Scotland Fans' 2014 6N of hell Post-mortem

First topic message reminder :

EDIT March 18th post-Scotland's capitulation to Wales

So, it's the end of the six nations. I have to say the intention of this early prediction thread was to calm all suppositions that Scotland might be anywhere near a threat this year. I have maintained that things look better with Cotter coming in (and hopefully not having to resort to 5th/6th choice wings, though that couldn't have been predicted).

Someone pointed out that in this last game if Wales had received the red card the scoreline would not have been the same in reverse. In fact I would be very worried that we still would have lost. To me it feels like it was an excuse to put the heads down/give Johnson the farewell he deserves.

Personally, I am lost for words. Not really sure where to go from here.

Anyone?

***

EDIT March 8th post-Scotland's capitulation to France.

Come hither one and all and we shall drink our sorrows away...

***
EDIT February 8th post-Scotland's capitulation to England & Ireland

I was right all along.

***

I got this in early because I did not want to see anybody from any nation suggest for any minute that Scotland has a chance of doing anything other than :

a) Cleaning their dirties in a smeg [White Wash]
b) Making lots of soup this winter [wooden spoon]
c) Scraping a win against Italy , in the dying seconds after a urine poor performance , which still might result in "b)" anyway.

No they did not beat Ireland.  
No they did not beat England.
No they did not beat France.  
No they did not beat Wales.  

They might *look* like they are going to win to any outsiders no privy to the Scotland set up, but I guarantee you no sensible Scottish fan will be expecting anything but a, b & c this season.

Why?

• We have an interim coach (for over a year!!!)who is more worried about what he says on camera than apparently coaching a sensible game plan
  
• Our breakdown is awful
  
• We have the psychological hardness of my nan - you don't know my nan but that's not good
  
• Our best players are either never played in position, not allowed to play in the XXIII at all, or are just awful at the moment. Not making the injury excuse because frankly it doesn't apply with exception of 2 key players that might be back in time. Happens in every squad
  
• etc, etc (feel free to add to this list)
  

So look, when we are compiling our 6N predictions this year, can we just for once all agree on something?

1. AN Other
2. AN Other
3. AN Other
4. AN Other
5. Maybe Scotland
6. Probably Scotland

Anyone mentions "dark horses" and "Scotland" in the same sentence without a negation clause in there somewhere (and you KNOW what I mean) I am getting our the knuckle dusters    

It gets worse...

“Look, I could have taken the really easy option and just tried to get a competitive side that could see us through,” [DO THAT!] he said. “I don’t just want to do that. I want Scotland to have a really good international team. I am prepared to take what I feel are the kids that can take us on that ride. It is about winning. I look at our ten, 12, 13 midfield positions and I know there is imperfection there [Dunbar was one of the standouts...], but I also know that they are talented, can learn and, if they get a foundation to play off, can be as good as anyone. So I am going to stick with that.”

So, no changes for Italy, next up in 12 days, and no swift return for skipper Kelly Brown? “I am not going to make massive changes,” he said. “If it needs to be tinkered with I will tinker. I could keep going back and retrace my steps but I am trying to be fair. I am trying to show some growth in the team. If someone has to miss out because of that, so be it. We will be honest with our assessment. If we learn to punish sides and turn the ball straight away you will see quick improvement. They are gifted enough with a bit of front foot stuff that it may come quicker than we all think. It may not be as quickly as you guys [the media] want it to be but we will get there.”

I'm sorry but I watched the 2nd half with friends that had never seen rugby and even they knew Ford was awful and Hamilton was slow. Any coach that wasn't going directly to DoR would be concerned about their job and gutting the front 5, 6 and 10. It's the only option. How much is it naievity in the coaches not knowing what to do, playing the same players and laying the blame on them?

We also need forwards that don't need a zimmer.

I know R Gray isn't in best of form but he is faster than Hamilton and makes his tackles. Put him with J Gray and they'd put in a good show.

Just so annoying....

Johnson is correct in one way to broaden the pool of capped players - however not at the expense of being competitive. this quote just smacks of excuses. Its not as if we had a lot of choice in many positions. Selecting ford and Hamilton were clearly mistakes.

I've just realised, the French coach saint-andre has morphed into SJ and done a michalak by picking the front 5, 6 & 10 persistently.

For the Glasgow supporters:

SIGNING: GLASGOW - FOLAU NIUA

http://www.glasgowwarriors.org/news/14/02/09/united-states-international-niua-signs

RDW_Scotland wrote:Scott Johnson had said he's not going to make many changes for the Italy game.

  

     

"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results" We the fans & paying public deserve so much better.

GLove39 wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:Scott Johnson had said he's not going to make many changes for the Italy game.

  

     

"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results" We the fans & paying public deserve so much better.

What so the tactic is kick the ball down the opposition throats and pray they make mistakes? News Flash Johnno! The rest of NH rugby isn't as pish as us.

Ergo this tactic is doomed to fail. It's not as if McLean is weak under the high ball and tbh those Itallian back three look dangerous.

We'll almost certainly get dicked if we try this in Rome.

Nematode wrote: So, no changes for Italy, next up in 12 days, and no swift return for skipper Kelly Brown? “I am not going to make massive changes,” he said. “If it needs to be tinkered with I will tinker. I could keep going back and retrace my steps but I am trying to be fair. I am trying to show some growth in the team. If someone has to miss out because of that, so be it. We will be honest with our assessment. If we learn to punish sides and turn the ball straight away you will see quick improvement. They are gifted enough with a bit of front foot stuff that it may come quicker than we all think. It may not be as quickly as you guys [the media] want it to be but we will get there.”

How is it going to be an improvement when every time we get our hands on the ball we kick it away aimlessly, which is clearly part of our 'tactics'?

Player ratings from scottishrugbyblog.co.uk:

Scotland v England Player Ratings

by Brodie Smithers

Stuart Hogg – A shrewd operator. Made good decisions and crucially showed that his kicking game has turned from a onetime weakness into a true strength of his game. One of the better performers in a turgid game. 7/10

Tommy Seymour – Brought in for his ‘aerial ability’ and proved his worth a few times from Scottish kick-offs. Caught the eye with a few line breaks but spent most of the afternoon fruitlessly chasing chip kicks into the corners. Subbed on 65 minutes. 6/10

Alex Dunbar – Very little chance to shine in the first half due to a deluge of defensive duties, which he performed faultlessly. Slowing down ball at rucks and leading the line with good speed. His try saving tackle on May was marred by a yellow card for not releasing. 7/10

Matt Scott – Showed a bit of invention, often in the middle of heavy traffic but got little ball from Weir. Had to step up when his midfield co-pilot was sin-binned and looked exhausted as a result. Taylor eventually relieved him from the coalface. 5/10

Sean Lamont –Gave away a stupid penalty in front of our posts in the first half. Worked tirelessly but his lack of gas was horribly exposed on several occasions when chasing down garry owens to Nowell. 5/10

Duncan Weir – I didn’t enjoy the tactical choice but his chip kicks to the corners were generally executed well. Solid in defence and made some telling tackles, for the second week running. A good genral game but didn’t set the heather on fire. 6/10

Greig Laidlaw – Slow ball, quick ball, slow ball, quick ball. Frustrating service to the little scrum half and he showed, in glimpses, what he can do with a good platform. Had a rare off day with the goal kicking and subsequently exposed the lack of other options in this department we have. 5/10

Ryan Grant – Achieved parity in the few scrums he had to deal with and generally showed up well in the loose. Lucky to get away with allowing Farrell through at the end of the first half. Shepards crook came out three minutes into the second half. Not his best game. 5/10

Ross Ford – Scotland are scrummaging with three props in the front row. Line outs improved though. Not enough to save him from an early substitution in the second half. 5/10

Moray Low – A couple of booming line breaks. Held his own in the scrum without dominating his opposite number. An all-round solid game from the big tighthead. 6/10

Tim Swinson – Fairly anonymous. Worked hard at the breakdown, smothered and stifled in defence and solid in the set pieces but failed to make a genuine impact or to catch the eye. Will need to show some of his summer form if he is to keep the jersey. 5/10

Jim Hamilton – A penalty machine and, at times, a total liability. The English pack made him look clumsy and we paid through the scoreboard. Thankfully Farrell was off-form with his kicking. Picking him ahead of Richie Gray backfired badly on this occasion. 4/10

Ryan Wilson – Worked well in the line outs but was often found wanting in the contact areas. Showed heart and battled as best he could but looked fairly limited at this level. Can’t help but feel Strokosch may have offered more, not to mention Brown… 5/10

David Denton – Took contact when better options were available a few times. Tireless effort from the young number eight. So much so that he was deemed spent 50 minutes into the action and subbed off. 6/10

Chris Fusaro – Looked like the adrenaline of his first cap was taking its toll late in the first half but Scotlands better showing at the breakdown this week must be partly attributed to his groundwork. A good debut in a difficult game. Will hope for more opportunities in better times for the blue shirt of Scotland. 7/10



Subs

Scott Lawson – Put Ford out of his misery early in the second period and almost immediately gave away two penalties in consecutives scrums. Did that scuttling thing he does when ball carrying, to not much effect. 4/10

Alisdair Dickinson – Like his predecessor was stepped in midfield by Farrell but managed to recover. Part of a period of poor scrum work by Scotland but put in an honest, if limited, shift. 5/10

Geoff Cross – Came into things late. Got a good cheer. Wore a scrum cap. We like Geoff. 5/10

Johnnie Beattie – Entered the fray on 52 minutes to add some spark in attack.Succeeded in making things a bit more dynamic at the breakdown and was part of several good breaks late in the game. Should have started. 7/10

Chris Cusiter – A popular substitute in the 65th minute. Tried to speed things up amongst tired bodies but just couldn’t get his hands on it. Given the armband as compensation but was very much skippering a sinking ship. 6/10

Duncan Taylor – Came on for Matt Scott with 7 minutes left. Left little impression. 5/10

Max Evans – Came on for Seymour, tried his best to impose his speed on the game but ended up defending and rucking most of the time. The poor lad. 5/10

Jonny Gray – Got 10 minutes at the end after everyone’s patience with Jim Hamilton wore out. 5/10

Those ratings from scottishrugbyblog are ludicrously high. Knock off at least 2 marks from everyone ion the first XV bar Denton, Dunbar and Fusaro.

Captain_Sensible wrote:Those ratings from scottishrugbyblog are ludicrously high. Knock off at least 2 marks from everyone ion the first XV bar Denton, Dunbar and Fusaro.

fixed that for you

No charge

Captain_Sensible wrote:Those ratings from scottishrugbyblog are ludicrously high. Knock off at least 2 marks from everyone ion the first XV bar Denton, Dunbar and Fusaro.

Pretty much what I thought - one mark off for Denton, Dunbar, Hogg and Fusaro, two off for the rest

tigertattie wrote:

Captain_Sensible wrote:Those ratings from scottishrugbyblog are ludicrously high. Knock off at least 2 marks from everyone ion the first XV bar Denton, Dunbar and Fusaro.

fixed that for you

No charge

You obviously have a blind spot re Denton. He did well on Saturday. Needs to develop an offloading game, but he provided our only source of go-forward ball.

Gonna Ammend this

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:Player ratings from scottishrugbyblog.co.uk:

Scotland v England Player Ratings

by Brodie Smithers

Stuart Hogg – A shrewd operator. Made good decisions and crucially showed that his kicking game has turned from a onetime weakness into a true strength of his game. One of the better performers in a turgid game. 7/10
Missed 4 tackles and tried to take too much on himself. 3/10

Tommy Seymour – Brought in for his ‘aerial ability’ and proved his worth a few times from Scottish kick-offs. Caught the eye with a few line breaks but spent most of the afternoon fruitlessly chasing chip kicks into the corners. Subbed on 65 minutes. 6/10
1 decent line break again a catalogue of missed tackles 3/10

Alex Dunbar – Very little chance to shine in the first half due to a deluge of defensive duties, which he performed faultlessly. Slowing down ball at rucks and leading the line with good speed. His try saving tackle on May was marred by a yellow card for not releasing. 7/10
had no choice but to comit a profesional foul and took his yellow card well and IMO was the pick of the backs 5/10

Matt Scott – Showed a bit of invention, often in the middle of heavy traffic but got little ball from Weir. Had to step up when his midfield co-pilot was sin-binned and looked exhausted as a result. Taylor eventually relieved him from the coalface. 5/10
basicly never had the ball, no fault of his own Weir and Laidlaw kept punting the ball away. missed a few tackles in defence 4/10

Sean Lamont –Gave away a stupid penalty in front of our posts in the first half. Worked tirelessly but his lack of gas was horribly exposed on several occasions when chasing down garry owens to Nowell. 5/10
^ what that guy said, dunno how he scored 5 with such a terrible review of his performance. 0.5 points for putting his shirt on -1 point for giving away a 7 point penalty time to call it a day Sean -0.5/10

Duncan Weir – I didn’t enjoy the tactical choice but his chip kicks to the corners were generally executed well. Solid in defence and made some telling tackles, for the second week running. A good genral game but didn’t set the heather on fire. 6/10
Didn't play too badly but didn't have the guts to change the gameplan that wasn't working. He was in a terrible position, kicking to touch was suicidal with the way our linout was functioning 3/10

Greig Laidlaw – Slow ball, quick ball, slow ball, quick ball. Frustrating service to the little scrum half and he showed, in glimpses, what he can do with a good platform. Had a rare off day with the goal kicking and subsequently exposed the lack of other options in this department we have. 5/10
See Weir but worse, Laidlaw is an astute player and looks blatantly over coached again didn't have the guts to change the gameplan that wasn't working he scores worse because he was the captain and should have changed the gameplan from 9. He was in a terrible position, kicking to touch was suicidal with the way our linout was functioning 2/10



Ryan Grant – Achieved parity in the few scrums he had to deal with and generally showed up well in the loose. Lucky to get away with allowing Farrell through at the end of the first half. Shepards crook came out three minutes into the second half. Not his best game. 5/10
hard to judge scrummaging on a pitch like that, did nothing in the loose to make up for it though 3/10

Ross Ford – Scotland are scrummaging with three props in the front row. Line outs improved though. Not enough to save him from an early substitution in the second half. 5/10
He put his shirt on 0.5 marks, he retained his dignity when subbed off public execution style in a packed Murrayfield 0.5 marks. 1/10

Moray Low – A couple of booming line breaks. Held his own in the scrum without dominating his opposite number. An all-round solid game from the big tighthead. 6/10
A couple of booming line breaks? Was this guy on crack or something when he watched the game? 2/10


Tim Swinson – Fairly anonymous. Worked hard at the breakdown, smothered and stifled in defence and solid in the set pieces but failed to make a genuine impact or to catch the eye. Will need to show some of his summer form if he is to keep the jersey. 5/10
Fairly anonymous? Completely anonymous. 2/10



Jim Hamilton – A penalty machine and, at times, a total liability. The English pack made him look clumsy and we paid through the scoreboard. Thankfully Farrell was off-form with his kicking. Picking him ahead of Richie Gray backfired badly on this occasion. 4/10
Penalty magnet. The good work he did by puting his shirt on was lost when he gave away a 3 point penalty. 0/10


Ryan Wilson – Worked well in the line outs but was often found wanting in the contact areas. Showed heart and battled as best he could but looked fairly limited at this level. Can’t help but feel Strokosch may have offered more, not to mention Brown… 5/10
Played out of position and exposed horribly by Wood 1/10

David Denton – Took contact when better options were available a few times. Tireless effort from the young number eight. So much so that he was deemed spent 50 minutes into the action and subbed off. 6/10
Perhaps ineffective but at least he looked hungry 5/10


Chris Fusaro – Looked like the adrenaline of his first cap was taking its toll late in the first half but Scotlands better showing at the breakdown this week must be partly attributed to his groundwork. A good debut in a difficult game. Will hope for more opportunities in better times for the blue shirt of Scotland. 7/10
Cracking debut, the only player in Navy Blue whose stock went up a bit 7/10




Subs

Scott Lawson – Put Ford out of his misery early in the second period and almost immediately gave away two penalties in consecutives scrums. Did that scuttling thing he does when ball carrying, to not much effect.  4/10
Made a hash of the first lineout but things did improve. Was very upset with Hamilton when that said 1st lineout went awry 5/10


Alisdair Dickinson – Like his predecessor was stepped in midfield by Farrell but managed to recover. Part of a period of poor scrum work by Scotland but put in an honest, if limited, shift. 5/10
did better than grant but not by much 4/10


Geoff Cross – Came into things late. Got a good cheer. Wore a scrum cap. We like Geoff.  5/10
did better than Lowe 4/10


Johnnie Beattie – Entered the fray on 52 minutes to add some spark in attack.Succeeded in making things a bit more dynamic at the breakdown and was part of several good breaks late in the game. Should have started. 7/10
Again like Denton looked hungry 6/10


Chris Cusiter – A popular substitute in the 65th minute. Tried to speed things up amongst tired bodies but just couldn’t get his hands on it. Given the armband as compensation but was very much skippering a sinking ship. 6/10
did better than laidlaw 4/10


Duncan Taylor – Came on for Matt Scott with 7 minutes left. Left little impression. 5/10
meh 3/10


Max Evans – Came on for Seymour, tried his best to impose his speed on the game but ended up defending and rucking most of the time. The poor lad. 5/10
meh 3/10


Jonny Gray – Got 10 minutes at the end after everyone’s patience with Jim Hamilton wore out. 5/10meh, should start in Italy rather than that hooligan Hamilton 4/10

Imagine the headline

"Players revolt, play own style and tell Johnson to Waltz his Matilda back to where he came from - Results in record breaking victory over Italians"

we can dream eh?

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:Player ratings from scottishrugbyblog.co.uk:

Scotland v England Player Ratings

by Brodie Smithers

Stuart Hogg – A shrewd operator. Made good decisions and crucially showed that his kicking game has turned from a onetime weakness into a true strength of his game. One of the better performers in a turgid game. 7/10

Tommy Seymour – Brought in for his ‘aerial ability’ and proved his worth a few times from Scottish kick-offs. Caught the eye with a few line breaks but spent most of the afternoon fruitlessly chasing chip kicks into the corners. Subbed on 65 minutes. 6/10

Alex Dunbar – Very little chance to shine in the first half due to a deluge of defensive duties, which he performed faultlessly. Slowing down ball at rucks and leading the line with good speed. His try saving tackle on May was marred by a yellow card for not releasing. 7/10

Matt Scott – Showed a bit of invention, often in the middle of heavy traffic but got little ball from Weir. Had to step up when his midfield co-pilot was sin-binned and looked exhausted as a result. Taylor eventually relieved him from the coalface. 5/10

Sean Lamont –Gave away a stupid penalty in front of our posts in the first half. Worked tirelessly but his lack of gas was horribly exposed on several occasions when chasing down garry owens to Nowell. 5/10

Duncan Weir – I didn’t enjoy the tactical choice but his chip kicks to the corners were generally executed well. Solid in defence and made some telling tackles, for the second week running. A good genral game but didn’t set the heather on fire. 6/10

Greig Laidlaw – Slow ball, quick ball, slow ball, quick ball. Frustrating service to the little scrum half and he showed, in glimpses, what he can do with a good platform. Had a rare off day with the goal kicking and subsequently exposed the lack of other options in this department we have. 5/10

Ryan Grant – Achieved parity in the few scrums he had to deal with and generally showed up well in the loose. Lucky to get away with allowing Farrell through at the end of the first half. Shepards crook came out three minutes into the second half. Not his best game. 5/10

Ross Ford – Scotland are scrummaging with three props in the front row. Line outs improved though. Not enough to save him from an early substitution in the second half. 5/10

Moray Low – A couple of booming line breaks. Held his own in the scrum without dominating his opposite number. An all-round solid game from the big tighthead. 6/10

Tim Swinson – Fairly anonymous. Worked hard at the breakdown, smothered and stifled in defence and solid in the set pieces but failed to make a genuine impact or to catch the eye. Will need to show some of his summer form if he is to keep the jersey. 5/10

Jim Hamilton – A penalty machine and, at times, a total liability. The English pack made him look clumsy and we paid through the scoreboard. Thankfully Farrell was off-form with his kicking. Picking him ahead of Richie Gray backfired badly on this occasion. 4/10

Ryan Wilson – Worked well in the line outs but was often found wanting in the contact areas. Showed heart and battled as best he could but looked fairly limited at this level. Can’t help but feel Strokosch may have offered more, not to mention Brown… 5/10

David Denton – Took contact when better options were available a few times. Tireless effort from the young number eight. So much so that he was deemed spent 50 minutes into the action and subbed off. 6/10

Chris Fusaro – Looked like the adrenaline of his first cap was taking its toll late in the first half but Scotlands better showing at the breakdown this week must be partly attributed to his groundwork. A good debut in a difficult game. Will hope for more opportunities in better times for the blue shirt of Scotland. 7/10



Subs

Scott Lawson – Put Ford out of his misery early in the second period and almost immediately gave away two penalties in consecutives scrums. Did that scuttling thing he does when ball carrying, to not much effect.  4/10

Alisdair Dickinson – Like his predecessor was stepped in midfield by Farrell but managed to recover. Part of a period of poor scrum work by Scotland but put in an honest, if limited, shift. 5/10

Geoff Cross – Came into things late. Got a good cheer. Wore a scrum cap. We like Geoff.  5/10

Johnnie Beattie – Entered the fray on 52 minutes to add some spark in attack.Succeeded in making things a bit more dynamic at the breakdown and was part of several good breaks late in the game. Should have started. 7/10

Chris Cusiter – A popular substitute in the 65th minute. Tried to speed things up amongst tired bodies but just couldn’t get his hands on it. Given the armband as compensation but was very much skippering a sinking ship. 6/10

Duncan Taylor – Came on for Matt Scott with 7 minutes left. Left little impression. 5/10

Max Evans – Came on for Seymour, tried his best to impose his speed on the game but ended up defending and rucking most of the time. The poor lad. 5/10

Jonny Gray – Got 10 minutes at the end after everyone’s patience with Jim Hamilton wore out. 5/10

My word, we played very well then, as our players got 5 - 7's

Fantastic performance from Scotland, so proud

ss Ford – Scotland are scrummaging with three props in the front row. Line outs improved though. Not enough to save him from an early substitution in the second half. 5/10

LOL - Line outs improved - When he went off

Who is this Brodie Smithers and have they ever watched a game of rugby before??

RDW_Scotland wrote:Who is this Brodie Smithers and have they ever watched a game of rugby before??

Sounds like a law firm

Maybe it's FES's lot and they are getting ready to sue the SRU for false advertising. The claim is that the SRU are selling rugby tickets but when you rock up, the Scottish side don;t play any rugby!

On another note, the pre match stuff at Murrayfield has become worse than cringe worthy.

I'll list my gripes in no particular order.

1. The red hot chillie pipers, what is wrong with the massed pipes and drums from one of the hundreds of bands in the Local area? Instead we get Journey (who were never cool) played with pipes   

2. That countdown   

3. Excessive Pyros, perhaps if we spent less money on pyro and more money on better coaches we wouldn't be getting caned every time

4. The braveheart style guys with fire   

5. The silly version of Highland cathedral that plays the team onto the pitch. Lone piper back please.

We are an absolute laughing stock.

Got to agree with you there Radge, I think the Chilli Pipers have played before every game for the last 2 seasons and they play exactly the same stuff every time. They were good the first time, but we’ve had enough now.

I fear that the pipes and drums are maybe out of practicality – they take up too much room on the pitch maybe.

Nothing wrong with some pyrotechnics but the fireworks beforehand were pretty awful.

Also agree on Highland cathedral - the lone piper is very atmospheric, the stupid modern version is just rubbish.

My gripe is the anthem – I like the band cutting out for the 2nd verse but they shouldn’t do it every time, should be saved for special occasions (i.e. only England, a big SH team etc). There was absolutely no need to do it for the Japan game with 30000 people there for example!

Here, has anyone heard from FES? Is he ok?

tigertattie wrote:Here, has anyone heard from FES? Is he ok?

I have assumed that he is his second home in Lake Garda with a teenage supermodel of his choice and a cheeky Alsace pinot blanc to try and dull the pain.

I actually quite liked the count down....

Riskysports wrote:I actually quite liked the count down....

It's not exactly hogmany Risky. The count down for the guys attending the matches is like a countdown to switching on an electric chair. You know it's coming but there is nothing you can do about it.

George Carlin wrote:

tigertattie wrote:Here, has anyone heard from FES? Is he ok?

I have assumed that he is his second home in Lake Garda with a teenage supermodel of his choice and a cheeky Alsace pinot blanc to try and dull the pain.

  

Nothing could be further from the truth - sadly!

Agree with Radge on the pre-match nonsense. A proper pipe band or a lone piper would be far more atmospheric - the Chilli Pipers and all the naff pop music just makes me cringe.

I also think the flames are OTT these days, particularly given the state of the team. A couple of candles would be more appropriate.

Shiraz?

Agreed on pre-match antics. I said the exact same thing on perhaps paying some money for good coaches instead of pyrotechnics.

I want to see the team walk out to a silent, concentrated Murrayfield with one thing in mind: Victory. No noises, no cheers. Absolute deadly silence; because we don't deserve to speak until the other team is spoken to.

Strength in humility.

I'm late to the meeting but I am highland scot and I too am a Scotland fan.

I have been sitting at work all morning, in a room with no windows, contemplating whether there is any light out there. At all.

Saturday was shocking. I was gladly too drunk to remember too much detail, but was sober enough to know that I shouted a lot and that I certainly don't want to watch it again. Particularly not whilst spending a week working away based in a Travelodge.

I seem to remember Fusaro being OK, although SJ seems to have got it into his head that having a 7 will make the breakdown work. Wrong. There is no point in playing a 7 who can get down low and jackal for the ball if the rest of the team still stand off and let him get smashed rather than driving over and protecting him (or hiding his naughty antics from the eyes of the referee, who knows?). It is pretty telling that Dunbar and Lamont seemed to get through more Back row work than Denton or Wilson did. I didn't even notice Swinson was playing. I did notice Hamilton playing but wish he wasn't.

The team looked drained emotionally. They tried but did not have the mental state to perform. The players definitely have to take some flak, we can't put all the blame on SJ. SJ didn't force Schlong to kick the ball on the ground from an offside position. SJ didn't make Wilson pick the ball up in a blatantly offside position, and SJ never kicked the ball out on the full. It's also not SJ's fault that players are coming through to the supposedly elite level of the game unable to pull off elementary skills such as a show-and-go, a pass to the hands from the base of a ruck, or catching.

Where SJ falls down is on bringing everything together. The team was imbalanced, and there was no determination visible. He has surely lost the dressing room? His tactics were all wrong - why kick the ball to Brown all day - and I think the players know it. To stand up and say that the players were naive but the game plan was right is arrogant and decidedly lazy. The game plan is only the right one if the players pull it off on the day. We simply can't give the ball to the other team without chasing the kick and expect them to make mistakes. Particularly when we aren't piling into the breakdown as we need to. We are going to get thumped by Italy in 2 weeks, and prove to Tommasso Allan that he made the right decision and stayed the feick away from the SRU.

So for the Italy game I want to see Fusaro and Dunbar kept in, they were the best players in blue. Denton played well too but needs to learn when to take the contact and when to look for a pass. I wouldn't mind keeping him in though I think Beattie also did well off the bench. Ford needs a break, and should not be in the 23. I worry for the guy though, he's under so much pressure and clearly not in the right state of mind to handle it. Lawson is small and gives away silly penalties but can hit his jumpers, MacArthur is bigger but struggles with his throwing sometimes, Hall is not much better. Anyone else feel that Fraser Brown looked pretty decent for the A team vs the Saxons? I wouldn't advocate playing him given his lack of game time as a pro, but he looks like one who can potentially push on.
Matt Scott obviously was not match fit, he didn't really get much of a chance to show what he can do but he seemed to be off the pace a bit. His little pop pass for Seymour's break up the middle was nice though. I'd potentially be looking at playing Dunbar at 12, given that is his no1 position, and see what we can do at 13. Shelf may be a bit bare though with options of NDL (:O),   , or Fife. Is there anyone else??

I hear the calls for Hogg at 10 but what would that mean for the 15 shirt? No Tonks, Murchie or Maitland... Cuthbert?! I like Tom Brown but he too is a bit lacking in game time. Is Hugo Southwell still playing? Or did he just change his name to Jack Cuthbert? I think we have a few more viable options at 10 than at 15 just now, but if we're going to put Hogg at 10 then we have to let him develop there and decide that he is Hogg - 10 and nothing else.

Onto the matchday experience. I've almost had enough. I've seen the Red Hot Chilli Pipers plenty of times now, they play the same songs every match and it is now boring. If they're going to go with a "spectacle" then at least vary things a little? I'd much rather the spectacle was in the Rugby though. I've never been to an away match, do they persist with such tomfoolery in the other countries?

The famed Murrayfield atmosphere is carp. If the drone of 40,000 people chanting Scotland, Scotland as if someone's got a gun to their head counts as atmosphere then heaven help us. I can't help but think that this too is grounded in our lack of grass-roots rugby. With artificial constructs of regional teams, people don't go to rugby much as they don't identify. So many people have no idea about rugby culture, and the Scotland team lacks a grounded support. We surely have to envy the wendyballers a bit here, the Tartan Army make a lot of noise and travel en masse to represent our country wherever Scotland play. Having been to a couple of Scotland football matches, I have felt a lot more able to chant in that environment as there are established songs being sung by lots of drunks. It catches, and spreads. Try starting a chant in Murrayfield and you're lucky if it makes it 5 seats away.

Aimless rant over, my boss is wondering how I can be typing so much in excel, and thinks it must be this strange thing called productivity...

Glad yer back FES. With your silence I feared that you may have launched yourself off George IV bridge after the game on Sat!

highland_scot wrote:I'm late to the meeting but I am highland scot and I too am a Scotland fan.

I have been sitting at work all morning, in a room with no windows, contemplating whether there is any light out there. At all.

Saturday was shocking. I was gladly too drunk to remember too much detail, but was sober enough to know that I shouted a lot and that I certainly don't want to watch it again. Particularly not whilst spending a week working away based in a Travelodge.

I seem to remember Fusaro being OK, although SJ seems to have got it into his head that having a 7 will make the breakdown work. Wrong. There is no point in playing a 7 who can get down low and jackal for the ball if the rest of the team still stand off and let him get smashed rather than driving over and protecting him (or hiding his naughty antics from the eyes of the referee, who knows?). It is pretty telling that Dunbar and Lamont seemed to get through more Back row work than Denton or Wilson did. I didn't even notice Swinson was playing. I did notice Hamilton playing but wish he wasn't.

The team looked drained emotionally. They tried but did not have the mental state to perform. The players definitely have to take some flak, we can't put all the blame on SJ. SJ didn't force Schlong to kick the ball on the ground from an offside position. SJ didn't make Wilson pick the ball up in a blatantly offside position, and SJ never kicked the ball out on the full. It's also not SJ's fault that players are coming through to the supposedly elite level of the game unable to pull off elementary skills such as a show-and-go, a pass to the hands from the base of a ruck, or catching.

Where SJ falls down is on bringing everything together. The team was imbalanced, and there was no determination visible. He has surely lost the dressing room? His tactics were all wrong - why kick the ball to Brown all day - and I think the players know it. To stand up and say that the players were naive but the game plan was right is arrogant and decidedly lazy. The game plan is only the right one if the players pull it off on the day. We simply can't give the ball to the other team without chasing the kick and expect them to make mistakes. Particularly when we aren't piling into the breakdown as we need to. We are going to get thumped by Italy in 2 weeks, and prove to Tommasso Allan that he made the right decision and stayed the feick away from the SRU.

So for the Italy game I want to see Fusaro and Dunbar kept in, they were the best players in blue. Denton played well too but needs to learn when to take the contact and when to look for a pass. I wouldn't mind keeping him in though I think Beattie also did well off the bench. Ford needs a break, and should not be in the 23. I worry for the guy though, he's under so much pressure and clearly not in the right state of mind to handle it. Lawson is small and gives away silly penalties but can hit his jumpers, MacArthur is bigger but struggles with his throwing sometimes, Hall is not much better. Anyone else feel that Fraser Brown looked pretty decent for the A team vs the Saxons? I wouldn't advocate playing him given his lack of game time as a pro, but he looks like one who can potentially push on.
Matt Scott obviously was not match fit, he didn't really get much of a chance to show what he can do but he seemed to be off the pace a bit. His little pop pass for Seymour's break up the middle was nice though. I'd potentially be looking at playing Dunbar at 12, given that is his no1 position, and see what we can do at 13. Shelf may be a bit bare though with options of NDL (:O),   , or Fife. Is there anyone else??

I hear the calls for Hogg at 10 but what would that mean for the 15 shirt? No Tonks, Murchie or Maitland... Cuthbert?! I like Tom Brown but he too is a bit lacking in game time. Is Hugo Southwell still playing? Or did he just change his name to Jack Cuthbert? I think we have a few more viable options at 10 than at 15 just now, but if we're going to put Hogg at 10 then we have to let him develop there and decide that he is Hogg - 10 and nothing else.

Onto the matchday experience. I've almost had enough. I've seen the Red Hot Chilli Pipers plenty of times now, they play the same songs every match and it is now boring. If they're going to go with a "spectacle" then at least vary things a little? I'd much rather the spectacle was in the Rugby though. I've never been to an away match, do they persist with such tomfoolery in the other countries?

The famed Murrayfield atmosphere is carp. If the drone of 40,000 people chanting Scotland, Scotland as if someone's got a gun to their head counts as atmosphere then heaven help us. I can't help but think that this too is grounded in our lack of grass-roots rugby. With artificial constructs of regional teams, people don't go to rugby much as they don't identify. So many people have no idea about rugby culture, and the Scotland team lacks a grounded support. We surely have to envy the wendyballers a bit here, the Tartan Army make a lot of noise and travel en masse to represent our country wherever Scotland play. Having been to a couple of Scotland football matches, I have felt a lot more able to chant in that environment as there are established songs being sung by lots of drunks. It catches, and spreads. Try starting a chant in Murrayfield and you're lucky if it makes it 5 seats away.

Aimless rant over, my boss is wondering how I can be typing so much in excel, and thinks it must be this strange thing called productivity...

Agreed about Hogg, could be very good at 10 but I think he is going to be even better at 15. Plus at the moment there are slightly more options at 10 than 15 with Maitland being injured. Don't think 10 has really been a problem so far in the championship. We've not really had any ball to really see what Weir can do and any ball he has received has been really slow so I don't think putting Hogg at 10 would make much difference.

Hugo Southwell is at Wasps but hasn't played all season, done his hamstring and doesn't seem to be getting any better. Was speaking to him at Murrayfield on Saturday and sounds like he will be announcing his retirement at end of the season. Still can only jog and when he has tried to get up to full speed again the hamstring just goes.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:On another note, the pre match stuff at Murrayfield has become worse than cringe worthy.

I'll list my gripes in no particular order.

1. The red hot chillie pipers, what is wrong with the massed pipes and drums from one of the hundreds of bands in the Local area? Instead we get Journey (who were never cool) played with pipes   

2. That countdown   

3. Excessive Pyros, perhaps if we spent less money on pyro and more money on better coaches we wouldn't be getting caned every time

4. The braveheart style guys with fire   

5. The silly version of Highland cathedral that plays the team onto the pitch. Lone piper back please.

We are an absolute laughing stock.

Totally agree about the pre match stuff. I don't mind the pyros too much but the others i do especially not having the mass pipes and drums and the stupid version of highland catherdral.
When they first started playing highland catherdral it send shivers down your neck but now it is pretty poor and doesn't really add to the atmosphere at all.

Majestic83 wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:On another note, the pre match stuff at Murrayfield has become worse than cringe worthy.

I'll list my gripes in no particular order.

1. The red hot chillie pipers, what is wrong with the massed pipes and drums from one of the hundreds of bands in the Local area? Instead we get Journey (who were never cool) played with pipes   

2. That countdown   

3. Excessive Pyros, perhaps if we spent less money on pyro and more money on better coaches we wouldn't be getting caned every time

4. The braveheart style guys with fire   

5. The silly version of Highland cathedral that plays the team onto the pitch. Lone piper back please.

We are an absolute laughing stock.

Totally agree about the pre match stuff. I don't mind the pyros too much but the others i do especially not having the mass pipes and drums and the stupid version of highland catherdral.
When they first started playing highland catherdral it send shivers down your neck but now it is pretty poor and doesn't really add to the atmosphere at all.

I think the best way to give an example is if we use the rememberence weekend matches. The lone piper plays flowers of the forest during the silence. If we were to cut that off and put some rock music in I reckon everyone would be raging.

Highland Cathedral is a lone piper song, end of.

In fact, I'm gonna get my Tweet on and suggest the SRU goes back to the lone piper!

Once again it probably comes down to practicality - it is easier to play a CD through the tannoy and have some guys in kilts standing on top of the stadium pretending to be playing the bagpipes than have to mic up an actual bagpiper on top of the roof.

RDW_Scotland wrote:In fact, I'm gonna get my Tweet on and suggest the SRU goes back to the lone piper!

Once again it probably comes down to practicality - it is easier to play a CD through the tannoy and have some guys in kilts standing on top of the stadium pretending to be playing the bagpipes than have to mic up an actual bagpiper on top of the roof.

Ok use a recorded lone piper?

If the SRU can't solve basic problems like this it's no wonder we are getting nilled by England at home.

If we lose to Italy. Then for the France game a slow handclap would seem the most appropriate way to welcome the team onto the pitch...

If we lose to Italy and paly well I'll go to the France game.

If we lose to Italy but play like a sack of crap I'm gonna try to flog the tickets to some poor fool who doesn't go to much rugby.

'Yeah it will be a great game, I just can't make it any more....!'

I'd go just to watch France play!

Entertaining!

I've got tickets to the France game as well and will probably subject myself to further torture. I stayed relatively sober for the England game, which was a mistake I won't be repeating....

funnyExiledScot wrote:I've got tickets to the France game as well and will probably subject myself to further torture. I stayed relatively sober for the England game, which was a mistake I won't be repeating....

I think for foresight you can't beat Schiz giving away his tickets for the England game.
However he did post on the Saturday night that he had consoled himself (A) with too many pints of Deuchar's and (B) a toastie with nice French mushrooms and a tasty Norwegian Blue.
So...
(A) Is there such a thing as "too many"?
(B) "nice French mushrooms" I think someone may well be buying an MFL jersey in the close season. Also toasting a Norwegian Blue; now we now, definitively, this parrot is dead..it is deceased.it has joined the choir celestial etc.

(A) Not before or during a Scotland rugby international.

(B) I've long suspected that Schizoid was a closet MFL....

funnyExiledScot wrote:

(B) I've long suspected that Schizoid was a closet MFL....

You've lit the blue touchpaper now... don't come running to me.  

You fellas are taken liberties when my guard was down   

The team announcement is [planned for] tomorrow so prepare yourselves.

Nematode wrote:The team announcement is [planned for] tomorrow so prepare yourselves.

For the RWC Final or the next 6 Nations game?

Scratch wrote:

Nematode wrote:The team announcement is [planned for] tomorrow so prepare yourselves.

For the RWC Final or the next 6 Nations game?

  

It'll be the same team. We're building you see.....

funnyExiledScot wrote:

Scratch wrote:

Nematode wrote:The team announcement is [planned for] tomorrow so prepare yourselves.

For the RWC Final or the next 6 Nations game?

  

It'll be the same team. We're building you see.....

A bit gutted for scotland right now, actually think you have good players but it's Lions for Lambs at the moment

Johnsonball....

I think what is going to happen here is that Cuthbert is going to be on the bench and then at some stage in the match, particularly if things not going well, he will come on and Hoggy will move up to FH.

In some ways I don't think that it is actually that bad an idea to have a plan B, we certainly did not have one for the last two games. Our other options at FH are evaporating fast. Jacko has more or less ruled himself out, Tonks injured and the others too inexperienced or lacking game time. It is hard to see who else is going to come in as full back either if that is the plan and to be fair, Cuthbert has done okay with Edinburgh this year, despite what everyone thought when he signed. With our current injuries we are not exactly overflowing with options at full back either.

I guess if you are going to try this strategy then may as well try it against Italy. I don't really want to see Hogg start at 10, but would be happy to role the dice if the needs must.

I am actually much more concerned about Cusiter being injured. he played well on saturday and really deserved a start. Hopefully he will get over the injury and still play a part.

Seems strange to bring him in as late as now and bench him. He'll probably just be cover. Would indicate Hogg moving to 10. Would be good to see Hart getting some game time + = Hogg kicking.