Scotland Fans' 2014 6N of hell Post-mortem

First topic message reminder :

EDIT March 18th post-Scotland's capitulation to Wales

So, it's the end of the six nations. I have to say the intention of this early prediction thread was to calm all suppositions that Scotland might be anywhere near a threat this year. I have maintained that things look better with Cotter coming in (and hopefully not having to resort to 5th/6th choice wings, though that couldn't have been predicted).

Someone pointed out that in this last game if Wales had received the red card the scoreline would not have been the same in reverse. In fact I would be very worried that we still would have lost. To me it feels like it was an excuse to put the heads down/give Johnson the farewell he deserves.

Personally, I am lost for words. Not really sure where to go from here.

Anyone?

***

EDIT March 8th post-Scotland's capitulation to France.

Come hither one and all and we shall drink our sorrows away...

***
EDIT February 8th post-Scotland's capitulation to England & Ireland

I was right all along.

***

I got this in early because I did not want to see anybody from any nation suggest for any minute that Scotland has a chance of doing anything other than :

a) Cleaning their dirties in a smeg [White Wash]
b) Making lots of soup this winter [wooden spoon]
c) Scraping a win against Italy , in the dying seconds after a urine poor performance , which still might result in "b)" anyway.

No they did not beat Ireland.  
No they did not beat England.
No they did not beat France.  
No they did not beat Wales.  

They might *look* like they are going to win to any outsiders no privy to the Scotland set up, but I guarantee you no sensible Scottish fan will be expecting anything but a, b & c this season.

Why?

• We have an interim coach (for over a year!!!)who is more worried about what he says on camera than apparently coaching a sensible game plan
  
• Our breakdown is awful
  
• We have the psychological hardness of my nan - you don't know my nan but that's not good
  
• Our best players are either never played in position, not allowed to play in the XXIII at all, or are just awful at the moment. Not making the injury excuse because frankly it doesn't apply with exception of 2 key players that might be back in time. Happens in every squad
  
• etc, etc (feel free to add to this list)
  

So look, when we are compiling our 6N predictions this year, can we just for once all agree on something?

1. AN Other
2. AN Other
3. AN Other
4. AN Other
5. Maybe Scotland
6. Probably Scotland

Anyone mentions "dark horses" and "Scotland" in the same sentence without a negation clause in there somewhere (and you KNOW what I mean) I am getting our the knuckle dusters    

Blah blah blah. What is it with us Scots and constant introspection?

It's very simple really, we have a fraction of the registered players of the other nations. Even the Italians have almost double the players we do. It's a miracle we are so competitive. That doesn't mean the players should accept mediocrity, champions are made by striving for more - but it does mean we as fans need to recognise that we're already over performing massively.

That said, when we win...we enjoy it more than any other nation. They will never know what it feels like for us when we beat a top team because they expect it. They're spoilt and I for one wouldn't want to support any other country, despite family ties to England and Ireland.

Oh and as a comparison the USA have almost 3x more registered adult players than we do, yet you don't hear them complaining about not turning over England, the All Blacks and France!

Instead of the annual handwringing why don't we put that energy into getting out and coaching, recruiting and promoting our great sport in Scottish towns and cities?! With the dire state of football at the moment it's literally an open goal, we just need to stop talking and start doing something about it by taking responsibility for it ourselves.

I havent been worried about Wales playing Scotland for years.  

Played 10 won 9 over the last decade.  While in almost every game we get into the late 20's in terms of points scored.  It's the closest thing Wales has to a banker these days.

Still Andy Nicol will be backing Scotland for the Grand Slam,  I've always respected the guys one eyed fanaticism, in the face of overwhelming fact and common sense. Without fail he talks them up, and without fail they underachieve and fall flat on their faces.

Andy Nicol is a dreadful pundit. Such a shame that he seems to be our chosen ambassador on the BBC 6 Nations team. Chris Paterson is far more sensible.

Whilst we've run Wales close a couple of times in the last few years, I'm not surprised to hear views such as the one expressed by Shifty above. Until we start beating teams, we can't expect respect.

I'll bet the Irish don't have the same feeling that Scotland is a "banker", despite them being an excellent side. That's down to us actually beating them a couple of times in recent years. Until you beat sides they won't respect you, regardless of performance.

The side I really want to beat this year is France. It seems ages since we turned them over, and currently they are not a great side. Big chance at Murrayfield in 2014.

funnyExiledScot wrote:
I'll bet the Irish don't have the same feeling that Scotland is a "banker", despite them being an excellent side. That's down to us actually beating them a couple of times in recent years. Until you beat sides they won't respect you, regardless of performance.

Cant argue with that really. Ireland need a full strength side to beat Scotland these days.

GunsGerms wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:
I'll bet the Irish don't have the same feeling that Scotland is a "banker", despite them being an excellent side. That's down to us actually beating them a couple of times in recent years. Until you beat sides they won't respect you, regardless of performance.

Cant argue with that really. Ireland need a full strength side to beat Scotland these days.

I'm actually making my first trip to the Aviva for Ireland vs Scotland this coming 6 Nations. My only request is that you start Paddy Jackson and ask him to replicate his form from the kicking tee that rescued a win for Scotland at Murrayfield in 2013!

I've always liked Gavin Hastings myself. Nice guy and fair pundit.

funnyExiledScot wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:
I'll bet the Irish don't have the same feeling that Scotland is a "banker", despite them being an excellent side. That's down to us actually beating them a couple of times in recent years. Until you beat sides they won't respect you, regardless of performance.

Cant argue with that really. Ireland need a full strength side to beat Scotland these days.

I'm actually making my first trip to the Aviva for Ireland vs Scotland this coming 6 Nations. My only request is that you start Paddy Jackson and ask him to replicate his form from the kicking tee that rescued a win for Scotland at Murrayfield in 2013!

Ill be there too. Paddy's kicking has improved. He may well start and it wouldnt be a disaster if he did IMO.

I do rate Paddy Jackson (comfortably better than anyone we have at 10), but he did have a howler at Murrayfield this season (twice in fact, as he was instrumental to Edinburgh beating Ulster in the Rabo).

I'd expect Ireland to win in Dublin, particularly after the nature of that performance against the ABs when Ireland were outstanding. Ireland just have too much nous at the breakdown for us. Even in victory last season we were comprehensively trashed at the breakdown and barely had any possession. It was more a case of Ireland losing the game than Scotland winning it.

For us to compete against Ireland we need to look at our Croke Park win for inspiration. That day we threw bodies into the breakdown and carried with far more purpose and venom, epitomised by Beattie's try. We need to play a proper openside (with Barclay, Rennie, Fusaro and Grant we have plenty to choose from), a mobile front row (Low, Ford and Grant for me) and Swinson and Gray in the second row (i.e. a dynamic combination adept at rucking). We've also got to sort out body positions when carrying the ball. Both Denton and Beattie can be upright, and the Ireland choke tackle will deal with that every day of the week and twice on Sundays. O'Brien missing will be a boost.

We tend not to start well. but hopefully by the home games against England and France we'll be firing on all cylinders.

If we can take down a Tuilagi-free England at Murrayfield, then we have a chance at stringing 3 wins together. If we can't, then we'll be scrapping with the Azzuri for the stirring utensil.

For once, just once, I would like the lunacy of (a) the people who are in form playing, (b) specialists played in their positions and nowhere else and (c) players looking like they give a cr@p. If those three meandering streams join in one tributary, then the games will be worth watching from a Scotland perspective.

But in no conceivable respects are we Black Beauty.

Hmmm, I have a feeling that England might just get it together this 6 Nations. Even without Barritt and Tuilagi they can field Twelvetrees and Burrell, and the English pack is starting to really look dangerous. Is there a single Scottish forward who would displace any of the following:

1.Corbisiero 2.Hartley 3.Cole 4.Launchbury 5.Lawes 6.Wood 7.Robshaw 8.Vunipola.

You could argue for Kelly Brown ahead of Tom Wood, but I honestly think that's it. Sure, a "fully fit and on form" Ross Rennie could push Robshaw as a specialist 7, but Robshaw always seems to be fit and is pretty consistent, whereas Rennie hardly ever strings more than two games together. I know which one I'd rather have.

Our biggest chances to win, other than Italy, are Ireland first up in Dublin (without O'Brien plus you never know whether a team will have a slow start) and France at Murrayfield (because Saint-Andre so far has taken them backwards).

funnyExiledScot wrote:Hmmm, I have a feeling that England might just get it together this 6 Nations. Even without Barritt and Tuilagi they can field Twelvetrees and Burrell, and the English pack is starting to really look dangerous. Is there a single Scottish forward who would displace any of the following:

1.Corbisiero 2.Hartley 3.Cole 4.Launchbury 5.Lawes 6.Wood 7.Robshaw 8.Vunipola.

You could argue for Kelly Brown ahead of Tom Wood, but I honestly think that's it. Sure, a "fully fit and on form" Ross Rennie could push Robshaw as a specialist 7, but Robshaw always seems to be fit and is pretty consistent, whereas Rennie hardly ever strings more than two games together. I know which one I'd rather have.

Our biggest chances to win, other than Italy, are Ireland first up in Dublin (without O'Brien plus you never know whether a team will have a slow start) and France at Murrayfield (because Saint-Andre so far has taken them backwards).

Oh come, come FES. If Grant gathers his excrement together he can match Corbs (whom I feel is still living off the Lions 'halo effect' - I can feel the hype eminating from here), I would have Swinson instead of Launchbury and Gray the Elder instead of Lawes (who has only recently started playing well).  I would definitely argue for Brown instead of Wood and whilst Billy is a big lump at 8, he doesn't have Beattie's skillset. Not as cut and dried as all that, Private Frazer.

What your post tells me is that whilst the England pack is comfortably outperforming ours (that's just a fact based on the last couple of years, particularly the hammering we took at Twickenham last season), in fact you believe that on an individual by individual basis we are in fact better (you'd swap 5 of the England pack for our players, meaning only Cole, Hartley and Robshaw would make the Scotland pack).

Either we are the worst coached side in the world (or England the best), with top class players who just can't perform together, or you're wrong.....

funnyExiledScot wrote:What your post tells me is that whilst the England pack is comfortably outperforming ours (that's just a fact based on the last couple of years, particularly the hammering we took at Twickenham last season), in fact you believe that on an individual by individual basis we are in fact better (you'd swap 5 of the England pack for our players, meaning only Cole, Hartley and Robshaw would make the Scotland pack).

Either we are the worst coached side in the world (or England the best), with top class players who just can't perform together, or you're wrong.....

Sorry that my post misled you in that case. What I said (or tried to say, certainly) was that I don't think it is cut and dried that the England forwards are superior in every position as you seem to. Last year at Twickers was a bad day at the office but I don't agree that in the "last couple of years" we have been manshamed - in Feb 2012 at Murrayfield the score was 6-13 and it was a game we should have won, in the RWC in October 2011 at Eden Park we had the dominant pack in the first half before a couple of injuries saw that reversed in the second and in March 2011 at Twickers it was our lack of ability to score tries with the reasonable possession we had which killed us.

So I don't agree that the three choices in your final paragraph are the only options available to me. I think (and you probably do too) that we have not had the best players chosen, we have not played well and we have not been able to do anything with the possession that we have thanks to 10s who kick the ball away and a midfield pair that would not know a line break if it sidled up and bit them on the arse. Last year aside, our pack is not the reason that we have recently made a habit of losing to England.

In 2011 both teams were different. I'm talking about 2013, and the current England pack. The one that has competed strongly against the SH sides, destroyed us last year and took the last 6 Nations to the final game.

Your point about our team selection is a fair one though. We both agree that Tim Swinson is our best lock and yet hasn't been consistently selected, and our back row has lacked balance under Scott Johnson, who can't seem to choose between Brown and Strokosch and as such just picks them both. England meanwhile have been superbly selected in the pack (I think Rowntree is largely the guilty party for such competence, although the silly back row at the Millenium last 6 Nations being a clear blip), and have now settled on a very powerful and dynamic pack, with a well balance back row.

So yes, team selection plays a big part, but I still think man for man England have more consistent players. Richie Gray has the potential, but at what point in the last 12 months has he met that potential? Denton has been brilliant and anonymous in equal measure, and as good as Ryan Grant is, he lacks the power of Corbisiero.

Speaking of Grant, there's a really interesting snippet in the Lions team selection session on the behind the scenes video where Gatland mentions Ryan Grant and Rowntree just says "no". Gatland then says "we'll talk about that later". I may have misheard (I was well into a few large bottles of Innis & Gunn at the time) but it sounded like Rowntree really doesn't rate Ryan Grant at all, and for reasons they didn't want to go into on the DVD. I suppose they agree not to say negative things about players during that clearly carefully choreographed section of the DVD.

Euan Murray has been ruled out of the start of the 6N, with an achilles injury likely to sideline him for another 8 weeks.

Given that Cross has barely featured for Edinburgh all season we're starting to look a bit short in the tighthead department, and are only 1 or 2 injuries away from being desperate.

I suspect SJ is going to 'suggest' to Solomons that Cross needs to get some gametime over the next two games.

Big chance this for Murray Low to re-establish his international credentials. I thought his scrummaging was ok in the AIs, particularly given his lack of game time at tighthead for Glasgow.

The pro sides are letting Scotland down here. Both Low and Cross aren't getting enough time, although on the plus side their chances of getting injured ahead of the 6 Nations are slim.

Roddy Grant for the Six nations if Rennie doesn't get game time? How has Barclay been playing for the Scarlets?

Grant has been in the form of his life for Edinburgh and has arguably deserved MOTM for the past few games he's played in (earned it in the 1872 cup game), I reckon SJ should reward current form and cap him... away in... Ireland... er... scrap that idea!

Is it too early to start putting out XXIIIs for the Ireland match?

1. Grant
2. Ford
3. Low
4. Swinson
5. Gray
6. Brown
7. Barclay
8. Denton
9. Laidlaw
10. Jackson
11. Lamont
12. Scott
13. Dunbar
14. Maitland
15. Hogg

16. Dickinson
17. MacArthur
18. Welsh
19. Hamilton
20. Strokosch
21. Cusiter
22. Tonks
23. Bennett

Although it is by no means strong yet I am sensing a creeping optimism gathering in the Scotland camp here. Time to quash it out.

Scotland to look like they might beat Ireland at early doors, concede two daft penalties which Ireland run to score a converted try within 10 minutes. Another converted try before 20 by none other than O-Driscoll. Rest of the match Scotland do match Ireland but there's essentially no way back, because it is Scotland.

Final score 26-12.

Don't care about the XXIII really. Let's just get this over with and get our new coach in.

Johnnie Beattie has signed a 3 year deal with Castres, adding the their Scottish contingent.

On Castres, I read in an interview that Gray has played s lot for them this year and has been on decent form, so thought I'd watch the game.

I missed the first 20 minutes but from what I did see Castres hardly ever used him as a ball carrier - he spent all game hitting rucks.

Either way, he seems to be much happier at Castres than he was at sale, and that can only be a good thing!

If you missed the first 20, then you missed Richie scoring a very good try.

Pleased for JB Jnr although I would liked to have seen him at Tigers too, which is where I think a lot of people thought he was going. Still, joining the French champs is hardly a hardship posting.

Is anyone else very nervous about the Ireland game after Leinster's' excellen performance? And Munster look quite fearsome too.

Ireland have a good chance of winning the grand slam.

Our chances depend on how SJ picks - form or past. Form would have Beattie, Grant, Denton as the back row I'd think.

I’m a bit less worried about Ireland with O’Brian out, but still think they will be an intimidating prospect.  This will be their first game since the NZ too – they’ll want to make amends.

If I were selecting a Scotland match-day squad for tomorrow, it would probably look something like this -

1. Dickinson
2. Ford
3. Low
4. Swinson
5. R. Gray
6. Brown (c)
7. Barclay
8. Denton
9. Laidlaw
10. Jackson
11. SLamont
12. Dunbar
13. NDL
14. Maitland
15. Hogg

Bench - Grant, MacArthur, Welsh, Gilchrist, Beattie, Cusiter, Tonks, Fife

Captain_Sensible wrote:If I were selecting a Scotland match-day squad for tomorrow, it would probably look something like this -

1. Dickinson
2. Ford
3. Low
4. Swinson
5. R. Gray
6. Brown (c)
7. Barclay
8. Denton
9. Laidlaw
10. Jackson
11. SLamont
12. Dunbar
13. NDL
14. Maitland
15. Hogg

Bench - Grant, MacArthur, Welsh, Gilchrist, Beattie, Cusiter, Tonks, Fife

Oh no you didn't, girlfriend.   

On current form, Dougie Fife has a greater claim to the shirt at the moment if you're going East Coast Massive. I still think that 12. Scott 13. Dunbar is the immediate future. We have a lot of talent largely untested at international level. NDL would have to show an awful lot more in order to justify inclusion. We know what he can do. And importantly, what he can't.

I’m with GC on this one – I normally stick up for NDL but he was very poor on Saturday. Our standard argument is usually ‘but he’s playing well for Edinburgh’ – we can’t say that just now.

Matt Scott failed a late fitness test and was pulled out on Saturday – minor hamstring niggle. Assuming he will be fit for the Munster game, I’d be surprised if he’s picked to start. Either way he’s not going to have much gamtime before the 6N, so it will be a big call deciding whether to pick him. I’d much rather Dunbar than De Luca just now, but again that is not ideal as Dunbar has been playing 12 all season.

CS - agree with you re: likely team were we picking tomorrow.

Hopefully, before kick-off in Dublin, we'll managed to get Ryan Grant in some shape, plus Matt Scott back in the side (at 12).

The other position which is become interesting is the back row. The form 7 is probably Roddy Grant at the moment, and with Denton and Beattie both playing well, I wonder whether SJ will use the same backrow as we had against Australia, with Beattie at 6 and Denton at 8, and Brown (who is playing openside regularly for Sarries) at 7.

As a first principle I always tend towards a specialist openside, but I haven't seen Barclay play recently and Rennie is out. I think there's therefore a legitimate question as to whether Fusaro, Grant or Barclay would be better in that role than Brown. The benefit of Brown is that two form players, Denton and Beattie, get to start together. In terms of balance you still have some good breakdown skills in the pack, particularly with Swinson at lock, plus one of Dickinson or Grant at loosehead. Richie Gray has good workrate as well. Some tough decisions ahead to get the balance right.

At lock, I keep coming back to 4. Swinson 5. Gray with Msr Grand Jeem on the bench.

George Carlin wrote:

Captain_Sensible wrote:If I were selecting a Scotland match-day squad for tomorrow, it would probably look something like this -

1. Dickinson
2. Ford
3. Low
4. Swinson
5. R. Gray
6. Brown (c)
7. Barclay
8. Denton
9. Laidlaw
10. Jackson
11. SLamont
12. Dunbar
13. NDL
14. Maitland
15. Hogg

Bench - Grant, MacArthur, Welsh, Gilchrist, Beattie, Cusiter, Tonks, Fife

Oh no you didn't, girlfriend.   

On current form, Dougie Fife has a greater claim to the shirt at the moment if you're going East Coast Massive. I still think that 12. Scott 13. Dunbar is the immediate future. We have a lot of talent largely untested at international level. NDL would have to show an awful lot more in order to justify inclusion. We know what he can do. And importantly, what he can't.

I hear you, brother. If I had my druthers, the centre combo would be 12. Scott, 13. Dunbar. But, Scott hasn't played recently, Dunbaris doing well at 12 and what other 13s do we have that are playing regularly there?

George Carlin wrote:At lock, I keep coming back to 4. Swinson 5. Gray with Msr Grand Jeem on the bench.

Hard to ignore Gilchrist's form at the moment. Seems to have acquired a much harder edge this season.

As tough as it is on the ginger midget, I can’t see SJ experimenting with a brand new 7 so close to the world cup, considering KB pretty much played every game at 7 last season.

At most I think he might pick Barclay, who is playing regularly for the Scarlets, but I can’t see him capping a new 7 just now.

Rennie played 80 mins for Accies at the weekend (well, 70 – he got sinbinned for repeated ruck infringements – good lad!), but I get the impression they will keep him back from front line 6N action just now.

Gilchrist – much maligned by the great unwashed – has been on very good form this season and his really throwing himself about the pitch in attack and defence. He’s also taken on a lot of lineout responsibility – he’s in the top 5 for number of lineout takes in the HK this season. Can’t see even getting in the 23, but he won’t let anyone down if he is.

RDW_Scotland wrote:As tough as it is on the ginger midget, I can’t see SJ experimenting with a brand new 7 so close to the world cup, considering KB pretty much played every game at 7 last season.  

At most I think he might pick Barclay, who is playing regularly for the Scarlets, but I can’t see him capping a new 7 just now.

Rennie played 80 mins for Accies at the weekend (well, 70 – he got sinbinned for repeated ruck infringements – good lad!), but I get the impression they will keep him back from front line 6N action just now.

Gilchrist – much maligned by the great unwashed – has been on very good form this season and his really throwing himself about the pitch in attack and defence.  He’s also taken on a lot of lineout responsibility – he’s in the top 5 for number of lineout takes in the HK this season.  Can’t see even getting in the 23, but he won’t let anyone down if he is.

SJ really rates Gilchrist. I think he's good as good a shot as any of the second second row slot alongside Swinson, or the bench slot.

I also think that we need to accept that SJ isn’t going to drop Strokosh or Hamillton any time soon. I think we’ve got better options, unless we want to play up the jumper stuff, but I’d be surprised if those names aren’t on the teamsheet.

Captain_Sensible wrote:

George Carlin wrote:At lock, I keep coming back to 4. Swinson 5. Gray with Msr Grand Jeem on the bench.

Hard to ignore Gilchrist's form at the moment. Seems to have acquired a much harder edge this season.

Agreed - it's very hard to ignore him but lock is the one position where we're stacked for talent - Swinson, Gray R, Gray J, Gilchrist, Hamilton, the President of the Ruck Inspectorate and Kieren Low (if you're SJ). SJ really likes Gilchrist and Grandpappy clearly does too, so it bodes well for him in the future. He's only a bairn - genuine 120kg players are not common. Nobody's denying he's quite the unit.

George Carlin wrote:genuine 120kg players are not common. Nobody's denying he's quite the unit.

You calling him a fatty?

Swinson and Gray to start, Gilchrist on the bench. That would be my call.

Scotland A would have Hamilton and Jonny Gray starting, and Tom Ryder on the bench.

The days of forensic ruck inspection and shouting "come on lads" "leadership" are over.

For those who made the trip to Exter, how did the Glasgow players get on? Shlong sounds like he had a stormer - is there any sign of Hogg coming back to form?

I only read the match reports after the game, but all the commentators were talking up Sean Lamont. Pleased for him. He puts in a massive effort each and every time he wears the jersey, and whilst he really does need more pace and accelaration to be a top international winger, in the absence of Visser he's sure to wear the 11 jersey against Ireland.

As an aside, I thought Tom Brown played well on Saturday. Not just scoring the try, but he seemed to beat the first man every time he got the ball. He looked really sharp. He clearly needs a few more games to consolidate that form, but given his ability to play both wing and 15 (seemingly to a good standard) he could find his way into the Scotland squad, or at least be on the short list as cover.

The starting Glasgow front row struggled in the first half, altho it improved as the game wore on and the the replacements arrived - lineout was a little wobbly, but the front row union seemed to do a fair bit of work in the loose (tackling and carrying) - so that covers Grant, Hall, Kalman, Welsh and MacArthur (Jerry Yaya not SQ). In the second row, I thought Nakarawa was the pick of the three, but then Swinson did a lot of rucking work and Ryder galloped around the paddock and made plenty of tackles. In the backrow, Strauss went off early, but Wilson was an able replacement, Ginger Boab was the pick of the bunch for me, and Fusaro was his usual fiesty self in an excellent tussle with Jim Scaysbrook (honours even, I reckon); Jedi was his usual reliable self.

Henry didn't have too many wild passes which is always a plus, but didn't really threaten, and I thought Rhubarb and wee Duncy both did a decent job of controlling the game when they came on. Exe did send a lot of runners through the midfield, so Dunbar and McGuff were kept busy in their channels, both missing a couple, but Dunbar is oozing class these days (altho I remain convinced that he's a 12 not a 13). Maitland and Schlong did what good wingers do, and Schlong added a cherry by going looking for the ball. Hoggy defo has his mojo back which is great news for all.

funnyExiledScot wrote:Swinson and Gray to start, Gilchrist on the bench. That would be my call.

Scotland A would have Hamilton and Jonny Gray starting, and Tom Ryder on the bench.

The days of forensic ruck inspection and shouting "come on lads" "leadership" are over.

No point playing Hamilton in the A's, that would be a kick in the teeth for a 50 cap forward and would hardly motivate him. The A's need to be for those on the fringes of the senior side, especially the up and coming players. As far as second row's go I would probably still include Jonny Gray and Gilchrist in that category. The other lock currently putting down the marker is Atkins, who is putting in some good shifts. Ryder would also be in the squad as a very dependable back up who is probably never going to quite make it at full international level but would not be my choice to play if evry one was fit.

With the World Cup coming up, the A team should be the next best 23 players who will be available to selection at the World Cup. I don't care how many caps they have.

What I'm saying is that Jim Hamilton is 4th in the pecking order of second rows, behind Richie Gray, Tim Swinson and Grant Gilchrist, so I'm picking him to partner Jonny Gray in the second row for Scotland A.

It also means that those up and coming players who make it into the Scotland A squad based on form will have the best possible chance of showing what they can do.

Potential A team (obviously dependent on Scotland selection):

1 Welsh
2 Hall/Lawson
3 Kalman
4 Gilchrist
5 Gray jnr
6 Harley
7 Grant
8 Wilson
9 Pyrgos
10 Tonks
11 Brown
12 Taylor
13 Messiah
14 Fife
15 Cuthbert

Pretty decent team, but we're starting to run out of tighteads and 12s!

Is Scott Lawson out of the reckoning for Hooker now?
Whilst the falcons have stuttered due to our tactics / backs, the front row and pack in general have been very good.

Lawson has improved our lineout immeasurably and has hit all the coalface stuff physically aswell?

Nice to see Swinson held in such high regard by you guys...big favorite of ours at KP...interesting debate Swinson v Launchbury. Wouldnt like to decide on that one.

Swinson has been huge for Glasgow, and the comparison with Launchbury is interesting. Neither are the biggest, but are both compact players with huge workrates. Quite similar actually.

Swinson also adds balance to the pack in the event we do without an out and out openside specialist, in very much the same way as Launchbury with England. Both have played 6 from time to time in their careers and both are adept at the breakdown.

When Edinburgh face Glasgow, Swinson is one of the first names I'd want to score from the teamsheet.

Along with Brown as captain, Swinson is, for me, the first name on the teamsheet when it comes to Scotland.

RDW_Scotland wrote:Potential A team (obviously dependent on Scotland selection):

1 Welsh
2 Hall/Lawson
3 Kalman
4 Gilchrist
5 Gray jnr
6 Harley
7 Grant
8 Wilson
9 Pyrgos
10 Tonks
11 Brown
12 Taylor
13 Messiah
14 Fife
15 Cuthbert

Pretty decent team, but we're starting to run out of tighteads and 12s!

I don't think that team will be far away and I will stick to my guns and say Hamilton won't be in it!

I think Tonks may bench for the full team and I fancy Heathcote to play standoff. I wonder about those 2 London Irish boys who were in the squad last time. I am sure they will be floating around the A squad somewhere. Kennedy and SHC may be in the reckoning for the scrum half position as well, they are going to be the players for the future , not Pyrgos.

I think Bennett will start off in the A's, due to his missed debut in the autumn and his recent lack of game time but there is still a place to play for at OC in the full team that no one currently is really putting their hand up for. It is there for him if he really wants it!

BigGee wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:Potential A team (obviously dependent on Scotland selection):

1 Welsh
2 Hall/Lawson
3 Kalman
4 Gilchrist
5 Gray jnr
6 Harley
7 Grant
8 Wilson
9 Pyrgos
10 Tonks
11 Brown
12 Taylor
13 Messiah
14 Fife
15 Cuthbert

Pretty decent team, but we're starting to run out of tighteads and 12s!

I don't think that team will be far away and I will stick to my guns and say Hamilton won't be in it!

I think Tonks may bench for the full team and I fancy Heathcote to play standoff. I wonder about those 2 London Irish boys who were in the squad last time. I am sure they will be floating around the A squad somewhere. Kennedy and SHC may be in the reckoning for the scrum half position as well, they are going to be the players for the future , not Pyrgos.

I think Bennett will start off in the A's, due to his missed debut in the autumn and his recent lack of game time but there is still a place to play for at OC in the full team that no one currently is really putting their hand up for. It is there for him if he really wants it!

I think the management will want to pair up Scott and Dunbar in the centres as soon as possible. Bennett will have to fight very hard for a look in.

Captain_Sensible wrote:

BigGee wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:Potential A team (obviously dependent on Scotland selection):

1 Welsh
2 Hall/Lawson
3 Kalman
4 Gilchrist
5 Gray jnr
6 Harley
7 Grant
8 Wilson
9 Pyrgos
10 Tonks
11 Brown
12 Taylor
13 Messiah
14 Fife
15 Cuthbert

Pretty decent team, but we're starting to run out of tighteads and 12s!

I don't think that team will be far away and I will stick to my guns and say Hamilton won't be in it!

I think Tonks may bench for the full team and I fancy Heathcote to play standoff. I wonder about those 2 London Irish boys who were in the squad last time. I am sure they will be floating around the A squad somewhere. Kennedy and SHC may be in the reckoning for the scrum half position as well, they are going to be the players for the future , not Pyrgos.

I think Bennett will start off in the A's, due to his missed debut in the autumn and his recent lack of game time but there is still a place to play for at OC in the full team that no one currently is really putting their hand up for. It is there for him if he really wants it!

I think the management will want to pair up Scott and Dunbar in the centres as soon as possible. Bennett will have to fight very hard for a look in.

I guess that is how it should be.

Dunbar has not really proved himself at international level either and while he can play both, I think he is a better IC. One good game in the A's, just like Hogg a couple of years ago could be all it takes. Look what happened to him after that. It is all to play for!

Genuine competition in these positions is not something we are used to. It can only be to Scotland's benefit.