Aviva Premiership Round Ten

First topic message reminder :

Sale Sharks vs London Irish - AJ Bell Stadium
Bath Rugby vs Harlequins - Recreation Ground
Exeter Chiefs vs Newcastle Falcons - Sandy Park
London Wasps vs Northampton Saints - Adams Park
Saracens vs Leicester Tigers - Allianz Park
Gloucester Rugby vs Worcester Warriors - Kingsholm

Home wins all round? Clash of the weekend between Sarries & Tiggers, or between Bath & Quins? Can Wuss win a game?

Sam Bosch wasn't playing - pulled out with an illness. It was Tim Streather.

I think the Saracens attack has benefited from Kevin Sorrell's influence which is seeping through. Far more attacking than when Farrell Sr was at the club.

I am a big fan of Borthwick unsurprisingly. If he was at your club you would too - excellent player and captain.

Sometimes heavy losses can be illuminating even if they feel painful at the time. Plus in the grand scheme of things - with the playoff system and the HC taking priority it's less substantial a loss, plus the absent players too.

That's what I felt when we got hammered by Saints.

I was at Adams Park yesterday. I was surprised how little energy and emotion Saints brought to the match. Wasps were clearly more energised, especially in the second half, and were generally more aggressive throughout. Seemed to me like a completely different team than the one which played Leinster last week. Wasps could have, or probably should have, won. On the other hand, good teams find ways to win when not playing great. Saints did that yesterday.

Saints did have another possible try denied by the TMO for being held up. I have never seen a team have so many tries denied for the ball held up. Seems like at least once per match. On the plus side it shows Saints are attacking enough to get over the line. If they keep it up, the tries will come.

Streather is a quality player, Notts midfield is lost without him and Arlidge. I came in just in time for kick off so missed the pre game announcements and could only hear bits of the commentary.

The attacking play from Sarries isn't particularly creative but it is a merciless tide. The support play and organisation is fantastic. If Sorrell is responsible for that he deserves a lot of credit.

BTW there are no excuses. I may think Barnes blundered through the game but Tigers were abject throughout and easily outclassed by Sarries. Paul Burke should have some serious questions to answer as to why the Tigers backline cannot reform into a cohesive defensive line.

Balshaws comments about England selection are laughably poor.

Has he slated a Saracens player?

beshocked wrote:Balshaws comments about England selection are laughably poor.

I consider him quite an expert on bad selections for England after all the experience he had in that area

What did butter fingers have to say?

Well that game was dire! If Wuss can't beat a team playing that badly then they must surely be for the drop. Please can we just end the season now? I really don't need my character built anymore.

Agree, you did not look very good. I still have to think you are better than this.
Worcester are done now, if not before. Shame.

Just watched the highlights. Sarries looked excellent. The other games were relatively poor. Hard to see how Wasps couldn't beat Saints. And though we didn't hugely deserve it and it would only have been the LBP, how the Frak could the referee believe Quins' clear try, visibly grounded over the line, wasn't a try?'

doctor_grey wrote:Agree, you did not look very good.  I still have to think you are better than this.  
Worcester are done now, if not before.  Shame.

I sincerely hope so. It is rather ironic that our early season form was due to the forwards not providing any platform, now the last 2 games we've had the dominant pack and the backs have been woeful. The Burns saga and our other FH being injured hasn't helped, but hopefully we shall soon click, but there simply isn't any chance of a top 6 finish now unless something miraculous happens!

HKC didn't even know you had a fly half other than Burns!

Bathite he hasn't slated a Sarries player but you can tell he doesn't rate any of them.

Balshaw said that he wants Ford to start vs France first game. You might agree with Balshaw.

I think it's a big risk -not against Ford being on the bench then getting a start against Scotland though.

Balshaw was on the hype bandwagon - wanting to see more of Nowell,Cipriani,May etc. Any back but a Sarries one basically. Of course it's bias on my part but I really do feel our backs aren't as bad as made out. Been pleased with the way in particular Goode and Ashton have responded to criticism.

Not against seeing May, feel that Nowell is still too inexperienced, Cipriani could a back up option behind Farrell and Ford.

HongKongCherry wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:Agree, you did not look very good.  I still have to think you are better than this.  
Worcester are done now, if not before.  Shame.

I sincerely hope so.  It is rather ironic that our early season form was due to the forwards not providing any platform, now the last 2 games we've had the dominant pack and the backs have been woeful.  The Burns saga and our other FH being injured hasn't helped, but hopefully we shall soon click, but there simply isn't any chance of a top 6 finish now unless something miraculous happens!

No offence intended, but your team is the big weird one for this season.  We are talking about a team with a number of players being on the England or Saxons short list.  So the talent level can't be so bad and misjudged by so many people (OK it is possible, but highly unlikely).  There is something missing, clearly.  Is Nigel Davies in any trouble?  Gloucester is still the only blemish on my Saints record.  Everyone remembers Gloucester were fortunate to win because the referees missed calls at the end.  But everyone forgets Saints had just scored and, in turn, were fortunate to get that score.  I had put that Saints loss down as a win Gloucester deserved.  And based on that match, Gloucester seemed pretty good and dangerous, not like the team we saw on Sunday.

beshocked wrote:HKC didn't even know you had a fly half other than Burns!

Bathite he hasn't slated a Sarries player but you can tell he doesn't rate any of them.

Balshaw said that he wants Ford to start vs France first game. You might agree with Balshaw.

I think it's a big risk -not against Ford being on the bench then getting a start against Scotland though.

Balshaw was on the hype bandwagon - wanting to see more of Nowell,Cipriani,May etc. Any back but a Sarries one basically. Of course it's bias on my part but I really do feel our backs aren't as bad as made out. Been pleased with the way in particular Goode and Ashton have responded to criticism.

Not against seeing May, feel that Nowell is still too inexperienced, Cipriani could a back up option behind Farrell and Ford.

Last things first:  Cipriani should not be allowed near the EPS until he plays good solid Rugby for a full season, with no off-pitch nonsense.  He needs to prove this to us.  This comment is serious.

To Balshaw:  Who is Balshaw and/or what is he doing that we now value his opinion so much we are discussing it?  Not attacking him, but why now?
I would have thought if he was asked to offer an opinion, he would fumble the answer    
Or he would dimply take it the wrong way    
Or pass on the answer, but the pass would be to no one    

Note about the author:  Emoticons are rarely, if ever, employed by this author.  In this particular case, they are only used to emphasise the author's weak attempts at humour.  They are not intended to besmirch any particular individual, living or dead.  Nor are they utilised for commercial gain.  No unauthroised use of these emoticons in context of the author are allowed under UK and International treaties.

Note by the author:  I only used the emoticons because it is the holiday season.  Posted below, here is a Christmas present because I love you all.  .....well maybe not all you guys, but most.  This Christmas present is an audio file which contains language some people might find distasteful and scatological.  It is not for the children and has no redeeming societal value.  On the other hand, it does strike a chord after the clock strikes 12.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YyKrToEgtc

Well what a horrible weekend for rugby! (unless you're a Sarries fan)

And how could the ref not award that try for us?!

beshocked wrote:HKC didn't even know you had a fly half other than Burns!

Ryan Mills is another 10/12 in the mold of 36, but we also have Tim Taylor, Jonny Bentley and Billy Burns. Pretty much as you're suggesting, we're now suffering the consequences of not giving any other 10 game time.

doctor_grey wrote:

HongKongCherry wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:Agree, you did not look very good.  I still have to think you are better than this.  
Worcester are done now, if not before.  Shame.

I sincerely hope so.  It is rather ironic that our early season form was due to the forwards not providing any platform, now the last 2 games we've had the dominant pack and the backs have been woeful.  The Burns saga and our other FH being injured hasn't helped, but hopefully we shall soon click, but there simply isn't any chance of a top 6 finish now unless something miraculous happens!

No offence intended, but your team is the big weird one for this season.  We are talking about a team with a number of players being on the England or Saxons short list.  So the talent level can't be so bad and misjudged by so many people (OK it is possible, but highly unlikely).  There is something missing, clearly.  Is Nigel Davies in any trouble?  Gloucester is still the only blemish on my Saints record.  Everyone remembers Gloucester were fortunate to win because the referees missed calls at the end.  But everyone forgets Saints had just scored and, in turn, were fortunate to get that score.  I had put that Saints loss down as a win Gloucester deserved.  And based on that match, Gloucester seemed pretty good and dangerous, not like the team we saw on Sunday.

Absolutely no offence taken and if anything I think your summary is too gentle! I can't see Davies being in any trouble as he was installed with a long term plan and for me it was always going to be his 3rd year (next season) which was key, as up until that point the squad was largely that of Redpath and not his. He does need to take responsibility for some of this season's form as he has probably rotated too much; nevertheless he cannot be responsible for the dreadful mistakes so many players are making. As you rightly point out our performance against Saints was half decent, but it has been the one bright point in a very poor season. Far too many players are performing well under par. I am hoping that whilst the backs have been poor in the last 2 games the improvement in the forwards will start to see us climb the table, but there is no doubt this season is a total write off and we should focus on blooding players and getting ready for next season.

HKC you'll still want to finish top6 surely won't you? (if that matters next season)

yappysnap wrote:HKC you'll still want to finish top6 surely won't you? (if that matters next season)

I would love us to finish in the top 6, but we're simply not good enough at present to achieve that