will make up any revenue shortfall of the clubs from no HC. other items on the RFU nice to have list:

- lots of player release for squad training in 2014-15 season ahead of RWC2015
- sneaky plan to invite the welsh regions into an expanded AP, financial win-win, also breaks the celtic union hegemony
- a proper english (and welsh) knockout tournamet a la Pilkington, with new sponsors
- underwriting loans taken out by clubs purely for stadium expansions given capacity contstraints at most

lots of good stuff to be done if pulling in the same direction.

and no HC for the foreseeable.

Also I still find it laughable legal threats are even issued by the PRL and its members.  Didn't they just recently lose a case against the administration of London Welsh.  I wouldn't put to much faith in them delivering the right outcome if they have to go to court.

mystiroakey wrote:Feik, everyone is gonna think I am quinns(as they have met him already)

I would rather it have been the other way round..

Quins I hope you handled yourself alight the other night. I am clearly stuck with that image

don't think i embarrassed myself too badly mystir. so your reputation is safe for now

quinsforever wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:Feik, everyone is gonna think I am quinns(as they have met him already)

I would rather it have been the other way round..

Quins I hope you handled yourself alight the other night. I am clearly stuck with that image

don't think i embarrassed myself too badly mystir. so your reputation is safe for now

Good lad..

 

Welshmushroom wrote:Also I still find it laughable legal threats are even issued by the PRL and its members.  Didn't they just recently lose a case against the administration of London Welsh.  I wouldn't put to much faith in them delivering the right outcome if they have to court.

no-one WANTS to go to court. but equally, no-one is certain of the outcome as IRB reach has not been tested in the professional era - lets remember that cross border club competitions are a recent phenomenon.

anyway all the legal guff is a bit of a 606 sideshow (and other forums admittedly). PRL have always said if the french clubs cant play in the RCC it wont happen, and the prl clubs will sit europe out.

mystiroakey wrote:

Sin é wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:well does it really matter where they actually go- isnt the point whether they go to court or not

It does matter actually as you need to know what grounds you are taking your case on.

I'm sure the corporate enforcement authorities would be interested in how board members of one organisation (ERC) were privy to the contents of their broadcasting agreement with Sky and used that information to sell their own broadcasting rights and other organisations (without their permission) to someone else.

its not mny case is it.

but its pretty clear there seems nothing wrong with this proposed cross border comp and it shouldnt be blocked by the IRB

So the RCC Cup goes ahead with English clubs and French clubs?  And the HEC goes ahead with the others (perhaps including some French clubs as you can't stop them[legally!] doing what they want ;)and the IRB should also be as able to sanction a HEC as much as an RCC - yes?)

So that all happens.  Who is the Best in Europe?  Winner of the RCC or winner of the HEC?  
FIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well, perhaps not a fight but yet another juicy prospect of bring the lovely European double deal party back to one home and one competition to decide the Real European Best side?
The solution - and indeed the money - always comes back to a competition with ALL of us in it.  It's the only true money deal that makes sense.  And even if it appears it's separate tables for the forseeable future, the lure will be to join up again down the line... at some level, a level that generates even more of what everyone here seems obssessed with - Money.

well the IRB sanctioned the rabbo and the ERC didnt it!!

quinsforever wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

quinsforever wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

quinsforever wrote:Bad move p1ssing off Ian Ritchie. He was the only person quietly trying to get a competition back on next year, avoiding incendiary public statements.

Now he, and the RFU are angry. RFU is the 800lb gorilla in the room (revenues 50% greater than irfu, wru, sru, fir combined). Traditionally sleepy and slow-moving. But not something you would want to p1ss off. because they can make sure that the PRL is just fine and dandy financially and they wouldnt even notice the extra burden.

i am so pleased that prl and rfu will finally, properly be working together.

Sure haven't they been working properly together all along? RFU the dummy with PRL pulling the strings.

i got a text message from my buddy ian ritchie last night telling me that his plan was working and mccafferty following ian's every instruction...

Yeah, the patting the others on the back, and cheek kissing the natives didn't work.  The other guys always knew they had a leak in the All In This Together Firm and that the silent guy, drinking gin and tonics in the corner, was it.  Thus the unwelcome mat at the door for the last meeting.....

twas ever part of the grand scheme. RFU will make up any revenue shortfall of the clubs from no HC. other items on the RFU nice to have list:

- lots of player release for squad training in 2014-15 season ahead of RWC2015
- sneaky plan to invite the welsh regions into an expanded AP, financial win-win, also breaks the celtic union hegemony
- a proper english (and welsh) knockout tournamet a la Pilkington, with new sponsors
- underwriting loans taken out by clubs purely for stadium expansions given capacity contstraints at most

lots of good stuff to be done if pulling in the same direction.

and no HC for the foreseeable.

If all that allows English sides to win competitions then it's all good. If it's a intriguing and lengthy boardroom chat around the table, then I'm out - I prefer rugby to finance....