Wales captain Sam Warburton signs WRU central contract

First topic message reminder :

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/25896487

Central Contract?

Well this was coming, so what happens now?

I though that the regions wouldn't play Centrally contracted players, but Lewis said

"I am extremely grateful to the Cardiff Blues chairman, Peter Thomas, for his understanding when the WRU chairman [David Pickering] and I met him on Wednesday to outline this proposed plan.

So have Cardiff Blues broken rank? or has there been a change in stance by all the regions?

Its good news for Cardiff Blues fans, and fans of the Pro 12 to be keeping a top player, but will it end or make the infighting worse?

Cardiff Dave wrote:I'm puzzled as to why one Welsh captain has accepted a WRU contract and our other Welsh captain has declined a WRU contract?

 
AWJ has said it was hard, but he wants to play for the Ospreys, and the only way to be certain was to sign for them.  He admitted he has signed not knowing what competitions they will be in, but said signing for the union would be the same thing, but he would not be certain of being able to play for the Ospreys.  HE has also said that only time will tell if he made the right decision or not.  Fair play, like I said on the thread about him signng for the Ospreys, I am not a big fan of his, but he does come across as an honest person who doesn't avoid saying what he is thinking.

I guess it just comes to what the players see themselves as. Alun Wyn Jones has been with the Ospreys longer than he has with Wales and has more trophies with the Ospreys too. Sam has been with both pretty much from day one, and has greater success with the union. Also the union contract means access to the union facilities for training/rehab so with Sam's injury rate that may be a real bonus for him.

(hope that was a fair appraisal of the two).

Because AWruJ isn't as good as WRUburton.

But I like WRU£urton better.   

Cardiff Dave wrote:I'm puzzled as to why one Welsh captain has accepted a WRU contract and our other Welsh captain has declined a WRU contract?

does seem odd doesnt it.

AJW to date has only captained Wales once in 2009. Why is it do you think that in the past any time Warburton was injured guys like Gethin Jenkins, Ryan Jones, Matthew Rees and even Bradley Davies were all favoured ahead of him.

I believe AWJ will captain Wales v Italy this weekend is that right?

[quote="quinsforever"][quote="Cardiff Dave"]I'm puzzled as to why one Welsh captain has accepted a WRU contract and our other Welsh captain has declined a WRU contract?[/quote]
does seem odd doesnt it.[/quote]

Someone posted earlier his Dad was ill I think I re-posted it

ah i missed that allty cheers. so an emotionally based decision for AWJ then. good for him.

I'm not sure of the facts quinsy

AWJ also said he wanted to play more games.

gcBlues wrote:AWJ also said he wanted to play more games.

And most importantly that he wanted to play at the Ospreys, and there was no certainty of that with a union contract. He did say if there as it would have been a 'more difficult decision', so even then he may have sided with the Ospreys.

Allty wrote:I'm not sure of the facts quinsy

Nor me.

AWJ is being portrayed by some as this high and mighty loyalist person going who choose Region ove Country whilst in other circles Sam is being portrayed as a traitor who has sided with the devil.

BUT how many of us on here know the real ins and outs of things for example:

How good his is Ospreys contract maybe he was simply offered more money by them than by the Region, did any other clubs come in for him (sure they would have) but again have the Os literally broke the bank to keep him.

I know he said the uncertainty of where he would be playing was a big decision but lets say Toulon had come in for him then he would know where he would be playing then and I think that if the money was more from them then he might have gone - who wouldn't?

So playing devils advocate maybe it still is just a case of he stayed where the money was best and maybe no other clubs could match or were willing to match what the Os have gave him.

http://www.cardiffblues.com/news/6785.php#.Uun4_Pn1GuI

The Blues will NOT play Sam Warburton unless the WRU agree to a long term financial model.

Didn't Jones or the Ospreys say that considerations were take due to the uncertain future (or something like that). I imagine that it means if they don't have any games they'll release him.

wales606 wrote:http://www.cardiffblues.com/news/6785.php#.Uun4_Pn1GuI

The Blues will NOT play Sam Warburton unless the WRU agree to a long term financial model.

Haven't they got one?? Its called the Participation Agreement, no?

That ends in 4 months

Odd, I understood it had another 5 years to run?

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

wales606 wrote:http://www.cardiffblues.com/news/6785.php#.Uun4_Pn1GuI

The Blues will NOT play Sam Warburton unless the WRU agree to a long term financial model.

Haven't they got one?? Its called the Participation Agreement, no?

The PA is dead and buried, there is now this Rugby Strategy Plan (of whatever it is called) being drafted up and edited etc. but unless the European and Rabo issues are sorted by midnight tomorrow the regions will not sign, so it comes down to 39hrs until the poop storm kicks up a gear.

bedfordwelsh wrote:

I know he said the uncertainty of where he would be playing was a big decision but lets say Toulon had come in for him then he would know where he would be playing then and I think that if the money was more from them then he might have gone - who wouldn't?

Heaslip and O'Brien are two

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:Odd, I understood it had another 5 years to run?

Then you've not been following this story very closely.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

wales606 wrote:http://www.cardiffblues.com/news/6785.php#.Uun4_Pn1GuI

The Blues will NOT play Sam Warburton unless the WRU agree to a long term financial model.

Haven't they got one?? Its called the Participation Agreement, no?

The PA is dead and buried, there is now this Rugby Strategy Plan (of whatever it is called) being drafted up and edited etc. but unless the European and Rabo issues are sorted by midnight tomorrow the regions will not sign, so it comes down to 39hrs until the poop storm kicks up a gear.

Wasn't there already something in the media this week about an agreement between Regions and PRL (contracts already signed according to the article I read) for a new 16team League, to be announced tomorrow?

The gap between reality and fantasy in rugby union these last few months makes it truly a mockery of a sport in the eyes of the world.  It's getting embarrasing the number of people/sources who appear promising that all is wrapped up and 'contracts is signed!' only for us to hear that it's been yet another childish bluff to try to force more concessions.

So we wait again - this time for tomorrow and what the alleged promise of Friday might bring.

SecretFly wrote:

Wasn't there already something in the media this week about an agreement between Regions and PRL (contracts already signed according to the article I read) for a new 16team League, to be announced tomorrow?

This "deadline" of tomorrow has been in place for a month now. It was a last chance for the Union and regions to agree on a way forward. It's not a knee jerk childish bluff called in the press.

Fly, that is the first thing I have heard of it, and links to the story?

Chunky Norwich wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

Wasn't there already something in the media this week about an agreement between Regions and PRL (contracts already signed according to the article I read) for a new 16team League, to be announced tomorrow?

This "deadline" of tomorrow has been in place for a month now. It was a last chance for the Union and regions to agree on a  way forward. It's not a knee jerk childish bluff called in the press.

Not my point - my point is that someone somewhere is saying contracts are already signed between Regions and PRL. Now either that source is telling the truth and it kinda makes all this talk of 'knowbody knows where they'll be playing next season' a long winded joke - or, the source is lying through his teeth, causing childish mischief in a supposedly professional and businesslike man's game.

I guess I'm saying many characters in this rugby Union epic of the last few months need to grow up and either have something solid to say in public (real facts) or shut up in public (bluff and bluster)

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Fly, that is the first thing I have heard of it, and links to the story?

https://2img.net/h/i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag123/dlp121081/39cec8ece950ef11532867930aaeaac4_zps6db149d8.jpg

SecretFly wrote:

Not my point - my point is that someone somewhere is saying contracts are already signed between Regions and PRL.  Now either that source is telling the truth and it kinda makes all this talk of 'knowbody knows where they'll be playing next season' a long winded joke - or, the source is lying through his teeth, causing childish mischief in a supposedly professional and businesslike man's game.

I guess I'm saying many characters in this rugby Union epic of the last few months need to grow up and either have something solid to say in public (real facts) or shut up in public (bluff and bluster)

It doesn't at all. The competition is still likely to need sanctioning. This is just the first, important step on the road to making it happen

Chunky...................... how many times have I been over this before on the other end of this debate (namely the European element) - you don't sign contracts unless you've resolved all those 'maybes' in your favour - legal people don't allow their clients to sign contracts unless the 'sanctioned' element is looked into and all necessary pending legalities sorted.

But, you're right - for some strange reason, a whole bunch of rugby bodies in recent months seem to think contracts can be signed off the cuff - worry about the legal ramifications after the done deal.  Bizarre business sense and the main reason we're all where we're at - not knowing where our teams will be playing next year.

SecretFly wrote: you don't sign contracts unless you've resolved all those 'maybes' in your favour - legal people don't allow their clients to sign contracts unless the 'sanctioned' element is looked into and all necessary pending legalities sorted.
.

Well 3 of the welsh team have signed 3 different types of contracts in the last week.

If the AW league is a done deal, then happy days all round.

Well.............. perhaps for you guys. It's going to throw up all kinds of extra complexities for the rest of us - and it's certainly going to make 'qualification' for any new Euro contest interesting!!!. What was that we were hearing from PRL - 6 qualifiers per league?

Just a quick mention, not sure where I read it (but I have stolen this off someone somewhere and am paraphrasing, sorry) Sam's contract is going to cost every club within Wales £1,000 a year! And now it seams that is £1,000 a year for 4 AIs, 5 6Ns and 3/4 Summer tour games unless he is injured of course in which it would be less!

SecretFly wrote:Well.............. perhaps for you guys.  It's going to throw up all kinds of extra complexities for the rest of us

If everybody looked after themselves and themselves only, there would be no scope for blame.

Good luck.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Well.............. perhaps for you guys.  It's going to throw up all kinds of extra complexities for the rest of us

If everybody looked after themselves and themselves only, there would be no scope for blame.

Good luck.

Oh believe me - I buy into self-interest in a big way.  I'm with you on that score.  I don't care where the Regions take themselves next season - their business.  But complexities will arise that they might not be considering right now - and I say again 6 places per League would instantly drop Regional chances in pan-European contests.  The complexities of any AW League will not just be with Regions and PRL, the rest of us will be involved in those complexities and demands and strains might show early in the AW league.

SecretFly wrote:

Oh believe me - I buy into self-interest in a big way.  I'm with you on that score.  I don't care where the Regions take themselves next season - their business.

Fantastic. I wish more thought like this. The WRU for example.

But complexities will arise that they might not be considering right now - and I say again 6 places per League would instantly drop Regional chances in pan-European contests.  The complexities of any AW League will not just be with Regions and PRL, the rest of us will be involved in those complexities and demands and strains might show early in the AW league.

If it was 6 places per league, how many teams would be in the new European cup then?

Chunky Norwich wrote:

If it was 6 places per league, how many teams would be in the new European cup then?

Ask the PRL, that's what they've been calling for. We'll see what happens tomorrow and whether the declaration of the new AW League happens. Then there'll be plenty of room (and voices) devoted to the other stuff....

SecretFly wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

If it was 6 places per league, how many teams would be in the new European cup then?

Ask the PRL, that's what they've been calling for.  We'll see what happens tomorrow and whether the declaration of the new AW League happens.  Then there'll be plenty of room (and voices) devoted to the other stuff....

If there's an AW league next hear there probably won't be a European tournament to speak of.

PRL wanted meritocratic qualification on Europe in its CURRENT format. (CL, AP, top14).

If in 2 years, there's a British and Irish League, then it's not just going to be 6 from that league is it. The landscape is changing. For the better.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:

If it was 6 places per league, how many teams would be in the new European cup then?

Ask the PRL, that's what they've been calling for.  We'll see what happens tomorrow and whether the declaration of the new AW League happens.  Then there'll be plenty of room (and voices) devoted to the other stuff....

If there's an AW league next hear there probably won't be a European tournament to speak of.

PRL wanted meritocratic qualification on Europe in its CURRENT format. (CL, AP, top14).

If in 2 years, there's a British and Irish League, then it's not just going to be 6 from that league is it. The landscape is changing. For the better.

The landscape is changing. We'll see if it's better - British and Irish League? No - not better. Who runs that, the PRL? To hell with them fellas.

SecretFly wrote: British and Irish League?  No - not better.  Who runs that, the PRL?  To hell with them fellas.

Whoever wants to. The clubs must be in charge of their own destiny. Those who aren't will die, or lag behind.

Heads in the sand.

We'll see, Chunky. I've seen too many Brave New World proposals in my lifetime to believe in too much propaganda about where rugby can go now. We'll see where it goes. and who turns out happiest at where it ends up going.

I'll remember the enthusiasts and I'll remember the pessimists. We'll see who turns out right.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/25958248


"I hope nobody thinks that I am turning my back on the Blues. I am not. I supported Cardiff as a youngster and have come through their system.," Warburton says. "I am Cardiff through and through and would find it uncomfortable playing for anyone else. If I had not been able to play for the Blues, it would have been back to the drawing board."

"a triumph in the best interests of all Welsh rugby. We have been able to strike a deal which ensures the Welsh captain will continue to play his rugby at the highest level here in Wales," WRU group chief executive Roger Lewis said.

And Warburton's agent, Derwyn Jones had said the player would be "released to the Cardiff Blues at no cost when he is not required for international duty".


Poor Sam, he says he only signed the bigger money WRU contract IF he could play for the Blues, looks like someone involved in his deal (Sam/Roger Lewis/Derwyn Jones), if not all of them, have been telling porkie pies somewhere along the line, especially the regions say no no no no no to playing central contracts

SecretFly wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:

I know he said the uncertainty of where he would be playing was a big decision but lets say Toulon had come in for him then he would know where he would be playing then and I think that if the money was more from them then he might have gone - who wouldn't?

Heaslip and O'Brien are two

The reason they can be persuaded to stay? The miracle of central contracting! The regions really do have their heads in the sand here. They've stated its not economic for them to compete with the French money, but they won't let the Union- who can compete- do so. So all the best players leave Wales.

Not exactly a great long-term strategy is it? Did the regions honestly believe that they could let big-name internationals go and the system would go on unchanged?

ScarletSpiderman wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/25958248


"I hope nobody thinks that I am turning my back on the Blues. I am not. I supported Cardiff as a youngster and have come through their system.," Warburton says.  "I am Cardiff through and through and would find it uncomfortable playing for anyone else. If I had not been able to play for the Blues, it would have been back to the drawing board."

"a triumph in the best interests of all Welsh rugby. We have been able to strike a deal which ensures the Welsh captain will continue to play his rugby at the highest level here in Wales," WRU group chief executive Roger Lewis said.

And Warburton's agent, Derwyn Jones had said the player would be "released to the Cardiff Blues at no cost when he is not required for international duty".


Poor Sam, he says he only signed the bigger money WRU contract IF he could play for the Blues, looks like someone involved in his deal (Sam/Roger Lewis/Derwyn Jones), if not all of them, have been telling porkie pies somewhere along the line, especially the regions say no no no no no to playing central contracts

Warbs seems very confident that he will continue to play for Blues next season. It would be absurd if he hadn't asked Blues how they would react to his signing the CC, and it appears that WRU had a meeting with Thomas prior to that signing. They apparently came to an understanding. Whatever that means. In this I don't believe WRU can be accused of duplicity.
It would be a very bad move now for the Blues to refuse to play Warbs. He is committed to Blues, and apparently Blues get to play him at no cost. Not playing him would be very bad PR.

Notch wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:

I know he said the uncertainty of where he would be playing was a big decision but lets say Toulon had come in for him then he would know where he would be playing then and I think that if the money was more from them then he might have gone - who wouldn't?

Heaslip and O'Brien are two

The reason they can be persuaded to stay? The miracle of central contracting! The regions really do have their heads in the sand here. They've stated its not economic for them to compete with the French money, but they won't let the Union- who can compete- do so. So all the best players leave Wales.

Not exactly a great long-term strategy is it? Did the regions honestly believe that they could let big-name internationals go and the system would go on unchanged?

That's an absurd post. The WRU can't compete with the French any more than the regions can. Especially as if they have it there way they will have to set up three new franchises, provide all their infrastructure, and make them somehow competitive in a poor league with huge logistical waste, no ability to grow supporters and, critically, a derisory TV settlement that it has negotiated for its own side to the benefit of the other nations that comprise the league. They will need to do all this whilst continuing to denude said teams of their stars for large chunks of the season. How are they going to perform this 'miracle', play a few more autumn internationals in the hope that pink cowboy-hatted slappers are willing to fork out to watch Australia stuff us a couple of extra times per season?

Notch wrote:The reason they can be persuaded to stay? The miracle of central contracting! The regions really do have their heads in the sand here. They've stated its not economic for them to compete with the French money, but they won't let the Union- who can compete- do so. So all the best players leave Wales.

Not exactly a great long-term strategy is it? Did the regions honestly believe that they could let big-name internationals go and the system would go on unchanged?

It's not quite as simply as that is it? The WRU have always said there was not enough money to central contract everyone and if they were offered it would come out of the money the regions already get. So let's say the Blues offered Warburton £200k, the WRU give him £300k which comes out of the regional money. The regions are now worse off financially and potentially could be seeing even less of the player.

Of course the WRU have done a bit of a U-turn in that they're saying this money is on top of the current payment (I'm guessing it's that £1M they said was floating around).

The pink cowboy hatted slappers show up, Motif.  

What's the Region's policies on their fans showing up - or not, as the case may be?  

I'm an outsider looking in for sure, but Regions always seem to have external things to blame for their own lack of movement on getting interest growing in their teams and in getting more on-field success coming to them.  There always seems to be an external culprit.  Aren't they in charge of their own business models to an extent and have they proved wise heads in that area for however many years since their inception?

Munchkin wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/25958248


"I hope nobody thinks that I am turning my back on the Blues. I am not. I supported Cardiff as a youngster and have come through their system.," Warburton says.  "I am Cardiff through and through and would find it uncomfortable playing for anyone else. If I had not been able to play for the Blues, it would have been back to the drawing board."

"a triumph in the best interests of all Welsh rugby. We have been able to strike a deal which ensures the Welsh captain will continue to play his rugby at the highest level here in Wales," WRU group chief executive Roger Lewis said.

And Warburton's agent, Derwyn Jones had said the player would be "released to the Cardiff Blues at no cost when he is not required for international duty".


Poor Sam, he says he only signed the bigger money WRU contract IF he could play for the Blues, looks like someone involved in his deal (Sam/Roger Lewis/Derwyn Jones), if not all of them, have been telling porkie pies somewhere along the line, especially the regions say no no no no no to playing central contracts

Warbs seems very confident that he will continue to play for Blues next season. It would be absurd if he hadn't asked Blues how they would react to his signing the CC, and it appears that WRU had a meeting with Thomas prior to that signing. They apparently came to an understanding. Whatever that means. In this I don't believe WRU can be accused of duplicity.
It would be a very bad move now for the Blues to refuse to play Warbs. He is committed to Blues, and apparently Blues get to play him at no cost. Not playing him would be very bad PR.

When is he going to play then? Even if he wasn't made of glass your solution is for the region to arguably sacrifice a settled side for the good of one player. It's also hardly good PR for Rog and his WRU cronies to say to Warburton "you're ok, you can wrap yourself in cotton wool and pick and choose the odd game for the Blues if you fancy it", whilst at the same time saying to the likes of Navidi and Ellis "sod you pair, you can be flogged like slaves all gruelling season long, in a team we purposely underfund for our own benefit. Unless of course, Sam fancies twenty minutes before the six nations".

Don't miss round four of the Rabo! See Sam Warburton (if the union allows us to use 'our' star players image rights etc, if he fancies it, or if we're not playing Australia twelve times this season) play Zebre at the Arms Park...

Is it Stone? The only major issue I can see is the debt on the Millennium Stadium- the income the union has dwarfs that of the regions. If it's about who has the money to keep the best players in Wales, there is only one option.

SecretFly wrote:The pink cowboy hatted slappers show up, Motif.  

What's the Region's policies on their fans showing up - or not, as the case may be?  

I'm an outsider looking in for sure, but Regions always seem to have external things to blame for their own lack of movement on getting interest growing in their teams and in getting more on-field success coming to them.  There always seems to be an external culprit.  Aren't they in charge of their own business models to an extent and have they proved wise heads in that area for however many years since their inception?

No, the regions have external things to blame for their lack of movement growing interest in their teams and more on-field success. Their own union.

They aren't in charge of their TV rights, their players, their branding, their fixture list or their competitions. They have been expressly forbidden from making greater links with the community clubs that underpin them. How are they in charge of their own businesses? It's an utterly disingenuous accusation to level at them.

Notch wrote:Is it Stone? The only major issue I can see is the debt on the Millennium Stadium- the income the union has dwarfs that of the regions. If it's about who has the money to keep the best players in Wales, there is only one option.

Correct. But you are wrong if you think the WRU have the money unless their own PWC was telling porkies. If you think the cowboy hat brigade on the lash once every six months mean Rog can compete with the big French clubs you should apply to be Rog's accountant. All application forms to be sent to Princess Rog, Westgate St, Cloud Cuckoo Land.

The only option is to grow the game below international level and the union have gone to great lengths to make it moribund from the ground up.

Stone Motif wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/25958248


"I hope nobody thinks that I am turning my back on the Blues. I am not. I supported Cardiff as a youngster and have come through their system.," Warburton says.  "I am Cardiff through and through and would find it uncomfortable playing for anyone else. If I had not been able to play for the Blues, it would have been back to the drawing board."

"a triumph in the best interests of all Welsh rugby. We have been able to strike a deal which ensures the Welsh captain will continue to play his rugby at the highest level here in Wales," WRU group chief executive Roger Lewis said.

And Warburton's agent, Derwyn Jones had said the player would be "released to the Cardiff Blues at no cost when he is not required for international duty".


Poor Sam, he says he only signed the bigger money WRU contract IF he could play for the Blues, looks like someone involved in his deal (Sam/Roger Lewis/Derwyn Jones), if not all of them, have been telling porkie pies somewhere along the line, especially the regions say no no no no no to playing central contracts

Warbs seems very confident that he will continue to play for Blues next season. It would be absurd if he hadn't asked Blues how they would react to his signing the CC, and it appears that WRU had a meeting with Thomas prior to that signing. They apparently came to an understanding. Whatever that means. In this I don't believe WRU can be accused of duplicity.
It would be a very bad move now for the Blues to refuse to play Warbs. He is committed to Blues, and apparently Blues get to play him at no cost. Not playing him would be very bad PR.

When is he going to play then?  Even if he wasn't made of glass your solution is for the region to arguably sacrifice a settled side for the good of one player.  It's also hardly good PR for Rog and his WRU cronies to say to Warburton "you're ok, you can wrap yourself in cotton wool and pick and choose the odd game for the Blues if you fancy it", whilst at the same time saying to the likes of Navidi and Ellis "sod you pair, you can be flogged like slaves all gruelling season long, in a team we purposely underfund for our own benefit.  Unless of course, Sam fancies twenty minutes before the six nations".

Don't miss round four of the Rabo!  See Sam Warburton (if the union allows us to use 'our' star players image rights etc, if he fancies it, or if we're not playing Australia twelve times this season) play Zebre at the Arms Park...

PR isn't always about the reality. It is more about perception.

Well, when does he get to play now? He plays for Blues, and guess what?! He also plays for Wales! Blues had offered to pay him £200k for signing. I'm very sure that £200k wasn't conditional on him not playing for Wales again, and so maybe your question should be directed at Blues management...

Dreaming up hypothetical's to suit your argument doesn't really work.

Stone Motif wrote:

Notch wrote:Is it Stone? The only major issue I can see is the debt on the Millennium Stadium- the income the union has dwarfs that of the regions. If it's about who has the money to keep the best players in Wales, there is only one option.

Correct.  But you are wrong if you think the WRU have the money unless their own PWC was telling porkies.  If you think the cowboy hat brigade on the lash once every six months mean Rog can compete with the big French clubs you should apply to be Rog's accountant.  All application forms to be sent to Princess Rog, Westgate St, Cloud Cuckoo Land.

The only option is to grow the game below international level and the union have gone to great lengths to make it moribund from the ground up.

Then the question has to be asked- if the IRFU can afford to directly pay about 20 players out of the money they generate from test rugby, if the SARU, NZRU and ARU can do the same- why is the WRU falling behind?

Less sponsorship? More stadium debt? Less gate receipts? Because certainly it works extremely well in other countries. You can't deny it.

Stone Motif wrote:

SecretFly wrote:The pink cowboy hatted slappers show up, Motif.  

What's the Region's policies on their fans showing up - or not, as the case may be?  

I'm an outsider looking in for sure, but Regions always seem to have external things to blame for their own lack of movement on getting interest growing in their teams and in getting more on-field success coming to them.  There always seems to be an external culprit.  Aren't they in charge of their own business models to an extent and have they proved wise heads in that area for however many years since their inception?

No, the regions have external things to blame for their lack of movement growing interest in their teams and more on-field success.  Their own union.  

They aren't in charge of their TV rights, their players, their branding, their fixture list or their competitions.  They have been expressly forbidden from making greater links with the community clubs that underpin them.  How are they in charge of their own businesses?  It's an utterly disingenuous accusation to level at them.

.

None ...none of those reasons were used over the last few years as arguments.  They're being used now... but they weren't being used as Welsh people went to war with each other on threads going way back, over many years. about the lack of support for Regions and the lack of crowds etc.  Then the reasons given were traditional clubs (and history of those clubs) v these new regions that nobody wants.  It wasn't financial mismanagement by the WRU I was hearing about but the fundamental inability of many Welsh rugby fans to offer any kind of allegiances to Regions.

Even the PRL AP is overseen by Union rules - Union rules forcing certain infrastructural standards onto any promoted team, Union influencing capping rules.  Unions oversee the game - if nobody wants Union involved in any of it then that's another rugby split down the line in the not too distant future because the club game at this point is a Union game, sanctioned by IRB that was created by Unions.