WRU statement vs RRW statement - just posted

First topic message reminder :

The Welsh Rugby Union is confident that professional teams from Wales will continue to take part in sanctioned league and cup competitions in the best interests of all of Welsh rugby.

The WRU also remains confident that a European rugby cup competition under the management of the ERC will take place next season. Welsh teams will also continue to play in the Pro12 league organised by Celtic Rugby Ltd.

Furthermore the WRU reaffirms its commitment to the International Rugby Board's regulations which provide that cross-border competitions and tournaments may only take place with the full approval of the relevant unions.

The WRU has received notice that the four Welsh Regional Organisations do not wish to continue with the existing Participation Agreement, as agreed by all parties in 2009, beyond 30 June 2014. As such the current contractual relationship between the WRU and the four Regional Organisations will end on that date.

It was always the hope of the WRU that the four Regional Organisations would have continued with the Participation Agreement and therefore maintain their contractual right to remain the WRU's nominated teams in sanctioned competitions.

The Participation Agreement provided a ten year rugby framework for the professional game in Wales and is an integral part of the rugby pyramid structure in Wales.

The decision of the existing Regional Organisations not to continue with the PA has now freed the WRU to present a new Participation Agreement focused on recognising and rewarding Regions which identify, develop and retain players capable of challenging for international honours with Wales. This is in the best interests of Welsh Rugby.

The governance of rugby in Wales, through the elected Board of the WRU, will continue to remain in the hands of the 320 clubs of the Welsh Rugby Union.

As the governing body of rugby in Wales the WRU will continue to act in the best interests of all of Welsh rugby at all times from the grassroots through to the international game

http://www.wru.co.uk/eng/news/29209.php#.UsMQhn8gGSM

Notch wrote:And they need to review it. But I have to say, I wouldn't be too keen to hand over the money to the regions without them making some guarantees.

Hopefully a deal will be done that can re-unote the warring parties- and not just kick the can down the road for another few years.

The problem is they want TOTAL CONTROL, and we want Fair recompense for the players we supply to TW, personally I cannot see anything other than the destruction of the Regions or the demise of Lewis and as I've pointed out in many other threads when initially I started supporting the Ospreys I was on the side of TW, because of the attitude of a NON RUGBY MAN, I've totally changed allegiance.

Notch, I appreciate that you want the best for Ireland and it's provinces so this Welsh 'problem' is a 'cancer' (or whatever you called it) on you lot at the moment. However, if the regions signed the participation agreement they'd get weaker and weaker over the next 5 years. You say you want strong welsh regions to give you a strong league that attracts big sponsors, yet you seem very pro the WRU stance and pro status quo in Wales (carrying on as they were).

wayne wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

wayne wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:

Munchkin wrote:Why would you have fewer teams? Three regional teams maybe, but then if three works better than four why not? Not saying that four wouldn't work though.

Money and risk.

The money I can understand, although with a model that works then that might not be an issue in the long term. Not sure what you mean by risk?

Well payed Welsh international players getting injured for example and their replacements when they are on team wales duty.

Maybe something akin to the IRFU model? I can't see why that should be such a problem really.

Because, Internationally your model is not very good

Thought we were talking about a regional model, wayne? Yes? There's nothing wrong with the IRFU model on an international basis. In fact it works very well for them. Much better than the regions model. True that the national side hasn't faired as well as the Provinces, but that is not down to a flawed model. It is either we don't have the players to bring that success, or it was the coaching ticket. I think we have the players, and so I'm thinking the right coaching ticket might bring more success.

The region model as is doesn't work, will never work, wayne. Time for change.

That is what we are trying to do and NO we don't want the Irish model under any circumstances, the people who have bankrolled the Regions from the beginning just want FAIR recompense for their Risk.

You make a fair point - that said some of the biggest spending benefactors have long since jumped ship (Brown, Cuddy etc). The problem is do the current lot actually have the resources and the stones to back them financially in case things didn't quite go to plan? I'm pretty sure the Dragons would be the first to go. Scarlets wouldn't last long either. Then you are left with the benefactors at both the Blues and Ospreys which I'm unsure of their continued contribution towards any real long term losses.

The problem they have they are working from a weaker position. We all know the WRU wont sanction the reformatted Aviva which could the current regions could take them to court over. But a really key part of this is the RFU are not keen on this deal either. I just don't see the PRL going to court over this from their side which would result in the offer being retracted. I appreciate they have outlined the financial rewards commitment but again no submission has been made to the RFU for this deal. Even if they do this (which the English wont) it could but IRB sanctions on all their clubs & regions regardless of the outcome of any civil case. So the stars would leave regardless if international representation is threatened.

Brown is still at the Dragons.

Griff wrote:Brown is still at the Dragons.

Yes but only because he cant find anyone to buy his shares (he's looking for someone to take them on but who will actually develop the team and put something into it).

My understanding is that since his illness his contributions haven't actually accumulated in any money of late. Think all that stopped back around 04/05. Since the Dragons have had to cut their teeth accordingly and have been spending well below the 3.5 million self cap the other regions are working from.

I know ive been posted by Dave as being Anti Regionalism on other threads so wanted to just clear a few things up. I'm not pro WRU. I'm not pro anyone. I agree both sides have their flaws.

I do think that the money issue has been raised several times over regional rugby over the past decade. I actually don't think the money should be a problem. There are dozens of teams out performing our regional teams with less finance (historically). If money alone was the driving force France would be dominating everything but they don't.

What are issues however is that we continue to drive our own player values up by signing them off each other (there are millions of examples I could give here). Seems silly that the regions are not working with each other as players moving internally just increases the value of players salaries without there being any offers outside of Wales. Sure the big names will always be targeted but are teams abroad really likely to sign talent (unproven) on massive salaries until they have proved their worth. Not likely.

I'm also not a big fan of our foreign policies at regional level. Given the sheer talent at age grade rugby surely the whole point of our regions is to promote in house and from around the club game in Wales.

The whole argument is stupid to begin with as I believe neither side have been listening to the fans. I don't want to see Welsh Pro Rugby align itself with English Rugby. I'm fond of the Irish, Scottish & Italian format we currently play in. I also believe our stance on no relegation allows our sides to build for the future. Sure maybe it lacks edge for bottom sides but it doesn't harm anyone's living or risk a teams financial meltdown. I also believe that if Welsh rugby has any future we have to work together with our celtic cousins.

The issue here is that the WRU don't answer to 4 regions on the topic. They have to answer to over 200 odd clubs so cant just necessarily do what's right for those 4 teams. I agree that some of the statements have been unfair and maybe it is unjust that the WRU have not increased the funding. But I also see the other argument as the WRU have a fairly valid point regarding loss of control on how the money is spent and not being able to influence the performances of these teams, who have been woeful (with the exception of the Ospreys). So both sides have valid points.

What I haven't liked much however is how quick the regions have been to dump on the Pro12 and a host of other issues just to fend for themselves. I haven't liked that one bit. Our destiny and future in the sport works in coordination with the other Celtic Nations. If we leave them, how long before we are dragged under by the English and French? Joining a relegation based league wont do our teams any long term favours either. Does it help anyone if due to this our teams are playing in lower leagues of the Aviva. I'm pretty sure the English wont be giving us 4 million a season if we are playing in national division 1 for any long period of time.

Welshmushroom wrote:

Griff wrote:Brown is still at the Dragons.

Yes but only because he cant find anyone to buy his shares (he's looking for someone to take them on but who will actually develop the team and put something into it).

My understanding is that since his illness his contributions haven't actually accumulated in any money of late.  Think all that stopped back around 04/05.  Since the Dragons have had to cut their teeth accordingly and have been spending well below the 3.5 million self cap the other regions are working from.

Was the Bisley built in 04/05?

Cuddy is still at Ospreys too.

Griff wrote:Notch, I appreciate that you want the best for Ireland and it's provinces so this Welsh 'problem' is a 'cancer' (or whatever you called it) on you lot at the moment. However, if the regions signed the participation agreement they'd get weaker and weaker over the next 5 years. You say you want strong welsh regions to give you a strong league that attracts big sponsors, yet you seem very pro the WRU stance and pro status quo in Wales (carrying on as they were).

No I'm not, I want the regions to be properly funded- I just don't see how you can have a Union plough significant amounts of investment into sides they don't control. The ideal situation is the WRU do an about face and turn on the tap in terms of funding while the ownership of the regions reverts to them and we continue with the same teams next season.

Having the regions under Union control will make no difference if they don't at least match the funding that the Irish teams are given. But right now the regions are actually damaging the very source of that funding by undermining the Pro12 with this speculation of leaving the Pro12. The value of the Pro12 to sponsors is dropping every day this isn't sorted out.

I am pro-WRU out of necessity really, because it's the WRU who have the obligation to provide 4 Welsh teams to the Pro12 and we need those teams. Look at it like this. The WRU are committed to the league, the regions aren't- and its possible that new regions will be stronger than the existing ones five years down the line if the WRU feels like they can invest more in centrally controlled teams. Sadly, I suspect they think they can do this on the cheap. They will be disabused of that notion quickly and painfully. If the new teams aren't able to retain Welsh talent- and they would likely hemorrhage players if the current regions were wound up- they will sink to the bottom of the league and thats not what we want either.

Sadly I don't think the WRU place anywhere near the same importance on the Pro12 as the IRFU but we benefited from much more prudent decision making at the onset of professionalism. In truth, most of these problems date back to the early years of professionalism and the dogs dinner previous WRU chairmen left in their wake.

And finally, whatever my personal opinions I've got a massive amount of empathy for the average fan in Wales who is being thoroughly shafted by all parties here.

In truth, most of these problems date back to the early years of professionalism and the dogs dinner previous WRU chairmen left in their wake.

100% correct add regional egos to that and is explains the situation today

The WRU has to be in charge it really is that straight forward

The Regions are a creation of the WRU.  If the WRU decides to somehow kill the current Regions and create 4 new teams, I wonder if the current Region's owners/benefactors would take legal action to be compensated for spending their own money.  On the surface it would seem a valid case.  And if Rugby is in the barrel nearing the waterfall now, just wait for that one.

It does seem naive for the WRU to set up teams they don't fully control, if that is what they wanted.  Yes, the owners/benefactors bought into the concept, but, to me, this is ultimately a failure of the WRU.  They probably did not want to spend the money to fully own the Regions nor did they want fully independent clubs, so they picked the middle ground despite wanting full direct control.  With the perfect view of hindsight, if they really wanted full direct control, it is mind blowing, no?

Sounds like the WRU wanted what everyone wants, as much control as possible just with someone else footing the bill

doctor_grey wrote:
On the surface of it all, it does seem naive for the WRU to set up teams they don't fully control, if that is what they wanted.  Yes, the owners/benefactors bought into the concept, but, to me, this is ultimately a failure of the WRU.  They probably did not want to spend the money to fully own the Regions nor did they want fully independent clubs, so they picked the middle ground despite wanting full direct control.  With the perfect view of hindsight, if they really wanted full direct control, it is mind blowing, no?  

Yep. The WRU created this monster and its coming back to haunt them. The regions were flawed in concept and execution in so many ways.

The key question is, is it possible to rectify those mistakes with a clean slate and starting from scratch or do they have to be pragmatic and continue working with the structures they have... in the first option legal challenges from the existing regions are highly likely. And look at Aironi and Zebre for an example of how difficult it is to start a new team from nothing. In the second option, the current problems still remain and the WRU remain powerless in the contracting of players.

Really they are between a rock and hard place. A legacy of mismanagement and blunders.

lostinwales wrote:Sounds like the WRU wanted what everyone wants, as much control as possible just with someone else footing the bill

Tbh, that seems to be the case with both sides. The WRU want the player access, prioritization of the national team and central control with the main investment coming from private owners and RRW want all the perks of being independent businesses with the WRU throwing more money at them.

Again where would the players and fans for the 'new' Regions come from?

Also would the Welsh players currently with the Regions be picked for Wales if they were in a Anglo-Welsh set up and had turned their bakcs on the WRU?

Notch wrote:Yep. The WRU created this monster and its coming back to haunt them. The regions were flawed in concept and execution in so many ways.

The key question is, is it possible to rectify those mistakes with a clean slate and starting from scratch or do they have to be pragmatic and continue working with the structures they have... in the first option legal challenges from the existing regions are highly likely. And look at Aironi and Zebre for an example of how difficult it is to start a new team from nothing. In the second option, the current problems still remain and the WRU remain powerless in the contracting of players.

Really they are between a rock and hard place. A legacy of mismanagement and blunders.

No Professionalism and the clubs created this mess.

The clubs held the players contracts in 2003 and refused to release them to the WRU. The Union had no choice but to turn 9 clubs into 5 regions, then 4 regions.

In all but name, but in some cases name, the "regions" are Llanelli, Swansea, Cardiff and Newport. The first 3 being the most dominant and successful clubs in Wales. The problem in Wales is every village has it's own rugby team and people can quite happily walk around the corner and watch their team play. Most people don't want to drive miles and miles to watch teams play when they can watch their own team, closer to home, for a lot less money!

Out of the original 9 clubs, all of them still exist and play games and people still watch them. Sadly watching super clubs playing Irish, Scottish and Italian teams each week in the Rabo is not exciting people. I was open minded enough as a Bridgend supporter to have an interest in the Celtic Warriors, then have an Ospreys season ticket. But most people just prefer to keep it local and support their village / town side.

The best thing for Wales is to have a club system like the English but we can't afford it!   

Ok so the WRU have stated they are working on a new agreement that will benefit regional sides financially with a direct incentive scheme based on current internationals for Wales.

Problem here is that could really hurt some teams like the Dragons. I agree in previous seasons we have been useless at supplying enough international standard players but based on this seasons performances there are quite a few playing with form. Sadly we sometimes get over looked. I would argue for example Dan Evans is probably the second best full back in wales atm on form. Dixon should have featured in the Autumn as I think he is already developing at a incredible pace at pro level. I would also say Richie Rees is playing the form of his life and probably should be starting for Wales. I hope Lyn succeeds in turning our fortunes around and how the selectors view us as a side because otherwise this sort of deal could hurt us.

That said I think there are sides probably in a worse situation than us. If Scarlets lose Priestland and with JD off they might be supplying less than us to the International cause. Have to wait to see who's actually left at the Blues and Ospreys before I can really look at those comparisons.

WM,

What I have questioned on another thread is lets say a player comes through the academy of one Region and id developed etc but then feels he needs to move on to another to get more high profile games and then wins a cap.

The Region who developed him won't get money but the 'bigger' Region who could afford to buy him gets the money but hasnt spent any money on his development etc.

That seems unfair to me.

bedfordwelsh wrote:WM,

What I have questioned on another thread is lets say a player comes through the academy of one Region and id developed etc but then feels he needs to move on to another to get more high profile games and then wins a cap.

The Region who developed him won't get money but the 'bigger' Region who could afford to buy him gets the money but hasnt spent any money on his development etc.

That seems unfair to me.

Totally agree with your sentiment here. Would be my concern as well. I'd feel happier if Pro 12 appearances would be taken in to consideration so if a player has played a % of their rugby at two welsh clubs the pot is split by that percentage. Sadly such a formula may prove to be to complicated. Maybe a simpler version which only factors who a player has played for most. So if say someone plays for one region then moves to another will only see that players funding moved when he has featured in more games than his original team. That would at least help a little in the transfer merry go round in Wales.

The other issue for me is wont this just inflate top welsh levels internationals even further? I appreciate there is a threat from France regarding salaries but it seems even sillier if the regions start driving the prices up even further just to secure the best players in wales to take a bigger slice of funding away from its rivals.

I also think its an attempt to try and divide the Regions get them to start bitching at each other etc.

I think it would be easier to pay out he money based on years served for, say, 5 years.

So if a player came through your academy and gets capped you get all the money. If the player is brought in to another region in the summer and gets capped in the AI it all goes his origin region. After 2 years his new region would get 40% and old 60%. After 5 years the new region would get the lot. Something like that anyway.

That way a region that produces talent gets some reward, but so does a. Region that continues their development.

HammerofThunor wrote:I think it would be easier to pay out he money based on years served for, say, 5 years.

So if a player came through your academy and gets capped you get all the money. If the player is brought in to another region in the summer and gets capped in the AI it all goes his origin region. After 2 years his new region would get 40% and old 60%. After 5 years the new region would get the lot. Something like that anyway.

That way a region that produces talent gets some reward, but so does a. Region that continues their development.

Hammer,

Thats a the sensible option so we all know that will never get the green light

Welshmushroom wrote:

Totally agree with your sentiment here.  Would be my concern as well.  I'd feel happier if Pro 12 appearances would be taken in to consideration so if  a player has played a % of their rugby at two welsh clubs the pot is split by that percentage.  Sadly such a formula may prove to be to complicated.  Maybe a simpler version which only factors who a player has played for most.  So if say someone plays for one region then moves to another will only see that players funding moved when he has featured in more games than his original team.  That would at least help a little in the transfer merry go round in Wales.

The other issue for me is wont this just inflate top welsh levels internationals even further?  I appreciate there is a threat from France regarding salaries but it seems even sillier if the regions start driving the prices up even further just to secure the best players in wales to take a bigger slice of funding away from its rivals.  

Paying the clubs that currently contract the players is what we have in the premiership - though PRL redistribute other funds to balance this out. As I understand it the clubs get other financial incentives for running the academies and playing a specified number of England qualified players in their squad. It would be no bad thing if the academies were rewarded for their successes with more going to those that have successfully had players capped further down the line, but while that should be rewarded I think that is a separate issue to paying for player release (which should be covering the cost to the club of getting cover, and compensate for the fact they are still paying the players salary while they are off playing internationals).

It's a ruddy awful idea from the WRU. OK, we haven't seen the details yet but we can guess that this isn't going to involve any extra funding overall.

I've yet to see a proposal from any party that would give regional rugby the kind of budget it needs to retain the best players in Wales. I wish RRW and the WRU would take the bull by the horns here and sit down together with a look at what exactly is on the table in terms of competitions and finances and then plot a way forward. If that means amalgamating regions or setting them free of their club based ties then so be it. Equally the WRU could agree to give the regions more independence to pursue their own revenues. Instead we continue to watch the same old debacle grind on and on. Anybody else fed up with this yet?

doctor_grey wrote:The Regions are a creation of the WRU.

Yes and maybe no. The clubs (or rather some of the clubs) after negotiation and much wrangling came up with what we have now. The WRU merely said ok that will do. No fans/supporters had a say in this don't forget. We got what we were given.
All here in Wiki;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Introduction_of_regional_rugby_union_teams_in_Wales

Letter from the WRU sent to all Welsh clubs;

http://files.pitchero.com/counties/12/1388770726.pdf

A fair document seeming to cover everything.

I think a very important pint is "We aint got the money"

It's been the point all along, even before the last agreement that the regions signed willingly, knowing that there was no more in the pot for them. No bail outs when their business plans fail...!

The WRU will not back down, the regions have no options here.

Allty wrote:A fair document seeming to cover everything.

I think a very important pint is "We aint got the money"

Which kinda makes you wonder why the clubs are so upset that the WRU keeps turning down a bigger slice of European money  and to negotiate on more financially beneficial domestic competitions that the Rabo or to even be able to negotiate their own TV money.
Or maybe makes it rather obvious as to where the gripes come from

Once the MS is paid off they can put more money in. Whatever is thought about them paying it off faster it means in 2020 they'll significantly more available. I can't help but think the WRU want 5 year deal in place as a holder and then ramp it up in 2020.

Well that letter killed a few minutes and a few brain cells.  I would really have expected a better, more concise (it certainly is not that) document answering the open points the rest of us who live in the real world are discussing.  Legalistic mumbo-jumbo, says absolutely nothing except for these two bullet points, taken, of course, from the last page:  

"All these factors point to the inevitable reality that here in Wales we have to work together to ensure rugby union remains our national sport."

"The WRU has informed the four Regional Organisations they will shortly be presented with a new agreement in respect of professional rugby in Wales."

If some highly paid individuals waste the time to write this kind of document, it really doesn't present much optimism for a negotiated settlement, does it? In fact, all it really says is:
We are the WRU
Another proposal is coming
Why can't we all just get along?

Looks like we have a new statement from RRW, published today within the last hour;

Statement from Regional Rugby Wales
4 January 2014, 3:15 pm

Regional Rugby Wales on behalf of the four Welsh regions, the Scarlets, the Ospreys, Newport Gwent Dragons and Cardiff Blues issues the following statement in order to establish important facts and provide clarity regarding the future of Welsh regional rugby.

· The Rugby Champions Cup will bring the biggest increase of funding into the Welsh game in five years. It will increase funding to the Irish clubs and protect the Scottish clubs. Bringing in £12m in three years into the Welsh game does not threaten the Six Nations or bring about its demise.

· In only two months, the Welsh Regions have themselves, negotiated the biggest increase in funding for Welsh Rugby of the last five years and are simply asking the WRU as the governing body for support in this.

· The WRU not only has full responsibility, but is also contractually obliged to negotiate competition revenues and TV distribution revenues under the Participation Agreement. The WRU has failed miserably to negotiate equitable and fair revenue distribution for Welsh clubs in line with clubs in England and France.

· The ERC Accord finishes this year and the WRU's latest proposal for a replacement to exclude the English clubs includes six undefined French clubs and maintains an unequal distribution of revenue to the Welsh clubs. Given the other opportunities that now exist, it is an inferior competition. The proposed competition would only be available on Sky TV, not terrestrial television, as is the case with the existing European competition.

· It's disappointing that the WRU's disrespectful response to another significant and positive proposal from the Regions (as it was to the real PRGB last year) is once again to engage in a vitriolic and disingenuous attack on the Welsh Regions; with the purpose of detracting attention away from the real issues Welsh regional rugby is facing and that need addressing urgently.

· The Regions would question why the WRU are scaremongering about a break away. This has never been mentioned by the Regions who have only asked for positive support as outlined in their most recent statement of 31st December. As stated then; it continues to be the absolute intent and strong desire of RRW and the Regions to work with the WRU in progressing such a positive position for the next five years of professional Rugby in Wales, or indeed to discuss any proposals WRU themselves may have that could provide an even stronger platform for sustainable and competitive professional rugby across Wales.

· It is incredulous to the Welsh Regions that the WRU refused to discuss any item in the current Participation Agreement before its deadline of 31st December but is now willing to offer a "new agreement" on different terms. Equally it is yet to be explained by the WRU why bringing an additional £12m into the game by the Regions, is not in the best interests of Welsh rugby.

· It would seem from the recent correspondence from the WRU to clubs in Wales that their focus is all about control and not the best interests of Welsh rugby.

· RRW and the Regions, through no choice of their own, have been forced to consider every alternative to secure a sustainable future for regional rugby in Wales; and have worked tirelessly to be able to plan their futures positively based on new options in the absence of any concrete proposals on income and distribution for Europe or the PRO12 league.

The proposed "one-off payment" of £1m for the recruitment, retention and development of Welsh international players was always linked to a requirement for the Regions to sign an extension to the Participation Agreement. In the Regions view, it was purely a hollow stunt because it always carried impossible conditions.

http://www.scarlets.co.uk/eng/news/6404.php
http://www.cardiffblues.com/news/6726.php#.Usgo3vtR6_8

So all is happy and jolly? I feel like we're on the cusp on a new deal.   

Oh dear.

Strong words from RRW. Had to laugh at the following though:

"In only two months, the Welsh Regions have themselves, negotiated the biggest increase in funding for Welsh Rugby of the last five years and are simply asking the WRU as the governing body for support in this."

Sure they have. Must have been really tough for them getting PRL to agree, and as it's tied to this fantasy RCC the WRU will not agree.

Think the WRU are meeting on Monday. Maybe mention of new regions?

Munchkin wrote:Strong words from RRW. Had to laugh at the following though:

"In only two months, the Welsh Regions have themselves, negotiated the biggest increase in funding for Welsh Rugby of the last five years and are simply asking the WRU as the governing body for support in this."

Sure they have. Must have really tough for them getting PRL to agree, and as it's tied to this fantasy RCC the WRU will not agree.

Think the WRU are meeting on Monday. Maybe mention of new regions?

I'm a great property developer. Don't tell me Monopoly money doesn't count.

Now that is a great read.  A very direct up your bum to the WRU statement/non-statement.  I love comments like these:
'The WRU has failed miserably..........."
This upcoming week will be most entertaining (assuming Rugby does not get destroyed).

Sup up your beer and collect your fags,
there's a row going on, mun.

Looks like a suicide note to me. Bye bye RRW.

justified sinner wrote:Looks like a suicide note to me. Bye bye RRW.

Not a suicide note, bro.
As Dave says, we have a good solid rumble coming:
The Regions seem ready for a good, old fashioned bare knuckle job.
The WRU wrote their note like they are on their way to a manicure.

HammerofThunor wrote:

Munchkin wrote:Strong words from RRW. Had to laugh at the following though:

"In only two months, the Welsh Regions have themselves, negotiated the biggest increase in funding for Welsh Rugby of the last five years and are simply asking the WRU as the governing body for support in this."

Sure they have. Must have really tough for them getting PRL to agree, and as it's tied to this fantasy RCC the WRU will not agree.

Think the WRU are meeting on Monday. Maybe mention of new regions?

I'm a great property developer. Don't tell me Monopoly money doesn't count.

   Next to chess, Monopoly is my favourite board game. It counts!

I that case I have millions. Perhaps I should buy Bath and Sarries, if only to get rid of Wray and Craig

Actually I think the letter was a good idea. It does shows they are communicating to the member clubs. I can remember a time when something like this was way to professional for them. It shows how the Union has progressed as a organisation.

I think the Regions are missing a point with the whole issue here. It's not all about money. This is about the impact of the game nationally and throughout the other smaller nations.

Its lunacy to pretend that the welsh regions will ever have the commercial clout of the English and French so aligning yourself with them will only cost you in the long term. The WRU know if rugby outside of England & France is to have any long term future there is a need to stand together (not just Wales but as Ireland, Italy, Scotland & the SH nations as well).

The deal on offer may be for more than they get now, but sometimes taking the quick buck isn't the answer. I totally agree with the WRU stand point. Selling the other nations down the river for self gain will surely destroy any movement we have made for a global game.

This just in from RRW: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/25606481

What a farce! I read the WRU's letter and I thought "I can see their perspective." I felt the same when I read the RRW/Fans meeting minutes. RRW have shown enough of their own "vitriol." This response totally lacks class and composure. Both sides are full of a**e. Between them they are managing to ostracise the very fan base the game depends on. Idiots!

Welshmushroom, I get where you are coming from,and it is a great thing the the WRU is communicating to the clubs. A good mate is chairman of his club in the Ospreys region. The other day he told me he feels the WRU had not communicated much at all and had certainly not shared their position or point of view except for a few curt statements. So clearly a step in the right direction.

On the other hand, I have never seen the WRU show any interest in other nations. Only time they do is when they are looking to sell their support for RWC bids to host RWC matches.

Totallybiasedscarlet wrote:This just in from RRW: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/25606481

What a farce! I read the WRU's letter and I thought "I can see their perspective." I felt the same when I read the RRW/Fans meeting minutes. RRW have shown enough of their own "vitriol." This response totally lacks class and composure. Both sides are full of a**e. Between them they are managing to ostracise the very fan base the game depends on. Idiots!

Aye and we're back to monkey tennis again it seems.
Rog should request a meeting with RRW to discuss anything and everything, I reckon.

......and it should be private.

Cardiff Dave wrote:

Totallybiasedscarlet wrote:This just in from RRW: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/25606481

What a farce! I read the WRU's letter and I thought "I can see their perspective." I felt the same when I read the RRW/Fans meeting minutes. RRW have shown enough of their own "vitriol." This response totally lacks class and composure. Both sides are full of a**e. Between them they are managing to ostracise the very fan base the game depends on. Idiots!

Aye and we're back to monkey tennis again it seems.
Rog should request a meeting with RRW to discuss anything and everything, I reckon.

Sounds like fun    have you asked Alan if he's still working on it?

These two cliques are in danger of killing off the game as a serious player in Wales. They have got to learn, not only to work together, but to build bridges with all the clubs and fans around the country. Welsh rugby can only be strong when everyone pulls together. Both parties are trying to have their way - like a pair of toddlers arguing over who's in charge. Grud I'm sick of it.

Sadly or maybe not

There can only be one top dog its got to be the WRU the Regions have had the opportunity to do well over many years and have failed.

But negotiations in private are the only way forward for the regions.

Allty wrote:Sadly or maybe not

There can only be one top dog its got to be the WRU the Regions have had the opportunity to do well over many years and have failed.

But negotiations in private are the only way forward for the regions.

NO, this where you are so WRONG. Under the old PA the Regions were not allowed to criticise the WRU at all, NOW that that PA is out of the way RRW are allowed to say EXACTLY what has been going on, and if you have an OPEN MIND, which I suspect you haven't, you would have to be swayed somewhat.

Totallybiasedscarlet wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:

Totallybiasedscarlet wrote:This just in from RRW: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/25606481

What a farce! I read the WRU's letter and I thought "I can see their perspective." I felt the same when I read the RRW/Fans meeting minutes. RRW have shown enough of their own "vitriol." This response totally lacks class and composure. Both sides are full of a**e. Between them they are managing to ostracise the very fan base the game depends on. Idiots!

Aye and we're back to monkey tennis again it seems.
Rog should request a meeting with RRW to discuss anything and everything, I reckon.

Sounds like fun    have you asked Alan if he's still working on it?

These two cliques are in danger of killing off the game as a serious player in Wales. They have got to learn, not only to work together, but to build bridges with all the clubs and fans around the country. Welsh rugby can only be strong when everyone pulls together. Both parties are trying to have their way - like a pair of toddlers arguing over who's in charge. Grud I'm sick of it.

Ahaaaarggguuurrhhh.....
They're not even arguing properly though. They'd have to face each other other first to do that and they can't even agree on how to meet up FFS.