Wales team to face Australia

First topic message reminder :

I don't think anyone put their hands up today except Hook and O Williams
Several were dismal and if i see L Williams on the bench i will be very disappointed. Glad Charteris has gone back as he is off form.


Gethin
Hibbard - player of the autumn for me
Rhodri Jones
AWJ
Ryan Jones - I think Evans will be picked but I think Ryan offers more in the loose and was one of few players who looked like he wanted to play today
Lydiate - needs to up his game as he has been quiet this autumn
Warburton - personally would like to see Tips start and Warbs at 6 but expect tho selection
Faletau - has had a fine autumn
Philipps - superb last week, could be his opportunity to get a club!
Biggar - for his kicking game and is less prone to getting isolated and turned over, i may have picked hook if available as i thought he was good today
North - A quiet autumn and ordinary v Tonga. Time to step up
S Williams - excellent footballer, his big opportunity and I am looking forward to him staking a real claim
O Williams - only real bonus from the Tonga game, looked solid
L Williams - is he fit…who else is there.
Halfpenny - involved in both tries, expect the POTY finalist to have a huge game

Owens
Lee
A Prop
Coombes - in reality i think tho swill be Ryan as i expect Gats to select Evans
Tipuric pref for him to start
R Williams
Priestland - I would def pick Hook if available
Beck - barely but who else is there

What did Owen Williams say GE?

Where are these so-called better players?
There must be some eugenics programme we don't know about with the sole purpose of producing bigger, stronger and fitter players.
If that isn't so then he's kidding himself.

GloriousEmpire wrote:I thought Owen Williams was holding things up. He was ponderous. Didn't take the line with conviction and his distribution was weak. Doesn't seem to have a kicking game at all.
Must really regret this:

http://www.campaignseries.co.uk/sport/wales_rugby/10845073.Wales_have_better_players_than_Israel_Folau__says_Owen_Williams/

This is the main cause of Wales downfall. Too much pre game talk which then looks stupid if they dont win . Like this little soundbite considering Folau had his way with the Welsh defense  

LB, I think it's a bit daft that you're a headline reader too. He didn't say those words, he was stating he believed Wales have players that are as good as Folau (and they have one who is better actually (North )). He spoke highly of the Aus team and has seemingly idolised some of your most skillful guys like two-dads.

Linebreaker wrote:Where are these so-called better players?
There must be some eugenics programme we don't know about with the sole purpose of producing bigger, stronger and fitter players.
If that isn't so then he's kidding himself.

 

Yeah someone touched a nerve there.

GloriousEmpire wrote:I thought Owen Williams was holding things up. He was ponderous. Didn't take the line with conviction and his distribution was weak. Doesn't seem to have a kicking game at all.
Must really regret this:

http://www.campaignseries.co.uk/sport/wales_rugby/10845073.Wales_have_better_players_than_Israel_Folau__says_Owen_Williams/

yeah i read that one too. What was he thinking? he's played once at MS for Wales and he's dissing Folau? what retards in the welsh mgmt setup allowed him in front of a an interviewer?

i think wales were exhausted after all the interviews they gave pre-match...

The Saint wrote:LB, I think it's a bit daft that you're a headline reader too. He didn't say those words, he was stating he believed Wales have players that are as good as Folau (and they have one who is better actually (North )). He spoke highly of the Aus team and has seemingly idolised some of your most skillful guys like two-dads.

Direct quote:

"We have players who are as good, if not better"

Disrespecting your vastly superior opposition in the lead up when you've only got a couple of caps is an arrogant look, and deserves to be ridiculed when the guy stitched you up all afternoon long...

North 'better' than Folau

Oh dear did we learn anything today.

Yes, it was about as useful of the Haka before the RLWC Final this evening. Not really worth the while in the end. All bluff and no teeth.

I'd rather see shots of the crowd singing the anthems.

Fairly predictable that NZ would get stitched up in the league. We are the equivalent of Wales there - never seem to beat the kangaroos, and make ourselves look like Muppet suggesting it in the lead up. We were never going to get within 20 points. But you're welcome to it. You keep winning the league and we'll keep winning the rugby and I'll be happy

it's really un-PC and i was actually looking for the welsh translation of "sheep-shagger" to post on a GE thread about what NZ are good at...

but i just came across this and had to share it.

feel free to delete it if its inappropriate, but i thought it was hilariously done...

http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Sheep_shagging

along the same lines. wish i'd discovered this website before

http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Sport_in_New_Zealand

GloriousEmpire wrote:

The Saint wrote:LB, I think it's a bit daft that you're a headline reader too. He didn't say those words, he was stating he believed Wales have players that are as good as Folau (and they have one who is better actually (North )). He spoke highly of the Aus team and has seemingly idolised some of your most skillful guys like two-dads.

Direct quote:

"We have players who are as good, if not better"

Disrespecting your vastly superior opposition in the lead up when you've only got a couple of caps is an arrogant look, and deserves to be ridiculed when the guy stitched you up all afternoon long...

Why is it disprespectful? He was very respectful to Australia in his entire interview. All he said was is that he thought Wales had some players as good as Folau, and saying "as good, if not better" isn't really claiming to have superior players. We all know this would have been okay if a non-Wales player said it anyway, so I won't bother wasting any more time on tedious headline readers.

Congrats LB, Australia are looking very good.

quinsforever wrote:

GloriousEmpire wrote:I thought Owen Williams was holding things up. He was ponderous. Didn't take the line with conviction and his distribution was weak. Doesn't seem to have a kicking game at all.
Must really regret this:

http://www.campaignseries.co.uk/sport/wales_rugby/10845073.Wales_have_better_players_than_Israel_Folau__says_Owen_Williams/

yeah i read that one too. What was he thinking? he's played once at MS for Wales and he's dissing Folau? what retards in the welsh mgmt setup allowed him in front of a an interviewer?

i think wales were exhausted after all the interviews they gave pre-match...

And Warbuton for all his talk about expecting to beat Australia was nowhere to be seen   I know theres no point playing if you dont think you can win but sometimes its best to keep it in house . You never hear the best teams in the world predicting victories in the press but you can be sure its written on the walls in their changing room. Wales have the skill and personnel to become world leaders. They just need to shut up and get on with the job at hand. Then after the victory feel free to tell us how you expected to win all along  

Bullsbok wrote:

quinsforever wrote:

GloriousEmpire wrote:I thought Owen Williams was holding things up. He was ponderous. Didn't take the line with conviction and his distribution was weak. Doesn't seem to have a kicking game at all.
Must really regret this:

http://www.campaignseries.co.uk/sport/wales_rugby/10845073.Wales_have_better_players_than_Israel_Folau__says_Owen_Williams/

yeah i read that one too. What was he thinking? he's played once at MS for Wales and he's dissing Folau? what retards in the welsh mgmt setup allowed him in front of a an interviewer?

i think wales were exhausted after all the interviews they gave pre-match...

And Warbuton for all his talk about expecting to beat Australia was nowhere to be seen   I know theres no point playing if you dont think you can win but sometimes its best to keep it in house . You never hear the best teams in the world predicting victories in the press but you can be sure its written on the walls in their changing room.  Wales have the skill and personnel to become world leaders. They just need to shut up and get on with the job at hand. Then after the victory feel free to tell us how you expected to win all along  

or better, after the victory, say to the public how well the opposition played and how everything went your way on the day and you are really pleased with the result. keeps oppo teams off-balance for the next giant killing.

GloriousEmpire wrote:

Linebreaker wrote:Where are these so-called better players?
There must be some eugenics programme we don't know about with the sole purpose of producing bigger, stronger and fitter players.
If that isn't so then he's kidding himself.

 

Yeah someone touched a nerve there.

You like it?  

Thanks Saint.

Linebreaker wrote:

GloriousEmpire wrote:

Linebreaker wrote:Where are these so-called better players?
There must be some eugenics programme we don't know about with the sole purpose of producing bigger, stronger and fitter players.
If that isn't so then he's kidding himself.

 

Yeah someone touched a nerve there.

You like it?  

Absolute trench warfare of a post.

GloriousEmpire wrote:

Linebreaker wrote:

GloriousEmpire wrote:

Linebreaker wrote:Where are these so-called better players?
There must be some eugenics programme we don't know about with the sole purpose of producing bigger, stronger and fitter players.
If that isn't so then he's kidding himself.

 

Yeah someone touched a nerve there.

You like it?  

Absolute trench warfare of a post.

I suppose the battle will continue on the rugby field.

in the interest of balance

http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Wales

http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/England

http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Ireland

http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/France

DeludedOptimistorjustDave wrote:Gatland must address Warburton and Phillips ,Warburton is keeping a far superior player out at the moment,not saying for all time but right now Tupric is well ahead of him,then we see AWJ looking more like the captain by each moment.
Phillips has had his day,always been a fan but the Welsh pack are far better than four years ago they don't need such an abrasive scrum half as proven when he went off.

Warburton shouldn't be in the side, let alone captaining it. In what way does he actually lead? When the Wallabies were well on top at the start of the second half (that's not to say they weren't well on top throughout), they were whooping and back-slapping every time they won a penalty. Warburton, on the other hand, was mute, a mere spectator. Where was the chat? Where was the reading of the Riot Act? Or does he leave that to Daddy Gatland? Warburton is a model sportsman but when the chips are down, he's no leader of men.

And Mike Phillips was just awful. How much did Israel Folau pay him for all those kicks straight down his throat? It's just as well Folau's no threat on the counter, eh Mike?

It would have been so much better if the Wallabies had converted all their chances and put a proper big score on us. Then maybe - just maybe - we would have the good grace to accept and admit that a) the better side won, and b) actions speak louder than words. Keep your powder dry, you morons!

Thought Moore was class for Oz. Hibbard as well in defense but Moore's passing and running was better then the Welsh centres!

Mentioned somewhere else as well that the Wales backrow needs changing. Look at the impact Heaslip and Morgan/Vunipola have for their teams and the Welsh no8 is just no where near their level. He's just a good safety net.

We were a distant second best at the breakdown, but Toby was one of the few players to do himself credit yesterday. Warburton and Lydiate, fair enough.

Unfortunately I think Yappy is right. Toby is a good player but he won't fill defenders with fear ball in hand, which an 8 needs to do. He does everything else really well but I reckon you'd swap him for Morgan given the chance. As I've said elsewhere, I just don't understand the way Wales (and the backrow in particular), played yesterday. It was like they just didn't turn up. That's frustrating for me, a neutral, so I can only imagine how annoying it must be to the home fans!

It was only a friendly, no biggie...  

That match was there for the taking...  

Wish we could go back to the spirit of 2005. Then we put the fear into opponents. We've got the players to do it too

mystiroakey wrote:England have closed out quite a few more games in that time period though GE and lets not start up the whole reffing thing v ENG,OZ!

get over it bud!

Not against SH opposition though. The return there is comparatively small. England are not entirely dissimilar to the position Wales find themselves in - but they've sneaked the odd circumstantial win and those flatter the statistics in a faux-reassuring way, surely?

No we have just won games.

Again stop your nonsense.

Remember last time you wouldn't stop going on and on mate

ultra wrote:Unfortunately I think Yappy is right. Toby is a good player but he won't fill defenders with fear ball in hand, which an 8 needs to do. He does everything else really well but I reckon you'd swap him for Morgan given the chance. As I've said elsewhere, I just don't understand the way Wales (and the backrow in particular), played yesterday. It was like they just didn't turn up. That's frustrating for me, a neutral, so I can only imagine how annoying it must be to the home fans!

I thought Faletau was one of the very few Welsh positives yesterday. I can think of quite a few English players I'd happily swap with their Welsh counterparts at the moment, but Morgan for Faletau isn't one of them. Warburton and Lydiate were poor though (Warburton especially); we got owned at the breakdown too often. Tipuric and Rhodri Williams coming on seemed to redress the balance in that area somewhat so maybe those changes should have been made sooner.

He's good. But he ain't gonna worry anyone. Tipuric I think is fantastic but then so is Warburton when he's playing the home nations.

Thought Faletau really saved the bacon for Wales in the first half when the wallabies had slewed a Welsh 5 metres scrum and looking for a steal/disruption when he quickly picked the ball up and got away from the danger zone.

OzT wrote:Thought Faletau really saved the bacon for Wales in the first half when the wallabies had slewed a Welsh 5 metres scrum and looking for a steal/disruption when he quickly picked the ball up and got away from the danger zone.

Made a great tackle on the Honey Badger when he was in for a try as well. Faletau has been great all autumn.

The Saint wrote:

GloriousEmpire wrote:

The Saint wrote:LB, I think it's a bit daft that you're a headline reader too. He didn't say those words, he was stating he believed Wales have players that are as good as Folau (and they have one who is better actually (North )). He spoke highly of the Aus team and has seemingly idolised some of your most skillful guys like two-dads.

Direct quote:

"We have players who are as good, if not better"

Disrespecting your vastly superior opposition in the lead up when you've only got a couple of caps is an arrogant look, and deserves to be ridiculed when the guy stitched you up all afternoon long...

Why is it disprespectful? He was very respectful to Australia in his entire interview. All he said was is that he thought Wales had some players as good as Folau, and saying "as good, if not better" isn't really claiming to have superior players. We all know this would have been okay if a non-Wales player said it anyway, so I won't bother wasting any more time on tedious headline readers.

Congrats LB, Australia are looking very good.

I can't believe this site.

About twenty Scotland supporters watched (as independent supporters) what was a superb game of rugby to end the AI series, both sides gave their all, and it contained every facet of what was good about the game of rugby. We all thought it was a great, highly pressurised, highly intense match.

Now this evening I have just read the top ten new topics and they are all about childish baiting and countering with an equally childish puerile ripostes concerning the Wales v OZ match.

And if you think a young lad of what 22/23 when asked and led by the press, cannot state that he thinks his home country has players to equal or better his forthcoming opponents when clearly on yesterdays performance George North is (and lets be quite clear about it the Israel Folau attempt to stop him going over for his second try was pretty dire), and over a period of twelve months the likes of Hibbard who has been just immense, Jon Davies, Leigh Halfpenny (who I think was carrying a thigh injury most of the game) most certainly are.

You should all grow up and recognise what a great spectacular it was, and leave the childishness for the playground of your youth.

My thoughts on the welsh side of things:

Picking Cuthbert was a mistake (as I said so last week and was shot down by the majority of other welsh posters), defensively he and O.Williams were taught a lesson, Scott Williams improved his stock again for me, was it not for some of his covering tackling Australia could have found themselves another 7-14 points ahead. Liam Williams showed his worth when he came on and established himself in th little time he had more than Cuthbert did the entire game. I just dont understand the thinking when you select a rookie at 13, an obviously less than 100% Cuthbert (who is not a great defender) on the wing against a side who is more dangerous than any at attacking out wide....

Phillips has had his day, I called for him to be left out of the AIs squad hoping we could find our next 9, Rhodri Williams seems to have usurped Lloyd though (hopefully) so not all lost at 9 if we start moving forward.

North was a shining light in attack, it was quite horrible to see us resort to 'give the ball to North' though, have we learnt nothing since we did this with Shane? Before this game we'd started to show small improvements in our game (forwards taking the ball at pace, players holding the defence with convincing dummy runs and ballcarriers aiming at the outside shoulders of defenders) but on Saturday we reverted back to our previous ways. I put this down to having too little of the ball in hand to establish ourselves and reverting to type/panicking when we did.

Our lineout was poor, I'm not sure what happened but it was very poor, Ian Evans hasn't been playing regularly for his club so how he was expected to step up and play against NZ was interesting, generally did ok in he loose but would have prefered Coombes.

Lydiate/Warburton were pretty anonymous. Tips needs to get some regular gametime now, whether that means Warbs gets dropped or is moved to 6 in place of Lydiate in a hourses for courses move I'm not sure. More than likely Warburton to the bench.

We just didnt keep hold of the ball well enough, you give Australia that man chances to attack you then they'll score. Well done Australia, I thought it probably should have been more by the end. An entertaining game for the netural no doubt, another source of fustration as a welsh fan who just keeps seeing 'more of the same'.

Anyone see the Jonathan Davies documentary on BBC after the Wales game?

It was class and it really does remind you what a good player he was. A real reminder of how rugby is becoming more and more structured and how players who play what is in front of them are harder to come by.

Must say I really admire the guy. He has had a really interesting life.

mystiroakey wrote:Remember last time you wouldn't stop going on and on mate

Yes, he got carded for repeatedly holding on.

For what its worth I also thought Hibberd was immense- although its always easy to spot what he does with that haircut. And I am now finally beginning to understand the fuss about Faletau. He is a smart and very industrious player, although he isnt a devastating carrier as mentioned here already. Maybe what you need is a really hard running/carrying no.6 to do that job rather than unseen Dan.

Agree, I quite like watching him, has a lot of energy on the field

Every back row needs a Faletau / Juan Smith who just puts his head down and gets the jobs done. Nothing flashy but super reliable and consistent

Warbs was really disapointing, he just seemed to have no energy or speed.

Every Back row needs a Brown as well. A true super hero type

After watching the wales aus game- jeas did they remind me of England though!

Great forwards, rubbish backs!!

MMaaxx wrote:Warbs was really disapointing, he just seemed to have no energy or speed.

And he was quiet as a mouse too. We need a proper vocal captain, someone who really rallies the troops when we're up against it.

There does seem to be a lot of pressure on Warburton and however good he may or may not be in private, in public he has never really struck me as an inspiring player. Given that there is decent, even more than decent back up in Tipuric surely you'd be better off with AWJ as skipper and dropping Warbs for a while until he gets his mojo back.

LIW, I actually think Warbs would benefit being at 6 with Tips at 7. Tupiric has to be on the field though, I've been shouting about it for about a year, I dont know what moe he can do. Warburton needs the pressure taken off him I think. AWJ is clearly our starting number 4 and Gethin Jenkins at 1, I'd be happy with either as captain.

Comfort wrote:LIW, I actually think Warbs would benefit being at 6 with Tips at 7. Tupiric has to be on the field though, I've been shouting about it for about a year, I dont know what moe he can do. Warburton needs the pressure taken off him I think. AWJ is clearly our starting number 4 and Gethin Jenkins at 1, I'd be happy with either as captain.

Well (sadly for me) we all know how well the Warbs/ Tips/ Faletau back row did vs England- but is there a really good no.6 who can carry who might make for better back row balance?

Coombes would probably be the guy for an abbrasive 6 (was introduced over last season or so as a backrow/lock).

Warburton is a decent carrier, he wont break through defenders but he'll usually get past the shoulder and create a platform for his forwads to hit, if he does wridgle past the tackler he has the speed to eat up 30/40m+ pretty sharpish.

We dont really have any wrecking ball type players a la the Vunipola/Alberts so I'd try and get as much speed in our backrow without losing too much in strength, Warbuton/Tupiric/Faletau is decent, and with AWJ/Charteris(or Davies) in front of them isnt lacking size for a back 5 either. In front of them you've got Gethin & Hibbard so its still a pretty large pack all told....

I do wish we had heavy duty ball carrier in the backrow mind, I dont think Faletaus ever going to excel at that role in particular.

think its obvious changes need to be made in the way Wales play and who we play ahead of the 6N. We are capable of playing rugby similar to the 2005 side because we have the players to execute that style even more so than that side. We need to play without fear and crucially with instinct allot more. We play such a regimented, step by step style that players ignore their natural rugby brain and play to plan, something the top sides do not.

Also time for some players to drop out. Phillips has been a super servant for Wales and has won us games with moments of brilliance. But his overall SH play is detrimental to our backs and thus needs to be dropped. We have a variety of SH's who could all come in and quicken our service up from the breakdown and allow our backs to be even more destructive:

G.Davies
R.Rees
R.Williams
Evans

To name but a few. Tipuric needs to start. He's a world class 7 being kept out by Warbuton on possibly favoritism or past reputation. Tips is doing it here and now and should be one of the first names down on the team sheet.

Liam, I think what we need is variety. We have now got two totally different style fly halves, a risk taker (Priestland, with the likes of Hook, Patchell and Matthew Morgan behind him) and a calm tactician (Biggar, with the likes of Owen Williams, and Sam Davies behind him). Depending on what the game plan is, we can pick and chose between them, with the other on the bench to change the style of play around when needed. We also have two different styles of scrum half, Phillips and the list you just posted. The thing we could do with is a back up for the Phillips type scrum half, which tends to be noticeable when Mike isn't available and we depend on Lloyd Williams, Tav Knoyle etc (going back to when Mike last missed a big game), and we tend to be caught out as we can't swap up the game plan.

Tipuric is just the kind of instinctive footballer we need. We're still far too regimented. Take Australia's try just before half time; we had the ball, but instead of clearing it, we took it through the forwards when there was no need (something we did time and again in our own 22, even when it was clear Hooper was having a field day), Hibbard got flattened and turned over - it had to be Hibbard, after all his chat before the game - and they score on the right.

If the players don't have the nous to realise our tactics aren't working, we're in trouble. If Gatland won't let them change the tactics, we're sunk.

Luckless I don't think it was your players, Warren Gatland made a huge call on Saturday and got it terribly wrong, he used a forward driven game and attempted to strangle the life out of Oz....... it didn't work and such is his autocratic way that he didn't even let the players have a sniff of a Plan:B. These are the stats, Australia only run 25 more times than Wales but almost made twice as many metres, you can see the runners for Wales were their forwards short bursts but with Oz it was their expansive back play that won the match.

Wales Australia
2 Tries 3
2 from 2 Conversion goals 3 from 3
4 from 5 Penalty goals 3 from 3
86.0% Kick at goal success 100.0%
0 Dropped goals 0 (1 missed)

Kick/pass/run
21 Kicks from hand 21
119 Passes 167
111 Runs 136
390 Metres run with ball 698

Attacking
48% (41%/53%) Possession (1H/2H) 52% (59%/47%)
43% (34%/49%) Territory (1H/2H) 57% (66%/51%)
7 Clean breaks 13
15 Defenders beaten 14
9 Offloads 11
83 from 92 (90.2%) Rucks won 92 from 98 (93.9%)
2 from 3 (66.7%) Mauls won 6 from 7 (85.7%)
10 Turnovers conceded 16

Defensive
137/14 Tackles made/missed 118/15
91.0% Tackling success rate 89.0%