Wales team to face Australia

First topic message reminder :

I don't think anyone put their hands up today except Hook and O Williams
Several were dismal and if i see L Williams on the bench i will be very disappointed. Glad Charteris has gone back as he is off form.


Gethin
Hibbard - player of the autumn for me
Rhodri Jones
AWJ
Ryan Jones - I think Evans will be picked but I think Ryan offers more in the loose and was one of few players who looked like he wanted to play today
Lydiate - needs to up his game as he has been quiet this autumn
Warburton - personally would like to see Tips start and Warbs at 6 but expect tho selection
Faletau - has had a fine autumn
Philipps - superb last week, could be his opportunity to get a club!
Biggar - for his kicking game and is less prone to getting isolated and turned over, i may have picked hook if available as i thought he was good today
North - A quiet autumn and ordinary v Tonga. Time to step up
S Williams - excellent footballer, his big opportunity and I am looking forward to him staking a real claim
O Williams - only real bonus from the Tonga game, looked solid
L Williams - is he fit…who else is there.
Halfpenny - involved in both tries, expect the POTY finalist to have a huge game

Owens
Lee
A Prop
Coombes - in reality i think tho swill be Ryan as i expect Gats to select Evans
Tipuric pref for him to start
R Williams
Priestland - I would def pick Hook if available
Beck - barely but who else is there

SS, I think that was true a few years back but Biggar has become a very rounded flyhalf and imo the best of what we have (consistently). He picks his passes well, his kicking game is still very strong, his defence is top notch for a 10 and he recognises space very early these days! He plays with his head up which wasnt always the case....

Priestland has games where he is pretty much unplayable but he's also prone to having games where he gets his head down and nothing comes off for him. Biggar maybe doesnt reach the heights he can, but doesnt come anywhere near the lows either.

Biggar has the starting 10 slot for me with Priestland on the bench purely down to turning around the welsh ship during the 6ns last season and for what hes contributed across the board so far this season. I wouldn't argue with either starting mind as their both coming along.

Happy with the team selection with Biggar starting is great news and no Llyod Williams who was terrible against Tonga. I am a big fan of R Jones but he covers both second and back row from the bench, I believe Wales have their strongest team available over the 80+mins. Wales best chance to win this game by 5 or more points.

flyhalffactory wrote:

Casartelli wrote:

flyhalffactory wrote:

Casartelli wrote:FHF - stop tormenting yourself man!  Hook isn't available for selection so it's not relevant.

He had a solid, if unspectacular game, for a player that hadn't started a test in over 2 years.  Nobody's claiming anything more.  His average rating in the press was around 7, with a few comments that his long passing off both hands was excellent.

Cas
Don't be silly,

Firstly the OP is stating (that apart from Owen Williams) Hook was the only welsh player who put his hand up  . Secondly solid and unspectacular against one of the weaker teams is not what Wales are looking for. Lastly he is playing high quality rugby in a quality league and a few times at 10, with his natural instinctive ball skills, and 73 cap experience.... then surely the excuse of not stating a test match should bare little or no relevance.

Maybe the OP meant that he 'put his hand up' in that Hook played a conservative gameplan equally as well as Biggar and Priestland (well, much better than Priestland in that Hook can actually punt a ball) and that is all Gatland ever wants at 10.

It's all academic now - Gatland seems set on rotating Biggar and Priestland, with Hook providing bench cover, unless injuries change things.

If you mean close to every one of his "punts" finding a Tongan in space and finding the advantage given away, then you are right, I think Biggar has a longer distance and Priestland not far behind but at least finds the competitive line and space.....

Shame he often can't find touch.

Anyways, I don't think there is much of a difference between Biggar and Priestland other than in the kicking. Even when on form Priestland is erratic with the boot. Biggar is also more consistent in general play, so he deserves the nod to start.

The team looks strong. Cuthbert's return is a big plus. Could be exciting.

If we keep thumping the ball down the field we'll get thumped, they'll just run it back to us  

Comfort wrote:SS, I think that was true a few years back but Biggar has become a very rounded flyhalf and imo the best of what we have (consistently). He picks his passes well, his kicking game is still very strong, his defence is top notch for a 10 and he recognises space very early these days! He plays with his head up which wasnt always the case....

Priestland has games where he is pretty much unplayable but he's also prone to having games where he gets his head down and nothing comes off for him. Biggar maybe doesnt reach the heights he can, but doesnt come anywhere near the lows either.

Biggar has the starting 10 slot for me with Priestland on the bench purely down to turning around the welsh ship during the 6ns last season and for what hes contributed across the board so far this season. I wouldn't argue with either starting mind as their both coming along.

That's as spot on as you can get

Biggar is more adventurous and innovative than people give him credit, and I think your man Priestland looks in a much better place since his return. I think bringing on Priestland and Rhodri Williams when the opposition are tiring and game is more fragmented is a good call, reminds me of your Stephen Jones controlling the initial game and Hook coming on when space and opportunities are the order of the day.

Comfort, when I said Biggar is a plodding fly half, I meant more of a Steve Jones type of fly half than a Carlos Spencer type. He will do everything that you ask of him, and will be pretty dependable. However, I would not pin my hopes on him producing anything magic to win the game. But he will stick to the game plan, and perform his purpose in the game plan (well in Gats style game plan) well. Priestland on the other hand is a bit more likely to pull something out of the bag from nowhere. The two of them have different skill sets, and coupled with the scrum halves they have with them (Phillips & Biggar / Rhodri & Priest) we have the potential to go from a safe and controlling style to a all guns blazing poop or bust style. Against Aus the safety first option is the better to start with and then if we need to turn it around we can go hell for leather afterwards.

SS, I'd say they're more similar than you give them credit for but certainly agree with each having their strength (Biggar more so tactical, moving the team around the field and Priestland getting the backline boyos moving).

I think Biggar is pretty capable of the magic moments though too, look at the litle grubber to the corner for North against France last year, tight game, 8 losses on the bounce, time drawing near, it took guts to put in that kick, let alone to the degree of accuracy he did (admitedly North's finish was awesome), it takes guts and quality to make that play.

Anyone else think having Scott Williams at 12 (and no Roberts) has forced us to alter our attack a bit? He's really impressed me and I haven't seen any of his usual tunnel vision (which is my usual problem with him).

I like Scott Williams, but I think it's less about him being at 12 and more about Roberts not being at 12, if that makes sense. And I don't mean that as a criticism of Roberts, more a criticism of the limited way we use him. In his absence, we've had to play a bit more, but we could play more even when he is in the side, it's just that we seem obsessed with sending him into contact. There's more to his game than that.

I don't mean that as a criticism of Scott Williams either!

Comfort wrote:SS, I'd say they're more similar than you give them credit for but certainly agree with each having their strength (Biggar more so tactical, moving the team around the field and Priestland getting the backline boyos moving).

I think Biggar is pretty capable of the magic moments though too, look at the litle grubber to the corner for North against France last year, tight game, 8 losses on the bounce, time drawing near, it took guts to put in that kick, let alone to the degree of accuracy he did (admitedly North's finish was awesome), it takes guts and quality to make that play.

Anyone else think having Scott Williams at 12 (and no Roberts) has forced us to alter our attack a bit? He's really impressed me and I haven't seen any of his usual tunnel vision (which is my usual problem with him).

+1, totally agree.

I am not sure but it does look as if Wales are starting to show a little more ambition during the AI's in attack or is it as you say Roberts is not playing, anyway it is good to see as we are less predictable.

glamorganalun wrote:

Comfort wrote:SS, I'd say they're more similar than you give them credit for but certainly agree with each having their strength (Biggar more so tactical, moving the team around the field and Priestland getting the backline boyos moving).

I think Biggar is pretty capable of the magic moments though too, look at the litle grubber to the corner for North against France last year, tight game, 8 losses on the bounce, time drawing near, it took guts to put in that kick, let alone to the degree of accuracy he did (admitedly North's finish was awesome), it takes guts and quality to make that play.

Anyone else think having Scott Williams at 12 (and no Roberts) has forced us to alter our attack a bit? He's really impressed me and I haven't seen any of his usual tunnel vision (which is my usual problem with him).

+1, totally agree.

I am not sure but it does look as if Wales are starting to show a little more ambition during the AI's in attack or is it as you say Roberts is not playing, anyway it is good to see as we are less predictable.

The injury disruption to the teams we have selected for the AIs has given opportunity where before there seemed non. Scott Williams was having a great season for the Scarlets pre AIs now is looking like maybe he should be pushing Roberts for his selection come the Six Nations.

Competition for places is always a very good thing.

LP, yeah I'd agree with that completely, its what I was getting at. There's more width on the ball and less bashbashbash in midfield. Decoy runners, Halfpenny attacking the line, wingers holding their width and coming from the blind when its going the other way. Low and behold we're keeping opponents guessing and our forwards are getting a bit more space to run at, they're running at shoulders and geting over the gainline...

I've been impressed with Scott Williams in general as well.

Comfort wrote:LP, yeah I'd agree with that completely, its what I was getting at. There's more width on the ball and less bashbashbash in midfield. Decoy runners, Halfpenny attacking the line, wingers holding their width and coming from the blind when its going the other way. Low and behold we're keeping opponents guessing and our forwards are getting a bit more space to run at, they're running at shoulders and geting over the gainline...

I've been impressed with Scott Williams in general as well.

Aye definitely impressed with Scott Williams, he has more vision and ball skills than Roberts. I would have been surprised to see Roberts make a break from inside the 22 as Williams did vs the Argies two weeks ago.

Guys, not wanting to sound like a depressive of anything, but so far these AIs

SA -: we didn't deserve to be on the same pitch as them. Granted we had to reshuffle the backline early in the game, but we looked aimless with ball in hand.

Argentina -: we dominated them. But look back, the first try was a flukey interception. The second was a well worked George North running off the lineout, a pretty standard Gatlandball trick. And then when our heads were up and their tails were down we punished them. Again this is pretty much how we have played for a long time. Grind a gap between us and them and then let the backs run wild.

Tonga -: lets face it that was woeful. Owen Williams ran his try in beautifully (even though the pass to him was forward), and Ashley Beck finished his try well. But other than that it was dire, and the try they ran in was just poor defence.

So all in all so far we have had one good game, but traditional tactics, one woeful game due to injuries, and one god awful game that we are blaming on resting players. That doesn't really fill me with confidence that we are playing a more attacking game. It seems pretty much the usual to me.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Comfort, when I said Biggar is a plodding fly half, I meant more of a Steve Jones type of fly half than a Carlos Spencer type.  He will do everything that you ask of him, and will be pretty dependable.  However, I would not pin my hopes on him producing anything magic to win the game.  But he will stick to the game plan, and perform his purpose in the game plan (well in Gats style game plan) well.  Priestland on the other hand is a bit more likely to pull something out of the bag from nowhere.  The two of them have different skill sets, and coupled with the scrum halves they have with them (Phillips & Biggar / Rhodri & Priest) we have the potential to go from a safe and controlling style to a all guns blazing poop or bust style.  Against Aus the safety first option is the better to start with and then if we need to turn it around we can go hell for leather afterwards.

What happened in France earlier this year then?

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Guys, not wanting to sound like a depressive of anything, but so far these AIs

SA -: we didn't deserve to be on the same pitch as them.  Granted we had to reshuffle the backline early in the game, but we looked aimless with ball in hand.

Argentina -:  we dominated them.  But look back, the first try was a flukey interception.  The second was a well worked George North running off the lineout, a pretty standard Gatlandball trick.  And then when our heads were up and their tails were down we punished them.  Again this is pretty much how we have played for a long time.  Grind a gap between us and them and then let the backs run wild.

Tonga -: lets face it that was woeful.  Owen Williams ran his try in beautifully (even though the pass to him was forward), and Ashley Beck finished his try well. But other than that it was dire, and the try they ran in was just poor defence.

So all in all so far we have had one good game, but traditional tactics, one woeful game due to injuries, and one god awful game that we are blaming on resting players.  That doesn't really fill me with confidence that we are playing a more attacking game.  It seems pretty much the usual to me.

Pretty much sums everything up.

Casartelli wrote:

flyhalffactory wrote:

Casartelli wrote:FHF - stop tormenting yourself man!  Hook isn't available for selection so it's not relevant.

He had a solid, if unspectacular game, for a player that hadn't started a test in over 2 years.  Nobody's claiming anything more.  His average rating in the press was around 7, with a few comments that his long passing off both hands was excellent.

Cas
Don't be silly,

Firstly the OP is stating (that apart from Owen Williams) Hook was the only welsh player who put his hand up  . Secondly solid and unspectacular against one of the weaker teams is not what Wales are looking for. Lastly he is playing high quality rugby in a quality league and a few times at 10, with his natural instinctive ball skills, and 73 cap experience.... then surely the excuse of not stating a test match should bare little or no relevance.

Maybe the OP meant that he 'put his hand up' in that Hook played a conservative gameplan equally as well as Biggar and Priestland (well, much better than Priestland in that Hook can actually punt a ball) and that is all Gatland ever wants at 10.

It's all academic now - Gatland seems set on rotating Biggar and Priestland, with Hook providing bench cover, unless injuries change things.

Look, Wales have had 3 options of which Preistland has largely been seen as No 1 since 2011, Biggar 2 and Hook utility and 3rd spot, as has been proven by Gatland's selection of Biggar, kicking is the key to Wales game plan and the 10 spot has been a lottery for Wales for some time. No one really expected this selection as Priestland was seen as no 1, though i think we all knew it was likely.

Priestland has never replicated his RWC 2011 form and for some reason Biggar has been out of favor. Biggar's kicking game is stronger than Priestlands and Hooks. Preistland is weak in contact and gets very isolated. So going into this week and knowing hook was out it was a 2 horse race. Arguably Gatland picked Hook last week to preserve his 10s.

Aside from the fact that Hook is unavailable this week and would not have been selected anyway he did put his hand up let week as still being in contention as a 10 for Wales which i don't think he has been considered as for some time. He is generally regarded as too high risk/reward and his kicking game is not a strength. But comparatively for him at 10 for Wales, he had a good game.

Anyone who has followed him for the last 5 or so years knows he has always been a gamble because just as he can win games with excellent passing and finding gaps out wide, he can also be horribly lateral, stuff easy kicks and throw howler intercepts. He was given numerous opportunities to cement 10 after Jones retired and when he failed to do so his 7 s pedigree ensured he became the invaluable utility player he has become and will remain.
Last week he executed the game plan very well and put his hand up in a 3 horse contest and suggested he was playing a more conservative role and not taking huge risks against a poor tongan effort. he kicked accurately if a little cheaply to defenders but he made few mistakes and carried and distributed well.

I still think he will figure come 6 Nations time.

As for Charteris, again this guy can be excellent or awful and i felt giving away penalties, dropping a certain try and impeding another is a clearly a bad game. IMO Jiffy's MOTM was a poor quality urine take. In terms of other players, Ryan was excellent but will always be utility back row lock now much as i want him at lock as i don't rate Ianto at the moment. Picking him over Toby would be a mistake at 8 as he does not have the oace or carrying power Faletau has anymore.

Aside form that Owen had a great game and I felt no one else really made a case for inclusion against the Aussies. Lloyd Williams played himself out of the 9 shirt, Beck was poor, Amos was solid but is under done.

"He (Hook) was given numerous opportunities to cement 10 after Jones retired....."

The Tonga game was the first test he's started since Stephen Jones retired.

This is the bit that baffles me about Hook. He seems to generate so much hatred/misinformation/lying for a bloke that's pretty much always done what Wales have asked of him.

He's like the rugby version of Princess Diana.

You don't think he and al fayed...Erm...

On Hook:

He's a talented ball player, has a long punt but no a great deal of accuracy (consistently) and he isnt a great decision maker at 10. He's prone to errors and thus hes not been able to consistently put in performances at 10. He has however, made himself invaluable to Wales over the last few years with his utility tag, playing relatively well at 10/centre and 15. Unfortunately, due to moving betwen positions so often he has not nailed down the technical differences that each position requires. This means there's usually a better player available to start in all positions.

I dont think he'll be Wales' 3rd choice 10 for long either, not with the comptition he's got for 10 at Perp and the upcoming young welsh talent.

biggar the number ten at the mo and priestland wouldn't even be on bench if hook was available . Italy next game after this and my bets biggar have the shirt again

Casartelli wrote:"He (Hook) was given numerous opportunities to cement 10 after Jones retired....."

The Tonga game was the first test he's started since Stephen Jones retired.

This is the bit that baffles me about Hook.  He seems to generate so much hatred/misinformation/lying for a bloke that's pretty much always done what Wales have asked of him.

He's like the rugby version of Princess Diana.

Fair play Casartelli i will re phrase it. Certainly wasn't 'lying'

IMO Hook's utility status has cost him dear. SJ retired late 2011 v Aus and yes Hook has not started at 10 since. But he did start the 2008 6 Nations at 10 v England and was then dropped from 10 after Scotland, returning for the the France game. While Jones was approaching the end of his career Hook was given ample opportunity to take over from him but was never consistent at 10 and, key to this issue, because of his over all ability to play Centre and then FB in SA, he became super sub as a utility back because he didn't cement his status as 10. When Jones finally retired Priestland had already been accepted as the new incumbent Welsh 10.

Scratch wrote:

Casartelli wrote:"He (Hook) was given numerous opportunities to cement 10 after Jones retired....."

The Tonga game was the first test he's started since Stephen Jones retired.

This is the bit that baffles me about Hook.  He seems to generate so much hatred/misinformation/lying for a bloke that's pretty much always done what Wales have asked of him.

He's like the rugby version of Princess Diana.

Fair play Casartelli  i will re phrase it. Certainly wasn't 'lying'

IMO Hook's utility status has cost him dear. SJ retired late 2011 v Aus and yes Hook has not started at 10 since. But he did start the 2008 6 Nations at 10 v England and was then dropped from 10 after Scotland, returning for the the France game. While Jones was approaching the end of his career Hook was given ample opportunity to take over from him but was never consistent at 10 and, key to this issue, because of his over all ability to play Centre and then FB in SA, he became super sub as a utility back because he didn't cement his status as 10. When Jones finally retired Priestland had already been accepted as the new incumbent Welsh 10.

I had you in the 'misinformation' category rather than the 'lying' Scratch - no offence intended.

As with the above. After 2008, Hook has never had more than 2 consecutive starts at 10. 'Ample opportunity' is obviously subjective, but given the technical demands of the 10 role, that barely qualifies as an opportunity, let alone an ample one.

I'm not sure why I feel the need to defend Hook. I think it's because I blame Sean Holley for it all.

Casartelli wrote:

Scratch wrote:

Casartelli wrote:"He (Hook) was given numerous opportunities to cement 10 after Jones retired....."

The Tonga game was the first test he's started since Stephen Jones retired.

This is the bit that baffles me about Hook.  He seems to generate so much hatred/misinformation/lying for a bloke that's pretty much always done what Wales have asked of him.

He's like the rugby version of Princess Diana.

Fair play Casartelli  i will re phrase it. Certainly wasn't 'lying'

IMO Hook's utility status has cost him dear. SJ retired late 2011 v Aus and yes Hook has not started at 10 since. But he did start the 2008 6 Nations at 10 v England and was then dropped from 10 after Scotland, returning for the the France game. While Jones was approaching the end of his career Hook was given ample opportunity to take over from him but was never consistent at 10 and, key to this issue, because of his over all ability to play Centre and then FB in SA, he became super sub as a utility back because he didn't cement his status as 10. When Jones finally retired Priestland had already been accepted as the new incumbent Welsh 10.

I had you in the 'misinformation' category rather than the 'lying' Scratch - no offence intended.

As with the above.  After 2008, Hook has never had more than 2 consecutive starts at 10.  'Ample opportunity' is obviously subjective, but given the technical demands of the 10 role, that barely qualifies as an opportunity, let alone an ample one.

I'm not sure why I feel the need to defend Hook.  I think it's because I blame Sean Holley for it all.

Who the heck is lying Cas?

Hook has had more opportunities than any Welsh player at 10 in my living memory, in his first two seasons he has more opportunities that Jones, Robinson and Sweeney combined. The reason he hasn't had many games at test level in the 10 shirt since Wellies Jones has departed is that he hasn't been playing even club, Barbarians, or Lions level rugby at the flyhalf channel, including the club that signed on the promise that he would be first choice flyhalf........ that's helluva lot of coaches with all the same opinion!!

flyhalffactory wrote:

Casartelli wrote:

Scratch wrote:

Casartelli wrote:"He (Hook) was given numerous opportunities to cement 10 after Jones retired....."

The Tonga game was the first test he's started since Stephen Jones retired.

This is the bit that baffles me about Hook.  He seems to generate so much hatred/misinformation/lying for a bloke that's pretty much always done what Wales have asked of him.

He's like the rugby version of Princess Diana.

Fair play Casartelli  i will re phrase it. Certainly wasn't 'lying'

IMO Hook's utility status has cost him dear. SJ retired late 2011 v Aus and yes Hook has not started at 10 since. But he did start the 2008 6 Nations at 10 v England and was then dropped from 10 after Scotland, returning for the the France game. While Jones was approaching the end of his career Hook was given ample opportunity to take over from him but was never consistent at 10 and, key to this issue, because of his over all ability to play Centre and then FB in SA, he became super sub as a utility back because he didn't cement his status as 10. When Jones finally retired Priestland had already been accepted as the new incumbent Welsh 10.

I had you in the 'misinformation' category rather than the 'lying' Scratch - no offence intended.

As with the above.  After 2008, Hook has never had more than 2 consecutive starts at 10.  'Ample opportunity' is obviously subjective, but given the technical demands of the 10 role, that barely qualifies as an opportunity, let alone an ample one.

I'm not sure why I feel the need to defend Hook.  I think it's because I blame Sean Holley for it all.

Who the heck is lying Cas?

Hook has had more opportunities than any Welsh player at 10 in my living memory, in his first two seasons he has more opportunities that Jones, Robinson and Sweeney combined. The reason he hasn't had many games at test level in the 10 shirt since Wellies Jones has departed is that he hasn't been playing even club, Barbarians, or Lions level rugby at the flyhalf channel, including the club that signed on the promise that he would be first choice flyhalf........ that's helluva lot of coaches with all the same opinion!!

Calm down, seriously, you'll do yourself a mischief.

This thread is about the Australia game. If people stopped using it to have an irrelevant (he's not even playing) pop at Hook, I wouldn't need to keep being objective all the soddin time mun!

Casartelli wrote:

flyhalffactory wrote:

Casartelli wrote:

Scratch wrote:

Casartelli wrote:"He (Hook) was given numerous opportunities to cement 10 after Jones retired....."

The Tonga game was the first test he's started since Stephen Jones retired.

This is the bit that baffles me about Hook.  He seems to generate so much hatred/misinformation/lying for a bloke that's pretty much always done what Wales have asked of him.

He's like the rugby version of Princess Diana.

Fair play Casartelli  i will re phrase it. Certainly wasn't 'lying'

IMO Hook's utility status has cost him dear. SJ retired late 2011 v Aus and yes Hook has not started at 10 since. But he did start the 2008 6 Nations at 10 v England and was then dropped from 10 after Scotland, returning for the the France game. While Jones was approaching the end of his career Hook was given ample opportunity to take over from him but was never consistent at 10 and, key to this issue, because of his over all ability to play Centre and then FB in SA, he became super sub as a utility back because he didn't cement his status as 10. When Jones finally retired Priestland had already been accepted as the new incumbent Welsh 10.

I had you in the 'misinformation' category rather than the 'lying' Scratch - no offence intended.

As with the above.  After 2008, Hook has never had more than 2 consecutive starts at 10.  'Ample opportunity' is obviously subjective, but given the technical demands of the 10 role, that barely qualifies as an opportunity, let alone an ample one.

I'm not sure why I feel the need to defend Hook.  I think it's because I blame Sean Holley for it all.

Who the heck is lying Cas?

Hook has had more opportunities than any Welsh player at 10 in my living memory, in his first two seasons he has more opportunities that Jones, Robinson and Sweeney combined. The reason he hasn't had many games at test level in the 10 shirt since Wellies Jones has departed is that he hasn't been playing even club, Barbarians, or Lions level rugby at the flyhalf channel, including the club that signed on the promise that he would be first choice flyhalf........ that's helluva lot of coaches with all the same opinion!!

Calm down, seriously, you'll do yourself a mischief.

This thread is about the Australia game.  If people stopped using it to have an irrelevant (he's not even playing) pop at Hook, I wouldn't need to keep being objective all the soddin time mun!

The OP brought the subject up!!.......

The OP said Hook 'put a hand up' for future selection. It was hardly gushing, over the top, praise but it provoked some hysterical responses.

Truly bizarre.

I have better things to do than be the voice of reason on Hook related matters, you know.

Casartelli wrote:The OP said Hook 'put a hand up' for future selection.  It was hardly gushing, over the top, praise but it provoked some hysterical responses.

Truly bizarre.

I have better things to do than be the voice of reason on Hook related matters, you know.

OP wrote:I don't think anyone put their hands up today except Hook and O Williams

That alludes to stating that only two players played well............ slightly different to what you are attempting to suggest

flyhalffactory wrote:

Casartelli wrote:The OP said Hook 'put a hand up' for future selection.  It was hardly gushing, over the top, praise but it provoked some hysterical responses.

Truly bizarre.

I have better things to do than be the voice of reason on Hook related matters, you know.

OP wrote:I don't think anyone put their hands up today except Hook and O Williams

That alludes to stating that only two players played well............ slightly different to what you are attempting to suggest

I don't think a responses like 'Hook's international career is over' or 'there's no place for you in the Welsh team, Hook' are proportional to the OP either.

It's the responses that I can't fathom. Hook's name is like a red rag to a bull to some folk.

I'll leave it there.

Until someone else has a dig at him for no reason.

HE'S NOT PLAYING!

 

I have already explained i don't think anyone but these two stood out as having put their hands up for consideration for the Aus game. I saw that encounter as an opportunity for the Wales boys to say look at me i want to play v Aus and nobody seemed to take advantage of that.

That is not to say they were the only ones to play well but i was disappointed in their resolve and performance and some didn't play well at all including Lloyd Williams and Charteris, Amos was solid and Ryan was great as usual, i put him in my lineup at lock knowing full well he would be benched as utility lock/back row. Clearly i was right regarding Owen and Hook is unavailable so its academic.

I can honestly say that this is the first time for a LONGGGGGGG time that I have no complaints about the squad selected, given the injuries and player availability I think thats the best side he could have picked.

I am not a Beck or Ll Williams fan so glad neither are involved, I can see and undersyand the calls for Warbs and Tips but Lydiate is our best N06 by the proverbial country mile and we need our best players on the field.

Now lets just go out and perform boys.

I feel one of our only weaknesses is our kicking tactics, sometimes we just carelessly kick to the opposition with no though about what will happen int he next phase. most the time we give the opposition the ball.
I really hope that Rhodri can get the nudge on Slipper but i tell you know that Slipper is an under rated prop. Yes, Australia do have a weak scrum but that's down to the tight head end. I just hope Rhodri can hold him off.
They embarrassed Ireland at scrum time, I just hope that doesn't happen to us. I don't want an scrummaging game like the previous three we have has at the Millennium. I want to see another scrummaging game like the Azzuri vs Argies or France vz SA, both were great battles at scrum time and not the mess we have been happening.

Welsh Magician wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Comfort, when I said Biggar is a plodding fly half, I meant more of a Steve Jones type of fly half than a Carlos Spencer type.  He will do everything that you ask of him, and will be pretty dependable.  However, I would not pin my hopes on him producing anything magic to win the game.  But he will stick to the game plan, and perform his purpose in the game plan (well in Gats style game plan) well.  Priestland on the other hand is a bit more likely to pull something out of the bag from nowhere.  The two of them have different skill sets, and coupled with the scrum halves they have with them (Phillips & Biggar / Rhodri & Priest) we have the potential to go from a safe and controlling style to a all guns blazing poop or bust style.  Against Aus the safety first option is the better to start with and then if we need to turn it around we can go hell for leather afterwards.

What happened in France earlier this year then?

A gamble grubber to touch bouncing luckily to North. A tactical 50-50 type kick and the rub of the green.

I am not knocking him, and have said he should start, but likewise he is far more a tactician than a magician, much like Wellies was. And will most likely be our favoured fly half for big games for years to come.

Are we, or most of us still tied up with notion of us having never had anything other than a magician at outside or is it just dreams?

Our 2 most successful No10s of the last 10-15 yrs have been Wellies and Jinks and both deserved to be up there with the best.

Comfort wrote:SS, I think that was true a few years back but Biggar has become a very rounded flyhalf and imo the best of what we have (consistently). He picks his passes well, his kicking game is still very strong, his defence is top notch for a 10 and he recognises space very early these days! He plays with his head up which wasnt always the case....

Priestland has games where he is pretty much unplayable but he's also prone to having games where he gets his head down and nothing comes off for him. Biggar maybe doesnt reach the heights he can, but doesnt come anywhere near the lows either.

Biggar has the starting 10 slot for me with Priestland on the bench purely down to turning around the welsh ship during the 6ns last season and for what hes contributed across the board so far this season. I wouldn't argue with either starting mind as their both coming along.

Couldn't have put it better myself

On the subject on the selected team, the bench looks very inexperienced to me. Looking at Irelands game on the weekend suggests thats going to be the difference if it comes down to the wire.

bedfordwelsh wrote:Are we, or most of us still tied up with notion of us having never had anything other than a magician at outside or is it just dreams?

Our 2 most successful No10s of the last 10-15 yrs have been Wellies and Jinks and both deserved to be up there with the best.

Yep, people seem to undervalue Jones while over-hyping Hook.

Hook was an effective if inconsistent weapon in 2008

That was 5 years ago!

The game has changed a lot and the Welsh coaching and strategy is barely recognisable for the pre-Gatland era and Gatlands first season or two.

Hook has had 2 games at flyhalf this season - once for his club, once for his country.

Anyone who think Hook should be playing 10 ahead of Biggar or Preistland has completely lost it, and is living in 2008.

IronMike wrote:On the subject on the selected team, the bench looks  very inexperienced to me. Looking at Irelands game on the weekend suggests thats going to be the difference if it comes down to the wire.

Few weak points, but a fair amount of strength

There will be no drop in quality when Owens, Ryan and Tipuric come on.

Rhodri Jones is new, and Preistland erract, but they are a tried and tested club partnership who can change the momentum of a game - just what you want from replacement halfbacks.

Liam Williams is not of the class of North, Cuthbert or Halfpenny - but nobody is, if there is an injury, he will slot in and won't let anyone down.


The only weakness is the replacement prop. Paul James is back with Bath (a big blow), and we have a surprisingly good THP considering Adam, Mitchell, Andrews and Jarvis are all on the sideline.

Lee is a pretty excellent 6th choice THP! and Bevington has a fair amount of experience now, even if he is a bit off form.

IronMike wrote:On the subject on the selected team, the bench looks  very inexperienced to me. Looking at Irelands game on the weekend suggests thats going to be the difference if it comes down to the wire.

IM,

I think given the squad and whose available there was little choice.

wales606 wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:Are we, or most of us still tied up with notion of us having never had anything other than a magician at outside or is it just dreams?

Our 2 most successful No10s of the last 10-15 yrs have been Wellies and Jinks and both deserved to be up there with the best.

Yep, people seem to undervalue Jones while over-hyping Hook.

Hook was an effective if inconsistent weapon in 2008

That was 5 years ago!

The game has changed a lot and the Welsh coaching and strategy is barely recognisable for the pre-Gatland era and Gatlands first season or two.

Hook has had 2 games at flyhalf this season - once for his club, once for his country.

Anyone who think Hook should be playing 10 ahead of Biggar or Preistland has completely lost it, and is living in 2008.

Common sense fellars

+ 4.

Casartelli wrote:

I have better things to do than be the voice of reason on Hook related matters, you know.

yes, so true. like your lol at my hook has flare (flair ) such an error should be duly highlighted. very important.

The brightness of whatever hook had has dimmed. he was very lucky to go to perpignan when he did. and still not play 'his favoured position ' as the pundits call it.

wum Castratethetelly.

come on dan, i've backed you as the number 10 from way back.

I'm a big fan of Priestland, but I'm glad Biggar's starting on Saturday. I think he's just a steadier pair of hands at the moment.

That said, I'm worried we'll be well beaten on Saturday. There's been too much talk about the past few matches going right to the wire, with the assumption that Saturday will be the same. That suggests to me that once again we're going to keep it tight, play a low-risk safety-first game, keep in touch with them and hope that this time, we nick it at the end instead of them. Where's the ambition in that? Also, the Wallabies are a better side now than when we played them last summer, and better than they were this summer when the Lions played them.

Biggar is the better of the two at the moment and should have started against the Boks but Priestland has been on good Regional form to.

Ryan Jones and Tips are not bad subs to bring on. I'd have Amos over Sanjay but then I may be slighlty biased...

wales606 wrote:...Lee is a pretty excellent 6th choice THP!...

He may be in the eyes of Gats, but Lee is the stand out tighthead in the Rabo this season, and Lee is 1st choice at the same region where Rhodri (starting the game) is 3rd/4th choics (Lee, Adriaanse, Manu, Rhodri/Pugea) so there really should be no drop in quality if/when he comes on.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:I'm a big fan of Priestland, but I'm glad Biggar's starting on Saturday. I think he's just a steadier pair of hands at the moment.

That said, I'm worried we'll be well beaten on Saturday. There's been too much talk about the past few matches going right to the wire, with the assumption that Saturday will be the same. That suggests to me that once again we're going to keep it tight, play a low-risk safety-first game, keep in touch with them and hope that this time, we nick it at the end instead of them. Where's the ambition in that? Also, the Wallabies are a better side now than when we played them last summer, and better than they were this summer when the Lions played them.

I know what you mean, all the talk does make it sound like it is going to be a pretty boring match to watch. Ireland and NZ went down tot he wire, but to be honest if you saw the score lines through out the match it didn't look that way (Well taking the fact most people knew the all blacks would come back etc). When people talk about games going down to the wire, it always makes me think that at no point will there be more than 3-5 points between the sides, which tends to mean plenty of kicks and not too many (if any) tries.

Looking at the talent available to both teams I really can't see it being that type of game, unless that is what the coaches want.

Surely after recent International games then Rhodri Jones's stock has risen and that should be reflected by the Scarlets...?

The win clearly means so much to the squad and management after all the near misses, and I'm worried that we'll tighten up as a result and not have a proper go at them. I don't think the Wallabies will have any such problems playing with ball in hand. The motivation for them is, 'how many times do we have to beat you before you realise we're actually better?' They'll want a repeat of 2009 and I can see it happening. They'll want to put us in our place.

munkian wrote: I'd have Amos over Sanjay but then I may be slighlty biased...

  Not after last week  


5 turnovers from 11 runs is not a good stat...

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:I'm a big fan of Priestland, but I'm glad Biggar's starting on Saturday. I think he's just a steadier pair of hands at the moment.

That said, I'm worried we'll be well beaten on Saturday. There's been too much talk about the past few matches going right to the wire, with the assumption that Saturday will be the same. That suggests to me that once again we're going to keep it tight, play a low-risk safety-first game, keep in touch with them and hope that this time, we nick it at the end instead of them. Where's the ambition in that? Also, the Wallabies are a better side now than when we played them last summer, and better than they were this summer when the Lions played them.

Helluva lot of good analysis over the last few messages, and again you are smack bang on the button.

Australia are a totally different proposition to the squad that a then fully fit and available Wales have taken to the very limit over the last two years.

I think that Gats under pressure is a bit of a paradox here.......  

On one hand unless Cuthbert is 100% fit its a massive risk as "Sanjay" Williams has been your best defender, most tackles and none of them missed, where most posters have to admit that even when the 6' 5" Cuthbert has his best defensive game its a tad iffy (a bit like our Visser). So I would say that its a touch of panic mode as tries are one thing your starting 15 might find hard to conjure.

On the other hand with Owen Williams over Beck, Phillps over Williams, Biggar over Priestland, Lydiate over Tuperic, Faletau over Ryan Jones you feel Mr Gatlands hand is forced into a structured safety first approach, rather than a risk based expansive game. I can't see that the Gatland boast of "playing ball in hand from our own 22" happening in the first thirty minutes.

Saying that, this a better structured Welsh 23, with some forwards playing at the very top of their game, Hibbard, AWJ have been bloody awesome, I am always confident about Biggars overall game these days and Scott Williams brings something to the side that Roberts hasn't been able to.

With England beating Oz 20-13 a couple of weeks ago I think there is no reason Wales cannot go one better than their cousins over the bridge.

Wales to win by 12 points