HC, Pool 2, Round 4: Glasgow Warriors v Cardiff Blues

First topic message reminder :

Glasgow Warriorsv Cardiff Blues
 
Friday 13 December 2013, KO 20:00
Scotstoun Stadium, Glasgow
 
Live on Sky Sports
 
Referee Pascal "I am not George Clancy" Gauzere (France)
Touch Judge 1 Patrick Pechambert (France)
Touch Judge 2 Jean-Luc Rebollal (France)
Fourth Official Philippe Bonhoure (France)
TMO Philippe Bonhoure (France)

Citing Commissioner John Cole (Ireland)
 
A. HC Form (last 4 games):
 
1. Warriors
 
6/12/13
Blues 29 - 20 Glasgow

20/10/13
Glasgow 20 - 16 Chiefs
 
13/10/13
Toulon 51 - 28 Glasgow
 
19/1/13
Glasgow 27 - 20 Saints
 
2. Blues

6/12/13
Blues 29 - 20 Glasgow
 
19/10/13
Blues 19 - 15 Toulon
 
13/10/13
Chiefs 44 - 29 Blues
 
19/1/13
Blues 26 - 14 Sharks

B. Table

	Team	P	W	D	L	F	A	BP	PTS
1	Toulon	3	2	0	1	80	56	2	10
2	Cardiff Blues	3	2	0	1	77	79	1	9
3	Exeter	3	1	0	2	69	63	3	7
4	Glasgow	3	1	0	2	68	96	1	5

C. Teams
 
1. Warriors

15 Hogg
14 Maitland
13 McGuigan
12 Dunbar
11 Seymour
10 Jackson
09 Matawalu

01 Grant
02 MacArthur
03 Welsh
04 Nakarawa
05 Kellock
06 Harley
07 Holmes
08 Wilson

16 Hall
17 Big Jerry
18 Kalman
19 Strauss
20 Fusaro
21 Cusiter
22 Weir
23 DTH

2. Blues
 
15 Leigh Halfpenny, 14 Alex Cuthbert, 13 Richard Smith, 12 Rhys Patchell, 11 Harry Robinson, 10 Gareth Davies, 9 Lloyd Williams; 1 Sam Hobbs (c), 2 Kristian Dacey, 3 Taufa'ao Filise, 4 Chris Dicomidis, 5 Filo Paulo, 6 Macauley Cook, 7 Rory Watts-Jones, 8 Robin Copeland.
 
16 Marc Breeze, 17 Thomas Davies, 18 Benoit Bourrust, 19 James Down, 20 Ellis Jenkins, 21 Andries Pretorius, 22 Lewis Jones, 23 Dan Fish

 
D. Parliamo Glasgow:
 
Alphabetty Spaghetti - D.T.H. van der Merwe, wing
Angel - Gabriel Ascarate, centre
Angela - Jon Welsh, prop
Barry - Byron McGuigan, wing
Big Boab - (see Ginger Tackle Monster, the)
Big Mike - (see Coo, the)
Big Naka - Leone Nakarawa, lock/loosie
Bluto - Josh Strauss, loosie/no.8
Centre, the - (see Lesser Messiah, the)
Coo, the - Michael Cusack, prop
Cooseetah - (see Cus)
Cus - Chris Cusiter, scrum half
DTH - (see Alphabetty Spaghetti)
Flippy - (see Toonie)
Fozzy - Christopher Fusaro, loosie
Furra Lineeeee - Peter Horne, centre
Ginger Tackle Monster, the - Rob Harley, loosie
Guns - Tim Swinson, lock
Henners - Henry Pyrgos, scrum half
Hoggy - Stuart Hogg, full back/wing/centre
Ickle Jon - Jonny Gray, lock
Jedi - James Eddie, loosie
Lesser Messiah, the - Richie Vernon, loosie/no.8
Mark of Nazareth - (see Messiah, the)
Meatball, the - Duncan Weir, fly half
Messiah, the/ - Mark Bennett, centre
Niko - Nikola Matawalu, scrum half
Niko's Mate - Jerry Yanuyanutawa, prop
No Maits - Sean Maitland, wing
Rhubarb - Ruaridh Jackson, fly half
Ruck Inspector, the - Alastair Kellock, lock
Schlong - Sean Lamont, centre/wing
Sherlock - Tyrone Holmes, loosie
Shrek - Gordon Reid, prop
Toonie - Gregor Peter John Townsend MBE, head coach
Wee P - Pat MacArthur, hooker
Weegie from Fiji, the - (see Niko)

Blooooooooooooooooos!

Should that not be PIIIIIIIIIIIINNKKKS ?

21st Century Schizoid Man wrote:Should that not be PIIIIIIIIIIIINNKKKS ?

It shouldn't be, but it is, for now.....

Well done Cardiff. If I read another warriors poster predicting a win but worse a bonus point win on this site then I am leaving. Jeez this is a professional game and all of us are as passionate about our teams as everyone else. Two seasons ago we could hardly win a pillow fight now we just need to turn up! Where has the passion and the devil gone- we need our hunger back. Toonie take note- you have a great bunch of players but you need to motivate and most of all pick the right guys for the job and this season I think you have made an arse of it. Fusaro- I rest my case.

Big congratulations to Cardiff - the better team on the night.

It's been said before (you know, maybe once or twice...), but Leigh Halfpenny is one hell of a player. Cuthbert was as impressive as he always is (and unlucky not to get his try). More than anything else, the young Cardiff players really impressed me - no one (especially not me) gave them much of a shot against a very strong (on paper) Glasgow side.

Clancy played his part, but Glasgow didn't lose because of an Irishman with questionable parentage, they lost because thirteen Scots, a Canadian and a Fijian couldn't keep their heads and play patient rugby.

I might have kicked a traffic cone by George Square on my way home, so I'd also like to apologise to the good people of Glasgow City Council.

Irn bru - think it pitched up on Wellingtons head. Again!

Do we ever need a dose of Sean Lineen's no nonsense rugby right now !

Sorry bru- bit obvious just had too much vino anti depresso!

IanBru wrote:Big congratulations to Cardiff - the better team on the night.

It's been said before (you know, maybe once or twice...), but Leigh Halfpenny is one hell of a player. Cuthbert was as impressive as he always is (and unlucky not to get his try). More than anything else, the young Cardiff players really impressed me - no one (especially not me) gave them much of a shot against a very strong (on paper) Glasgow side.

Clancy played his part, but Glasgow didn't lose because of an Irishman with questionable parentage, they lost because thirteen Scots, a Canadian and a Fijian couldn't keep their heads and play patient rugby.

I might have kicked a traffic cone by George Square on my way home, so I'd also like to apologise to the good people of Glasgow City Council.

Ian

You are being too nice to Clancy - and I am saying this as an Edinburgh fan - he cost Glasgow the game.
It is just not tenable that Cardiff gave away no pens until the 51st minute.
He was culpable at almost every situation that cost Glasgow points - for example have a look at the Weegie free kick/penalty taken quickly near the end that led to the Blues try - Cardiff were never 5 yards but he allowed the turnover.

malky1963 wrote:

IanBru wrote:Big congratulations to Cardiff - the better team on the night.

It's been said before (you know, maybe once or twice...), but Leigh Halfpenny is one hell of a player. Cuthbert was as impressive as he always is (and unlucky not to get his try). More than anything else, the young Cardiff players really impressed me - no one (especially not me) gave them much of a shot against a very strong (on paper) Glasgow side.

Clancy played his part, but Glasgow didn't lose because of an Irishman with questionable parentage, they lost because thirteen Scots, a Canadian and a Fijian couldn't keep their heads and play patient rugby.

I might have kicked a traffic cone by George Square on my way home, so I'd also like to apologise to the good people of Glasgow City Council.

Ian

You are being too nice to Clancy - and I am saying this as an Edinburgh fan - he cost Glasgow the game.
It is just not tenable that Cardiff gave away no pens until the 51st minute.
He was culpable at almost every situation that cost Glasgow points - for example have a look at the Weegie free kick/penalty taken quickly near the end that led to the Blues try - Cardiff were never 5 yards but he allowed the turnover.

To all you regional types, Cardiff won tonight.

I thought it was a very good open gam played at 100mph so there will be some mistakes, I feel knackered just watching the game. Yes Glasgow made more mistakes but full marks to them they never gave up. Nice to see some Ponty players getting into the team and playing well and lasting the pace. The Blues hooker impressed me and Hewitt had a great defensive game.

I think Glasgow should keep the game tighter in the return game with the Blues danerous runners finding space.

glamorganalun wrote:I thought it was a very good open gam played at 100mph  so there will be some mistakes, I feel knackered just watching the game. Yes Glasgow made more mistakes but full marks to them they never gave up. Nice to see some Ponty players getting into the team and playing well and lasting the pace. The Blues hooker impressed me and Hewitt had a great defensive game.

I think Glasgow should keep the game tighter in the return game with the Blues danerous runners finding space.

Aye well played Cardiff.

As a neutral Clancy spoiled the game for me. He was OK for about 40% of the time but the remainder was 20% bad for Blues and 40% bad for Warriors. How is this guy on the elite panel?

No surprise to see people whinge about Clownshoes Clancy. Have to see I saw a bit of the highlights just now and Patchell was good, that dummy near the end was very Quade Cooper! He could solve our issues for the Wales 10 jersey in due time .

Cardiff Dave wrote:Good show from Cardiff so far. Wish I was there. Who needs expensive international players?

Your team needs them obvs, to prevent thrashing like the one you got from Munster... 20 players out for that game right?

Great win, considering Blues injury list. The first team when they're together is really good. Still don't think PD should keep his job though, awful coach and personnel manager.

Even more depressed this morning that I'd' stayed up until 1.30am here to watch that pile of old tosh. Blues have absolutely got to be congratulated - a young, hungry side with a point to make. Their scramble defence was excellent and most of the time all they had to do was give Glasgow the ball and watch them beat themselves.

As a Glasgow fan, this is mystifying. We have almost exactly the same team that steamrollered everyone in the league (Leinster excepted) last year. So why the hell do we have so little continuity or control? A team of professionals like that have no excuse for going through 3 phases and then coughing up the ball.

Towsend needs to look hard at his team, starting with the forwards. Then he needs to tell everyone (not just Niko by any means) to calm the hell down and stop forcing things.

Really am at a loss. What I do know though is that every game they don't play shows how crucial Swinson and Horne are.

Watched it from a complete neutrals POV last nigh ue to fact that as a valley boy born n bred we all hate the city slickers  and Clancy really does seem out of his depth for lots of the game.

I am sure refs still get assessed right? If so how come this guy still gets to ref at the top level.

That aside great result and performance by the Blues and whilst his defence is suspect Cuthbert knows how to score and is not afraid to back himself and his pace rather than just try to use his bulk.

My therapist has told me that it's bad for me to start any discussions about Clancy.
 
Suffice to say that there were a number of decisions last night that I just didn't understand.
 
And Clancy and Kellocks' feelings towards each other are well known, something which I would wager tends not to work in our favour.
 
Damn. I've just snapped my pencil.

Well we have known Clownshoes Clancy is a complete moron for years and hates Glasgow with a passion. It remains mystifying why he is still rated by the IRB as Grade 1! Still we lost the game despite him not because of him.

What the hell has happened to Chris Fusaro ?

21st Century Schizoid Man wrote:

What the hell has happened to Chris Fusaro ?  

Did he play badly?

Maybe the Scotland coach telling him he's not good enough didn't have the intended effect...

BigGee wrote:

IronMike wrote:Enjoyable game but thought Clancy was poor tonight for both teams.

Enjoyable game for the neutral and the Cardiff fans, though a few more of them could have turned up. Cardiff have the making of a decent side there, a lot of good young players who clearly just needed to get some game time.

I have no great complaints about the ref, he actually let it flow pretty well. Glasgow managed to loss the game themselves without any help from Mr Clancy!

We have the foundations of a good side being formed I think, was impressed with Richard Smith, Macauley Cook and Watts-Jones. I believe our backline would be better once Allen and O Williams return, and the front row strengthened by Rees and Jenkins.

IronMike wrote:

BigGee wrote:

IronMike wrote:Enjoyable game but thought Clancy was poor tonight for both teams.

Enjoyable game for the neutral and the Cardiff fans, though a few more of them could have turned up. Cardiff have the making of a decent side there, a lot of good young players who clearly just needed to get some game time.

I have no great complaints about the ref, he actually let it flow pretty well. Glasgow managed to loss the game themselves without any help from Mr Clancy!

We have the foundations of a good side being formed I think, was impressed with Richard Smith, Macauley Cook and Watts-Jones. I believe our backline would be better once Allen and O Williams return, and the front row strengthened by Rees and Jenkins.

Yes Smith showed real promise and that was Cook's best game at 6, I wasn't sure he was going to convert well from 2cnd row but last night convinced me. Dacey was also very good and Patchell is getting better all the time. However my man of the match was probably the oldest one on the pitch, Tau Filise... how long can he go on, he tackled all over the pitch last night.

I'm going to say it. Matawalu is for me, the form scrum half in the NH. When i watch BBC Alba i assume Matawalu means linebreak. You'll do well to keep him when his contract is up. He is very noticeable.

Filise had Grant in his little pocket all game long, deserves some credits.

On a Glasgow's point of view, the only positive was the return of Welsh, best scrummaging loosehead in Scotland, back in his destructive position.

Oh and Nakarawa should start from now on, Nakarawa at 8, Strauss at 6?

I can't help thinking that Glasgow have forgotten how to play "smart". At the very end they were 9pts down and a drop goal would have got us an LBP. So pick n drive until in range, or we get a penalty, and take the point. Instead they threw the ball around looking to score a try from deep. Why? A try would still have only got us one point.
Cardiff deserved the win: their line came up, tackled and put pressure on Glasgow who then made mistakes which were capitalised on. I think if St Sean of Lineen had been watching he would have loved the blouses attitude and gameplan.
We need to learn how to win ugly again.
p.s. Big Naka looks exciting but also, "with ball in hand he looked the most dangerous player on the park: but wether to the opponents or to his own side no-one was ever really sure." as someone said of Toonie in a Lions jersey.

Newsilure wrote:

IronMike wrote:

BigGee wrote:

IronMike wrote:Enjoyable game but thought Clancy was poor tonight for both teams.

Enjoyable game for the neutral and the Cardiff fans, though a few more of them could have turned up. Cardiff have the making of a decent side there, a lot of good young players who clearly just needed to get some game time.

I have no great complaints about the ref, he actually let it flow pretty well. Glasgow managed to loss the game themselves without any help from Mr Clancy!

We have the foundations of a good side being formed I think, was impressed with Richard Smith, Macauley Cook and Watts-Jones. I believe our backline would be better once Allen and O Williams return, and the front row strengthened by Rees and Jenkins.

Yes Smith showed real promise and that was Cook's best game at 6, I wasn't sure he was going to convert well from 2cnd row but last night convinced me. Dacey was also very good and Patchell is getting better all the time. However my man of the match was probably the oldest one on the pitch, Tau Filise... how long can he go on, he tackled all over the pitch last night.

Very impressed with Cook, almost MOTM for me - really stood up, pity Patchell was having one of those games.

Great to see Patchell come back from a long lay off and play like that - think he was struggling in his last few games and looked more like start of the season Patchell last night.

Dacey has been excellent recently, Rees will struggle to get back in the side.

Filise and Hobbs both did surprisingly well.

Big fan of Richard Smith, he is a very solid player and does a very good job considering he is only called in for a couple of games a year - hopefully he will get more chances - though I can't wait for Owen and Allen to be fit.

Our backrow did a good job despite lacking a 7 of any description.

We desperately need to keep hold of Copeland for next season...but I don't think it's going to happen.

Does anyone else seem to think that Hobbs has had a quantum leap in his game? I honestly haven’t rated him ever. Going as far as to say he's the worst pro prop in Wales. But lately he's been solid in the tight and his work rate about the park has increased from what was always a good level. Maybe having Jenkins there has helped to improved him.

Cook really bulked up over the preseason. He is really starting to find his feet in the back row now. Can't say enough good things about Dacey. Possible outsider for the Wales Six Nations camp.

jimbopip wrote:I can't help thinking that Glasgow have forgotten how to play "smart".  At the very end they were 9pts down and a drop goal would have got us an LBP. So pick n drive until in range, or we get a penalty, and take the point. Instead they threw the ball around looking to score a try from deep. Why? A try would still have only got us one point.
Cardiff deserved the win: their line came up, tackled and put pressure on Glasgow who then made mistakes which were capitalised on. I think if St Sean of Lineen had been watching he would have loved the blouses attitude and gameplan.
We need to learn how to win ugly again.
p.s. Big Naka looks exciting but also, "with ball in hand he looked the most dangerous player on the park: but wether to the opponents or to his own side no-one was ever really sure." as someone said of Toonie in a Lions jersey.

Wonder what has happened to Al Kellock ? His leadership just was not there last night and that is the main reason he is there. Agree Big Naka at 8 and Bluto at 6 - Bob Harley has gone off the boil too this season - he will still tackle a tree if required but gave away a few silly penalties last night. Where was the Jedi last night - his oomph was sadly lacking from the bench ?

Not wishing to douse the nascent flames of enthusiasm, Sciz, but balance in a back row is essential.
6. Bluto
8. Big Naka
7. Holmes?
this omits; Harley, Fozzie, Richie Vee, Jedi, and Ryan Wilson who I consider our best 8. However, if he can do the grunt work in the tight then Naka could make a fantastic second row. Captain Kellock looked pedestrian last night and didn't seem able to offer any strategic leadership in order to counteract epidemic of headlesschickenitis.

Agree shags. Should be 8 -Wilson, 7- Holmes and 6 - Strauss Big Naka off the bench for some more Fijian mentalness

Although bizarrely Kellock had his best game of the season at ruck time and in the loose. He also tackled well. Line out poor as was captaincy - his normal strengths. Not helped I'm sure by the antipathy between him and Clownshoes - who had his normal honking game !

I am in two minds about Kellock.
 
Conventional wisdom has it that when playing for Scotland, his relative lack of size and dynamism is balanced by his purported 'leadership' and the generally good approach that is made to decision making under his tenure. This was easier to accept before we had Swinson and either Gray to choose from.
 
However, as Jimbo notes above, there have been a couple of tactical decisions that have not been good and more importantly, Glasgow and Scotland now have lock options which we did not previously. Swinson, Gray and Ryder all offer more than Kellock in a great many respects for Glasgow and I feel very strongly that in any rugby team there cannot be passengers in your first XV.
 
It's not fair on everyone else who genuinely is the first choice in their position, fitness permitting.
 
We have to go all out at home now. I would love to see:
 
1. Grant
2. Hall
3. Low
4. Swinson
5. Gray
6. Strauss
7. Holmes
8. Wilson
 
with Nakarawa on the bench, alongside Sir Richard of Vernon.

Sounds like the big Fijian loosie has made a big impact?

RDW_Scotland wrote:Sounds like the big Fijian loosie has made a big impact?

My first real look at him and he just does look and play like a much larger version of Niko. I don't imagine he knows the meaning of the phrases 'gameplan' and 'controlled game'. He certainly is dynamic though.

He is going to be a work in progress for a while and for the moment it is hard to see him in any other role than impact sub off the bench. He is certainly capable of making an impact though and in the longer term could end up being another very good signing for us.

What happened between Kellock & Clancy (allegedly) ? Anyone point to specific games / instances ?

All games involving those 2 for Glasgow and Scotland. Real deep seated animosity. Big Al should blooter him one day.

I just looked at the stats. Glasgow shuld not have lost that game - how did they? 779 m run with the ball.

Cardff Kick/pass/run Glasgow
27 Kicks from hand 16
111 Passes 205
88 Runs 169
481 Metres run with ball 779
Attacking
40% (50%/28%) Possession (1H/2H) 60% (50%/72%)

Also from the stats - its turnovers and they are mainly in the outside backs - so presumably in attacking positions?

They seemed to make a lot of handling errors and players seemed to get isolated a few times. Glasgow don't seem to have the same accuracy or incisiveness as they did in the second half of last season, tis a shame as they were great to watch

Yes - no Peter Horne thats why

Yes Pete Horne was looking good for you last season, do you think it's all down to his injury though? How long until he's back?

Next season - cruciate ligament torn

How did weir do anyone? Couple of turnovers in the stats. Has he started with matowalo much before?

I would have thought Bennett could have used Horne's injury to his advantage, not the case, was with the 7's at the weekend  

Quite- one of Townsend's most bizarre and unfathomable decisions  

Just two points to raise, chaps.
The statistics, not just for this game, seem to show we are playing the same type of game as last season but we're just not putting it all together; as in lots of line breaks, passes, defenders beaten, yards made etc but not many tries at the end of it all. So does Toonie tell them to stick to their guns and it will all come right or does he have a plan B? I can't help thinking that it requires more of a "tweak" rather than a complete overhaul, babies and bathwater spring to mind. Four wins against Cardiff, Chiefs and the MFL will see 2014 looking much more enticing than it does now. Keep the faith, even if the Muppeotmeter is rising.
Secondly, Connacht v Toulouse!!!! Dan Parks what a man:shock:  

21st Century Schizoid Man wrote:Yes - no Peter Horne thats why

Peter Horne's reputation seems to be soaring this season, despite him not actually playing. Be careful of that, he's a good centre but the problems are not solely down to him missing. It's an easy trap.

We need to start dropping the starters if they aren't delivering.
 
Would love to see:
1. Grant
2. Hall
3. Low
4. Swinson
5. Gray
6. Strauss
7. Holmes
8. Wilson
 
9. Niko
10. Weir When He Isn't Dropping Crucial Balls
11. DTH
12. Dunbar
13. Bennett
14. Maitland
15. Hogg
 
Jedi, Welsh, Vernon and Big Naka have all made terrific cameos this season and we need that sort of consistency on the pitch.
 
I agree that our midfield has not caught a dose of the willies because Horne is not back, although his importance as both a link man and a creator of chances should not be forgotten. I think that we are suffering a little from Townsend chopping and changing halfbacks and from the injuries we've had to backs. Dunbar looked miles off when he finally came back and Hogg is only starting to play well now. And even he made a couple of low percentage howlers by trying to force play.
 
We need to go back to basics of strong pack movement up the middle. We are more than capable of it and against the Ospreys a fortnight ago showed that we hadn't forgotton how to.

Bennett scored at the weekend, as our 7s team was traditionally tonked by the Aussies and Fiji. We beat France though. Enormous whoop. I would rather have had Bennett back for the last game.

I really don't understand dropping Bennett. A Dunbar/Bennett partnership could really work well, particularly with Jackson's passing capabilities at 10 (a Weir/Dunbar axis is pretty stodgy). I also think Glasgow need to stop messing about with Niko, and let him cause havoc from 9. I don't think shifting him to wing and fullback is allowing his specialist skillset at 9 to develop, plus Hogg really needs a run now at 15 to re-capture form and confidence.

I can't believe how poor Glasgow have been in the last few games given the quality of players they have. Toonie needs to earn his corn now.

TJ wrote:I just looked at the stats.  Glasgow shuld not have lost that game - how did they?  779 m run with the ball.

Cardff  Kick/pass/run          Glasgow
27 Kicks from hand 16
111 Passes                205
88 Runs                169
481 Metres run with ball 779
Attacking
40% (50%/28%) Possession (1H/2H) 60% (50%/72%)

Boys, boys... I know that statistics can be made to prove anything you want BUT the difference on Friday night was (a) Weir dropped a pass in goal which led to a try, (b) Kalman's pass was intercepted when we were chasing a late winner. Take those two aberrations / Brain farts out of the game and we were the better, although not smarter, team.
Baby..bathwater. Repeat until a sense of perspective is restored.