The right time to bow out

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A memory stands out for me in 1992. I was at the World XV game in NZ's centenary year. Auckland were still a powerhouse team but there were many in the twilight of their careers. Players like Erroneous Clark and Lee Stencilcase never really made a big impression on the All Blacks but there were still a good deal of Auckland players who were considered integral members of the national side. On the wing, you had the excitement of Inga the winger and the legend that was John Kirwan. I was in the stands that was then called Lancaster Park (and to be honest still bears that name for me. I'm in denial over the subsequent name changes) and felt ashamed of my fellow one-eyed Cantabs. A legend of the game that had made the original run of 'that try' which had since then been replicated thousands of times (or at least attempted) by Kiwi kids of my generation came off the bench and made his way onto the field. His arrival was met with a chorus of boos from the stands. I felt disgusted. How could they let regional preferences get in the way of national loyalty? John Timu was a cut above anything Canterbury had to offer at that time and he was not fit to lace the boots of Kirwan in terms of his overall standing in NZ's national side. I felt angry that the crowd were putting province before country. I remember saying to my father 'why are they booing a legend of the game?'

Contrast that with the retirement of Ali Williams. Even Aucklanders met the announcement of his retirement with relief. How could someone who had served NZ rugby so loyally get such treatment from the NZ public. After all this was a guy who, after sustaining yet another ankle injury, played himself back into the national side by playing in some obscure English side (apologies to any fans of Nottingham) in order to recapture some form and fitness in order to put himself in the running for the 2011 RWC. Are we that cold when we believe a veteran player is no longer fit (in the sense of worthiness)to be picked? That lack of sentiment does not run to NZ. George Gregan encountered similar resistance in the twilight of his career, Ronan O'Gara was like a Cohen film sequel starring in O'Gara Why Art Thou, John Smit was picked ahead of Du Plessis much to the consternation of many Bok fans.

It's scary to think that icons of the NZ game, McCaw and Carter, are already experiencing the seeds of doubt as they near the end of their illustrious careers. It seems dirty to call into doubt their selection in the team but those doubts will quickly turn into unshakeable beliefs before too long, if they haven't already.

So what makes them stay on and outstay their welcome? Is it the players' fault. Is targeting a World Cup to bow out a selfish thing? Not if your name is Brad Thorn. A man like Frank Bunce where 'old age' was not seen as an impediment to their selection nor indeed a reason to call for an end to it. If a player believes he deserves to have the curtains drawn on his career at the time of his choosing, then that is a dangerous belief to hold. Mils Muliaina may well have wanted to play in that final and maybe he targeted or felt able to play in that final in 2011 but the coaching staff had other ideas and placed their faith in a younger player, Dagg.

So are coaches to blame? You can forgive a player who still retains a burning desire to play in the national side and will give their all until the axe is called on their career. Some choose to call when that axe falls instead of waiting for someone else to make the decision but Ali Williams didn't receive much in the way of gratitude or respect for doing so, for example, and his honourable actions elicited comments like he did what the coaches / selectors couldn't do (myself included!). That's the thanks you get for doing the right thing! As in zero gratitude.

When a coach continues to wheel out a veteran (not literally in a wheelchair. None has been that sadistic so far), the cry invariably is we are denying the development of a younger player. He's had his time and it's time for someone new now. Reading between the lines is not difficult. Ruck off. We need someone better now. Implying there is someone better or at least potentially better. In the case of BOD, for example, has he stuck around for as long as he has because there has been no other realistic option or is it more a case of his persistent selection denies any development of another player. If a player like Fourie leaves at some might say the height of his game then we believe we are being denied the talents of a player like JDV who seems to age like a good wine: he somehow gets better. He is called selfish or we call into question his motives. Kaino is another who falls into that equation. Someone like Flood, who hardly gained consistent selection turns his back on the national side and my impression is that many English fans see his departure with indifference. A significant number may see his departure with regret just like many in Ireland view with trepidation Sexton's move to Racing. Contrast that with Mowen, who turns down a chance as Wallaby captain to go to the World Cup, and many Aussie fans react to his decision with bewilderment.

Where do we draw the line between a player bowing out too early and a player bowing out too late? Does it depend on the makeup of the side? If a player leaves the national side and there is no clear equivalent is his departure met with more sadness than a player like Smit who had a clear alternative to him waiting already on the sidelines? Is it better when a coach doesn't pick a player or is it preferable for the player in question to make that call? Is it better to leave on a high or is it better to leave when you don't have it in you anymore? Burn that wick to the very end or go out in a bright flame so to speak? Should a veteran player be afforded that luxury or is the interests of the team paramount and individual priorities don't exist? If it's the latter then a player like JDV should be axed now. Would you make that call in the interests of the side gazing into your crystal ball focused on the 2015 RWC if you were Meyer? I sure wouldn't. But has it crossed Meyer's mind or should it? Will he or should he be looking closely at his performance and if his performance starts to slip how much grace do you give him to recover his form? Players like Habana, Conrad Smith or Jane are nearing the end of their careers. I get the impression their respective coaches are not wishing to pull the plug on their careers just yet but is there talk of early retirement yet?

It's certainly a difficult balance to make and I wouldn't want to be in the coach's or player's position to make that kind of call. Richie McCaw has said if the desire is not there he know it will be time to make that call. But what if the desire is still there but not the performance? Does he still gladly or at least freely make that call or is the call made for him?

My personal guess was it was the exact opposite. Johnson who himself had suffered Clive Woodward's oppressive regime of team meetings and schedules to relieve themselves to optimise metabolisms might have felt his way of allowing a boys stag do of a tour may have got a little out of hand?

He tried to run with the foxes, hunt with the hounds and toss with the dwarves and it all went to custard.

I think the unluckiest was Ashton. I really think England missed an opportunity with his dismissal to build on their creativity and backline play. The guy seemed to have a smart rugby brain and fell on his sword because results didn't come soon enough. The same happened to Johnson but the media storm over off the field incidents made his staying on untenable.

Coaches are unlike players in that they rarely bow out. They get pushed out. In the case of NZ, continuity was proved to be not such a terrible thing and mistakes rectified. Then again is Ted not only an exceptional coach but also a glaring exception. It seems a very rare thing for coaches to set the terms of their retirement like some players do.

fa0019 wrote:I actually didn't think Moody outstayed his welcome.

He was a good player and he offered leadership... the problem was that Johnson was continually rebelled against (which is amazing really). To place the problems on his door is an obtuse outlook on things IMO. Johnson simply didn't have the respect in the dressing room... that was apparent well before Moody got back in the team and regained the captaincy... it was endemic.

Have to say I disagree, he was clearly struggling and probably half the player Haskell was during that WC. It was a very, very poor selection and I think far more important for losing that game than anything else.

GloriousEmpire wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

GloriousEmpire wrote:
Twisted my back and quit smoking. It's hard to be clever when you're constantly irritated and in agonising pain.

Feel your pain. I had my second root canal treatment on the same tooth last night. When I got home the temporary filling fell out.

I have spent €3000 and had 8 dental apointments on the same tooth. Want to kill someone.

Hang in there on the cigarette quitting.

Seriously? That's horrific. I had an awful time with a botched root canal procedure. In the end I had it fixed by a specialist endodontist on Harley Street. Not only the most futuristic medical experiment I'd ever had (felt like I was being treated on the bridge of the starship enterprise), but he charged me just £700 to fix up the whole botched mess, and I haven't had a days trouble since.  Plus the most med pain killers were awesome.

If you're still getting grief let me know and I'll pass on his details.  The cosmetics to fix up the broken tooth on top afterwards cost a fair whack, but if I had been a bit more modest about appearance, that too could've been avoided.

Yeah I have been really unlucky. There is usually only three canals but the second time round they found a fourth that had been causing the problems. Three infections. I went to the best dentist in Ireland this time to ensure best chances of doing it right. She took photos of my tooth to show her students in TCD a case of a hidden canal.

fa0019 wrote:I actually didn't think Moody outstayed his welcome.

He was a good player and he offered leadership... the problem was that Johnson was continually rebelled against (which is amazing really). To place the problems on his door is an obtuse outlook on things IMO. Johnson simply didn't have the respect in the dressing room... that was apparent well before Moody got back in the team and regained the captaincy... it was endemic.

I agree. Moody was an exceptional player. I dont think any of the current England back row are as good as he was.

moody was a good player, and great leader by example. but not a great player. excessive disregard for personal safety does not in my book indicate greatness of skill. courage yes. skill and effectiveness no.

in the modern game, i think moody barely holds a candle to steffon armitage, and his predilection for injuring himself would mean robshaw would always be ahead of him on the team sheet.

just my opinions obviously.

If Steffan Armitage was so go he would be in the England squad never mind team. He is not though because he isnt good enough. He is just a very good player who plays with the biggest pack in the world.

Accept your point re Moody and personal safety. I admire that sort of thing though.

all england players in france are not available for squad selection under SL currently, so whether steffon armitage is good enough doesnt come into it unfortunately for england fans.

he's now starting at 8 for toulon every match!

he's 5ft by 5ft and basically the most powerful ball stealer imaginable