Wales team to face Australia

First topic message reminder :

I don't think anyone put their hands up today except Hook and O Williams
Several were dismal and if i see L Williams on the bench i will be very disappointed. Glad Charteris has gone back as he is off form.


Gethin
Hibbard - player of the autumn for me
Rhodri Jones
AWJ
Ryan Jones - I think Evans will be picked but I think Ryan offers more in the loose and was one of few players who looked like he wanted to play today
Lydiate - needs to up his game as he has been quiet this autumn
Warburton - personally would like to see Tips start and Warbs at 6 but expect tho selection
Faletau - has had a fine autumn
Philipps - superb last week, could be his opportunity to get a club!
Biggar - for his kicking game and is less prone to getting isolated and turned over, i may have picked hook if available as i thought he was good today
North - A quiet autumn and ordinary v Tonga. Time to step up
S Williams - excellent footballer, his big opportunity and I am looking forward to him staking a real claim
O Williams - only real bonus from the Tonga game, looked solid
L Williams - is he fit…who else is there.
Halfpenny - involved in both tries, expect the POTY finalist to have a huge game

Owens
Lee
A Prop
Coombes - in reality i think tho swill be Ryan as i expect Gats to select Evans
Tipuric pref for him to start
R Williams
Priestland - I would def pick Hook if available
Beck - barely but who else is there

As ever a measure of the state of welsh rugby, the flyhalf debate continues

flyhalf I tend to agree with most of your post but can you replace cousins with acquaintances please  

maestegmafia wrote:As ever a measure of the state of welsh rugby, the flyhalf debate continues

It is the 'Welsh Way', even though Gatlandball tactics mean that the outside half role is now less crucial to overall team performance.

For all the reasons discussed above, Biggar was always the favourite to start - and should remain so for the foreseeable.

RubyGuby wrote:flyhalf I tend to agree with most of your post but can you replace cousins with acquaintances please  

Hey now look here "they" are our acquaintances, they are your "very close friends".....   

Ian Evans is going to toulon . sorry can't do links   

jimmyinthewell68 wrote:Ian Evans is going to toulon . sorry can't do links       

Jimmy - I'd calm down mate, that only means that Coombs will soon be on his way to the Ospreys  

do you think coombs will go there ruby . Ian dont forget to put in the play for Wales outside window clause in your contract

munkian wrote: I'd have Amos over Sanjay but then I may be slighlty biased...

Just a touch munkiam, even as a Dragons fan myself whilst pleased for the lad I would have picked Dan Evans above Amos so I think Williams is better choice (for now)  

bedfordwelsh wrote:

munkian wrote: I'd have Amos over Sanjay but then I may be slighlty biased...

Just a touch munkiam, even as a Dragons fan myself whilst pleased for the lad I would have picked Dan Evans above Amos so I think Williams is better choice (for now)  

Evans was one of a number of clever signings for the Dragons... Been a very handy player.

On current Wales form I wouldn't say Sanjay is better. I expected a lot more tbh, he hasn't really kicked on though.

Anyone else going to the game?

I will be there maes

Me too mate ..!

Where you sitting? I think we are third tier in the corner

2nd tier left of posts I think maes

Rhodri Jones must be Gatland's 'mistake', the unintended product of that fateful night when Gats had one too many and fell into a passionate if brief fling with some bird named Jones. How else could Rhodri's continued inclusion be explained when he is unable to displace Manu or Adriaanse, let alone the man warming the bench this Saturday, at PYS??

I have seen nothing and I emphasise, nothing in Jones' performances to justify the amount of time he's spent in the Welsh jersey. No stand-out scrummaging ability, no breaking the gainline, no noticeable presence at the breakdown, nothing. Selections such as this only undermine any concept of meritocratic order in the squad and set us back a long way against opposition with a more straightforward squad hierarchy.

Knowsit17 wrote:Rhodri Jones must be Gatland's 'mistake', the unintended product of that fateful night when Gats had one too many and fell into a passionate if brief fling with some bird named Jones. How else could Rhodri's continued inclusion be explained when he is unable to displace Manu or Adriaanse, let alone the man warming the bench this Saturday, at PYS??

I have seen nothing and I emphasise, nothing in Jones' performances to justify the amount of time he's spent in the Welsh jersey. No stand-out scrummaging ability, no breaking the gainline, no noticeable presence at the breakdown, nothing. Selections such as this only undermine any concept of meritocratic order in the squad and set us back a long way against opposition with a more straightforward squad hierarchy.

No No, i've admitted that I would rather start Aaron Jarvis instead of Saturday but you are being a bit too harsh on the kid.
He was thrown into the welsh team against the Argies without any game time at a high level. He stood up against probably the best loose head in world rugby and manages to give us a firm platform. I don't have an issue with Rhodri starting this weekend, if he pays like he did against Argentina and Tonga then fine he can give us something to work off. I would have chose Aaron only because he is an attacking scrummager.

He has played pretty well in my opinion, don't you think your being i bit too harsh on the kid. What tight head consitantly breaks a gain line anyway because i want him.

It was more a criticism of Gatland's selection rationale than of Jones himself. Perhaps I should word it differently. I do not see what Jones offers that other tightheads available for selection don't offer in greater quality. He's not being picked because he deserves it, he's being picked because of some yet unnamed, unknown quality that the coaching staff apparently see in him. Since when would you consider that a relevant criteria on which to base selections? Like I said it completely undermines the concept of being picked on merit. Others need to work hard for it but not Jones, he'll sit comfortably on the bench (if he's even in the matchday squad!) at PYS and wait for Uncle Warren to come calling while Samson Lee has to work his ass off just to earn an occasional bench spot for the national team. How exactly do you justify that type of policy?

It's a one of the nonsensical pathologies, yet another example of Gatland's inexplicable favouritism for some players over others, no matter what they do. And it will eventually be exploited, if not by Australia then by someone else.

Rhodri Jones was a very good loosehead, and swapped to tighthead by Gats request. He missed last season, more or less, through injury. He started this season as third choice at the Scarlets and Danny Wilson says he has technique problems when he tires, which meant the Scarlets prefered the technically sound Samson Lee and Jacobie Adriaanse. Seeing as he has held his own internationally I am confident he will get more time at pys now.

As for the Romanian on the bench this week, he was brought in because Manu is injured, and team Wales have both Rhodri and Samson, leaving us with only one recognised tighthead.

Personally I would have Samson start and Rhodri on the bench.

I agree with all the criticism of some of Gats selections. I can't criticise Rhodri Jones though, he's been playing pretty good. I think the pecking order at the Scarlets is more to do with the Region already having a couple good THs, players they spent a lot of resources on when Jones was injured. It could be worse, Scott Andrews could be starting...

Knowsitt, i know what you mean about selecting players who haven't really earnt it yet. Scott Williams original call up, years ago, seemed harsh on Maule, and then Adam Warren leapfrogged him too. Similar with Amos being called up ahead of Dan Evans, or Rhodri Williams ahead of Richie Rees or Gareth Davies. The management team seem to go for either tried and trusted or a kid with potential but bypass the grafter who deserve their chance.

The Argentine and Tongan packs weren't noticeably on the back foot though. Jones coped in the scrum and that's about it. And in the loose against Tonga he was dire, making silly ineffective runs, stupidly getting himself isolated (though he wasn't the only culprit in that regard) and conceding turnovers. Is that really the benchmark we want to see set? No wonder competitive depth is such an issue in Wales if that's the case. Samson Lee, despite his youth, is a proven operator at 3 throughout the age grades and has helped dismantle and dominate many an opposition scrum at those levels. And so far he looks to be carrying that up nicely to his region.

This is my main point. I don't recall ever seeing Rhodri Jones do anything eye-catching as a tighthead or a loosehead, for club or country. He looks distinctly ordinary, stable at best and nothing more. So why is he third choice for his country?

I worry a lot with such complacent selections.

What has Jarvis proved at this level though? They are all pretty much untested after A Jones so it could have been seen as a gamble whoever they played.

Jones came in and has handled himself very well and I think it would of been harsh on him to have been dropped and also as hard on Jarvis or Lee to be just thrown in at this late stage, as most of training sessions will have been done with Jones at t/head.

Knowsit17 wrote:It was more a criticism of Gatland's selection rationale than of Jones himself. Perhaps I should word it differently. I do not see what Jones offers that other tightheads available for selection don't offer in greater quality. He's not being picked because he deserves it, he's being picked because of some yet unnamed, unknown quality that the coaching staff apparently see in him. Since when would you consider that a relevant criteria on which to base selections? Like I said it completely undermines the concept of being picked on merit. Others need to work hard for it but not Jones, he'll sit comfortably on the bench (if he's even in the matchday squad!) at PYS and wait for Uncle Warren to come calling while Samson Lee has to work his ass off just to earn an occasional bench spot for the national team. How exactly do you justify that type of policy?

It's a one of the nonsensical pathologies, yet another example of Gatland's inexplicable favouritism for some players over others, no matter what they do. And it will eventually be exploited, if not by Australia then by someone else.

Fair do's can't argue with you there. You couldn't be more right there, its the only thing I dislike about Gatland selection; he is just to stubborn though to pick someone else, then again all coaches are a bit stubborn like that.

Bedford
I do see what you are saying but the only reason I chose Jarvis was because i thought he had more of a chance of starting than Samson and was a better attacking option at scrum times. If that makes sense.
As Knowsit17 says, Samson is clearly not in favour of Gatland yet no matter how well he has played in the Rabo and Heineken Cup, he is still picked behind a prop who is at best 3rd choice at the same region where Samson is first choice.

I think Samsons discipline goes against him in Gatlands eyes, he picked up a ban not long before the squad was announced and has been binned during this AI series.

Does anyone hav san y insight on the Australian selection? Has it been announced yet?

Scratch wrote:Does anyone hav san y insight on the Australian selection? Has it been announced yet?

It will be announced later this morning. It's just after 9am here.

I'll post it up here as soon as they announce it.

I was going to say it but you beat me, Lee's indiscipline has been his main shortcoming so far and while he's with the Welsh squad I hope the coaches take him to one side and tell him that he needs to use his head more in future. That being said I thought the citing in the Quins game was unduly harsh.

Linebreaker wrote:

Scratch wrote:Does anyone hav san y insight on the Australian selection? Has it been announced yet?

It will be announced later this morning. It's just after 9am here.

I'll post it up here as soon as they announce it.

Thanks…expect any shocks/surprises? Who is definitely out of contention

Lee's ban and especially his yellow against Arg were extremely harsh IMO.

The Saint wrote:Lee's ban and especially his yellow against Arg were extremely harsh IMO.

agree he tackled a player nine yards instead of ten wasn't it.

jimmyinthewell68 wrote:

The Saint wrote:Lee's ban and especially his yellow against Arg were extremely harsh IMO.

        agree he tackled a player nine yards instead of ten wasn't it.  

It was also last minute of the game and meant for nothing... I don't think his discipline is the reason that the coaches are holding Lee back. I think they know well how important it is to introduce young lads of potential in a way that suit that player.

Chucking Lee in at the deep end may ruin him... Giving him game time gradually is the better option letting him find his feet.

bedfordwelsh wrote:I think Samsons discipline goes against him in Gatlands eyes, he picked up a ban not long before the squad was announced and has been binned during this AI series.

Samson was overlooked in favour of Rhodri for the tour to Japan too, and that was before he had picked up a single card so his discipline is not the problem.  I really don't know why he is overlooked, but I am starting to wonder if his 'family background' is an issue with Gats.

That's quite an allegation to make.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:I think Samsons discipline goes against him in Gatlands eyes, he picked up a ban not long before the squad was announced and has been binned during this AI series.

Samson was overlooked in favour of Rhodri for the tour to Japan too, and that was before he had picked up a single card so his discipline is not the problem.  I really don't know why he is overlooked, but I am starting to wonder if his ethnicity is an issue with Gats.

If they picked him as back up for Adam and he had a bad game you would all be laying into them saying that he was played too much too early and will ruin his confidence. Many of you were saying similar about playing him as first choice for the Region last year.

He is a monster of a lad, but he is very young, he is not very fit, his body is probably still developing, his skills are too. He may look fantastic at the Scarlets but you haven't really got or had anything to compare him too.

Maybe just maybe the coaches have his best interest at heart and are doing the right thing....????

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:I think Samsons discipline goes against him in Gatlands eyes, he picked up a ban not long before the squad was announced and has been binned during this AI series.

Samson was overlooked in favour of Rhodri for the tour to Japan too, and that was before he had picked up a single card so his discipline is not the problem.  I really don't know why he is overlooked, but I am starting to wonder if his ethnicity is an issue with Gats.

What? Not English enough?

Suggesting it comes down to ethnicity is a bit of a leap unless you have something else to suggest it.

Why the hell would it matter to Gatland ? He's capped all sorts for Wales and the Lions

munkian wrote:Why the hell would it matter to Gatland ? He's capped all sorts for Wales and the Lions

perhaps he nicked his metal ladder when gats was cleaning his windows

Australia:

Israel Folau (NSW Waratahs), Joe Tomane (ACT Brumbies), Adam Ashley-Cooper (NSW Waratahs), Christian Leali'ifano (ACT Brumbies), Nick Cummins (Western Force), Quade Cooper (Reds), Will Genia (Reds), James Slipper (Reds), Stephen Moore (ACT Brumbies), Sekope Kepu (NSW Waratahs), Rob Simmons (Reds), James Horwill (Reds), Scott Fardy (ACT Brumbies), Michael Hooper (NSW Waratahs), Ben Mowen (ACT Brumbies, captain)

Replacements: Tatafu Polota-Nau (NSW Waratahs), Benn Robinson (NSW Waratahs), Ben Alexander (ACT Brumbies), Kane Douglas (NSW Waratahs), Dave Dennis (NSW Waratahs), Nic White (ACT Brumbies), Mike Harris - Queensland Reds), Bernard Foley (NSW Waratahs)

Good team...

So its quite a similar to the team the Lions demolished in the third test coming back for a revenge match...!

There must be 8 or nine wallabies from the final test in that team...

THis is going to be huge. Can't wait.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:That's quite an allegation to make.

Yeah, sorry bad choice of wording, sorry I should know better.

Oh God the nerves are kicking in

maestegmafia wrote:So its quite a similar to the team the Lions demolished in the third test coming back for a revenge match...!

No chance of revenge - they're not playing the Lions on Saturday.

Im going to have to get drunk watching this          folau

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:So its quite a similar to the team the Lions demolished in the third test coming back for a revenge match...!

No chance of revenge - they're not playing the Lions on Saturday.

Yes that might be what we are being told but I am not sure that is how they see will it...!!!

It's a good team,

I've never been convinced of Leali'ifano as anything other than a goal kicker, but AAC is a better 13 than he is a winger if you ask me - hopefully the passing will slow down between 10 and 13 because I don't want AAC picking lines between Owen Williams and Cuthbert, as Cuthbert is prone to step in and Halfpenny isn't on the best of form at the back to try to stop Tomane and Folau together!

Forwards look strong, and a good bench to come on too.

Wales need to play like they did against England...

Australia far more dynamic behind the scrum and will score trys. Aus. are now starting to move forward after a period of change (it never lasts long for them) - They have a pack equal to us and arguably more scavengers at the breakdown. Our line out is also starting to look vulnerable again. Should we have gone for Tuperic from the off at the expense of Dan?. That would be a brave move and Gats has played safe. Let's hope it's safe enough but this is a big challenge. Aus by 10.  

So you think Wales will do worse than Scotland ?

munkian wrote:So you think Wales will do worse than Scotland ?

Never! Aus always put out a mish mash of players against Scotland just to make a game of it. They've come a cropper doing that but that's what it amounts to. JD, Jamie and Adam are genuine world class players; that will make the difference for me against this dynamic and powerful Aus team.

Thats a very good backline, one which I am sure will punish us if we kick aimlessly to them.

Lets hope our pack can get the edge up front and they are on the back foot for lot of game, if we are not more than 1 score ahead going into last few mins god help our nerves

bedfordwelsh wrote:If we are not more than 1 score ahead going into last few mins god help our nerves

I can't handle it again!

Why can all games be like Wales v England?