Wales team to face Australia

First topic message reminder :

I don't think anyone put their hands up today except Hook and O Williams
Several were dismal and if i see L Williams on the bench i will be very disappointed. Glad Charteris has gone back as he is off form.


Gethin
Hibbard - player of the autumn for me
Rhodri Jones
AWJ
Ryan Jones - I think Evans will be picked but I think Ryan offers more in the loose and was one of few players who looked like he wanted to play today
Lydiate - needs to up his game as he has been quiet this autumn
Warburton - personally would like to see Tips start and Warbs at 6 but expect tho selection
Faletau - has had a fine autumn
Philipps - superb last week, could be his opportunity to get a club!
Biggar - for his kicking game and is less prone to getting isolated and turned over, i may have picked hook if available as i thought he was good today
North - A quiet autumn and ordinary v Tonga. Time to step up
S Williams - excellent footballer, his big opportunity and I am looking forward to him staking a real claim
O Williams - only real bonus from the Tonga game, looked solid
L Williams - is he fit…who else is there.
Halfpenny - involved in both tries, expect the POTY finalist to have a huge game

Owens
Lee
A Prop
Coombes - in reality i think tho swill be Ryan as i expect Gats to select Evans
Tipuric pref for him to start
R Williams
Priestland - I would def pick Hook if available
Beck - barely but who else is there

Well you on here keep on about put Tips on and put Warby at 6 watched it on Saturday and it did nothing Warbs is no number 6 and even if you think Lyds can do more well maybe he can but he is far in advanced of Warby in that position so yes put Tips on at 7 and do what should be done take your 7 off even if it is your captain

Wales lost the game in 2 key areas.

They were ineffective in slowly down AUS' ruck recycling and they were able to get front foot and quick ball time after time after time. You can't do that with sides with such potent threats in attack.  The backrow blend isn't right. Its not just them though... its all of them. Gethin was your best operator.... thats unacceptable for a top quality test side.

Also the lineout was very poor. I just went on ESPN to check how many lineouts they lost... its says only 2 which I'm very surprised about... I would have sworn it was more than 5. If you lose your lineout you lose your platform.

When you have a hooker who was benched over Youngs 2/3 times in the lions series you know your lineout is in trouble. Hibbard needs to spend last time dreaming about putting people in ambulances and more on securing standard lineout ball.

fa0019 wrote:Wales lost the game in 2 key areas.

They were ineffective in slowly down AUS' ruck recycling and they were able to get front foot and quick ball time after time after time. You can't do that with sides with such potent threats in attack.  The backrow blend isn't right. Its not just them though... its all of them. Gethin was your best operator.... thats unacceptable for a top quality test side.

Also the lineout was very poor. I just went on ESPN to check how many lineouts they lost... its says only 2 which I'm very surprised about... I would have sworn it was more than 5. If you lose your lineout you lose your platform.

When you have a hooker who was benched over Youngs 2/3 times in the lions series you know your lineout is in trouble. Hibbard needs to spend last time dreaming about putting people in ambulances and more on securing standard lineout ball.

I actually agree with you for once.
We do have great players but all of them have their own faults which show against the big 3.
Hibbard throwing in
Halfpenny's Kicking
Sam Warburtons form (clicks from on to off)
Mike Phillips speed
Alex Cuthberts defense



Hey no player is perfect but these factors of their game need to be set straight if we are gong to beat the big 3. Th Southern Hemisphere team are the best at basic skills an that's what separate us from the best. We know we can beat anyone in the Northern Hemisphere smash them even, but they are the next step.

The line-out issue has been around for so long now; I'm guessing that's the McBryde factor - he always looked like a hooker who thought line-out throwing was an optional extra in training.

The Bachelor wrote:The line-out issue has been around for so long now; I'm guessing that's the McBryde factor - he always looked like a hooker who thought line-out throwing was an optional extra in training.

What the heck does that mean? Just by looking at a bloke you have ascertained that!!. Just remember Warren Gatland the guy who employed him was a hooker throughout his career.

Its well documented that every area in defence has improved since McBryde  and most certainly the lineout certainly has. However once the players walk off the training mind-set and onto the playing pitch.... then its all on their backs.

One of Hibbards weaknesses and perhaps now the only one he hasn't improved on consistently is his lineout skils, however he is only a part of the mechanism as you also have the "Line Out General" and to this end I think Ian Evans and AWJ have been poor.

Against Tonga you had Evans and Charteris and still it malfunctioned so I think its down to skill, ability and maybe the calls or lack of understanding

flyhalffactory wrote:

The Bachelor wrote:The line-out issue has been around for so long now; I'm guessing that's the McBryde factor - he always looked like a hooker who thought line-out throwing was an optional extra in training.

What the heck does that mean? Just by looking at a bloke you have ascertained that!!. Just remember Warren Gatland the guy who employed him was a hooker throughout his career.

Looking at the way he played; as in he couldn't hit his jumpers to save his life. Also he was already part of the Welsh coaching team for a couple of years before Gatland took over.

lostinwales wrote:For what its worth I also thought Hibberd was immense- although its always easy to spot what he does with that haircut. And I am now finally beginning to understand the fuss about Faletau. He is a smart and very industrious player, although he isnt a devastating carrier as mentioned here already. Maybe what you need is a really hard running/carrying no.6 to do that job rather than unseen Dan.

Faletua always leads the forwards stats in every game - most carries, most tackles, most metres gained, and he chips in with lineout catches, turnovers and a high tackle count in every game. His Lions stats are better than other forward

And he has an engine that just keeps on running. Ever seen him be subbed ? shows how important he is to wales' game. admittedly he isn't a massive carrier - but Hibbard and warburton do that. You just don't notice him. Perhaps he should regrow his afro. Or dye his hair bright yellow.

PS I am not a Dragons follower before I get accused of bias

flyhalffactory wrote:

The Bachelor wrote:The line-out issue has been around for so long now; I'm guessing that's the McBryde factor - he always looked like a hooker who thought line-out throwing was an optional extra in training.

What the heck does that mean? Just by looking at a bloke you have ascertained that!!. Just remember Warren Gatland the guy who employed him was a hooker throughout his career.

Its well documented that every area in defence has improved since McBryde  and most certainly the lineout certainly has. However once the players walk off the training mind-set and onto the playing pitch.... then its all on their backs.

One of Hibbards weaknesses and perhaps now the only one he hasn't improved on consistently is his lineout skils, however he is only a part of the mechanism as you also have the "Line Out General" and to this end I think Ian Evans and AWJ have been poor.

The welsh line out was great vs Oz. Stole some key throws.

Throwing in the days of gatland was a little different. In those days you had 3 jumpers and half a dozen calls at best... Can anyone remember a lineout outside of front and middle???

Anyone who retired pre 96 is useless really in lineout function unless they retrained as coaches in lineout specifically.... Yet nothing beats the real thing of match experience.

maestegmafia wrote:

flyhalffactory wrote:

The Bachelor wrote:The line-out issue has been around for so long now; I'm guessing that's the McBryde factor - he always looked like a hooker who thought line-out throwing was an optional extra in training.

What the heck does that mean? Just by looking at a bloke you have ascertained that!!. Just remember Warren Gatland the guy who employed him was a hooker throughout his career.

Its well documented that every area in defence has improved since McBryde  and most certainly the lineout certainly has. However once the players walk off the training mind-set and onto the playing pitch.... then its all on their backs.

One of Hibbards weaknesses and perhaps now the only one he hasn't improved on consistently is his lineout skils, however he is only a part of the mechanism as you also have the "Line Out General" and to this end I think Ian Evans and AWJ have been poor.

The welsh line out was great vs Oz. Stole some key throws.

You're not serious are you maesteg??? It was dire.

Watch the tape again, the commentators were even having a joke at it it was that bad. Worst from Wales I've seen in a while. Destroyed your platform.

I was very happy with the steals we took. Ian Evans and Faletau...!

Wales lost 4 of their 9 line outs. That is rubbish stats however, you try to flower it up.

No I said I was very pleased that we stole two line outs. They were really good steals too. Great work by the defensive line out.

Something we haven't been good at since Bob Norster was in the second row.

Well you said the welsh line out was great which is tripe.

2 steals and 4 losses isn't great?

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:Well you said the welsh line out was great which is tripe.

2 steals and 4 losses isn't great?

Why do you care...?

maestegmafia wrote:

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:Well you said the welsh line out was great which is tripe.

2 steals and 4 losses isn't great?

Why do you care...?

Well I am on a forum and I like rugby and I say things that I believe in. What about you?

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:Well you said the welsh line out was great which is tripe.

2 steals and 4 losses isn't great?

Why do you care...?

Well I am on a forum and I like rugby and I say things that I believe in. What about you?

Ill re-phrase that for you..!


Why do you always enter debates on welsh rugby criticising welsh players, posters, teams, fans???

I have no interest in your opinion, I don't think any other welsh rugby fans do either.

I won't apologise for criticising Wales or your opinions. You have a lot to say about Wales and do not like criticism even if it is fair.

You do not speak for most welsh fans and I am glad about that.

Wales and their coach and some fans need to accept they aren't world beaters have some grace and accept your failings.

Going back to he point in question your line outs were not great and most welsh fans would agree with that I'm sure.

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:I won't apologise for criticising Wales or your opinions. You have a lot to say about Wales and do not like criticism even if it is fair.

You do not speak for most welsh fans and I am glad about that.

Wales and their coach and some fans need to accept they aren't world beaters have some grace and accept your failings.

Going back to he point in question your line outs were not great and most welsh fans would agree with that I'm sure.

The question I asked is why do you always enter debates on welsh rugby criticising welsh players, posters, teams, fans???

maestegmafia wrote:

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:I won't apologise for criticising Wales or your opinions. You have a lot to say about Wales and do not like criticism even if it is fair.

You do not speak for most welsh fans and I am glad about that.

Wales and their coach and some fans need to accept they aren't world beaters have some grace and accept your failings.

Going back to he point in question your line outs were not great and most welsh fans would agree with that I'm sure.

The question I asked is why do you always enter debates on welsh rugby criticising welsh players, posters, teams, fans???

So you are 'rephrasing the question' as in changing the subject from the line out to being personal why?

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:I won't apologise for criticising Wales or your opinions. You have a lot to say about Wales and do not like criticism even if it is fair.

You do not speak for most welsh fans and I am glad about that.

Wales and their coach and some fans need to accept they aren't world beaters have some grace and accept your failings.

Going back to he point in question your line outs were not great and most welsh fans would agree with that I'm sure.

The question I asked is why do you always enter debates on welsh rugby criticising welsh players, posters, teams, fans???

So you are 'rephrasing the question' as in changing the subject from the line out to being personal why?

Are you a Tory MP. Or have you just taken lessons from them in avoiding answering simple questions...?

The question I asked is why do you always enter debates on welsh rugby criticising welsh players, posters, teams, fans?

he's just criticising your ludicrous post Maes. are you representative of all welsh players, fans, teams, posters?

maestegmafia wrote:

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:I won't apologise for criticising Wales or your opinions. You have a lot to say about Wales and do not like criticism even if it is fair.

You do not speak for most welsh fans and I am glad about that.

Wales and their coach and some fans need to accept they aren't world beaters have some grace and accept your failings.

Going back to he point in question your line outs were not great and most welsh fans would agree with that I'm sure.

The question I asked is why do you always enter debates on welsh rugby criticising welsh players, posters, teams, fans???

So you are 'rephrasing the question' as in changing the subject from the line out to being personal why?

Are you a Tory MP. Or have you just taken lessons from them in avoiding answering simple questions...?

The question I asked is why do you always enter debates on welsh rugby criticising welsh players, posters, teams, fans?

I have answered your question above - I like rugby. I have an opinion.
Unfortunately you do not accept any criticism of welsh rugby and make it personal if you are proved wrong - as in this case regarding line outs.

You can't expect to be outspoken about rugby in any respect on a forum and refuse to accept a different view without getting personal.

quinsforever wrote:he's just criticising your ludicrous post Maes. are you representative of all welsh players, fans, teams, posters?

quins, he isn't. has the most parochial attitude to wales i have come across and that is the reason wales are held back….6 nations is fine so we are fine

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:I won't apologise for criticising Wales or your opinions. You have a lot to say about Wales and do not like criticism even if it is fair.

You do not speak for most welsh fans and I am glad about that.

Wales and their coach and some fans need to accept they aren't world beaters have some grace and accept your failings.

Going back to he point in question your line outs were not great and most welsh fans would agree with that I'm sure.

The question I asked is why do you always enter debates on welsh rugby criticising welsh players, posters, teams, fans???

So you are 'rephrasing the question' as in changing the subject from the line out to being personal why?

Are you a Tory MP. Or have you just taken lessons from them in avoiding answering simple questions...?

The question I asked is why do you always enter debates on welsh rugby criticising welsh players, posters, teams, fans?

I have answered your question above - I like rugby. I have an opinion.
Unfortunately you do not accept any criticism of welsh rugby and make it personal if you are proved wrong - as in this case regarding line outs.

You can't expect to be outspoken about rugby in any respect on a forum and refuse to accept a different view without getting personal.

Trev

Come on just answer this question, why do you always enter debates on welsh rugby criticising welsh players, posters, teams, fans?

maestegmafia wrote:

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:I won't apologise for criticising Wales or your opinions. You have a lot to say about Wales and do not like criticism even if it is fair.

You do not speak for most welsh fans and I am glad about that.

Wales and their coach and some fans need to accept they aren't world beaters have some grace and accept your failings.

Going back to he point in question your line outs were not great and most welsh fans would agree with that I'm sure.

The question I asked is why do you always enter debates on welsh rugby criticising welsh players, posters, teams, fans???

So you are 'rephrasing the question' as in changing the subject from the line out to being personal why?

Are you a Tory MP. Or have you just taken lessons from them in avoiding answering simple questions...?

The question I asked is why do you always enter debates on welsh rugby criticising welsh players, posters, teams, fans?

I have answered your question above - I like rugby. I have an opinion.
Unfortunately you do not accept any criticism of welsh rugby and make it personal if you are proved wrong - as in this case regarding line outs.

You can't expect to be outspoken about rugby in any respect on a forum and refuse to accept a different view without getting personal.

Trev

Come on just answer this question, why do you always enter debates on welsh rugby criticising welsh players, posters, teams, fans?

Why shouldn't he, does he have to have your permission or something? FFS maesteg you are so stubborn that everything in Wales is ok….it really isn't yet you refuse to acknowledge that and refuse to let others point it out.

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:I won't apologise for criticising Wales or your opinions. You have a lot to say about Wales and do not like criticism even if it is fair.

You do not speak for most welsh fans and I am glad about that.

Wales and their coach and some fans need to accept they aren't world beaters have some grace and accept your failings.

Going back to he point in question your line outs were not great and most welsh fans would agree with that I'm sure.

You're right about the lineout. Though you do only enter articles to have a go at Welsh players, coaches and teams; the highlighted bit for example is a load of BS. Is it your hobby? It's a hobby for most on here.

*Just an honest question, would rather we discuss your point constructively if you're capable.

flyhalffactory wrote:Luckless I don't think it was your players, Warren Gatland made a huge call on Saturday and got it terribly wrong, he used a forward driven game and attempted to strangle the life out of Oz....... it didn't work and such is his autocratic way that he didn't even let the players have a sniff of a Plan:B.

FHF, my point is why, with the forwards-based gameplan not working and the Wallabies having a field day at the breakdown, did the captain just watch it happen? Why didn't he, or any of the others, change things? A captain's job is not to follow orders, but to issue them.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

flyhalffactory wrote:Luckless I don't think it was your players, Warren Gatland made a huge call on Saturday and got it terribly wrong, he used a forward driven game and attempted to strangle the life out of Oz....... it didn't work and such is his autocratic way that he didn't even let the players have a sniff of a Plan:B.

FHF, my point is why, with the forwards-based gameplan not working and the Wallabies having a field day at the breakdown, did the captain just watch it happen? Why didn't he, or any of the others, change things? A captain's job is not to follow orders, but to issue them.

This is something that really bugs me. I've seen England do it for years. In the first half they get mashed at the ruck but carry on putting a handful of guys in to protect the ruck. Come out in the second half and start flooding the ruck. Why not do that before? Are the players completely unable to think for themselves (on a Larger scale than "is there a gap between those props?")? Or do the coaches stop them acting on it?

Surely the desire to win the game should be what swings it? So what if the coach gives you a rocket afterwards for going off script. You can just point to the scoreboard.

The alternative, that the players / captains don't have the nous to see what needs changing, is scary.

The Saint wrote:

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:I won't apologise for criticising Wales or your opinions. You have a lot to say about Wales and do not like criticism even if it is fair.

You do not speak for most welsh fans and I am glad about that.

Wales and their coach and some fans need to accept they aren't world beaters have some grace and accept your failings.

Going back to he point in question your line outs were not great and most welsh fans would agree with that I'm sure.

You're right about the lineout. Though you do only enter articles to have a go at Welsh players, coaches and teams; the highlighted bit for example is a load of BS. Is it your hobby? It's a hobby for most on here.

*Just an honest question, would rather we discuss your point constructively if you're capable.

Nice way to invite a poster to a constructive debate, eh?

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Surely the desire to win the game should be what swings it? So what if the coach gives you a rocket afterwards for going off script. You can just point to the scoreboard.

The alternative, that the players / captains don't have the nous to see what needs changing, is scary.

i think this is a very real problem for most NH teams, including even France these days.

2007 RWC is a great example. relatively clueless coaches force a gameplan on england that the players are clearly struggling with. cue mutiny led by senior players, and a vast improvment throughout the rest of the tournament.

NZ and AUS have players with amazing skills who are obviously coached to look for gaps, overlaps, mismatches, offloads that send the man through, etc, rather than an incredibly rigid gameplan.

teams need to make the best of the resources they have, but in the case of wales, i would argue that Gatland's success has given him too much power to impose a gameplan at the expense of stifling player creativity. there have been some really bad decisions by certain welsh backs at key moments in the SA AUS matches and it felt like they didnt know what they were doing, and i can only imagine that is because they thought they needed to be doing something different from what their instincts told them to do.

Biltong wrote:

The Saint wrote:

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:I won't apologise for criticising Wales or your opinions. You have a lot to say about Wales and do not like criticism even if it is fair.

You do not speak for most welsh fans and I am glad about that.

Wales and their coach and some fans need to accept they aren't world beaters have some grace and accept your failings.

Going back to he point in question your line outs were not great and most welsh fans would agree with that I'm sure.

You're right about the lineout. Though you do only enter articles to have a go at Welsh players, coaches and teams; the highlighted bit for example is a load of BS. Is it your hobby? It's a hobby for most on here.

*Just an honest question, would rather we discuss your point constructively if you're capable.

Nice way to invite a poster to a constructive debate, eh?

He had the option of ignoring your bolded part and entering constructive debate .

quinsforever wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Surely the desire to win the game should be what swings it? So what if the coach gives you a rocket afterwards for going off script. You can just point to the scoreboard.

The alternative, that the players / captains don't have the nous to see what needs changing, is scary.

i think this is a very real problem for most NH teams, including even France these days.

2007 RWC is a great example. relatively clueless coaches force a gameplan on england that the players are clearly struggling with. cue mutiny led by senior players, and a vast improvment throughout the rest of the tournament.

NZ and AUS have players with amazing skills who are obviously coached to look for gaps, overlaps, mismatches, offloads that send the man through, etc, rather than an incredibly rigid gameplan.

teams need to make the best of the resources they have, but in the case of wales, i would argue that Gatland's success has given him too much power to impose a gameplan at the expense of stifling player creativity. there have been some really bad decisions by certain welsh backs at key moments in the SA AUS matches and it felt like they didnt know what they were doing, and i can only imagine that is because they thought they needed to be doing something different from what their instincts told them to do.

Funny thing is you read anything about Brian Ashton and the no.1 thing you will come away with is his desire to see the players take responsibility for what happens on the pitch.

but back then wasnt he trying to inculcate a kind of "total rugby" that england were struggling with?

maybe he tried to do something different as eng manager from how he normally runs his teams.

quinsforever wrote:but back then wasnt he trying to inculcate a kind of "total rugby" that england were struggling with?

maybe he tried to do something different as eng manager from how he normally runs his teams.

I vaguely remember hearing something about Barkley says "For God's sake Brian we don't know what we're supposed to be doing" or something like that. I think he was trying to get them to think for themselevs but they weren't used to it so just didn't have a clue what they were doing. I think the senior players then just sat down and sorted out a game plan to take into the games.

I haven't read any of the books (other than LD and he said Ashton seemed to like playing mind games, not telling players who was selected for the squad and being mysterious over it) so mostly conjecture from the limited info on it.

fa0019 wrote:Wales lost the game in 2 key areas.

They were ineffective in slowly down AUS' ruck recycling and they were able to get front foot and quick ball time after time after time. You can't do that with sides with such potent threats in attack.  The backrow blend isn't right. Its not just them though... its all of them. Gethin was your best operator.... thats unacceptable for a top quality test side.

Also the lineout was very poor. I just went on ESPN to check how many lineouts they lost... its says only 2 which I'm very surprised about... I would have sworn it was more than 5. If you lose your lineout you lose your platform.

When you have a hooker who was benched over Youngs 2/3 times in the lions series you know your lineout is in trouble. Hibbard needs to spend last time dreaming about putting people in ambulances and more on securing standard lineout ball.

I totally agree with the points made. Forwards win matches backs just decide by how much. Wales lost out in both tight and loose forward exchanges, even the scrum looked dodgy until Lee came on late in the game.

I would though, like to add another facet of the game where Wales were found wanting and that was the wide defence. Lyn Jones wanted Beck to be chosen for this match because he controls the rush defence so well. But Gats went with the inexperienced Owen Williams, who seemed out of sync with the other wide backs who were having to cut back infield to cover.

I think both teams worked out each other's lineouts, thus the slightly bizarre lineout stats.

And Australia worked out where to attack Wales' blitz defence- all their tries and near tries came through our outside centre channel. Need to sort that out by 6 nations or everyone will be attacking that channel.

And tipuric and warburton at 6 and 7 is the way to go - especially against fast southern hemisphere teams. Not necessary against the plodding behemoths England and France ?

If Warburton isn't playing well enough to start at openside, then Tipuric starts. The question then should be, is Warburton the best blindside we have? We shouldn't shoehorn him into the side just because he's captain, especially when he isn't showing much in the way of leadership.

Lyd, Tips, Faletau


Warbs has a stinger ATM, missing next Blues game

Lyd Tips Faletau

or

Warbs Tips Faletau

Ryan Jones on the bench to cover in both scenarios.

To me, Tiperic HAS to start, hes been deserving of a place for long enough and we're lacking intelligent ball players (especially with JD2 out).

This is my 'I told you so' about the return of Cuthbert and having Owen Williams at 13, we were attacked there and generally battered everytime, Scott Williams covering defence was excellent, as was North coming in a number of times to try and stem the ball from geting out wide. Had Liam Williams started I think this genuinely would have been different (and Im a blues/big Cuthbert fan)

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:If Warburton isn't playing well enough to start at openside, then Tipuric starts. The question then should be, is Warburton the best blindside we have? We shouldn't shoehorn him into the side just because he's captain, especially when he isn't showing much in the way of leadership.

LP,

Thats why I think AWJ should be skipper, he's our best 2nd row and there would be no need to shoehorn Warburton into the side ahead of Lydiate who is our best blindside by the proverbial mile.

bedfordwelsh wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:If Warburton isn't playing well enough to start at openside, then Tipuric starts. The question then should be, is Warburton the best blindside we have? We shouldn't shoehorn him into the side just because he's captain, especially when he isn't showing much in the way of leadership.

LP,

Thats why I think AWJ should be skipper, he's our best 2nd row and there would be no need to shoehorn Warburton into the side ahead of Lydiate who is our best blindside by the proverbial mile.

He's the best at chopping ball carriers down - which is perfect if the opposition get drawn into a tight Gatlandball arm wrestle. If the game is fast and open he is much less effective at test level. Thus a Warbs/Tips combo is a legitimate alternative.

Having said that, it is pretty much just tinkering - won't make much difference either way.

A Sean O'Brien/Ben Morgan style wrecking-ball of a player might, if we could find/repassport one.

As i put earlier on this thread Warby is not an international number 6 as was observed by several pundits after the Argentine game.Lydiate is by far Wales best number 6. I watched the game on Saturday when they brought on Tips and again when i got home after recording it and it achieved nothing .If you are going to put Tips on then off Warby has to go captain or not and it would have been Warby who should have gone on Saturday as he did nothing .I like Warby when in form but he has been far from it for quite a while It,s been either Lyds or Tips who are being not playing or substituted to accommodate Warby and it just should not be

Does seem like Warburton is made of glass these days too

I still like the idea of Shingler at 6. He's such an athlete, great in open play and a lineout option too.

Lucky, Shingler is a very good openside for a barbarian style approach to rugby, where you are not as worried about defence, just scoring more than the opposition. But seeing as the current system is built around defence and conceding less than the opposition, I don't think he fits in. (Yes I know that scoring more and conceding less are actually the same, but hopefully people will get my point).