Assessing George Groves' talent

Now that the hype and post-fight hysteria has died down, and now that we have a fighter of note to help us measure Groves' talent againt, how good is he?
 
My thoughts:
 
He has punch power on the world level, obviously. Anybody that can repeatedly hurt Froch like that can bang.
He has good speed, footwork and is technically very good.
Have always thought he had a great jab, should have leant on it more in this fight rather than loading up on punches.
 
Weaknesses:
 
I do think he will have to work on his stamina. He was fading in the Froch fight. This may be due to inexperience on the world stage, but  I saw him gassing or beginning to show signs of it from round 7. I am not basing this solely on the Froch fight either. I felt v Degale he faded a bit.
 
I do not like the way he goes toe to toe when under assault. Round 6 was his, but even though he gave more than he took, it affected him more. Also, I don't like the way he sometimes sticks his hands up when under assault. Fighters with better hand speed and punch selection will get on top of him if he doesn't resolve this. He looked excellent when using upper body movement or foot speed to avoid punches.
 
All in all I think he comfortably beats Stieglitz, hammers Chavez Jr. and would likely give Kessler an L at this time, too.  
 
He loses to Ward at this point, as does everybody, and I think Bika is a nightmare fight for him still, because Bika is rough and tough and still has gas in the tank after all these years.
 
Overall, I would say he looks like a fine talent.

Best fighter to come out of the UK since Joe Calzaghe I reckon

Steffan wrote:Best fighter to come out of the UK since Joe Calzaghe I reckon

Even better then Cleverly?  

I was watching ringside earlier today, I don't remember seeing Froch look so beaten up after a fight. His power was there for all to see, he just needs to remember to stick to the game plan.

Thankfully it appears he has a very level head and knows he made mistakes.

Soldier_Of_Fortune wrote:

Steffan wrote:Best fighter to come out of the UK since Joe Calzaghe I reckon

Even better then Cleverly?  

Nah Cleverly is in the Carl Froch and David Haye category. Ok against average opponents but when taking on a proven world class fighter gets totally beaten

Also, I don't like the way he sometimes sticks his hands up when under assault.

Agreed what kind of world class fighter adopts a tight high guard to block or deflect punches coming from an opponent....Groves, you're a fool!!!!!!!!!!!

Steffan wrote:

Soldier_Of_Fortune wrote:

Steffan wrote:Best fighter to come out of the UK since Joe Calzaghe I reckon

Even better then Cleverly?  

Nah Cleverly is in the Carl Froch and David Haye category. Ok against average opponents but when taking on a proven world class fighter gets totally beaten

FINALLY YOU HAVE SEEN THE LIGHT!!!!!!!   

Groves totally outclassed Froch (not hard I know but still good for a rookie)

He looks to have stamina problems though. That needs to be sorted. He needs to get some more road running milage in. Defense can look sloppy at times but his chin looks to be a lot better now

Steffan wrote:Groves totally outclassed Froch (not hard I know but still good for a rookie)

He looks to have stamina problems though. That needs to be sorted. He needs to get some more road running milage in. Defense can look sloppy at times but his chin looks to be a lot better now

I was wondering about his chin. He stood up for 9 rounds and never went down, but I don't think it's a stellar chin. I think he has the talent to protect it though, and as long as someone isn't unloading on him he can take the odd heavy shot.

Looks to be a fighter who has improved,he can hit that's for sure and has excellent boxing skills,thought his jab was working well early in the fight,stamina I'm not sureabout,the fight never slowed from start to finish,sdo it may be that he just needs to pace himself better.

Those who write Froch off in a rematch do so at their peril,McCracken will study and study the first fight and make sure Froch's guard is a lot tighter and that he avoids those Groves right hands, and Froch will be a lot less complacent 2nd time round.

Froch took Groves best shot, does Groves take Frochs best if it lands clean,we may well find out.

Readan article with Paddy Fitzgerald who claimed he had a gameplan that would enable Groves to KO froch inside four rounds.

Had he said that a week ago, people would be changing their pee-soaked underwear but given the way Groves performed and the way Froch appears to have regressed, you wouldn't think it so far-fetched today.

DAVE667 wrote:Readan article with Paddy Fitzgerald who claimed he had a gameplan that would enable Groves to KO froch inside four rounds.

Had he said that a week ago, people would be changing their pee-soaked underwear but given the way Groves performed and the way Froch appears to have regressed, you wouldn't think it so far-fetched today.

On the other hand,did Froch take Groves too lightly,he kept saying Groves was out of his league.

Nico the gman wrote:

DAVE667 wrote:Readan article with Paddy Fitzgerald who claimed he had a gameplan that would enable Groves to KO froch inside four rounds.

Had he said that a week ago, people would be changing their pee-soaked underwear but given the way Groves performed and the way Froch appears to have regressed, you wouldn't think it so far-fetched today.

On the other hand,did Froch take Groves too lightly,he kept saying Groves was out of his league.

Froch was forced to take the fight lest he be stripped of his IBF belt. He and Eddie then started talking up the fight as legit and then seemed to think that was probably taking the p!55 so Froch went back to slating Groves.

There's an element of Froch taking Groves too lightly but then that's one of the many excuses dished out by boxers to justify poor performances...Froch has recently come out and said that he didn't want to make a big deal of it but he was actually injured going into the fight....another excuse for a bad performance.

Against Kessler it was the volcanic ash cloud, not that Kessler was the better man

Against Ward it was jet lag (get there earlier then you dippy ****) and Ward had home advantage, not that Ward was the better man

Against Groves, he was injured but fought through it cos he's a Warrior, not that Groves was the better man.

Anyone else see a pattern emerging?

Lets not forget that Joe Calzaghe retired to avoid fighting Froch as Froch is the better man

DAVE667 wrote:

Nico the gman wrote:

DAVE667 wrote:Readan article with Paddy Fitzgerald who claimed he had a gameplan that would enable Groves to KO froch inside four rounds.

Had he said that a week ago, people would be changing their pee-soaked underwear but given the way Groves performed and the way Froch appears to have regressed, you wouldn't think it so far-fetched today.

On the other hand,did Froch take Groves too lightly,he kept saying Groves was out of his league.

Froch was forced to take the fight lest he be stripped of his IBF belt. He and Eddie then started talking up the fight as legit and then seemed to think that was probably taking the p!55 so Froch went back to slating Groves.

There's an element of Froch taking Groves too lightly but then that's one of the many excuses dished out by boxers to justify poor performances...Froch has recently come out and said that he didn't want to make a big deal of it but he was actually injured going into the fight....another excuse for a bad performance.

Against Kessler it was the volcanic ash cloud, not that Kessler was the better man

Against Ward it was jet lag (get there earlier then you dippy ****) and Ward had home advantage, not that Ward was the better man

Against Groves, he was injured but fought through it cos he's a Warrior, not that Groves was the better man.

Anyone else see a pattern emerging?

agree but most boxers make excuses or move up in weight after defeats/poor performances. It's part of the sport.

So Froch didn't say Groves was out of his league and was taking a huge step up in class.
A fighter says that its got all the hallmarks of complacency.

But you don't get to win and keep your titles with the less than first rate boxing ability Froch has without applying yourself diligently. Seems a tad convenient that Froch has gone from being the bloke who leaves nothing to chance to some slack ar5ed loafer who couldn't be bothered.

"Couldn't have had a better training camp" or "My weight's perfect" or "I'm in peak condition" All guff spouted by Froch in the run up to the fight and make no mistake he needed every bit of that conditioning to last as long as he did.

Nope, Groves is decent fighter and one smart enough to exploits Froch's flaws/weaknesses

If Bernard Hopkins had been British, some of you on here would have had him retired after the Jermaine Taylor defeat.

One bad performance doesn't make a bad fighter, anybody who thinks Froch isn't capable of performing better in a rematch is deluding themselves.

Nico the gman wrote:If Bernard Hopkins had been British, some of you on here would have had him retired after the Jermaine Taylor defeat.

One bad performance doesn't make a bad fighter, anybody who thinks Froch isn't capable of performing better in a rematch is deluding themselves.

Agreed. Froch for all thats said against him, lives the life outside the ring, and does not "gas" despite some people thinking he was doing that last saturday.

His main problem is that he ships too many shots - that will shorten his career. Still believe he could win a rematch , but again so could GG. All depends on who makes it to the races, who is mentally stronger on the night. Remeber the state of Groves's face the next day. He can say all he likes to the cameras, he definately won't go into a rematch thinking "i'm going to walk this - KO him in 6" etc etc, he will prepare even harder.

Groves is just one of those fighters who marks up badly. James Degale had him looking a similar state, Froch came out of this fight with this lips swollen, his eyes bust and a huge lump on his forehead. When was the last time you saw that?

We all know what's gonna happen anyway, Froch will move and and fight Chavez JR or Ward in Vegas. I doubt he goes anywhere near Groves, he probably has one, maybe two fights left and he'll want the chance to fight in Vegas I'm sure.

Beat Chavez then hopefully a Groves rematch.

For me he should rematch Ward then retire. Nothing left to prove in Boxing anymore. Has beaten everyone in front of him apart from two, one of which was avenged.

Kessler, Taylor, Dirrell, Abraham, Pascal, Mack, Bute.....some resume to be proud of for a 4 time world champ.

I would rather see him retire on a fight he might possibly win, not a fight he has no chance of winning.

Nico the gman wrote:If Bernard Hopkins had been British, some of you on here would have had him retired after the Jermaine Taylor defeat.

One bad performance doesn't make a bad fighter, anybody who thinks Froch isn't capable of performing better in a rematch is deluding themselves.

Hopkins is a master spoiler with every trick in the book.........

Froch isn't the same kind of fighter.........Groves hit him with every right he threw.

Admittidely Froch and Hopkins styles are chalk and cheese, but reading some of the comments on here you would think Froch had just taken a career ending beating,Froch was behind in the fight,but was still right in the fight and well on top in the 9th as well as winning the 8th.

In a rematch if McCracken has anything about him as a trainer, he will study the first fight and make the adjustments that ensure Froch doesn't get hit with as many right hands.Its what good trainers do.  

Some of the comments posted on here are about the dislike of a fighter, and last weeks fight is of secondary importance to them.

Don't need to name names they stand out like a sore thumb.

mobilemaster8 wrote:For me he should rematch Ward then retire. Nothing left to prove in Boxing anymore. Has beaten everyone in front of him apart from two, one of which was avenged.

Kessler, Taylor, Dirrell, Abraham, Pascal, Mack, Bute.....some resume to be proud of for a 4 time world champ.

Digging deeper into his resume does show he has been lucky/fortunate:

Pascal- defeated a relatively young Pascal who in my opinion is not a top level fighter. Top 15 SMW at best.

Taylor - should of lost the fight, but showed great courage to close the fight in the 12th round. However, Taylor had shown signs of regression before that fight.

Dirrell- For me he lost that fight.

Kessler- W1 L1.

Abraham- thoroughly outclassed AA. However, his best weight was obviously at 160lbs which he dropped back down to after an unsuccessful super six tournament.

Ward- Thoroughly outboxed.

Bute- an overrated and extremely protected fighter who was shown/ proved to have no chin.

Mack- A no name.

Groves- again outboxed and won in controversial fashion.

You can do that with everyone if you wish, it's a very one eyed view if things giving no credit at all.

All Time Great wrote:

mobilemaster8 wrote:For me he should rematch Ward then retire. Nothing left to prove in Boxing anymore. Has beaten everyone in front of him apart from two, one of which was avenged.

Kessler, Taylor, Dirrell, Abraham, Pascal, Mack, Bute.....some resume to be proud of for a 4 time world champ.

Digging deeper into his resume does show he has been lucky/fortunate:

Pascal- defeated a relatively young Pascal who in my opinion is not a top level fighter. Top 15 SMW at best.

Taylor - should of lost the fight, but showed great courage to close the fight in the 12th round. However, Taylor had shown signs of regression before that fight.

Dirrell- For me he lost that fight.

Kessler- W1 L1.

Abraham- thoroughly outclassed AA. However, his best weight was obviously at 160lbs which he dropped back down to after an unsuccessful super six tournament.

Ward- Thoroughly outboxed.

Bute- an overrated and extremely protected fighter who was shown/ proved to have no chin.

Mack- A no name.

Groves- again outboxed and won in controversial fashion.

So according to you every top class win Froch has achieved in he's career has just been luck on the night,OK fella I think we'll leave it at that, some guy's must just be born lucky.

You've only got to look at Froch's other half to see that, fella!

So Rachel, exactly what is it about multi millionaire carl froch you find attractive. His dazzling good looks? That charming self effacing personality?

I said before the fight and I thought it was emphasised (though some disagreed) in it. I think groves reaction to getting tagged is to brawl. Given this is largely instinct, I don't think it can be coached out. Like others, I'm not convinced by his stamina either.

That all sounds a bit negative, I like him as a fighter, good skills, has shown he can fight back foot and front foot, just think the above pointers are concerns for him at the highest level.

Depends who he's fighting Milky, against lesser punchers who don't have the chin of Froch it may not be an issue. The more stylistic fighters like Dirrell I can see him beating but heavy punchers like Stevenson or Kovalev he may struggle.

Exactly hammer. Most fighters are steered in the direction of opposition that they match up well with, where possible. Iron chinned bangers may not be groves thing. He's certainly shown he was capable of sticking rigidly to a game plan against de gale... When he was never really buzzed.

I actually admire guys whose instinct is to fight back when hurt, it's just not generally sensible, as by definition you're the vulnerable one at that time.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Depends who he's fighting Milky, against lesser punchers who don't have the chin of Froch it may not be an issue. The more stylistic fighters like Dirrell I can see him beating but heavy punchers like Stevenson or Kovalev he may struggle.

What have two LH got to do with Groves? Chances are that George will never venture up to LH as he's just too small.

I'd say Groves is a pretty big 168lber, if and when he loses to Ward he won't have many options other than moving up.

Milky, Groves showed he has the ability to outbox a brawler like Froch but as you said his natural instincts let him down.

Whereas I think Groves is quite short for a SM. I genuinely don't think he's big enough to compete EFFECTIVELY with the better fighters in the division.

I'm sure he'd be there or there abouts but I thibnks he's be hampered by his physical limitations