Wales team to face Australia

First topic message reminder :

I don't think anyone put their hands up today except Hook and O Williams
Several were dismal and if i see L Williams on the bench i will be very disappointed. Glad Charteris has gone back as he is off form.


Gethin
Hibbard - player of the autumn for me
Rhodri Jones
AWJ
Ryan Jones - I think Evans will be picked but I think Ryan offers more in the loose and was one of few players who looked like he wanted to play today
Lydiate - needs to up his game as he has been quiet this autumn
Warburton - personally would like to see Tips start and Warbs at 6 but expect tho selection
Faletau - has had a fine autumn
Philipps - superb last week, could be his opportunity to get a club!
Biggar - for his kicking game and is less prone to getting isolated and turned over, i may have picked hook if available as i thought he was good today
North - A quiet autumn and ordinary v Tonga. Time to step up
S Williams - excellent footballer, his big opportunity and I am looking forward to him staking a real claim
O Williams - only real bonus from the Tonga game, looked solid
L Williams - is he fit…who else is there.
Halfpenny - involved in both tries, expect the POTY finalist to have a huge game

Owens
Lee
A Prop
Coombes - in reality i think tho swill be Ryan as i expect Gats to select Evans
Tipuric pref for him to start
R Williams
Priestland - I would def pick Hook if available
Beck - barely but who else is there

Scrumpy wrote:

Scratch wrote:Wales top 2 inches AWOL again.

Aside from North and Hibbard, Lydiate, Bevington and Faletau, we were poor.

Sam has o be canned as skipper and frankly i think Tips must be given more starts.

Gethin is on his way out

Ian Evans should go, would dhav preferred Ryan or even Coombes

Philipps, just too sow for a side on the back foot, great when  he is over the mainline but  we can't get over it

Just shows us how we rely on Doc too as our centers were anonymous

You have to hand it to George though, what a player

I am utterly disappointed and feel it is time for a radical re think on Howley and Edwards, McbRIDE AND Sam

What about Gats?
The buck stops with him too surely?

aye too true but wales can't go nuclear. there is certainly a discussion to be had.

i think there will be murmurings about it and they are justified; there is a fine balance between what wales fans will tolerate going forward to RWC and what gats achieves so regularly at 6 Nations time….it's feast and famine on the red roller coaster and he produces so often in the spring his abysmal showing v SH is ignored it seems

if we stuff the 6 Nations - for me that would deb worse than 3rd - then it begs the question should he go but it's too late and who would replace him

at the end of the day he is very good at eating silverware but his coaching has now been shown to have serious limitations

has gats won a game v SH for wales?

I think they have lost 20 games on the spin V SH or something. How can anyone justify gatland staying is beyond stupid.

Wales are much better than that.

winning 6 nations is fine, but AI's are just as big of a deal

Wales are so close yet something is missing, is Gats the man to find it?

mystiroakey wrote:has gats won a game v SH for wales?

yep

before I go and drown my sorrows here is my take on the game.

At first I was so optimistic with North's try coming from our own 22 after a great counter attack.
However Aus just came back into it with Cooper playing superbly, that out the door pass was brilliant. Aus screwed up so many chances and were clearly the better side.
a few puzzling refereeing decisions.

1) The "forward pass try"- in real time it didn't look forward, however on the TMO the ball clearly went forward, so that confused/angered many of us in the stands.
2) Biggars card- I was on right by there and I had no idea what the card was for
3) Coopers card/North's none try- seriously I just have no idea what happened there.

North was so much better at 13, but on the wing his defence was poor.
Cuthbert anonymous but not shown up in defence
Halfpenny must have been carrying an injury
Hibbard, AWJ, Faletau, Bevington, Tipuric, Owens were good in the pack.
Phillips is too slow, Rhodri speeded the game up well with priestland, who I thought played well and the little kick at the end was a good idea, just a tiny bit too much weight.

Overall not a great game for us welsh, but 4 points difference, missing 1st choice centre, there are some positives. Aussies well played. Cooper finally showing some form (DAMN HIM)
right where is that bottle of whiskey....

DeludedOptimistorjustDave wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:has gats won a game v SH for wales?

yep

when?

mystiroakey wrote:has gats won a game v SH for wales?

Not the top three, if we can't with the players we have we may never do it under Gatland with hes limited game plan. G Henry would have loved to have some of the players we have now.

yeah i am talking about the big 3 off course, i should have been clearer i suppsoe

Didn't they beat aus in gatlands 2nd year in charge?

2008 was the last time- I checked ESPN

Not sure if gats was coaching wales then

mystiroakey wrote:I think they have lost 20 games on the spin V SH or something. How can anyone justify gatland staying is beyond stupid.

Wales are much better than that.

winning 6 nations is fine, but AI's are just as big of a deal

mystirokay

i think you are getting a bit over excited

no doubt questions must be asked and some will call for him to go, but this guy has pedigree

he has taken Wales to 3 Six Nations and 2 Slams in 5 years while also beating Aus with the Lions

Just getting rid of him is not the answer, but his approach and staff must get scrutinized

Scratch wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:I think they have lost 20 games on the spin V SH or something. How can anyone justify gatland staying is beyond stupid.

Wales are much better than that.

winning 6 nations is fine, but AI's are just as big of a deal

mystirokay

i think you are getting a bit over excited

no doubt questions must be asked and some will call for him to go, but this guy has pedigree

he has taken Wales to 3 Six Nations and 2 Slams in 5 years while also beating Aus with the Lions

Just getting rid of him is not the answer, but his approach and staff must get scrutinized

There is nothing to get over exited about for me.

But what i do know for certain is that if a Engish or French coach hasnt beaten a top 3 side in 20 oir so games then they wouldn't be continuing whatever the 6 nations record was

mystiroakey wrote:

Scratch wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:I think they have lost 20 games on the spin V SH or something. How can anyone justify gatland staying is beyond stupid.

Wales are much better than that.

winning 6 nations is fine, but AI's are just as big of a deal

mystirokay

i think you are getting a bit over excited

no doubt questions must be asked and some will call for him to go, but this guy has pedigree

he has taken Wales to 3 Six Nations and 2 Slams in 5 years while also beating Aus with the Lions

Just getting rid of him is not the answer, but his approach and staff must get scrutinized

There is nothing to get over exited about for me.

But what i do know for certain is that if a Engish or French coach hasnt beaten a top 3 side  in 20 oir so games then they wouldn't be continuing whatever the 6 nations record was

True

mystiroakey wrote:

Scratch wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:I think they have lost 20 games on the spin V SH or something. How can anyone justify gatland staying is beyond stupid.

Wales are much better than that.

winning 6 nations is fine, but AI's are just as big of a deal

mystirokay

i think you are getting a bit over excited

no doubt questions must be asked and some will call for him to go, but this guy has pedigree

he has taken Wales to 3 Six Nations and 2 Slams in 5 years while also beating Aus with the Lions

Just getting rid of him is not the answer, but his approach and staff must get scrutinized

There is nothing to get over exited about for me.

But what i do know for certain is that if a Engish or French coach hasnt beaten a top 3 side  in 20 oir so games then they wouldn't be continuing whatever the 6 nations record was

no you don't.

you are speculating.

There are questions to be asked no doubt, but to bin a man with his pedigree is cutting off the nose to spite the face

Scratch wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:

Scratch wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:I think they have lost 20 games on the spin V SH or something. How can anyone justify gatland staying is beyond stupid.

Wales are much better than that.

winning 6 nations is fine, but AI's are just as big of a deal

mystirokay

i think you are getting a bit over excited

no doubt questions must be asked and some will call for him to go, but this guy has pedigree

he has taken Wales to 3 Six Nations and 2 Slams in 5 years while also beating Aus with the Lions

Just getting rid of him is not the answer, but his approach and staff must get scrutinized

There is nothing to get over exited about for me.

But what i do know for certain is that if a Engish or French coach hasnt beaten a top 3 side  in 20 oir so games then they wouldn't be continuing whatever the 6 nations record was

no you don't.

you are speculating.

There are questions to be asked no doubt, but to bin a man with his pedigree is cutting off the nose to spite the face

To not bin him and get fresh ideas is basically capping Welsh potential at 6N level .

Its just embarrassing for the whole of the NH scratch.

Wales have been a quality side and the best 6 nations side in the last 5 or so years, and should be the no.1. You cant just keep a man if he keeps losing to the top 3 SH teams, when all the other 6 nations teams(bar italy) are getting results still.

Its not just bad luck, its not just coincidence.

What do we wait till. 40 games, 60 games?

You may be right Bok, but as i have said with his 6 Ntions performances he will stay. Do i agree with that, yes i do but i also think a radical change in camp needs to occur

new attack and defense coaches

new capt

new line out and scrum coach

The WRU have all the money in Welsh rugby, time to spend it

So you want all new coaches but not a new head coach.

It all stems from the top mate, that is the only way changes will happen

Bullsbok wrote:

Scratch wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:

Scratch wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:I think they have lost 20 games on the spin V SH or something. How can anyone justify gatland staying is beyond stupid.

Wales are much better than that.

winning 6 nations is fine, but AI's are just as big of a deal

mystirokay

i think you are getting a bit over excited

no doubt questions must be asked and some will call for him to go, but this guy has pedigree

he has taken Wales to 3 Six Nations and 2 Slams in 5 years while also beating Aus with the Lions

Just getting rid of him is not the answer, but his approach and staff must get scrutinized

There is nothing to get over exited about for me.

But what i do know for certain is that if a Engish or French coach hasnt beaten a top 3 side  in 20 oir so games then they wouldn't be continuing whatever the 6 nations record was

no you don't.

you are speculating.

There are questions to be asked no doubt, but to bin a man with his pedigree is cutting off the nose to spite the face

To not bin him and get fresh ideas is basically capping Welsh potential at 6N level .

Maybe they're operating above their potential already? Who're you going to replace him with exactly? Robbie Deans? Wayne Smith? A.N Other kiwi?

SL was the best thing that happened to england.

Just get a really passionate welshman who has a brain

 

Bit of a simplistic job description don't you think?

mystiroakey wrote:2008 was the last time- I checked ESPN

Not sure if gats was coaching wales then

 

GloriousEmpire wrote: 

Bit of a simplistic job description don't you think?

A Welshman with a brain..

there arnt many mate

DeludedOptimistorjustDave wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:2008 was the last time- I checked ESPN

Not sure if gats was coaching wales then

 

yep he started in 2007.

but hey no one else remembered !!

mystiroakey wrote:SL was the best thing that happened to england.

Just get a really passionate welshman who has a brain

Glorious…you want the job

You are a Passionate Welshman…..ah, but not qualified on all fronts

The problem with getting rid of Gatland is Howley takes over and, therefore, what changes?

Do posters on here from other nations actually believe Wales have more potential than they are showing? I'm not so sure

The Bachelor wrote:The problem with getting rid of Gatland is Howley takes over and, therefore, what changes?

Do posters on here from other nations actually believe Wales have more potential than they are showing? I'm not so sure

How can they not.

they have closed out against France and England plenty of times recently, who can close out against SH teams.

its not just a few games mate-= its a major mental block

mystiroakey wrote:

The Bachelor wrote:The problem with getting rid of Gatland is Howley takes over and, therefore, what changes?

Do posters on here from other nations actually believe Wales have more potential than they are showing? I'm not so sure

How can they not.

they have closed out against France and England plenty of times recently, who can close out against SH teams.

its not just a few games mate-= its a major mental block

Have to say, after this many defeats on the trot, it's starting to look like choking. To be fair though, England only managed to "close out" against Australia thanks to a couple of dodgy ref calls. As I said, I thought Karma might be on the Aussie's side today. I agree the pass was ok, but I could easily imagine it being called forward by a TMO.

GloriousEmpire wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:

The Bachelor wrote:The problem with getting rid of Gatland is Howley takes over and, therefore, what changes?

Do posters on here from other nations actually believe Wales have more potential than they are showing? I'm not so sure

How can they not.

they have closed out against France and England plenty of times recently, who can close out against SH teams.

its not just a few games mate-= its a major mental block

Have to say, after this many defeats on the trot, it's starting to look like choking.

Even my dog shook his head at that one.

And if it is, you are best placed to call it  

Wales did win under Gatland 21-18 against Aus after winning the GS in 2008, they also got a draw after a great come back with Hook replacing S Jones.

That game made me angry on many levels. Wales again made the mistake of winding their opposition up, they didn't turn up, they made stupid mistakes including kicking the ball away with 5 minutes to go againsta side who had retained possession so well that it beggared belief, the pass was clearly forward. I am astonished that Wales didn't play better. Getting extremely frustrating to watch this side.

England have closed out quite a few more games in that time period though GE and lets not start up the whole reffing thing v ENG,OZ!

get over it bud!

I agree with you Mysti.

9 consecutive times now that Australia have beaten Wales. That is just not on, especially when Wales are not the inferior team on paper.

What is most worrying today from a Welsh perspective is that, for long periods of the game, Wales were hanging on against Australia. Not even their equal, just merely struggling to stay in the game. Why is that, and how can it changed?

It must be so frustrating as well for a Welsh fan - you know Wales will play miles better in the Six Nations next year.

Well played Aus and hard luck Wales. Cooper was amazing as was Folau and I thought the Aussie winger Cummins always looked dangerous too. Some massive hits from both sides - great to watch. I really thought Wales would edge this one so well done Aus for playing so well and spoiling the party.

I think people should consider the very real possibility that this Ozy side has begun to find its mojo?

There was a real bite and muscularity in the Ozy's today - it did cross my mind that maybe they'ed been watching the league final and this had pumped that up a bit - either way my point is.....this Ozy side plus RSA and maybe (though probably not) England are sides on the up?

I am also of the opinion that the AB's are slipping from a very high peak.....some very great AB's are not getting any younger and will have gone come 2015.

kingelderfield wrote:I think people should consider the very real possibility that this Ozy side has begun to find its mojo?

There was a real bite and muscularity in the Ozy's today - it did cross my mind that maybe they'ed been watching the league final and this had pumped that up a bit - either way my point is.....this Ozy side plus RSA and maybe (though probably not) England are sides on the up?

I am also of the opinion that the AB's are slipping from a very high peak.....some very great AB's are not getting any younger and will have gone come 2015.

Can't argue with much of that except I'm sure the ABs will find the personnel and resources to always be up there. They did look beatable though although of course nobody actually beat them - speaks volumes...

Not sure if anybody has seen this but Mike Phillips can be expecting a bit of time off.  Which is a pretty disastrous thing to happen when you are desperately looking for a new club.

http://prem0.hiboox.com/images/4813/diapoe69d6b8908a55571c7583a2dd21a278c.gif

Duty281 wrote:I agree with you Mysti.

9 consecutive times now that Australia have beaten Wales. That is just not on, especially when Wales are not the inferior team on paper.

What is most worrying today from a Welsh perspective is that, for long periods of the game, Wales were hanging on against Australia. Not even their equal, just merely struggling to stay in the game. Why is that, and how can it changed?

It must be so frustrating as well for a Welsh fan - you know Wales will play miles better in the Six Nations next year.

But Wales are the inferior team on paper. They are ranked below Aus and have been for some time.
I think may be some of you don't show Aus enough respect. They are still a top team with some fine players. Wales have also lost a bit more than 9 on the trot against the ABs but you don't give them a hard time when they lose another one.

I thought Folau, Cooper - and especially Hooper - were absolutely world class today and were the difference between the two teams. Great game of rugby. Australian coaching team had done their homework and knew they had to attack the breakdown where Hooper was astonishing, winning turnover and penalties time after time. They also attacked the outside centre very effectively - all 3 tries and nearly tries were in that channel - and when North moved there the hole suddenly closed up. How we miseed Jamie and JD2 today. I am fan of owen Williams but the Aussies attacked his inexperience and it paid off. And wales looked so much better with rhodri williams at scrum half.

Wonderful to only see just a few scrums, just how rugby should be. Well done to all Aussie coaching team who have turned a fairly disorganised and indisciplined team into an effective and tough team. I reckon both teams had worked out each other's lineouts too.

Does ewan mckenzie want a Northern hemisphere coaching job I wonder ?

Artful_Dodger wrote:Not sure if anybody has seen this but Mike Phillips can be expecting a bit of time off.  Which is a pretty disastrous thing to happen when you are desperately looking for a new club.

http://prem0.hiboox.com/images/4813/diapoe69d6b8908a55571c7583a2dd21a278c.gif

Mmm fairly damming I would say.

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:

Artful_Dodger wrote:Not sure if anybody has seen this but Mike Phillips can be expecting a bit of time off.  Which is a pretty disastrous thing to happen when you are desperately looking for a new club.

http://prem0.hiboox.com/images/4813/diapoe69d6b8908a55571c7583a2dd21a278c.gif

Mmm fairly damming I would say.

What a thug. He needs a lengthy ban.

Right in front of old blind Barnes again. No surprises he missed it.

kingelderfield wrote:I think people should consider the very real possibility that this Ozy side has begun to find its mojo?

There was a real bite and muscularity in the Ozy's today - it did cross my mind that maybe they'ed been watching the league final and this had pumped that up a bit - either way my point is.....this Ozy side plus RSA and maybe (though probably not) England are sides on the up?

I am also of the opinion that the AB's are slipping from a very high peak.....some very great AB's are not getting any younger and will have gone come 2015.

I think it's more that the All Blacks make beating Australia look so easy that it creates a false impression of how good they are.

NZ aren't anywhere near their peak yet and just had the best season of any professional team ever. Hard to say they're falling anywhere. Plus a bunch of veterans returning next year and real excitement in some of the depths options next year. It's a matter of how to fit all of the world class options into midfield, wing, full back. There's two or three guys for each position who could all comfortably see off most european sides. Only SA are really a threat at the moment, and even they have been forced to seek a radically altered game plan.

Artful_Dodger wrote:Not sure if anybody has seen this but Mike Phillips can be expecting a bit of time off.  Which is a pretty disastrous thing to happen when you are desperately looking for a new club.

http://prem0.hiboox.com/images/4813/diapoe69d6b8908a55571c7583a2dd21a278c.gif

mike phillips is the biggest douche bag in NH rugby. was instrumental in wales defeat today. the fact that gatland is still picking him first choice, 18 months out from RWC2015 shows how bereft of ideas and creativity he is. shocking.

nganboy wrote:

Duty281 wrote:I agree with you Mysti.

9 consecutive times now that Australia have beaten Wales. That is just not on, especially when Wales are not the inferior team on paper.

What is most worrying today from a Welsh perspective is that, for long periods of the game, Wales were hanging on against Australia. Not even their equal, just merely struggling to stay in the game. Why is that, and how can it changed?

It must be so frustrating as well for a Welsh fan - you know Wales will play miles better in the Six Nations next year.

But Wales are the inferior team on paper. They are ranked below Aus and have been for some time.
I think may be some of you don't show Aus enough respect. They are still a top team with some fine players. Wales have also lost a bit more than 9 on the trot against the ABs but you don't give them a hard time when they lose another one.

the only people not to show Australia enough respect are clearly certain welsh players and managers. what were they thinking? wonder how it feels being forced to eat humble poopie?

I see your 'neutrality' episode has passed and normal service has resumed quoins!

I am sure you know exactly the feeling of eating humble poopie last time we played you was a double helping with custard and a flake

do you actually disagree with either of the things i posted scratch?

biggest douche bag - it's a hard one, i think I have seen bigger douche bags but yes today he was a marginally sized douche, not an XXL just an XL. Instrumental in defeat, no i disagree i thought Aus were just brilliant all over the park…Wales came back as usual and that is the issue i want to address, we can only seem to play catch up.

bereft of ideas - not entirely though we are far too reliant on one or two - crash 12 ball and kicking

Creativity - North

The respect issue - i think teams should be respectful without going over the top, but i wholeheartedly agree Wales chat is @#$%^&* &&*( stupid.

Do your talking on the pitch or not at all.

Scratch wrote:biggest douche bag - it's a  hard one, i think I have seen bigger douche bags but yes today he was a marginally sized douche, not an XXL just an XL. Instrumental in defeat, no i disagree i thought Aus were just brilliant all over the park…Wales came back as usual and that is the issue i want to address, we can only seem to play catch up.

bereft of ideas - not entirely though we are far too reliant on one or two - crash 12 ball and kicking

Creativity - North

The respect issue - i think teams should be respectful without going over the top, but i wholeheartedly agree Wales chat is @#$%^&* &&*( stupid.

Do your talking on the pitch or not at all.

hard to say enough bad thngs about phillips, particularly this year. fired from club, walking sulkily around the pitch in wal v aus match when he wasnt distributing snail-paced ball, stamping on coopers wrist? he wins this year's award for me. gatland get's #2 for throwing his support behind him.

still cant believe you took such exception to my taking exception to wales chat a couple of days ago. anyway, water under the bridge. wales have great potential but not likely to realise it until they develop a 9/10 combo that can provide real options of how to release the backs (that create real uncertainty in the minds of defenders). that was the difference today. every time QC got the ball i sat up, not knowing what was going to happen.

I thought Owen Williams was holding things up. He was ponderous. Didn't take the line with conviction and his distribution was weak. Doesn't seem to have a kicking game at all.
Must really regret this:

http://www.campaignseries.co.uk/sport/wales_rugby/10845073.Wales_have_better_players_than_Israel_Folau__says_Owen_Williams/