Qatar/Brisbane/Chennai

First topic message reminder :

Finally, the wait is over.  The new tennis season is starting tomorrow in Brisbane, with Qatar and Chennai joining in on Monday.

Djokovic will not play until Melbourne, but Rafa, David and Andy are all in action in Qatar.  Other notables include Berdych, Davydenko, Gasquet, Gulbis and Monfils.

In Brisbane, Federer is the No 1 seed (he should enjoy it, there may not be many more tournaments like that).  Overall, the field is much weaker than in Qatar, with Nishikori seeded at No 2 and Simon at No 3.  Still, there are some interesting players to watch.  The field includes Grigorov, Duckworth and Kyrgios, as well as Cilic.

Chennai has the weakest field, with Wawrinka and Youzhny seeded at #1 and #2.  Vasek Pospisil (an ethnic Czech from Canada) and Jiri Vesely (an ethnic Czech from the Czech Republic) being the two youngsters to watch there.

Danny_1982 wrote:^^ I remember watching a documentary with the Murray team last year in which his fitness trainer said his acceleration has been measured and is as good as Usain Bolt! Some statement that.

Novak's Mum think's he's pretty fast too. She thinks he would leave Bolt at the starting blocks  

Yes it was Jez Green that somewhere said Murray can run sub-11s in 100m...but it's his first 20m that's particularly exceptional. He makes Murray run 10 x 400m sprints with 85 secs recovery in between   

Novak's Mum thinks Murray is as fast as Bolt too? I'm surprised she has an opinion on it.

Mind you Novak's parents can be outspoken. Didn't they say slate Rafa for being childish and immature for wanting to be friends with Novak while he was beating him, but then not speaking to him when Novak started beating him.

Or is my memory failing me?

Danny_. The point was self boasting means little and it is easy to be outspoken. I have never heard how fast, strong or amazing other players are in training and if their coaches started boasting I would take it with a pinch of salt. More than that I would snigger a bit...

Loved it when Fed told Novak's mum (and dad) to shut up!

^ Ha ha! So did I. Sometimes I can't believe it really happened. And the really funny thing is that they did.

2014-01-09

hawkeye wrote:Danny_. The point was self boasting means little and it is easy to be outspoken. I have never heard how fast, strong or amazing other players are in training'...

You don't read much about tennis, do you?

^ OK. Show me some quotes  

It's not hard to find details of Borg's resting heartrate, Lendl's fitness program, Agassi's cardio-vascular measurements when he was in his 30s (fitter than ever at 33, so he claimed), Federer's regime with Paganini (is his name Paganini? Pagliacci?) and you can find fitness videos of most of the top players on youtube.

If you read the full Jez Green article, anyone who is in any way objective and not a hopelessly deluded Murray-hater will not interpret it as 'boasting'.

I like the Federer one to Novak's parents too. Oh how I wish the top of the game was as spiky as that on a regular basis.

Unfortunately branding is too important to be perceived as a bad boy nowadays. Even if players hate each other they're likely to wax lyrical about each other anyway.

There was a hint of animosity between Rog and Novak, and between Rog and Murray early on. Mostly died down though, unfortunately.

lydian wrote:Yes it was Jez Green that somewhere said Murray can run sub-11s in 100m...but it's his first 20m that's particularly exceptional. He makes Murray run 10 x 400m sprints with 85 secs recovery in between   

Pretty standard track workout for a distance runner, lydian my last track workout of the summer was 16 x 400m off 70 seconds. Absolutely vicious. Still, that's impressive for someone who isn't a dedicated runner, per se! Though he does, of course, run a fair bit on court...

I'm highly impressed Silver   

I tacitly decided not to mention that I was trundling around at the pace of an oil tanker with the handbrake on

There are some great quotes in the Murray "autobiography" where he comments about court speed and has a less-than-subtle dig at Federer. I'll try and dig them out when I've finished reading it.

I bought that for my son too, haven't read it myself yet but now you mention that I may need to have a dig

Yeah, yeah Silver   

lydian wrote:

LuvSports! wrote:1) I am not a mini-Tenez. I have my own thoughts thanks!
2) You said that cannot compare talent itself but then say how is dimitrov more talented than nadal or djokovic.

I have this view across all sports. Just because you win at the top, I don't think makes you the most talented.

I know LS, just pulling yer leg!

You can take it as a compliment anyway

If you read my post I was merely asking you why you felt Dimi was more talented than the top 4...

It strikes me you only judging talent by ball striking ability, isn't that a little short-sighted?

Unlike 'knowledgeable' posters from other forums who witter on about what constitutes talent like its fact from the beauty of their armchairs I work with some of UKs top juniors so have a pretty good idea what needs to stand out in those who may go on to become professional down the track.

So, a question for you....what raw 'talent' do you think National Tennis Associations are looking out for in boys say under 9 in formal Talent ID schemes? (from these by & large will be the boys who stand out at 18)

I am no way capable of answering that last question, so I will wave the white flag there .
I post this expecting to be ripped apart.
Dimi imo is more talented as I believe having a shbh requires better timing and is a more difficult skill to execute, especially in these dhbh friendly days where the ball bounces much higher than the 90's for instance.
Ball striking as well but also I feel his forecourt game is superior to the top 3 perhaps bar nadal. Lendl himself said something along the lines of Murray couldn't live with Dimi for close to a set (in their Brisbane and IW's meetings) and just had to wait until he blew himself out or his level dropped.

I just feel the others without their incredible physiques (I feel there are so many players who have far better attacking games than them) they wouldn't be nearly as successful.
For instance theo walcott imo can be a bit brainless and without his speed, he wouldn't have made it to Arsenal. Take away his speed and you have an average player. These players should be commended for their hardwork and ascetic, disciplined fitness regimes but for me that isn't talent as much.

It's more something I see and feel. Wawrinka was running djokovic ragged in their aus match last year. What kept him in was his superior fitness, retrieving and NOT his shot making ability, where stan was far superior.
In so many of their matches the current top 4 will have much fewer UE's than their opponent and less winners as well.
They play with less margin for error, stand further away from the baseline and try to outlast their opponent. It's smart tennis but if they didn't have this fantastic court coverage and wall like defence, I cannot see them being nearly as successful.
I don't care that you don't agree with me, but that is my view. I expect a lot of     but that is MY honest opinion.

   

Just so you're not disappointed.

I think the top players athletic ability does separate them, but I actually think it's more what they can actually produce when on the defensive that separates them more.

Roger is a bit different to the other 3, he's the greatest attacking player ever, as well as being a tremendous mover and great athlete... But what stands out for me with the other 3 top guys is how from far corners of the court, on the stretch, looking like they're just trying to get a racquet to the ball, they can find a winner.

Other players can't do that. Hewitt maybe (though more yesteryear) but other players simply lose a lot of points on the defensive, those 3 win them. That's the biggest difference to me, and whilst being athletic and powerful plays a part in getting them there, it's skill, vision, anticipation and that finds the ridiculous angles that these guys do one they are there.

Cheers LS, I can't give that the time of a decent reply right now...am up early due to business travel. But will say this, when you say take away X's speed and they're average...we could also say take away X's shot making and they're average.

Speed, athleticism and agility are THE key attributes of a tennis player. It's what all talent schemes look out for. Sure they have to have good hand-eye but you take it that most have that when highly athletically capable. We under appreciate the qualities of movement, particularly the top guys who move like no others. It's not just training & fitness, they have the inbuilt genetics to be fast & agile...you cant turn a 14s 100m runner into an 11s one. Djokovic, Murray and Nadal are physically blessed make no mistake, and its an absolute key part of being a top tennis player, just as much as being a great ball striker. Perhaps more so actually. Tennis is physical...it's a large court these guys move around on. Agility is vital.

Finally, for now...why do you think it takes more talent to hit a SHBh than DHBH? Sampras played with a DHBH until he was 16...did he suddenly become more talented when he decided to switch to SHBH to allow him to get to the net quicker? How about an understanding that a DHBH is nothing like a SHBH, that's its actually a left handed forehand...so any player with world class DHBH is actually incredibly ambidextrous. The timing required using 2 hands is no less difficult than with 1....indeed you have 2 hands competing for the stroke given the left hand for a right handed player is less dominant yet needs to be the "forehand" on the shot. Another litmus test for BHs is the DTL ripper. How many truly world class DTL DHBHs do you know out of all the ones played? How many SHBHs? I'd actually say it was a relatively similar number...maybe 5-6 for each.

Dimi is a very nice ball striker and athletically gifted but his minute footwork isn't as good as the top 3 in my opinion. The problem with him too is that he's not as physically gifted in other ways, his innate endurance is much lower IMO, his mental strength is certainly lower too. All key attributes in making a top pro player. That's all for now.

Yep Danny, for example there is no way Dimi can hit the ridiculous winners that Nadal can do when flat out on the run right into the corners...if that isn't amazing timing and shot making I don't know what is. Like that half-volley FH winner at 95mph he hit from a ridiculously hard baseline FH from Monfils at Qatar last week.
The top guys just have that something extra movement-wise, something extra physically, something extra mentally and an insane desire to win. But at its heart the best are ridiculously gifted athletes. It's what talent programmes look for the world over.

Murray v Hewitt at Kooyong tonight. Only an exo but good practice for both.

lydian wrote:Yes it was Jez Green that somewhere said Murray can run sub-11s in 100m...but it's his first 20m that's particularly exceptional. He makes Murray run 10 x 400m sprints with 85 secs recovery in between   

That's pretty normal interval training though, 85 secs is even a tad generous IMO, should not be getting that much more off time than on time

http://www.tennis.com/pro-game/2014/01/surface-matter/50217/#.UtJ2tX8gGSM

Nice article from Tignor touching on court speed changes (as discussed above). Someone has also attached in the comments a link to the 2003/2008 Federer serve speed comparison. That did help me remember why I was a bit suspicious of it - the 2008 serve appears to land plumb on the line which might explain why it "checks" when it hits the ground. One would hope whoever put it together at the bbc might have chosen two serves that hit the main court surface but maybe not!