Scotland Fans' 2014 6N of hell Post-mortem

First topic message reminder :

EDIT March 18th post-Scotland's capitulation to Wales

So, it's the end of the six nations. I have to say the intention of this early prediction thread was to calm all suppositions that Scotland might be anywhere near a threat this year. I have maintained that things look better with Cotter coming in (and hopefully not having to resort to 5th/6th choice wings, though that couldn't have been predicted).

Someone pointed out that in this last game if Wales had received the red card the scoreline would not have been the same in reverse. In fact I would be very worried that we still would have lost. To me it feels like it was an excuse to put the heads down/give Johnson the farewell he deserves.

Personally, I am lost for words. Not really sure where to go from here.

Anyone?

***

EDIT March 8th post-Scotland's capitulation to France.

Come hither one and all and we shall drink our sorrows away...

***
EDIT February 8th post-Scotland's capitulation to England & Ireland

I was right all along.

***

I got this in early because I did not want to see anybody from any nation suggest for any minute that Scotland has a chance of doing anything other than :

a) Cleaning their dirties in a smeg [White Wash]
b) Making lots of soup this winter [wooden spoon]
c) Scraping a win against Italy , in the dying seconds after a urine poor performance , which still might result in "b)" anyway.

No they did not beat Ireland.  
No they did not beat England.
No they did not beat France.  
No they did not beat Wales.  

They might *look* like they are going to win to any outsiders no privy to the Scotland set up, but I guarantee you no sensible Scottish fan will be expecting anything but a, b & c this season.

Why?

• We have an interim coach (for over a year!!!)who is more worried about what he says on camera than apparently coaching a sensible game plan
  
• Our breakdown is awful
  
• We have the psychological hardness of my nan - you don't know my nan but that's not good
  
• Our best players are either never played in position, not allowed to play in the XXIII at all, or are just awful at the moment. Not making the injury excuse because frankly it doesn't apply with exception of 2 key players that might be back in time. Happens in every squad
  
• etc, etc (feel free to add to this list)
  

So look, when we are compiling our 6N predictions this year, can we just for once all agree on something?

1. AN Other
2. AN Other
3. AN Other
4. AN Other
5. Maybe Scotland
6. Probably Scotland

Anyone mentions "dark horses" and "Scotland" in the same sentence without a negation clause in there somewhere (and you KNOW what I mean) I am getting our the knuckle dusters    

RDW_Scotland wrote:

TJ wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:4) - shame he's not in the squad then!

Errmmm - just looked at the Scotland squad on the SRU site and Barclay is in it the squad of 40 that is.  Where do we see a squad without him?

Dunno where that 40 man squad came from as SJ has only ever announced a 36 man squad!

40 man squad http://www.scottishrugby.org/scotland-squads/scotland

36 man squad http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/25744819

TJ wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:

TJ wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:4) - shame he's not in the squad then!

Errmmm - just looked at the Scotland squad on the SRU site and Barclay is in it the squad of 40 that is.  Where do we see a squad without him?

Dunno where that 40 man squad came from as SJ has only ever announced a 36 man squad!

http://www.scottishrugby.org/scotland-squads/scotland

Don't think that's the 6N squad - just the website putting up the typical Scotland squad. It is the same for the under 20s etc when you click on the website - it's not the actual squad.

All of the press releases and articles on the SRU website last week was a 36 man squad, with no Barclay.

Updated above - the two squads - I am confuzzled.

It's probably like how Glasgow still have Vernon in the forward pack - just not updated.

sru.org is notoriously out of date for just about anything apart from results.

Not sure if you've seen this yet, but a great wee article with some brilliant highlights...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/25712975

Enjoy!

Thanks Tattie that was a trip down memory lane well worth taking.

The offloading from the Scots forwards is bloody impressive!

* Apparently Robbie robinson is joining Ulster - is he SQ? / Wanting to play in Europe for a great side and Scotland???

In transfer forum

always optimistic for scotland - very optimistic if you can beat irleand and france beat england - but until they learn to take try scoring opportunities and sort problems from 9-13 i think they will always be fighting it out with italy....incredible back 3 and Hogg could be world class, is Visser fit?

Nematode wrote:* Apparently Robbie robinson is joining Ulster - is he SQ? / Wanting to play in Europe for a great side and Scotland???

In transfer forum

He is SQ. Would be good if this happens

It would be bloomin marvellous if this happens

And he decides to throw his lot in with us that is

nickj wrote:It would be bloomin marvellous if this happens

Not for Scotland it won't. As said in the other thread he will almost certainly have a clause committing him to Ireland in three years time if he goes that way. If we really want him then we need to bring him to one of our teams.

Really? That sounds slightly bloody daft if he's already Scots qualified?

nickj wrote:Really? That sounds slightly bloody daft if he's already Scots qualified?

He is Scots qualified in he same way he is New Zealand qualified, if he stays in another country for three years he will also qualify for them. He has not been committed to anyone yet, that will only happen when he is capped.

The Irish are not going to pay him to develop him for Scotland They pick their NIQ players either as ex internationals or as project players. Pretty much the only exception to that is Pinear, who seemed likely to become an ex international when he arrived but has had hi international career revived. Then again you probably would make an exception for him wouldn't you!

Good write up on Planet Rugby reviewing our chances for the 6n. Pretty much a summary of what many are thinking .... Why Brown at 7 not Fusaro, where is Barclay/Roddy Grant and trouble at 10 (same as it ever was)

So if Brown was at 6 then why not have Fusaro at 7 and Beattie at 8? I really prefer Beattie to Denton - he (Denton) more and more reminds me of Dallaglio in his latter years ... looking for contact and very quickly hitting the deck (or worse getting held up). I think Beattie would make the opposition think a bit a more re offloading and pace...

As we're getting close I thought I'd remind everyone, as the proud OPer of this thread, that we are going to lose to Ireland quite spectacularly in a normal service resumed 6N.

Don't worry, we'll get better in the summer. Maybe.

Ineffable wrote:As we're getting close I thought I'd remind everyone, as the proud OPer of this thread, that we are going to lose to Ireland quite spectacularly in a normal service resumed 6N.

Don't worry, we'll get better in the summer. Maybe.

Yes, but by posting team selections  that we suspect SJ wont pick can look back and at least say I told you so.
But yes, I feel a right bleaching coming our way on Sunday.  

Not wishing to reignite the Tonks debate (Oh hell, let's do this!), but I watched last year's Scotland A v Saxons game again tonight (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDjGIZb0XI4).

Tonks really was outstanding that night - if he can replicate some of that brilliance, whether for the As or the full team, we'll be doing alright. Other excellent performances from Angela Welsh, Stevie Lawrie (what has happened to him this year?), Dickinson and Ryan Wilson.

I can't wait for Friday. Oh yeah, Sunday will be alright too.

Lawrie has been out injured all year. He's done pretty well as the BBC alba summariser so he's maybe going to have a career switch!

RDW_Scotland wrote:Lawrie has been out injured all year. He's done pretty well as the BBC alba summariser so he's maybe going to have a career switch!

Mate of mine bumped into Omar a few weeks back and asked how Lawrie was getting on, his response was "who?"

Clearly Omar's not a big follower of BBC Alba!

I guess Omar never read Little Women.

TJ wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:4) - shame he's not in the squad then!

Can he not be added?  :-(  

AS a Scotland fan we are only allowed two views - either hopeless pessimism - "wooden spoon again" or overoptimistic rose tinted glasses "the grand slam is ours for the taking"

We're doomed! We're doomed I tell yer.... to win the grand slam!

Anyone enlighten me on why Barclay (who is playing well) is not in the entire squad?

[quote="flyhalffactory"][quote="TJ"]

RDW_Scotland wrote:
Anyone enlighten me on why Barclay (who is playing well) is not in the entire squad?

Can only guess that he slept with Johnson's wife / sister. Or ran over his cat. Or slept with his cat and ran over his wife / sister...

flyhalffactory wrote:

TJ wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:4) - shame he's not in the squad then!

Can he not be added?  :-(  

AS a Scotland fan we are only allowed two views - either hopeless pessimism - "wooden spoon again" or overoptimistic rose tinted glasses "the grand slam is ours for the taking"

We're doomed! We're doomed I tell yer.... to win the grand slam!

Anyone enlighten me on why Barclay (who is playing well) is not in the entire squad?

I thought he stole all the biscuits

Depressing stat from the Hootsman's Alex Massie, in the last 10 years we've played 71 6Nations games. Won 18 of them, drawn 2 & lost 51.
Supporting Scotland is like a tax on hope   

Effie - can we rename this thread the 'Scotland 6 Nations Victim Support Group Thread'.

After todays game i dont think Scotland will be in with a chance this year. to be honest.

My name is A Bargy and I am recovering Scotland fan. It's been 9 months since I last saw them play well....

One thing that stood out for me ...a moment I wish I could unsee... was when Lamont (supposedly as fast as anyone in the Glasgow team according to....eh..himself) tried to run the ball out of our 22 and basically got caught after a bullocking 15ft run by a couple of Irish (forwards?). Continents form faster...

Scottish rugby, and the players, need a good hard boot up the arse.

[quote="majesticimperialman"]After todays game i dont think Scotland will be in with a chance this year. to be honest

I bow to the master of understatement...  

We lost an away match to a team some people are tipping for the title and everyone seems to be off to commit hari-kari.

It was a disappointing crumble in the 2nd half but nowhere near as bad a performance as people are making out.

We played a smart territory game and kept them at arms length most of the first 50 minutes. But we were undone by a poor set-piece, the backs didn't get a single chance to attack of set-piece.

Thought Weir & Dunbar did well, which fills in the blanks around Laidlaw & Scott for now.

Argybargy wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:After todays game i dont think Scotland will be in with a chance this year. to be honest

I bow to the master of understatement...  

To be honest a did fancy Scotland to win this. Even though the way Ireland played against NZ last year was great, i thought it would be a blip.

But they (Ireland) do seem to be carrying on from last years game.

tigertattie wrote:Player              Span         Mat Start Sub Pts Tries Conv Pens Drop GfM  Won
BJ Barrett (NZ) 2012-2013 16      2     14 57     4     11     5     0       0  16

Is this the best player ever?

Beauden Barrett? Bloody great player, his impact sub try scoring rate is great!

Argybargy wrote:My name is A Bargy and I am recovering Scotland fan. It's been 9 months since I last saw them play well....

One thing that stood out for me ...a moment I wish I could unsee... was when Lamont (supposedly as fast as anyone in the Glasgow team according to....eh..himself) tried to run the ball out of our 22 and basically got caught after a bullocking 15ft run by a couple of Irish (forwards?).  Continents form faster...

BOD caught him from behind. I don't think he was running at full tilt either to be fair, I suspect he was trying to assess the options in front of him - oh well

Well if SJ picks Ford again, I am assured that we will mange to win some more wooden Kitchen items and also ensure that this article is spot on

Riskysports wrote:Well if SJ picks Ford again, I am assured that we will mange to win some more wooden Kitchen items and also ensure that this article is spot on

A number of team changes required I feel, Ford the most obviously deserving of losing his place (in the squad, not just the team). It's become the norm now for our attacking lineout to go wrong when we're near the opposition line, no chance of us scoring a try similar to Heaslip's.
I wonder what Vern Cotter made of it watching yesterday's lame efforts?

Take the scoreboard out the way and I think the overall play has improved. I thought Weir looked half decent with the ball in hand but the clinical issue is still very apparent. Ran away from us in the end but rugby is like that.

Why is Gray out the side? Off form? I think the set piece would improve if he's back. He's a huge lump in the scrums and if we can get him lifting then the lineout would surely improve with his added height and reach. Hooker needs to be replaced though. You can't play yourself into form... not at one of the key positions in the game. You have to be on it all the time. 1 mess up out of 10 is the max allowance.

fa0019 wrote:Take the scoreboard out the way and I think the overall play has improved. I thought Weir looked half decent with the ball in hand but the clinical issue is still very apparent. Ran away from us in the end but rugby is like that.

Why is Gray out the side? Off form? I think the set piece would improve if he's back. He's a huge lump in the scrums and if we can get him lifting then the lineout would surely improve with his added height and reach. Hooker needs to be replaced though. You can't play yourself into form... not at one of the key positions in the game. You have to be on it all the time. 1 mess up out of 10 is the max allowance.

fa, Can you detail which aspects? I don't think the players are helped by bizarre selections/substitutions, but I'm struggling to see anything except a group of players in reverse?

fa0019 wrote:Take the scoreboard out the way and I think the overall play has improved. I thought Weir looked half decent with the ball in hand but the clinical issue is still very apparent. Ran away from us in the end but rugby is like that.

Why is Gray out the side? Off form? I think the set piece would improve if he's back. He's a huge lump in the scrums and if we can get him lifting then the lineout would surely improve with his added height and reach. Hooker needs to be replaced though. You can't play yourself into form... not at one of the key positions in the game. You have to be on it all the time. 1 mess up out of 10 is the max allowance.

Not sure I agree

We huffed a puffed in the first half - never looking like getting near their try line and fell apart like paper bag in the second

the only glimmers of light were - Hogg seems to be getting better and Weir seemed ok

It is all well and good to have 60% of the ball - but after 15 phases and you have not made a yard, it is pointless - like we near were

It was a terrible terrible display

Yet more p1sh served up with a smattering of baws.

SJ is way out of his depth and if the SRU have even an ounce of common sense they will send him TF as far away from Scotland as possible. How can we even remotely consider having a failure as DoR?????

Where to start????

Ford - Cheerio....and Blair can stop making excuses about the lineout in his BBC column....feckin embarrassing.

Backrow - We need a proper 7 now or England are going to absolutely demolish us at the breakdown a la last year. Barclay is in great form, even Rennie, who scored two tries on his debut for Bristol at the weekend would be an improvement. Barclay, Beattie and Denton would be my pick...possibly even Harley.

Actually, seriously can't be arsed with this Groundhog Year.

Should beat Italy though  

Tattie Scones RRN wrote:Should beat Italy though  

I don't even think we are capable of that.

Got an email from the SRU the other day inviting me to watch the team train this Wednesday. Tempting to go just somI can shout at SJ and tell him to pick a bloody openside

GLove39 wrote:Got an email from the SRU the other day inviting me to watch the team train this Wednesday. Tempting to go just somI can shout at SJ and tell him to pick a bloody openside

Careful - SJ may select you out of position and you will move from 'spectator' to 'back row' - just make sure that you do not have anything with a number 8 on it

We really have become the laughing stock of the 6 nations. Quite a few Irish posters commenting yesterday about Ireland not really trying, seeing it as a warm up game for next week and not wanting to give too much away. Our opposition must now be wringing their hands with glee at playing us.

Also while I am having a bit of a rant, do you know what really pisses me off. All these people on Facebook who become defensive and call others out for not being a "true supporter" because they have the audacity to criticise the team. No one in the SRU seems willing to step up and say we were Poopie. The players don't. They seem to be above criticism. I would hope constantly being on the wrong end of a beating would bring them back down to earth. Doesn't seem to though.

So onwards and downwards for the rest of the 6 Nations it is then.

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

fa0019 wrote:Take the scoreboard out the way and I think the overall play has improved. I thought Weir looked half decent with the ball in hand but the clinical issue is still very apparent. Ran away from us in the end but rugby is like that.

Why is Gray out the side? Off form? I think the set piece would improve if he's back. He's a huge lump in the scrums and if we can get him lifting then the lineout would surely improve with his added height and reach. Hooker needs to be replaced though. You can't play yourself into form... not at one of the key positions in the game. You have to be on it all the time. 1 mess up out of 10 is the max allowance.

fa, Can you detail which aspects?  I don't think the players are helped by bizarre selections/substitutions, but I'm struggling to see anything except a group of players in reverse?

Up to a recently the team couldn't hardly put 2 phases together without being turnovered, dropping the ball etc. They would drop tackles in midfield and the kicks were at best pointless. This is different. The same issues of struggling to look clinical (i.e. a class difference) but I saw a lot of improvements.

Doesn't mean they played well but the team is far better then they were under Robinson. The backline actually has some promise to it. The centres for the first time look like they can cut it at test level. The 3/4s when all fit are very dangerous and the halfbacks are no longer 2nd division.

The backrow balance looks a little off and no.2 needs to change as Ford has lost confidence...we saw that in the AIs.

It was eventually a bad result and it was frustrating to see them lose so much ball and not look threatening when in possession but for me there were aspects which showed they are on a upwards curve... my only issue is that I'm not sure if the next step is out of their reach and beyond their talent capabilities.

cakeordeath wrote:

Tattie Scones RRN wrote:Should beat Italy though  

I don't even think we are capable of that.

I would agree with that.

What was so disppointing from a Scottish perspective was that they looked like the one country who didn't have the ability
to develop. Maitland and Hogg apart 10 to 15 were substandard
Italy had backs with far more potential

Sooooooooooo

Can we change the title of this thread now?

I always try to look at things from a glass half full point of view but that game yesterday was just utterly dire.

For the first 15 mins we huffed and puffed and ran and ran at (into) the irish defense. What did we achieve? Hee haw!

We threw miss passes when we had overlaps. We didnt trouble the Irish line at all in open play. The players seem to be sticking to some odd form of game plan and if anyone deviates from this plan, the other players jsut stand around looking confused.
Case in point. We have the ball, It's passed to Hogg. Hogg looks to pass the ball down the line but sees a gap. Hogg goes through the gap but has no options to his right to pass to now. Why? Because the other players are still in the same position they were before Hogg when through the gap. They are jogging along wondering "good lord, that fellow was supposed to pass the ball down the line, what is he doing running towards the try line"

It is a shambles!

Our scrum is going nowhere. Our hooker wont hook when the scrums are stationary

Our line out has gone from one of the best in the NH, to one of the worst. Ford can't throw but our lifters/jumpers are not functioning also. We keep hearing that Hamilton needs to be picked as he is the only on that knows the calls. Well it looks like the calls aint working so why bother???

Our whole forward pack need a lesson in rucking and counter rucking. We're a joke at this right now.

Our backline was woeful yesterday. Not a single player cut any decent angles all day!

Someone needs to tell Laidlaw that box kicking (all the time) is about as effective as using my gran as a tighthead prop!

We need to play a backrow of 6,7 and 8 - Not 8, 8 and 8 (Kelly Brown at 7 I can handle)

For next week, a rocket needs fired up the whole team's backside.

MacArthur needs to start over Ford
Swinson and Gray Snr need to be the starting locks
Matt Scott needs to start (lack of game time aside, he'll be better going forward than Taylor)
Laidlaw needs to learn to pass the ball to 10 or 15 to hoof the ball up field rather than these constant bloommin box kicks
Hogg needs to run angled lines in and around the 13 channel (even some dummy runs)
God knows what we'll do with our wings if Maitland is out long term

To finish, I'll say I thought Alex Dunbar did no harm to his credentials. Had a decent game considering the guff around him

I actually thought Taylor had a good game and put in a good defensive shift.