WRU statement vs RRW statement - just posted

The Welsh Rugby Union is confident that professional teams from Wales will continue to take part in sanctioned league and cup competitions in the best interests of all of Welsh rugby.

The WRU also remains confident that a European rugby cup competition under the management of the ERC will take place next season. Welsh teams will also continue to play in the Pro12 league organised by Celtic Rugby Ltd.

Furthermore the WRU reaffirms its commitment to the International Rugby Board's regulations which provide that cross-border competitions and tournaments may only take place with the full approval of the relevant unions.

The WRU has received notice that the four Welsh Regional Organisations do not wish to continue with the existing Participation Agreement, as agreed by all parties in 2009, beyond 30 June 2014. As such the current contractual relationship between the WRU and the four Regional Organisations will end on that date.

It was always the hope of the WRU that the four Regional Organisations would have continued with the Participation Agreement and therefore maintain their contractual right to remain the WRU's nominated teams in sanctioned competitions.

The Participation Agreement provided a ten year rugby framework for the professional game in Wales and is an integral part of the rugby pyramid structure in Wales.

The decision of the existing Regional Organisations not to continue with the PA has now freed the WRU to present a new Participation Agreement focused on recognising and rewarding Regions which identify, develop and retain players capable of challenging for international honours with Wales. This is in the best interests of Welsh Rugby.

The governance of rugby in Wales, through the elected Board of the WRU, will continue to remain in the hands of the 320 clubs of the Welsh Rugby Union.

As the governing body of rugby in Wales the WRU will continue to act in the best interests of all of Welsh rugby at all times from the grassroots through to the international game

http://www.wru.co.uk/eng/news/29209.php#.UsMQhn8gGSM

RRW, on behalf of the four Welsh Regions, confirms that the Regional businesses remain unable to commit to extend the existing Participation Agreement with the WRU by the deadline of 31st December 2013.
Whilst the Welsh Regions, their players and coaches, investors, sponsors, supporters and communities take great pride in their contribution to Welsh Rugby at all levels of the game and remain totally committed to working with the WRU to secure a sustainable and competitive future for professional Rugby in Wales, at this point the WRU remains unable to confirm;

• The existence and structure of any European/Cup Competition for the period 14/15 to 18/19
• The income and distribution from any such competition over the period
• The number of teams participating in the Pro12 league for the period 14/15 to 18/19
• The income and distribution from the Pro12 league over the period, or even the confirmation of a main sponsor

Consequently, the basic definition of "participation" within the legal agreement cannot be confirmed. So the WRU are demanding that the Regions legally commit to their operating costs - without committing in turn to the competition incomes that are their obligation under the agreement.

The WRU do not and could not run their business in such circumstances and neither can the Regions. The WRU hold full responsibility under the Participation Agreement for the Competition platform and TV rights of the Regions and it is astonishing that they have put the four businesses in this position as a result of failing to fulfil their obligations under the agreement, despite having almost two years to resolve the issues involved. As it stands, the Regions do not believe the Participation Agreement reflects the changes and demands of the modern game.

As a result, the position the Regions currently face is that;

• 10/32 games are not confirmed for 14/15 season in just 8 months time - 31% season total
• Season ticket and match day ticket incomes cannot be confirmed
• Sponsor contracts and income cannot be confirmed within contractual deadlines
• Playing kit, merchandise design, orders and income cannot be confirmed within contractual deadlines

The total income currently at risk for the 14/15 season alone amounts to a possible £16m across the four Regions and they are unable to confirm any form of robust business plan and financial forecast beyond May - in just five months time.

At the same time, it is very clear that massive increases in the TV revenues being achieved by the Club game in Europe will dramatically increase the funding gap between the Regions and clubs in France and England over the next five years; well beyond the reach of any potential increases in attendance or commercial revenues; whilst the funding provided to Irish and Scottish teams from their Unions remains significantly greater than that in Wales.

Recognising these stark facts and as a direct result of the position they have been placed in, RRW and the Regions have had no choice but to consider every alternative to secure a truly sustainable future for regional rugby in Wales.

Therefore, RRW and the Regions re-affirm their commitment to the Rugby Champions Cup under the aegis of Six Nations, which will generate a guaranteed £12m additional funding across the four regions over the next three years and help reduce the funding gap compared to the French, English, Irish and Scottish clubs.

A solution must be reached by the end of January 2014. Should this not be possible, the Regions will have no choice but to pursue further competition options immediately.

Having secured this position, the Regions are now able to plan positively based on these options, rather than the destructive alternative of massive cost cutting that they would have no choice but to undertake due to the £16m risk they currently face as part of the existing agreement.

It continues to be the absolute intent and strong desire of RRW and the Regions to work with the WRU in progressing such a positive position for the next five years of professional Rugby in Wales, or indeed to discuss any proposals WRU themselves may have that could provide an even stronger platform for sustainable and competitive professional rugby across Wales.

Without change, professional rugby in Wales will fall further and further behind the rest of the European game.

The Regions' passionate commitment to developing world-class players in Wales, their investment in infrastructure, development networks, rugby intellect and experience to support Welsh Rugby success is absolute. It is this commitment, together with their role in promoting and celebrating the rich heritage and history within the regional and club game that they seek to protect.

I'd say the regions need to fold or be executed by the WRU.

It's worded carefully but the regions are dead ducks.

Shifty wrote:I'd say the regions need to fold or be executed by the WRU.

It's worded carefully but the regions are dead ducks.

That might be your preferred outcome but I fear it will be the end of professional rugby in Wales and that within 5 years Wales National team will reap the consequences and drop to similar low level as the Wales football team.

Dont forget SG that already there is almost a complete team of internationals playing outside Wales

I think the existing regions are in deep trouble

Seagultaf wrote:That might be your preferred outcome but I fear it will be the end of professional rugby in Wales and that within 5 years Wales National team will reap the consequences and drop to similar low level as the Wales football team.

No my preffered outcome is a 22 team Anglo-Celtic league, it's all on another topic, and it does fit into the current 42 week club season.

Professional rugby wont die in Wales, the WRU will simply put new regions out to tender. The Union will not endorse the Regions breaking away to join the Aviva, while they cant break away themselves without all the contracted players becoming inelibile to play for Wales. Which none of them will tolerate.

Allty wrote:Dont forget SG that already there is almost a complete team of internationals playing outside Wales

I think the existing regions are in deep trouble

As are the WRU with regards to player access unfortunately. The 4th AI and 6N breaks especially may prove troublesome.

B&I league or bust for the regions. In the red corner: the WRU, who have in recent years appointed a sound business minded COO who has pushed Welsh Rugby towards the black, appointed a world class coach who has dragged Wales into a top side etc. in the blue corner: the regional management, who have failed to do... Almost anything of any note. Over simplified, I know - but patience is failing for me. I can see the regions' position, but they've brought it on their own stupid heads to be honest. They've wasted time and money beyond reason. I feel it's time for a purge of sorts.

MarcusHalberstram wrote:B&I league or bust for the regions. In the red corner: the WRU, who have in recent years appointed a sound business minded COO who has pushed Welsh Rugby towards the black, appointed a world class coach who has dragged Wales into a top side etc. in the blue corner: the regional management, who have failed to do... Almost anything of any note. Over simplified, I know - but patience is failing for me. I can see the regions' position, but they've brought it on their own stupid heads to be honest. They've wasted time and money beyond reason. I feel it's time for a purge of sorts.

Thats fair but I will add the RRW are backed by at least 20 hard core fanatics from the Ospreys forum!
You need to be careful they gang up like a pack of Wolves over there, lol.   

Shifty wrote:

MarcusHalberstram wrote:B&I league or bust for the regions. In the red corner: the WRU, who have in recent years appointed a sound business minded COO who has pushed Welsh Rugby towards the black, appointed a world class coach who has dragged Wales into a top side etc. in the blue corner: the regional management, who have failed to do... Almost anything of any note. Over simplified, I know - but patience is failing for me. I can see the regions' position, but they've brought it on their own stupid heads to be honest. They've wasted time and money beyond reason. I feel it's time for a purge of sorts.

Thats fair but I will add the RRW are backed by at least 20 hard core fanatics from the Ospreys forum!
You need to be careful they gang up like a pack of Wolves over there, lol.   

Is that why and only you have been BANNED FOR FOUL AND ABUSIVE LANGUAGE on said forum

MarcusHalberstram wrote:B&I league or bust for the regions. In the red corner: the WRU, who have in recent years appointed a sound business minded COO who has pushed Welsh Rugby towards the black, appointed a world class coach who has dragged Wales into a top side etc. in the blue corner: the regional management, who have failed to do... Almost anything of any note. Over simplified, I know - but patience is failing for me. I can see the regions' position, but they've brought it on their own stupid heads to be honest. They've wasted time and money beyond reason. I feel it's time for a purge of sorts.

So you reckon the regions have contributed pretty much zilch to the team Wales successes over recent years? Wow! Appreciation is a wonderful thing, don't you know.

Interestingly worded by the WRU.

I know players are contracted to the regions but why would the regions keep those contracts if they can't play any games.

Only choices i see is for the said regions to play friendlies but that is only amongest themselves. And during the euro weekends.

Are the WRU saying that it is the regeons fault that Welsh rugby is in the state that it is in?

[quote="majesticimperialman"]Are the WRU saying that it is the regeons fault that Welsh rugby is in the state that it is in?[/quote]

I dont think they are.

However the National team is doing well and the regions have failed to perform year after year.

We must make our own opinions who is right or wrong and where the egos dwell

Allty wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:Are the WRU saying that it is the regeons fault that Welsh rugby is in the state that it is in?

I dont think they are.

However the National team is doing well and the regions have failed to perform year after year.

We must make our own opinions who is right or wrong and where the egos dwell

Outstanding performances by the Os though at the RDS in recent years don't you think?

majesticimperialman wrote:Are the WRU saying that it is the regeons fault that Welsh rugby is in the state that it is in?

We're not in a state of any kind. We're the "envy of the world" mun.
As another another lying fibber said; "education, education, education".

Allty wrote:Dont forget SG that already there is almost a complete team of internationals playing outside Wales

I think the existing regions are in deep trouble

So that's one region sorted. How many of these players are really going to want to come home?

wayne wrote:Is that why and only you have been BANNED FOR FOUL AND ABUSIVE LANGUAGE on said forum

I wasnt banned actually, I asked Moderator5 to delete my account as I found it a waste of time trying to talk to people on there.  

[quote="Risca Rev"][quote="Allty"]Dont forget SG that already there is almost a complete team of internationals playing outside Wales

I think the existing regions are in deep trouble[/quote]

So that's one region sorted. How many of these players are really going to want to come home?[/quote]

I dont think many will want to come home

This fiasco could get a lot worse before it gets better.

There is a BBC article about funding for the Liberty and an EU investigation (that also implies there may be issues with the Scarlets) Never rains etc...

Its a blog but well worth a look it is about the use of public money to fund private business

http://carmarthenplanning.blogspot.co.uk/2012/12/the-council-rugby-club-and-stadium-back.html

what are these guys on? Just seen the dragons and blues chief execs interviewed at halftime, and I am not saying they have no case, but they are putting it so badly.

Asking the WRU to sort out the whole of the Rabo and indeed the whole of European Rugby? Expecting them to find a sponsor for the Rabo?

WTF?

How can the WRU guarantee any of those things?

They're not saying the WRU have to sort it all out. What they're saying is that the current PA is not fair. It requires them to give up a hell of a lot for relatively little with the competitions (especially the generated revenue) not clearly defined.

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:what are these guys on? Just seen the dragons and blues chief execs interviewed at halftime, and I am not saying they have no case, but they are putting it so badly.

Asking the WRU to sort out the whole of the Rabo and indeed the whole of European Rugby? Expecting them to find a sponsor for the Rabo?

WTF?

How can the WRU guarantee any of those things?

Well if the WRU can't guarantee anything then they shouldn't expect the regions to sign what is effectively a blank sheet of paper, but they have been doing this for ages which begs the question, why?

Hold on. The WRU can't negotiate anything in respect of the Rabo, TV, etc until they have a commitment from teams to play in them. So at best disingenuous by RRW.

It's a Mexican stand off, whoever pulls the trigger first everyone gets shot. But WRU have more troops to come in.

justified sinner wrote:Hold on. The WRU can't negotiate anything in respect of the Rabo, TV, etc until they have a commitment from teams to play in them. So at best disingenuous by RRW.

It's a Mexican stand off, whoever pulls the trigger first everyone gets shot. But WRU have more troops to come in.

So it's more bonkers than we thought then. Best hibernate for a month or two till it's all sorted.
Cardiff have troops too btw.

Well, if RRW signed the contract then there would at least be 10 teams in the Rabo. RRW's refusal to sign the contract past the deadline may well have scuppered any sponsorship that was on the table. Without having to get into the rights or wrongs of RRW not signing the contract surely these are two issues that RRW have no grounds to gripe about?

Munchkin wrote:Well, if RRW signed the contract then there would at least be 10 teams in the Rabo. RRW's refusal to sign the contract past the deadline may well have scuppered any sponsorship that was on the table. Without having to get into the rights or wrongs of RRW not signing the contract surely these are two issues that RRW have no grounds to gripe about?

The regions have taken the option to not continue the current PA. That to me means boths sides have to get around the table to come up with a new PA. That would be good news.

Cardiff Dave wrote:

Munchkin wrote:Well, if RRW signed the contract then there would at least be 10 teams in the Rabo. RRW's refusal to sign the contract past the deadline may well have scuppered any sponsorship that was on the table. Without having to get into the rights or wrongs of RRW not signing the contract surely these are two issues that RRW have no grounds to gripe about?

The regions have taken the option to not continue the current PA. That to me means boths sides have to get around the table to come up with a new PA. That would be good news.

Good news in this whole sorry saga would be very welcome, Dave. I don't believe the regions can continue as they are unless they cede control over to WRU. The Aviva is a fantasy unless WRU sanctions the move, and I don't believe they will for all four regions. Two maybe, but those two cease to be regions, and then there's the question of academies? I'm hoping that WRU issue a statement after tomorrows meeting to help fill in the gaps.

Munchkin wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:

Munchkin wrote:Well, if RRW signed the contract then there would at least be 10 teams in the Rabo. RRW's refusal to sign the contract past the deadline may well have scuppered any sponsorship that was on the table. Without having to get into the rights or wrongs of RRW not signing the contract surely these are two issues that RRW have no grounds to gripe about?

The regions have taken the option to not continue the current PA. That to me means boths sides have to get around the table to come up with a new PA. That would be good news.

Good news in this whole sorry saga would be very welcome, Dave. I don't believe the regions can continue as they are unless they cede control over to WRU. The Aviva is a fantasy unless WRU sanctions the move, and I don't believe they will for all four regions. Two maybe, but those two cease to be regions, and then there's the question of academies? I'm hoping that WRU issue a statement after tomorrows meeting to help fill in the gaps.

I hope Dodger announces his resignation tomorrow, so that the WRU and the 4 (plus all the clubs) can work together for the betterment of Welsh rugby.

Cardiff Dave wrote:I hope Dodger announces his resignation tomorrow, so that the WRU and the 4 (plus all the clubs) can work together for the betterment of Welsh rugby.

Would you quit your very well paid job as head of Welsh rugby?   
Roger won't go anywhere.

Cardiff Dave wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:

Munchkin wrote:Well, if RRW signed the contract then there would at least be 10 teams in the Rabo. RRW's refusal to sign the contract past the deadline may well have scuppered any sponsorship that was on the table. Without having to get into the rights or wrongs of RRW not signing the contract surely these are two issues that RRW have no grounds to gripe about?

The regions have taken the option to not continue the current PA. That to me means boths sides have to get around the table to come up with a new PA. That would be good news.

Good news in this whole sorry saga would be very welcome, Dave. I don't believe the regions can continue as they are unless they cede control over to WRU. The Aviva is a fantasy unless WRU sanctions the move, and I don't believe they will for all four regions. Two maybe, but those two cease to be regions, and then there's the question of academies? I'm hoping that WRU issue a statement after tomorrows meeting to help fill in the gaps.

I hope Dodger announces his resignation tomorrow, so that the WRU and the 4 (plus all the clubs) can work together for the betterment of Welsh rugby.

A forlorn hope I would think, Dave. I would be delighted if the four regions could work hand in hand with WRU, however, I believe that will only be possible if all four place themselves under the control of WRU.

Shifty wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:I hope Dodger announces his resignation tomorrow, so that the WRU and the 4 (plus all the clubs) can work together for the betterment of Welsh rugby.

Would you quit your very well paid job as head of Welsh rugby?   
Roger won't go anywhere.

Bingo! And that infamous bonus. What's he on nowadays? £300k plus for doing what exactly?
Let's all go to court and get it all out in the open I say as this rubbish has been going on for far too long.

Munchkin wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:

Munchkin wrote:Well, if RRW signed the contract then there would at least be 10 teams in the Rabo. RRW's refusal to sign the contract past the deadline may well have scuppered any sponsorship that was on the table. Without having to get into the rights or wrongs of RRW not signing the contract surely these are two issues that RRW have no grounds to gripe about?

The regions have taken the option to not continue the current PA. That to me means boths sides have to get around the table to come up with a new PA. That would be good news.

Good news in this whole sorry saga would be very welcome, Dave. I don't believe the regions can continue as they are unless they cede control over to WRU. The Aviva is a fantasy unless WRU sanctions the move, and I don't believe they will for all four regions. Two maybe, but those two cease to be regions, and then there's the question of academies? I'm hoping that WRU issue a statement after tomorrows meeting to help fill in the gaps.

I hope Dodger announces his resignation tomorrow, so that the WRU and the 4 (plus all the clubs) can work together for the betterment of Welsh rugby.

A forlorn hope I would think, Dave. I would be delighted if the four regions could work hand in hand with WRU, however, I believe that will only be possible if all four place themselves under the control of WRU.

If everything was under WRU control we'd no doubt have fewer teams. Not sure we would want that or whether it would be best for Welsh rugby.

Why would you have fewer teams? Three regional teams maybe, but then if three works better than four why not? Not saying that four wouldn't work though.

Munchkin wrote:Why would you have fewer teams? Three regional teams maybe, but then if three works better than four why not? Not saying that four wouldn't work though.

Money and risk.

Will we really end up with possiibly 7 Welsh teams/Regions. The 4 we currently have playing possibly in the English system self funded and the the rumoured 3 new teams the WRU have muted.

Would all players be available for Welsh selection?

Where would the WRU get players of a competitive standard to fill the new teams, where do they think the fans would come from?

Cardiff Dave wrote:

Munchkin wrote:Why would you have fewer teams? Three regional teams maybe, but then if three works better than four why not? Not saying that four wouldn't work though.

Money and risk.

The money I can understand, although with a model that works then that might not be an issue in the long term. Not sure what you mean by risk?

Munchkin wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:

Munchkin wrote:Why would you have fewer teams? Three regional teams maybe, but then if three works better than four why not? Not saying that four wouldn't work though.

Money and risk.

The money I can understand, although with a model that works then that might not be an issue in the long term. Not sure what you mean by risk?

Well payed Welsh international players getting injured for example and their replacements when they are on team wales duty.

Cardiff Dave wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:

Munchkin wrote:Why would you have fewer teams? Three regional teams maybe, but then if three works better than four why not? Not saying that four wouldn't work though.

Money and risk.

The money I can understand, although with a model that works then that might not be an issue in the long term. Not sure what you mean by risk?

Well payed Welsh international players getting injured for example and their replacements when they are on team wales duty.

Maybe something akin to the IRFU model? I can't see why that should be such a problem really.

Munchkin wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:

Munchkin wrote:Why would you have fewer teams? Three regional teams maybe, but then if three works better than four why not? Not saying that four wouldn't work though.

Money and risk.

The money I can understand, although with a model that works then that might not be an issue in the long term. Not sure what you mean by risk?

Well payed Welsh international players getting injured for example and their replacements when they are on team wales duty.

Maybe something akin to the IRFU model? I can't see why that should be such a problem really.

Because, Internationally your model is not very good

wayne wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:

Munchkin wrote:Why would you have fewer teams? Three regional teams maybe, but then if three works better than four why not? Not saying that four wouldn't work though.

Money and risk.

The money I can understand, although with a model that works then that might not be an issue in the long term. Not sure what you mean by risk?

Well payed Welsh international players getting injured for example and their replacements when they are on team wales duty.

Maybe something akin to the IRFU model? I can't see why that should be such a problem really.

Because, Internationally your model is not very good

Thought we were talking about a regional model, wayne? Yes? There's nothing wrong with the IRFU model on an international basis. In fact it works very well for them. Much better than the regions model. True that the national side hasn't faired as well as the Provinces, but that is not down to a flawed model. It is either we don't have the players to bring that success, or it was the coaching ticket. I think we have the players, and so I'm thinking the right coaching ticket might bring more success.

The region model as is doesn't work, will never work, wayne. Time for change.

Munchkin wrote:

wayne wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:

Munchkin wrote:Why would you have fewer teams? Three regional teams maybe, but then if three works better than four why not? Not saying that four wouldn't work though.

Money and risk.

The money I can understand, although with a model that works then that might not be an issue in the long term. Not sure what you mean by risk?

Well payed Welsh international players getting injured for example and their replacements when they are on team wales duty.

Maybe something akin to the IRFU model? I can't see why that should be such a problem really.

Because, Internationally your model is not very good

Thought we were talking about a regional model, wayne? Yes? There's nothing wrong with the IRFU model on an international basis. In fact it works very well for them. Much better than the regions model. True that the national side hasn't faired as well as the Provinces, but that is not down to a flawed model. It is either we don't have the players to bring that success, or it was the coaching ticket. I think we have the players, and so I'm thinking the right coaching ticket might bring more success.

The region model as is doesn't work, will never work, wayne. Time for change.

That is what we are trying to do and NO we don't want the Irish model under any circumstances, the people who have bankrolled the Regions from the beginning just want FAIR recompense for their Risk.

Munchkin wrote:

wayne wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:

Munchkin wrote:Why would you have fewer teams? Three regional teams maybe, but then if three works better than four why not? Not saying that four wouldn't work though.

Money and risk.

The money I can understand, although with a model that works then that might not be an issue in the long term. Not sure what you mean by risk?

Well payed Welsh international players getting injured for example and their replacements when they are on team wales duty.

Maybe something akin to the IRFU model? I can't see why that should be such a problem really.

Because, Internationally your model is not very good

Thought we were talking about a regional model, wayne? Yes? There's nothing wrong with the IRFU model on an international basis. In fact it works very well for them. Much better than the regions model. True that the national side hasn't faired as well as the Provinces, but that is not down to a flawed model. It is either we don't have the players to bring that success, or it was the coaching ticket. I think we have the players, and so I'm thinking the right coaching ticket might bring more success.

The region model as is doesn't work, will never work, wayne. Time for change.

Time for change, yes.
Re-inventing the wheel, no.
We have what we have, so let's make it work.

wayne wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

wayne wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:

Munchkin wrote:Why would you have fewer teams? Three regional teams maybe, but then if three works better than four why not? Not saying that four wouldn't work though.

Money and risk.

The money I can understand, although with a model that works then that might not be an issue in the long term. Not sure what you mean by risk?

Well payed Welsh international players getting injured for example and their replacements when they are on team wales duty.

Maybe something akin to the IRFU model? I can't see why that should be such a problem really.

Because, Internationally your model is not very good

Thought we were talking about a regional model, wayne? Yes? There's nothing wrong with the IRFU model on an international basis. In fact it works very well for them. Much better than the regions model. True that the national side hasn't faired as well as the Provinces, but that is not down to a flawed model. It is either we don't have the players to bring that success, or it was the coaching ticket. I think we have the players, and so I'm thinking the right coaching ticket might bring more success.

The region model as is doesn't work, will never work, wayne. Time for change.

That is what we are trying to do and NO we don't want the Irish model under any circumstances, the people who have bankrolled the Regions from the beginning just want FAIR recompense for their Risk.

Maybe if the regions had made better use of the funding they did receive from WRU then things might have been different. By IRFU model I take you to mean Union owned? It may not even have to come to that, but the existing model is a failure, and so change is needed. Simply having WRU throwing money at the regions is not the answer either. The regions want more money then the regions should be prepared to give the WRU more control over those same regions.

Cardiff Dave wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

wayne wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:

Munchkin wrote:Why would you have fewer teams? Three regional teams maybe, but then if three works better than four why not? Not saying that four wouldn't work though.

Money and risk.

The money I can understand, although with a model that works then that might not be an issue in the long term. Not sure what you mean by risk?

Well payed Welsh international players getting injured for example and their replacements when they are on team wales duty.

Maybe something akin to the IRFU model? I can't see why that should be such a problem really.

Because, Internationally your model is not very good

Thought we were talking about a regional model, wayne? Yes? There's nothing wrong with the IRFU model on an international basis. In fact it works very well for them. Much better than the regions model. True that the national side hasn't faired as well as the Provinces, but that is not down to a flawed model. It is either we don't have the players to bring that success, or it was the coaching ticket. I think we have the players, and so I'm thinking the right coaching ticket might bring more success.

The region model as is doesn't work, will never work, wayne. Time for change.

Time for change, yes.
Re-inventing the wheel, no.
We have what we have, so let's make it work.

Circumstance may dictate a re-inventing of the wheel. We will just have to see what transpires over the next few weeks.

Munchkin wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

wayne wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:

Munchkin wrote:Why would you have fewer teams? Three regional teams maybe, but then if three works better than four why not? Not saying that four wouldn't work though.

Money and risk.

The money I can understand, although with a model that works then that might not be an issue in the long term. Not sure what you mean by risk?

Well payed Welsh international players getting injured for example and their replacements when they are on team wales duty.

Maybe something akin to the IRFU model? I can't see why that should be such a problem really.

Because, Internationally your model is not very good

Thought we were talking about a regional model, wayne? Yes? There's nothing wrong with the IRFU model on an international basis. In fact it works very well for them. Much better than the regions model. True that the national side hasn't faired as well as the Provinces, but that is not down to a flawed model. It is either we don't have the players to bring that success, or it was the coaching ticket. I think we have the players, and so I'm thinking the right coaching ticket might bring more success.

The region model as is doesn't work, will never work, wayne. Time for change.

Time for change, yes.
Re-inventing the wheel, no.
We have what we have, so let's make it work.

Circumstance may dictate a re-inventing of the wheel. We will just have to see what transpires over the next few weeks.

No reason for re-inventing the wheel.
What we have works/has worked marvelously for team wales, but let's make it work for the 4 and Welsh rugby in general too.

The regions need to understand that the WRU is under contract with Celtic Rugby to provide 4 teams to the Pro12. That means their hands are tied if the regions don't play ball- new teams will have to be created. The show must go on. And that the Celtic sides they complain are funded better can be given that extra income because their Unions have central control- a deal to save the current teams is still possible if they are willing to hand over the reigns.

The WRU needs to realise that the Irish, Scottish and Italians are funding their sides proportionately more generously than they are and whether next seasons regions are the same sides or new ones- you can't do this on the cheap.

And both sides need to realise that for goodness sake, this public sniping has to stop.

Notch wrote:The regions need to understand that the WRU is under contract with Celtic Rugby to provide 4 teams to the Pro12. That means their hands are tied if the regions don't play ball- new teams will have to be created. The show must go on. And that the Celtic sides they complain are funded better can be given that extra income because their Unions have central control- a deal to save the current teams is still possible if they are willing to hand over the reigns.

The WRU needs to realise that the Irish, Scottish and Italians are funding their sides proportionately more generously than they are and whether next seasons regions are the same sides or new ones- you can't do this on the cheap.

And both sides need to realise that for goodness sake, this public sniping has to stop.

Notch, you were fortunate to be in a stable Financial state at the onset of Professionalism and with expertise since that date, WE unfortunately due to the WC of 1999 and the funding of the MS were not and the Benefactors were a necessity, as Moffett says it was within the Dodgers powers to carry on paying at the same rate for a longer period and put more into the layers below it, OR , renegotiate the balance and increase the payments over a shorter period and NOT invest in the lower layers. THIS was a conscious Monetary decision and he took the option a RUGBY man wouldn't have taken.

And they need to review it. But I have to say, I wouldn't be too keen to hand over the money to the regions without them making some guarantees.

Hopefully a deal will be done that can re-unote the warring parties- and not just kick the can down the road for another few years.