Scotland Post AIs

So overall a pretty disappointing series for us, performances weren't great and we missed a great opportunity to beat Australia.  But we were short a number of our best players in Rennie, Hogg, Scott & Visser, so some perspective is perhaps needed considering we were playing two of the top sides in the world.

Personnel wise there were some positive performances;

Dickinson & Low both performed, solid back-ups to Grant & Murray
MacArthur and Gilchrist both showed they are more than capable of playing Test level rugby
Jonny Gray looks a gem of a player and it was a shame we didn't see Swinson again
Denton carried willingly and got his hands on the ball but wasn't as effective as hoped
Beattie showed glimpses of his old self, needs a run with out injuries for Montpellier
Laidlaw was poor against SA but has a good game against Oz, and great to see Cusiter back in blue
Weir had a decent run against Oz, definitely has the cojones to play Test matches but needs to settle
Taylor had a tough one against SA but better against Oz, not a long-term 12 option but maybe 13
Seymour looked lively but struggled to find space, decent back-up though
Maitland is a classy player, looked comfortable at 15 but never really broke free in attack

Negatives;

Line-out seems to have imploded under pressure, not sure who's at fault but GET IT SORTED
Directionless in attack, no-ones seems to know what we're trying to do
Territory, pretty much played both games in our own half for 70 minutes and paid the price
Concentration, we switched off once or twice in defence and got punished ruthlessly
Didn't turnover much ball to play off, odd penalty but not many chances to hit on the break
No tries, rarely got into positions to score and when we did the ball was slow and ideas sparse
Didn't get a chance to see Welsh, Harley, Fusaro, Bennett

So Johnson has now had 6 Test matches to look at a lot of players, it's now time to get our perceived strongest XV out and start building some consistency.  I firmly believe at full-strength we have a XV capable of competing with the best but it needs a chance to develop, not getting mixed about every week.

Get the core of our RWC 2015 in place so when Cotter comes in he doesn't have to start from scratch.

1 - Grant
2 - ? (MacArthur or Ford)
3 - Murray
4 - ? (Swinson, Gray or Gilchrist)
5 - ? (Hamilton or Gray)
6 - Brown
7 - Rennie
8 - ? (Beattie or Denton)
9 - Laidlaw
10 - ? (Weir, Jackson or Heathcote)
11 - Visser
12 - Scott
13 - ? (Dunbar, De Luca, Taylor, Grove or Bennett)
14 - Maitland
15 - Hogg

Hooker and lock needed to get sorted out pronto, hardly surprising our line-out has misfired with the constant turnover in those two positions.

Johnson needs to nail his colours to the mast and stick with a fly-half for more than 2 games at a time, personally I'd like to see Weir get the entire 6 Nations to settle and see how he goes.  

Outside centre is the dilemma position; with Scott, Dunbar and Horne we're well stocked at 12, plus Scott looks like he could develop into a very handy player indeed.  Outside is tougher, had we not had injuries to both Scott & Dunbar I'd have been confident Bennett would have played at somepoint.  But would Scott & Dunbar have been considered 1st choice to begin with or is De Luca perceived to be ahead of Dunbar.

Need to start playing with some confidence, we've always had a decent pack but for the 1st time in over a decade we've got some genuinely exciting backs.  But that doesn't mean we should throw it about aimlessly hoping someone will do something good and break a defence.  Play sensible rugby in the right areas, put pressure on the opposition rather than ourselves and the chances will come, our pack is good enough to create opportunities and the backs are good enough to take them.

I'm confident we're heading in the right direction but Johnson can't waste this 6 Nations, Cotter will only have 14/15 Tests before RWC 2015, so he needs the foundations in now.  Set-piece, defence & effective kicking game.

What's everyone elses assessment of where we are right now?

Bored, that's a first class piece of analysis. My only comment would be that aside from one or two top class players, we still haven't quite got the personnel that can get us playing at a consistently high standard. Can the existing group be improved with some quality coaching is the big question for me, or should we simply accept our lot - 10th feels about right at the moment tbh

From the Hootsmon:

How Scotland Players Rated

Scotland started off their autumn Test series with a win against Japan but lost heavily to South Africa before putting in a respectable performance against Australia despite losing 15 - 21. Here we look at how the each player rated during the campaign.


FULL-BACK AND WINGS

Sean Maitland

Ever-present at full-back in all three Tests and exploited space well against Japan. Confined to desperate defensive duties by a dominant South Africa and began to show his quality with good defence and brighter attacking play against the Wallabies. 7/10


Tommy Seymour

Two tries against Japan underlined his finishing quality. More restrained when South Africa effectively closed him down but flourished again in the close-run defeat by Australia. 7


Sean Lamont

Another autumn ever-present, Scotland ‘s most experienced player scored a deserved try against Japan, put in some try-saving tackles against South Africa and came within inches of crossing the Australian line. 8

Max Evans

Almost scored a try as replacement for final quarter against the Boks, looked hungrier and brought some spark to last quarter against the Wallabies that was reminiscent of the Evans of old. 6

CENTRES

Nick De Luca

Started all three Tests at outside centre and was convincing against Japan, but struggled to make an impact against South Africa. Was solid in defence against the Wallabies without being able to provide go-forward momentum. 7

Matt Scott

The 23-year-old Glasgow Warrior is highly rated by the coaches and he certainly didn’t disappoint with a skilful display of his potential against Japan, before a hand injury late in the game forced him out of the series. 7

Duncan Taylor

The Saracens man had three minutes at full-back against Japan, then a difficult time starting at centre as the Boks battered the home side, but retained the jersey for a useful but unspectacular performance against Australia. 6

HALF BACKS

Ruaridh Jackson

Started at stand-off against Japan and South Africa, bossing the former but permanently on the back foot for the latter as Springbok guts and guile knocked the whole Scotland team off its stride on the day. 6

Duncan Weir

First try as replacement stand-off against Japan, almost created a consolation try against South Africa in the same role with a deft grubber kick, and played 80 minutes despite some wayward kicking and handling against Australia. 7

Greig Laidlaw

A try against Japan put him over the 200 international points mark. Competent in the face of South Africa ’s dominance. Sharp and sparky against Wallabies, with place-kicking consistency. 7

Chris Cusiter

Late run-out against the Boks, and again against Australia to show there is value in his experience. 5

Henry Pyrgos

Late replacement at scrum-half against Japan, his clever kick set up a try for Lamont. 4

FRONT ROW

Ryan Grant

On for 30 minutes against Japan then injured, last 25 against South Africa, and started against Australia. Scrummaged well, but missed crucial tackle when Folau went through him for opener. 6

Euan Murray

The tighthead was more impressive in the loose than the set-piece against Japan, not available for the Boks, and off the bench against Australia for the last half hour to add strength and solidity. 6

Alasdair Dickinson

Try scorer against Japan as a replacement, but found it much harder going when starting against South Africa and Australia when he replaced Grant in the second half. 6

Moray Low

Not on against Japan but started at tighthead against South Africa and held his own to retain the position and repeat the performance against Australia. 6

Geoff Cross

Last ten minutes against Japan, no place for the prop against South Africa or Australia, so no chance to shine. 4

Ross Ford

Started all three Tests at hooker and is ever-present, but has lineout issues and lacked punch. Replaced early against Australia and has work to do to keep MacArthur at bay. 6

Pat MacArthur

Ten minutes and a second cap against Japan, then off the bench in the first half against Australia with coaches watching closely as he ran through the full hooker’s skill set. 6

Scott Lawson

Off the bench for last 25 minutes against South Africa , but didn’t figure for Japan or Australia. 5

LOCKS

Tim Swinson

Superb man-of-the-match performance against Japan but not enough to change pre-autumn plan of leaving him out of South Africa Test, and injured for Australian. 8

Alasdair Kellock

Effective without being outstanding against Japan and not considered in the hugely competitive mix for the 4 and 5 jerseys for the next two games. 5

Richie Gray

Didn’t find the Lions form that makes him such a formidable player and was off the pace against a rampant South African pack, so left out of Australian Test. 5

Jim Hamilton

Struggled with crucial early line-outs against South Africa and odd lapses against the Wallabies, but leader of men in the pack, belligerent, tireless and kept up aggression against Australia, albeit with a few penalties conceded. 7

Grant Gilchrist

Injuries meant the Edinburgh lock went straight into the team for a fourth cap against Australia and he put in a good, hard-tackling and hard-running performance. 7

Jonny Gray

Replaced his older brother for final quarter and first cap against Boks. Came off the bench for his second cap for final 15 minutes against Australia, but made presence felt with promising displays. 6

BACK ROW

Alasdair Strokosch

The Perpignan blindside tackled like a demon against both Japan and Australia but handling errors told and he was replaced before sitting out the Australia game. 6

David Denton

Started all three Tests, carried the ball intelligently with a physical presence and positive attitude that took him over gain line despite regularly starting on back foot. 8

Kelly Brown

Captained the side to victory over Japan, but sat out the Boks match. Restored to the captaincy and openside berth against Australia where the phenomenal workhorse recorded a huge tackle count. 7

Johnny Beattie

Fifteen minutes on the pitch when South Africa were cruising, then the Montpellier back row started against Australia at blindside and made one first-half break and 50 metre surge that had the crowd on its feet and reaffirmed his threat. 7

John Barclay

Last ten minutes against Japan for the Scarlets flanker, but average performance in an admittedly tough game with the Boks cost him a place in the Wallabies Test. 5

Kieran Low

The London Irish 23-year-old was blooded for his first cap against the Wallabies and handed a hospital pass for his first ball carry, but brief signs of promise. 5

At least one off every rating, and two from some

Note to the Hootsman - Matt Scott is not a Glasgow Warrior.

Just shows how lazy that paper is at journalisim!

reallybored wrote:Get the core of our RWC 2015 in place so when Cotter comes in he doesn't have to start from scratch.

1 - Grant
2 - ? (MacArthur or Ford)
3 - Murray
4 - ? (Swinson, Gray or Gilchrist)
5 - ? (Hamilton or Gray)
6 - Brown
7 - Rennie
8 - ? (Beattie or Denton)
9 - Laidlaw
10 - ? (Weir, Jackson or Heathcote)
11 - Visser
12 - Scott
13 - ? (Dunbar, De Luca, Taylor, Grove or Bennett)
14 - Maitland
15 - Hogg

Agree with all of that, although I think Tim Swinson is nailed on to start the 6 Nations at 4 and I suspect SJ will go to Alex Dunbar as his presumptive first choice at 13 (which I'd be happy with).

The real problem position is 10. The Scotsman ratings above are too generous (in particular that ridiculous 8 given to Sean Lamont), and I'd have given both Jackson and Weir a score of 5. Neither looked convincing, and both seem to have flaws in different aspects of the game. Jackson can be indecisive and look rattled whereas Weir is neither, and yet only ever looks comfortable when he's in the pocket kicking the ball. When he's running the game flat he frequently has to resort to contact relying on his "robust" frame, because he doesn't back his distribution skills. He also takes his eye off the ball a couple of times (several knockons against Australia and South Africa when seemingly not under pressure) and the execution on his kicks was hit and miss. Personally I think he deserves another shot (purely down to the number of chances granted to Jackson), and I'd start him in the 6 Nations (club form permitting) with Jackson on the bench (coming off the bench as an impact sub may suit him as the game opens up a little), but neither have grabbed the jersey and there's a big chance for Heathcote here if he can only play some rugby at Bath.

We do have the makings of a good team here, but let's not forget how good England were against Argentina and Australia (compared to us), how strong Wales are, how good Ireland were yesterday, and how well the French can play on their day. All teams have the World Cup firmly in focus and all will improve. With 3 away games in the 6 Nations we have a really tough list of fixtures.

For me, Weir did enough against Australia to take the 10 shirt for the 6N. He's a much steadier hand on the tiller than Jackson, and when Scott, Visser and Hogg are back he'll have far more dangerous strike runners and creative players to bring into the game.

The big change that is needed for the 6N is our approach to the breakdown. The Irish attacked it with quick, controlled brutality yesterday. We need to do the same, and we really need Ross Rennie back. He is so important to the way we play.

reallybored wrote:

Get the core of our RWC 2015 in place so when Cotter comes in he doesn't have to start from scratch.

1 - Grant
2 - ? (MacArthur or Ford)
3 - Murray
4 - ? (Swinson, Gray or Gilchrist)
5 - ? (Hamilton or Gray)
6 - Brown
7 - Rennie
8 - ? (Beattie or Denton)
9 - Laidlaw
10 - ? (Weir, Jackson or Heathcote)
11 - Visser
12 - Scott
13 - ? (Dunbar, De Luca, Taylor, Grove or Bennett)
14 - Maitland
15 - Hogg

We are not looking too bad.  We are stuggling with depth in some areas though.

1. Grant (Dickenson as an able replacement)
2. MacArthur (Ford to the bench? - I  really don;t know what is up with Ford, his head is way down)
3. Murray (Low as an able replacement)
4 & 5 Tough one.  I'd say Gray Snr and Swinson if Gray can re-find his form. If not, then its Swinson and Hamilton. Gray Jnr on the bench and to grow into the team over the years
6. Brown (at six) Captain
7. Rennie (Barclay as an able replacement)
8. Beattie (Denton to bring oomft off the bench - Beattie passes/offloads far better than Denton) Denton also covers 6, Brown would cover 7
9. Laidlaw (Cusiter to bring urgency off the bench)
10. Weir (Jackson on the bench until Heathcote gets regular rugby - Jackson could be brought on to chase a game from 60 mins)
11. Visser (Seymour as an able replacement)
12. Scott (12) our man of the 6n's
13. De Luca (we need him to get visser scoring for some reason - Dunbar/Bennett for the future)
14. Maitland (new campagin Maitland 14 is a 14 (or an 11) not a 15.
15. Hogg (Tonks as cover)

Bench made up of the guys not making the first team (Ford, Denton etc)

It's amazing how quickly Richie Gray's stock has fallen. Two years ago, the best young lock in world rugby, now, at best seen as a bench option by most. Have to agree with you guys, though, I've felt for a while that he isn't quite punching his weight at the moment. The point made about the approach to the breakdown by Captain sensible is spot on - Gray has been one of the chief inspectors at them in recent games and it would be good to see more ferocity in general at those points of collision. Sort that out and your line-out and you have backs that England, for example, would kill for - can it be done in time for the 6N?

What is so frustrating is that under Robinson we had a superb pack that did well at the break down and provided a lot of ball, but we also had crappy backs that didn't know what to do with it.

Under SJ we have really exciting, promising backs, but our forwards suddenly aren't bossing the contact areas. The players in the pack haven't changed hugely, so what's going on?

Captain_Sensible wrote:What is so frustrating is that under Robinson we had a superb pack that did well at the break down and provided a lot of ball, but we also had crappy backs that didn't know what to do with it.

Under SJ we have really exciting, promising backs, but our forwards suddenly aren't bossing the contact areas. The players in the pack haven't changed hugely, so what's going on?

Hence my advocacy in another thread for Robbo to come back as forwards coach!

tigertattie wrote:

Captain_Sensible wrote:What is so frustrating is that under Robinson we had a superb pack that did well at the break down and provided a lot of ball, but we also had crappy backs that didn't know what to do with it.

Under SJ we have really exciting, promising backs, but our forwards suddenly aren't bossing the contact areas. The players in the pack haven't changed hugely, so what's going on?

Hence my advocacy in another thread for Robbo to come back as forwards coach!

It's an... interesting suggestion!

My hope is that Cotter, as a primarily forwards coach himself, will help us solve some of these problems when he arrives.

fingers crossed.

We used to be great at the breakdown. One of the best teams at it.  But now we are just, well, awful!

Part of this may be down to not having a regular 7 in the side to slow the opposition ball at the breakdown to allow the big lads time to get there to compete

tigertattie wrote:

Captain_Sensible wrote:What is so frustrating is that under Robinson we had a superb pack that did well at the break down and provided a lot of ball, but we also had crappy backs that didn't know what to do with it.

Under SJ we have really exciting, promising backs, but our forwards suddenly aren't bossing the contact areas. The players in the pack haven't changed hugely, so what's going on?

Hence my advocacy in another thread for Robbo to come back as forwards coach!

No thanks! I do understand the point being made, but hearing Robinson keeping talking about "repeat sets" etc. during the Australia game took me back to those games where we'd keep the ball for 5 minutes and 20 phases without actually making a yard.

Robinson is a process driven coach. He believes that if you follow his play by numbers coaching manual, you'll succeed. Don't worry about the try line or anything like that, just go through the drills, repeat the sets and everything else follows from there. That means you get good ball retention and nice stats, but it's hellish boring to watch and under Robinson we made scoring tries look pretty painful at times. Not all fixed certainly, but we do look more dangerous under SJ, particularly when Matt Scott is fit and playing at 12.

That was only beacuse the forwards kept the ball for all 20 phases and never gave it to the back as if they did it would be kicked out or dropped.

I do think that Andy Robinson's forwards getting a call from SJ's backs to give them the ball when they want it would be the best of both worlds.

Hopefully Cotter will be able to blend both worlds and get us firing again.

We always hear about Scotland being dark horses. We are like a sleeping giant. We now have the players (1st choice) and all we need is a coach to get these players playing to the best of their ability. Get a game plan that works for us as a team and wake this giant up!

We can dream eh

Captain_Sensible wrote:Note to the Hootsman - Matt Scott is not a Glasgow Warrior.

Also worth questioning how they have Strokosh “tackling like a demon” in the Australia match, whilst also sitting it out…who was he tackling during this time?!

Also I think the ratings are too high.

It's a dreadful article. Full or errors and the ratings are quite ridiculous. Sean Lamont getting 8/10 is farcical. If the marks were for passion and effort he'd get 10/10, but I'd say a 6 would be more reflective of his contributions as an international winger, and I'm not just talking about the one incident against Australia where he demonstrated all the pace of a prop forward.

Also not sure why Pyrgos gets a 4 and Scott Lawson a 5 (given Pyrgos came off the bench against Japan and set up a try). Barclay at 5 looks low (when compared to the other scores) and I wasn't really impressed by Kieran Low at all (yet he gets the same score and Barclay and a higher score than Pyrgos).

Can't help but feel they didn't spend long doing this, as evidenced by the littering of silly errors.

It's clear that the strength in depth isn't there as far as the backs are concerned, obviously there is the likes of Bennett to come through but apart from him there aren't that many new talents apparent. Things would have looked a lot better if we hadn't lost both Tom Evans and Joe Ansbro to injury but I feel we currently really need to cast the net wide to increase the number of good backs available to us. Lineen needs to be looking at both the Southern Hemisphere and the Rugby League options asap.

it would do us a world of good if we could temp just a couple of league boys to join the union set up!

League fellas can make great 12's and 13's which is where we are struggling.

They'd mostly have irritating Northern English accents but I'd learn to live with it!

Joking aside, having Brough at 13 outside Matt Scott (12) would be quite something. Only thing is Brough is 30 (or very near to it) so you'd only get a few years out of him realistically.

Good assessment reallybored.  Most of it has been touched on, but I think we have to learn the following lessons for the 6N

- Be consistent with selection - barring any disasters pick your hooker, 2nd rows, and stand off for every game
- We need a 7 to play, not Kelly Brown
- SJ needs to have the balls to either drop Strokosh or Brown
- Our first choice backs are game breakers, our 2nd choice are plain average

Also worth noting that there has been no McArtuhur bashing on here, when it could be argued the lineout this week was actually worse than last week when Ford was throwing!  

tigertattie wrote:it would do us a world of good if we could temp just a couple of league boys to join the union set up!

League fellas can make great 12's and 13's which is where we are struggling.  

They'd mostly have irritating Northern English accents but I'd learn to live with it!

Joking aside, having Brough at 13 outside Matt Scott (12) would be quite something.  Only thing is Brough is 30 (or very near to it) so you'd only get a few years out of him realistically.

Matt Russell should be the number 1 target following his League World Cup displays, only 20 years old I think and a real attacking talent, would be a really cracking winger (Jason Robinson type). Not sure what position Danny Brough would likely play if he ever converted to Union, 9 or 10 possibly? As you say he's possibly too old to make the switch now but he's also a top player with a fantastic attitude.

I've already said our lineout (Ford or MacArthur) has gone to total pot this year!

Do we have a lineout coach? I have no idea!

What does Scott Murray do these days?

MacKnocked-on wrote:Matt Russell should be the number 1 target following his League World Cup displays, only 20 years old I think and a real attacking talent, would be a really cracking winger (Jason Robinson type). Not sure what position Danny Brough would likely play if he ever converted to Union, 9 or 10 possibly? As you say he's possibly too old to make the switch now but he's also a top player with a fantastic attitude.

Could he play at 9?
I don't think he would slot into 10 (lovely as it would be) as he wont have the kicking game needed I'd think. I could be wrong but League tend to just not kick the ball as much.
I think he'd make a great 12 but we aleady have Matt Scott (12) doing a grand job there. Hence I think a 13 slot would do the job for Brough?
Russell would be a great poach if we could get him

tigertattie wrote:

MacKnocked-on wrote:Matt Russell should be the number 1 target following his League World Cup displays, only 20 years old I think and a real attacking talent, would be a really cracking winger (Jason Robinson type). Not sure what position Danny Brough would likely play if he ever converted to Union, 9 or 10 possibly? As you say he's possibly too old to make the switch now but he's also a top player with a fantastic attitude.

Could he play at 9?
I don't think he would slot into 10 (lovely as it would be) as he wont have the kicking game needed I'd think. I could be wrong but League tend to just not kick the ball as much.
I think he'd make a great 12 but we aleady have Matt Scott (12) doing a grand job there.  Hence I think a 13 slot would do the job for Brough?
Russell would be a great poach if we could get him

You might be right but what kicking he does do is top quality, I'd like to see a return to the grubber kick rather than the constant up and under to the opposition full back. Watching the League World Cup it was obviously a really effective tactic and very difficult to defend. Hopefully Lineen etc did watch Scotland's League efforts.

RDW_Scotland wrote:Also worth noting that there has been no McArtuhur bashing on here, when it could be argued the lineout this week was actually worse than last week when Ford was throwing!  

It's because he plays for Glasgow......

I also thought Gilchrist had a good game, considering the amount of stick he also got from our Weegie brethren beforehand.

He's certainly not first choice, but he has shown he can compete at that level which bodes well for the future - he's still a young chap after all.

Ditto Johnny Gray.

On Brough and Russell, the real key is where they fit into the the Scottish pro sides, as that is the necessary first step. Having the objective of them ultimately playing for Scotland is important, but we'll need to take a close look at these guys in the Rabo first, particularly if we are to use them anywhere other than wing (wing is the easiest position to convert to I always think - not to downplay your importance RDW!).

On that note, Edinburgh could use a decent right winger. I like Fife, but I think his best position will be 13. If we could find a really sharp right winger I think it would make a huge difference to our team.

funnyExiledScot wrote:wing is the easiest position to convert to I always think - not to downplay your importance RDW!

 

funnyExiledScot wrote:On that note, Edinburgh could use a decent right winger.

Edinburgh don't need anymore wingers - we've got Lee Jones, Cuthbert and Nikki Walker.

Said nobody!

RDW_Scotland wrote:I also thought Gilchrist had a good game, considering the amount of stick he also got from our Weegie brethren beforehand.

He's certainly not first choice, but he has shown he can compete at that level which bodes well for the future - he's still a young chap after all.

Gilchrist is hugely frustrating. For such a big bloke he is very mobile and athletic, and his handling skills are very good. When he's in the zone, as he was against Australia, he's also a good ball carrier and plays with aggression. However, his issue is that he isn't naturally aggressive, and he can be infuriatingly timid and passive around the rucks at times in an Edinburgh jersey. Whereas players like Swinson and Hamilton thrive on aggression and making a complete nuisance of themselves at the breakdown, Gilchrist can too often be rather polite. He's not a ruck inspector like Kellock, it's just that he sometimes hits a ruck and you wonder why a player of his size isn't make more of an impact.

Still, he played well I thought. I just want him to treat that performance as a platform from which to step up, rather than down. He does have a huge amount of potential.

RDW_Scotland wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:On that note, Edinburgh could use a decent right winger.

Edinburgh don't need anymore wingers - we've got Lee Jones, Cuthbert and Nikki Walker.

Said nobody!

Ah the sweet legacy of Michael Bradley. How I miss him.....

 

funnyExiledScot wrote:On Brough and Russell, the real key is where they fit into the the Scottish pro sides, as that is the necessary first step. Having the objective of them ultimately playing for Scotland is important, but we'll need to take a close look at these guys in the Rabo first, particularly if we are to use them anywhere other than wing (wing is the easiest position to convert to I always think - not to downplay your importance RDW!).

On that note, Edinburgh could use a decent right winger. I like Fife, but I think his best position will be 13. If we could find a really sharp right winger I think it would make a huge difference to our team.

I'm confident that Russell would easily and quickly prove himself a top quality winger in Union,as I've said before he reminds me a bit of Jason Robinson in his running style and footwork.

I'm not doubting you, merely suggesting that we ought to see these guys play union in the Rabo first. He will need to develop his kicking game, and learn the positional aspects of union which are quite different. He'll also need to learn the breakdown and how to take contact, again, very different to league. Still, if he can run relatively quickly he's already stolen a march on Cuthbert, Walker and Lamont.

Of course FES, you can't just pick em for Scotland without seeing how they do in union at club level

No one gets picked without seeing what they can do! Not even Mark Bennett

On this did anyone see the ludicrous out of 10 ratings in the Hootsman on Sunday yesterday. You would think Scotland had just beaten the ABs in the RWC final ffs. Take 3 or 4 off all of them and the ones above tbh. Totally rubbish, crap newspapers - a bit like our rugby teams tbh !

I'd not say 3 or 4 off (except Lamont)

1 or 2 off each one I think!

It was a bit dire but lets have a think about it!

Convincing win over Japan
Well beaten by a strong Bokke side (ranked 2 in the world)
A within one score loss to an improving Oz team

Its not all that bad.  Take into account the odd selections and the injuries to our arguably best players and I don't think its all doom and gloom.

I'm not saying we will win the 6N's but I think we will at least be competitive!

A platform has been laid for Vern "Saviour of Scotland" Cotter to come in to take us to the world cup!

Agreed - not all doom and gloom by any means, and the good news is that a lot of players didn't perform to their potential (strange to call that good news I know) and we have a bunch of key backs missing.

I think our disappointment is enhanced because we know we can do a whole lot better.

Sorry to go negative again, but have we not been saying all these things for years? Put in a decent performance, showed lots of courage and determination, we’re a young team that’s building into something promising, we should become a force to be reckoned with sometime soon – we’ve been saying these things for years!

When are they actually gonna happen??

RDW_Scotland wrote:Sorry to go negative again, but have we not been saying all these things for years? Put in a decent performance, showed lots of courage and determination, we’re a young team that’s building into something promising, we should become a force to be reckoned with sometime soon – we’ve been saying these things for years!

When are they actually gonna happen??

Well, they certainly don't happen overnight. Our snazzy new backline has only been coming together for the last year or so, and a lot of it was injured for this series. Our forwards are still a work in progress, and as mentioned above, have been hamstrung by some poor or indifferent coaching and selection.

Captain_Sensible wrote:
Our forwards are still a work in progress, a

Grant, Dikcinson, Ford, Murray, Lowe, Cross, Hamilton, Gray Snr, Strokosh, Brown, Barclay, Beattie and Rennie are likely to form the core of our pack up until the world cup, and they are all experienced campaigners! If they aren't going to become top class now when will they?

Yes there is good young talent coming through but the above names aren't gonna change much any time soon.

RDW_Scotland wrote:

Captain_Sensible wrote:
Our forwards are still a work in progress, a

Grant, Dikcinson, Ford, Murray, Lowe, Cross, Hamilton, Gray Snr, Strokosh, Brown, Barclay, Beattie and Rennie are likely to form the core of our pack up until the world cup, and they are all experienced campaigners! If they aren't going to become top class now when will they?

Yes there is good young talent coming through but the above names aren't gonna change much any time soon.

I'm not just talking about the personnel, I'm talking about the tactics as well. Like I said above, our forwards were very good under Robbo, and now they're not. Same players, mostly, but the coaching has got worse.

Also, executing skills under pressure comes from, to a great extent, from confidence. We've been a losing team for so long, the players still don't have much of it. Hamilton has played 50 times for Scotland and won 14, for example.

RDW_Scotland wrote:Sorry to go negative again, but have we not been saying all these things for years? Put in a decent performance, showed lots of courage and determination, we’re a young team that’s building into something promising, we should become a force to be reckoned with sometime soon – we’ve been saying these things for years!

When are they actually gonna happen??

I haven't been saying these things for years at all. When we had Parks at 10 and Morrison at 12 with Lamont and Walker on the wings it was absolutely clear that we weren't close to forming a good international side and had very little potential to do so.

The pack has always had a strong core, and still does, but what is changing is the backline. Obviously set-back these AIs by injuries to key players, but I do believe that with Scott, Dunbar, Visser and Hogg back and fit we are a better side on paper than we have been since 1999. On paper is obviously different from in reality, but those are backs with skill and pace who can create opportunities and score tries.

I'm annoyed by some of the selections in these AIs, and the backline against South Africa was dreadful. We have an issue at fly half, no question, but I do think that issue will be assisted by the return of Scott and Hogg, two players who can come in at first receiver during 2nd and 3rd phases and take some pressure off the player at 10.

funnyExiledScot wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:Sorry to go negative again, but have we not been saying all these things for years? Put in a decent performance, showed lots of courage and determination, we’re a young team that’s building into something promising, we should become a force to be reckoned with sometime soon – we’ve been saying these things for years!

When are they actually gonna happen??

I haven't been saying these things for years at all. When we had Parks at 10 and Morrison at 12 with Lamont and Walker on the wings it was absolutely clear that we weren't close to forming a good international side and had very little potential to do so.

The pack has always had a strong core, and still does, but what is changing is the backline. Obviously set-back these AIs by injuries to key players, but I do believe that with Scott, Dunbar, Visser and Hogg back and fit we are a better side on paper than we have been since 1999. On paper is obviously different from in reality, but those are backs with skill and pace who can create opportunities and score tries.

I'm annoyed by some of the selections in these AIs, and the backline against South Africa was dreadful. We have an issue at fly half, no question, but I do think that issue will be assisted by the return of Scott and Hogg, two players who can come in at first receiver during 2nd and 3rd phases and take some pressure off the player at 10.

Agreed on all counts. Visser probably won't be fit for the 6N, but there's no reason to assume the rest of them won't.

Laidlaw, Weir, Seymour, Scott, Dunbar, Maitland, Hogg is a nice backline, with Cusiter, Jackson and A N Other on the bench.

Re: AN Other - I actually thought Max Evans brought something off the bench in the last couple of games. Quite a handy impact sub with his quick feet and accelaration. The other possible is Mark Bennett (you could shift Dunbar onto the wing), who again brings good pace and quick feet off the bench.

funnyExiledScot wrote:It's a dreadful article. Full or errors and the ratings are quite ridiculous. Sean Lamont getting 8/10 is farcical. If the marks were for passion and effort he'd get 10/10, but I'd say a 6 would be more reflective of his contributions as an international winger, and I'm not just talking about the one incident against Australia where he demonstrated all the pace of a prop forward.

Also not sure why Pyrgos gets a 4 and Scott Lawson a 5 (given Pyrgos came off the bench against Japan and set up a try). Barclay at 5 looks low (when compared to the other scores) and I wasn't really impressed by Kieran Low at all (yet he gets the same score and Barclay and a higher score than Pyrgos).

Can't help but feel they didn't spend long doing this, as evidenced by the littering of silly errors.

Agree the article was poor, however you are well off the mark with Lamont, effort certainly 10/10, but the pish poor distribution he has received (including Matty Scotts who is not as world class as my fellow brethren are making out who this season for club or country, he has being "good" at best).

I am forever the optimist after the AIs normally and after the Summer tour I thought that maybe we would have a fairly balanced team, but this Autumn has seen me wanting a refund on the damn tickets I bought.

Too many players have been treading water, Scott hasn't raised the bar this season, Grant, Laidlaw, Denton have been poor, Jackson his usually inconsistent self, Weir is not good enough as is Lawson, Maitland seems to have lost a yard of pace. Why are we talking about Rennie when he has played 40 mins very well, and the rest of the time has been less than average for us then got injured again. Gilchrist did ok, Gray Jnr like his bro has exploded onto the scene but the jury is still out there.

We are writing off Schlong but he has been one of the rare breeds this AIs series "a player who is willing to give 100% of every minute he is on the pitch"

I honestly fear for our central midfield when they face Roberts & Davies in the 6Ns, ditto with any combo of half backs

I think now that SJ has effectively had six matches to blood new players (three on the summer tour plus the three AIs), he needs to focus on crafting a consistent 1st XV during next year's 6N. We need to start getting combinations up and running in time for the RWC. Perhaps there is space for a few new players to be brought in, guys like Bennett and Fusaro, but we should be focusing on establishing a solid core of players that are familiar with each other and the game plan we want to use.

The big areas of dispute when it comes to selection are, for me -

Tighthead - Murray or Low?
Second row - who to partner Swinson?
The backrow - we'd all like to see Brown, Beattie/Denton, Barclay/Rennie/Fusaro, but will SJ feel the same way. If Rennie is fit, I think he'll play.
Flyhalf - can Weir establish himself as Glasgow's first choice No 10 and secure his hold on the Scotland jersey?
Outside centre - Dunbar or NDL? Or Bennett? My suspicion is that SJ prefers Dunbar, which is fine by me.

As for the gameplan, Scotland should be looking to replicate what Glasgow do at their best - a brutal, energetic defensive game, unquestioning commitment at the breakdown with or without the ball, and a willingness to play what is in front of them at all times. Trust the players to decide when to kick and when to run it, rather than sending them out with preset formulas.

I'm sure I read in the Scotsman that 20 forwards got gametime this AIs. That's a lot of chopping and changing!

flyhalffactory wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:It's a dreadful article. Full or errors and the ratings are quite ridiculous. Sean Lamont getting 8/10 is farcical. If the marks were for passion and effort he'd get 10/10, but I'd say a 6 would be more reflective of his contributions as an international winger, and I'm not just talking about the one incident against Australia where he demonstrated all the pace of a prop forward.

Also not sure why Pyrgos gets a 4 and Scott Lawson a 5 (given Pyrgos came off the bench against Japan and set up a try). Barclay at 5 looks low (when compared to the other scores) and I wasn't really impressed by Kieran Low at all (yet he gets the same score and Barclay and a higher score than Pyrgos).

Can't help but feel they didn't spend long doing this, as evidenced by the littering of silly errors.

Agree the article was poor, however you are well off the mark with Lamont, effort certainly 10/10, but the pish poor distribution he has received (including Matty Scotts who is not as world class as my fellow brethren are making out who this season for club or country, he has being "good" at best).

I am forever the optimist after the AIs normally and after the Summer tour I thought that maybe we would have a fairly balanced team, but this Autumn has seen me wanting a refund on the damn tickets I bought.

Too many players have been treading water, Scott hasn't raised the bar this season, Grant, Laidlaw, Denton have been poor, Jackson his usually inconsistent self, Weir is not good enough as is Lawson, Maitland seems to have lost a yard of pace. Why are we talking about Rennie when he has played 40 mins very well, and the rest of the time has been less than average for us then got injured again. Gilchrist did ok, Gray Jnr like his bro has exploded onto the scene but the jury is still out there.

We are writing off Schlong but he has been one of the rare breeds this AIs series "a player who is willing to give 100% of every minute he is on the pitch"

I honestly fear for our central midfield when they face Roberts & Davies in the 6Ns, ditto with any combo of half backs

Oh dear Lord, cheer up, man.

Why indeed are we talking about Rennie when he got an honourable mention in the IRB player of the year awards last year?

Matt Scott has been Embra's best player by a mile this season. I'm impressed he's managed to hold onto his form when he's surrounded by such garbage. He also did fine against the Welsh midfield at Murrayfield last year, and if you'd been paying attention, Davies and perhaps Roberts are injured for the 6N.

Duncan Weir is 22 - where you at the top of your profession at that age?

Gray Jnr is 19 - of course the jury is still out, what were you expecting? A fully-formed Martin Johnson replica to come bursting out of a teenager?

Yes, we didn't do brilliant this autumn but enough of the doom and gloom - especially when it is barely accurate in places.

I'm gonna go for us finishing 4th in the 6N's this time round!

Unless we significantly improve it's gonna be a tough 6N, considering we've only got England and France at home.

And let's face it, we've not exactly done well away from home against Italy recently...

On the topic of the 6N, Tommasso Allan has now played more times for Italy than he has played professional rugby for his club.