New European cup. (Or whatever it's called) Qualification agreed? Part 2

Notch wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:Notch bt is in Ireland and is also common.. Its given out free with something bt broadcasts in the whole of UK and ireland

Yeah, but they won't have it free long term.

Sin é wrote:They have pulled out of ROI - the only thing they have to sell in Ireland is through a subscribtion to Setanta. The Pro 12 will remain on FTA services like RTE, BBCNI and TG4 in Ireland.

nathan wrote:

Sin é wrote:They have pulled out of ROI - the only thing they have to sell in Ireland is through a subscribtion to Setanta. The Pro 12 will remain on FTA services like RTE, BBCNI and TG4 in Ireland.

So after saying "BT have nothing to flog in Ireland" youve now changed to "the only thing they have to sell in Ireland is through a subscribtion to Setanta"

BT are very much alive in all of ireland. Mainly in IT Services.

mystiroakey wrote:What point are you trying to make Sin e?

sentanta just have the exclusive rights to sell BT sports channels(which include bt sport 1 , 2 and espn) in ireland.

in the uk you get it through virgin or sky, or you can still buy it direct.

but the major point of this is that BT sport have the EXCULSIVE rights to show certain sport(like 40 odd pl games plus more) in the UK and ireland.. No other broadcaster can sell those games in the UK or IRELAND

so yes off course BT SPORT have something to sell. They just use a middle man only

HammerofThunor wrote:

Sin é wrote:

HammerofThunor wrote:Why on Earth would having a third of the teams being in a failing league be good for the broadcasters? That makes no sense (unless you're a believer in some of the crazier conspirancy theories).

And they don't want to own rugby (that's just an out of context quote that is thrown around).  The were taking about the TV rights and specifically the English club game.

They wanted to break up the Celtic/Italian Union alliance in the Pro12 which were the main obstacles to the BT Cup competition. They wet hoping that the Irish & Welsh (they didn't care about the rest) would come crawling on their knees to play in their competition.

Why would anyone want to 'own' even English rugby. That comment put the wind up the Unions - it just shows that BT are not really very smart at all.

Again, it's 'own' the English club rugby TV rights. And the reason would be so that people who want to watch English club rugby have to subscriber to BT Sports (or get BT broadband and get BT Sports FREE). I thought that was obvious.

I'm sorry, but when were they trying to break up the Celtic/Italian alliance of the PRO12? Was this before they knew about the Sky deal or after? And was it before or after they back away and said they didn't want to cause problems (something sevel posters jumped on cackling that BT were abandoning the PRL)? Time to put the tin-foil hat on again before the PRL mind control wray kicks in again.

BT Sport wrote:"We are looking to set up, or at least help set up, a dazzling new European tournament with a fantastic new format, with, we hope, all the best clubs," he told http://www.sportspromedia.com.

"And we've secured, from the English Premiership, the rights to that for the UK. That tournament will be the successor to the Heineken Cup, which is a very successful tournament.

"The Heineken Cup, under its current contract, has another season to run, and that will be the end of it, and we are looking to set up a brand new tournament from then.

"We saw in rugby an opportunity to own a sport exclusively, certainly at club level, and the rights that we've bought give us an opportunity to do that.

mystiroakey wrote:

Notch wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:Notch bt is in Ireland and is also common.. Its given out free with something bt broadcasts in the whole of UK and ireland

Yeah, but they won't have it free long term.

so neither will anyone else in the UK either!

BT televise in the UK and Ireland.

there is no hit for Ireland over the UK as you suggest.

It is the same in NI , Ireland or england,scotland or wales

Notch wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:

Notch wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:Notch bt is in Ireland and is also common.. Its given out free with something bt broadcasts in the whole of UK and ireland

Yeah, but they won't have it free long term.

so neither will anyone else in the UK either!

BT televise in the UK and Ireland.

there is no hit for Ireland over the UK as you suggest.

It is the same in NI , Ireland or england,scotland or wales

BT Sport is free with BT broadband, at least temporarily. BT only provide broadband to business customers in Ireland so Irish fans will have to pay from the off, whereas many fans and BT customers in the UK will be able to take advantage of the free with broadband offer.

So yes, Irish fans will be hit in the short-term.

mystiroakey wrote:I dont really want an argument mate and as much as I want to retort i wont call you an idiot.

but a i will leave you with a few key points.

BT dont care about the PRO 12 in the way you think they do. Yes they will sponsor the odd team. But broadcasting the pro 12 is truly one of the lowest priorities it has.

BT do care about a long term gain on BT sport.

Sin é wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:I dont really want an argument mate and as much as I want to retort i wont call you an idiot.

but a i will leave you with a few key points.

BT dont care about the PRO 12 in the way you think they do. Yes they will sponsor the odd team. But broadcasting the pro 12 is truly one of the lowest priorities it has.

BT do care about a long term gain on BT sport.

We're not in disagreement here. As far as I can see, BT are only interested in UK broadband and they became interested in the PRO 12 as soon as they sold the broadcasting rights of the PRO 12 to Sky, who will be concentrating on the English market because the PRO 12 will be on Free to Air services (RTE, TG4 & BBCNI) on the island of Ireland. As far as I know, BBC Wales will also be broadcasting it as well.

HammerofThunor wrote:

Sin é wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:I dont really want an argument mate and as much as I want to retort i wont call you an idiot.

but a i will leave you with a few key points.

BT dont care about the PRO 12 in the way you think they do. Yes they will sponsor the odd team. But broadcasting the pro 12 is truly one of the lowest priorities it has.

BT do care about a long term gain on BT sport.

We're not in disagreement here. As far as I can see, BT are only interested in UK broadband and they became interested in the PRO 12 as soon as they sold the broadcasting rights of the PRO 12 to Sky, who will be concentrating on the English market because the PRO 12 will be on Free to Air services (RTE, TG4 & BBCNI) on the island of Ireland. As far as I know, BBC Wales will also be broadcasting it as well.

Have the FTA contracts been renews then? Last I had heard none of them had (
I'm sure they're just waiting on what the pro12 make up is).

Regarding 'ownership' and your quote. Well the rights do NOT give them 'ownership' of 'club rugby' exclusively (they don't have any pro12, or SH rugby). It DOES give them 'ownership' of the broadcasting for the 'English club rugby' exclusively (if you're happy to discount the development comp, the LV).

And again, what makes you think BT only got interested in sponsoring the pro12 following sky getting the rights? Was that not the first time a contract was up following them getting into sports broadcasting? And what is the point? You claimed it was because BT wanted to weaken the Pro12 so they would come running back to the RCC. Care to expand on the mechanism.

HammerofThunor wrote:If you look at that statement with the context that BT are a sports broadcasters then it seems pretty clear to me.

I can see how you can read more into it but only if you want to

HammerofThunor wrote:Because the English teams would be playing in it? That's just off the top of my head.  As you've already said, they turned down the chance to bid for the Pro12, so they clearly don't want to 'own' international, or even european, club rugby.

But line by line

"And we've secured, from the English Premiership, the rights to that for the UK."  

No idea what 'that' is. Have you missed out some of the quote?

"That tournament will be the successor to the Heineken Cup, which is a very successful tournament."

Ah, is 'that' the 'RCC'? But this is saying, the HEC is successful.

"The Heineken Cup, under its current contract, has another season to run, and that will be the end of it, and we are looking to set up a brand new tournament from then."

The current ERC participation agreement runs out the season after the season that comment was made.  Then they're going to look at setting up a new competition, a.k.a. RCC.

"We saw in rugby an opportunity to own a sport exclusively, certainly at club level, and the rights that we've bought give us an opportunity to do that."

Ok, there are two immediate ways to read this one. One, he thinks they 'own' the sport because they've signed a broadcasting agreement (I'm not even sure what 'own' means in terms of what you're suggesting). Other than having a say on match scheduling, interviews, etc.  Also, he thinks that buying the broadcast rights to the English league games and English European games gives him 'ownership' of all club rugby (international or European, your pick).

Two, they wanted to own the exclusive broadcast rights to an Enlgish club sport and the rugby unions ones was the one they went for (because it was avalable).

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:Am I the only one that is slightly bothered by the highlighted statement?  Basically an executive from a broadcasting/telecomms/medjia company is going to set up a sports tournament?  Why?

SecretFly wrote:GREED!!!!!!!!!

I really do want 606 to invent an evil laugh emoticon for such moments!

Notch wrote:

SecretFly wrote:GREED!!!!!!!!!

I really do want 606 to invent an evil laugh emoticon for such moments!

Notch wrote:

Notch wrote:

SecretFly wrote:GREED!!!!!!!!!

I really do want 606 to invent an evil laugh emoticon for such moments!

Only admins can add smilies though.

HammerofThunor wrote:We all have biased views. I certainly have mine.

I understand why they did it the way they did it. Sky and various unions (mainly the RFU) have been too cozy for too long. I wonder if BT were even given a chance at the ERC competitions. That would certainly explain why the action was taken. But that is completely made up based on no information, like most of the accusations on here.

SecretFly wrote:

Notch wrote:

Notch wrote:

SecretFly wrote:GREED!!!!!!!!!

I really do want 606 to invent an evil laugh emoticon for such moments!

Only admins can add smilies though.

Aww...that's perfect.  Just add it to the list.  Or..am I being a fool here and it's already there?

mystiroakey wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

Notch wrote:

Notch wrote:

SecretFly wrote:GREED!!!!!!!!!

I really do want 606 to invent an evil laugh emoticon for such moments!

Only admins can add smilies though.

Aww...that's perfect.  Just add it to the list.  Or..am I being a fool here and it's already there?

SF you can use pretty much any emotcion you want with a little amount of knowledge    

SecretFly wrote:...Broadcasting companies should stay the hell away from the formative talks on what kind of competition it is they are going to try to buy.  No - you're told what's on offer and you either say you're interested in bidding or you're not...

HammerofThunor wrote:Fly, I agree that should be the way but unfortunately it's not. As Sin e has already quoted from that Feehan guy (6 Nations and Celtic Rugby CEO, I think) the reason the 6 Nations is played in the mud and the ran of late winter/early spring is because the broadcasters have a time slot at that time of year. The reason we have Friday and Sunday games is because the broadcasters like them and dislike all Saturday games even though they're better for the fans.  The reason the ERC competitions are spread over the year is so you need to subscribe all year to watch them rather than a couple of months.

Munchkin, the PRL were one name on the committee (out of 9). McCafferty was apparently at some undisclosed point (that I've never seen anything more than an out of date ESPN profile to back up).  So one 9th of the vote is heavily involved?

There's no reason to think that Sky weren't given a chance to bid for the PRL rights is there? But it's stated as fact often.

As for the cozy relationship being successful, well we can't say can we? We have no idea if a different TV company would have do it differently. Don't get me wrong the wonga sure did help. Oh memories of all the complaints over the Anglo-centric nature of Sky and their ridiculous over-hyping and then slamming of players and teams. Back before all this kicked off and Sky became beacons of true rugby broadcasting.

Rugby Fan wrote:

SecretFly wrote:...Broadcasting companies should stay the hell away from the formative talks on what kind of competition it is they are going to try to buy.  No - you're told what's on offer and you either say you're interested in bidding or you're not...

That is one of the worst ways a professional sport could go about dealing with media partners. The same applies to relationships with sponsors.

You want the highest level of commitment from all your partners. You want them to share responsibility for marketing the sport, you want them to commit significant resources, and you want them to be proud and eager to be associated with the sport.

You don't get that by showing them you feel like holding your nose every time they come near you.

SecretFly wrote:...If your partners have a vested interest and that vested interest doesn't mind closing down and shutting up a competitior then nope...it's just dangerous on every level - as we've seen from the months of infighting that has taken place in rugby where trust has gone out the door in many areas of the game ,and will take some time to get back.  

BT shouldn't have been where they turned up.  They just shouldn't have been there allying themselves to a single vested interest group in the internal dynamics of a sport that BT doesn't belong to.

Nope.  Not a word you say in explanation, or in support of BTs entry into the debate in the pocket of PRL, will change that fundamental view that I have.
Broadcasting companies - keep your fingers out of admin.