Wales captain Sam Warburton signs WRU central contract

First topic message reminder :

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/25896487

Central Contract?

Well this was coming, so what happens now?

I though that the regions wouldn't play Centrally contracted players, but Lewis said

"I am extremely grateful to the Cardiff Blues chairman, Peter Thomas, for his understanding when the WRU chairman [David Pickering] and I met him on Wednesday to outline this proposed plan.

So have Cardiff Blues broken rank? or has there been a change in stance by all the regions?

Its good news for Cardiff Blues fans, and fans of the Pro 12 to be keeping a top player, but will it end or make the infighting worse?

Knowsit17 wrote:

I'm also curious SS, in one of your posts you say the Blues also offered Sam a new contract yet the report states that the WRU's offer was the only option he had of staying in Wales. Reports are often selective and distorting, I'll admit but it remains that I've found no details at all about any supposed negotiations between Warbs and the Blues proper. Could you provide a link if possible?

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/jan/25/wales-sam-warburton-welsh-rugby-union-central-contract

The only other offer Warburton had was from the Blues, who were reluctant to budge from the £200,000 a year they tabled last month because his appearances for them have been rationed due to injury. Warburton made the last of his four appearances for the Blues this season in October. He has not played since suffering a shoulder injury playing for Wales against Australia at the end of November and, while the WRU said it intended to release him to the Blues next season free of charge, the country's four regions have an agreement not to play anyone who has a central contract.

whocares - to be honest, I would rather see George North play for Northampton (in a different league) than being paid for by the union (so indirectly by the fans) to play for a rival team in the same league. I know it sounds bitter, but that is the truth. Obviously I would rather that both him, and Halfpenny (Bradley Davies, Jon Davies, Ian Evans maybe) stayed in Wales too, but where they belong, and not turning out in rival colours.

Lord - I hope your right about that. I have been hearing it in other places too, but welsh rugby is like Chinese whispers when there is a sniff of conspiracy theory.

Knowsit here is the exact bit from the article Chunky pointed out (thanks Chunky, I knew I heard it somewhere)

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/jan/25/wales-sam-warburton-welsh-rugby-union-central-contract wrote:The only other offer Warburton had was from the Blues, who were reluctant to budge from the £200,000 a year they tabled last month because his appearances for them have been rationed due to injury. Warburton made the last of his four appearances for the Blues this season in October. He has not played since suffering a shoulder injury playing for Wales against Australia at the end of November and, while the WRU said it intended to release him to the Blues next season free of charge, the country's four regions have an agreement not to play anyone who has a central contract.

Also I think I have answered the question about players moving, in the above bit.

Yep, all good.

I'm in two minds really. I can see your point and agree that it shouldn't be a case of the WRU chopping and changing where a player operates on a whim. At the same time I can't bring myself to feel miserable at a player choosing to stay in Wales under any circumstances.

It would be interesting to identify how other unions who deal through central contracts manage their relations with local clubs/provinces/regions. I haven't observed tension anywhere near this high in terms of, say, how the NZRU allocate contracts and coordinate with the clubs the players concerned are based at.

Knowsit17 wrote:Yep, all good.

I'm in two minds really. I can see your point and agree that it shouldn't be a case of the WRU chopping and changing where a player operates on a whim. At the same time I can't bring myself to feel miserable at a player choosing to stay in Wales under any circumstances.

It would be interesting to identify how other unions who deal through central contracts manage their relations with local clubs/provinces/regions. I haven't observed tension anywhere near this high in terms of, say, how the NZRU allocate contracts and coordinate with the clubs the players concerned are based at.

That's because those Unions don't want to destroy, the aforementioned provinces / clubs.

if certain players are paid by the WRU ,why not leave the choice of the region to the player. so at least he's confortable with that and gives his best?

Knowsit, to be honest if the union had come out and said that come the start of next they would be centrally contracting what they deem to be the first XV in the country, etc. I may not be so aggrieved by it, and probably would have considered saying it was a good/positive move. However the union sat by as the Dragons spent their cash signing Faletau, and they sat on their hands again when the Scarlets lost Foxy, and we are still not even sure if Halfpenny was offered a contract or not. It just smacks of getting a 'big name' on board to make it look like they give a monkeys. And please don't think this is an anti-blues slant, as I will be equally up in arms if Rhys or Scott sign up for Team Roger too.

And, possibly in a few years time when the dust has settled things will look better, and the unions/regions will be used to central contracts and the whole issue will be no more.

whocares wrote:if certain players are paid by the WRU ,why not leave the choice of the region to the player. so at least he's confortable with that and gives his best?

   

Is this a genuine post?

ScarletSpiderman wrote:I will be equally up in arms if Rhys or Scott sign up for Team Roger too.
.

I'd expect it if I were you.

whocares wrote:if certain players are paid by the WRU ,why not leave the choice of the region to the player. so at least he's confortable with that and gives his best?

That's what I thought to. Surely that the player is happy at the region where he plays and the region in turn are happy to have his services should be decisive.

I also find it hard to believe that the WRU would just tell a player who he'd play for regardless of whether the player themselves wanted to or not. There must be other factors to it which, I suspect, should be a simple matter between the union, the club and the individual player.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:I will be equally up in arms if Rhys or Scott sign up for Team Roger too.
.

I'd expect it if I were you.

To be honest I am not too sure. Rhys is wanted by teams in England, and there are friendly faces at both, he could end up at Wasps with his mate Stevo there to help him, or he could go to Glaws to reunite with Knoyle and Nige.

Also even though both names are bounded around for the contracts, neither of them are certs to start for Wales, when everyone is fit, so I can't really see the union wanting to throw big money at them, unless it is to stir the pot. And I think both of them are aware of the feeling of fans about the whole poop storm.

Knowsit17 wrote:

I also find it hard to believe that the WRU would just tell a player who he'd play for regardless of whether the player themselves wanted to or not. There must be other factors to it which, I suspect, should be a simple matter between the union, the club and the individual player.

It has happenned. You'll just have to take our word on it. WRU wanted North at Cardiff.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

Knowsit17 wrote:Yep, all good.

I'm in two minds really. I can see your point and agree that it shouldn't be a case of the WRU chopping and changing where a player operates on a whim. At the same time I can't bring myself to feel miserable at a player choosing to stay in Wales under any circumstances.

It would be interesting to identify how other unions who deal through central contracts manage their relations with local clubs/provinces/regions. I haven't observed tension anywhere near this high in terms of, say, how the NZRU allocate contracts and coordinate with the clubs the players concerned are based at.

That's because those Unions don't want to destroy, the aforementioned provinces / clubs.

It's because Unions and Provinces know what the bigger picture is. Success for both = success for both.

ok taking away the whole emotion away, from the rumours flying around the 3 offers that Warburton has possibly had are.
1) Offer from Toulon for Great money, has to move abroad, play more games (quins don't go on about how much he would be getting, that isint the point in hand)
2) offer from the blues, good money, stays in wales
3) offer from WRU, very good money, stays in wales and still plays for blues (well from what we assume) and probably plays less games, hopefully being able to play for more wales, guaranteed to be available for Wales training etc and union will look after his injuries.

Now who in their right mind wouldn't pick option 3 if you had the injury history like warburton? he still plays for the same team as he currently does, stays at home.
At the end of the day we always talk about rugby being professional yet a lot of the fans on here still expect players to be as loyal as they were when there weren't pro teams. Rugby now is a business and in the capitalist society we are in today a player cant be expected to show the same loyalty to their teams when it is their lives and their families lives futures they are looking at, especially when you consider how potentially short a career could be.

Also many of you a questioning Warburtons morale compass, how many of you have actually met him or actually had a proper conversation with him? because I have and honestly he is a genuine down to earth guy, popular, determined, humble and has this aura around him, and I can see why exactly he is captain. I also think that when players like PoC and BOD come out and say he is an exceptional leader I shall take their views a bit higher than some of the people on here too.

welshy824 (new) wrote:ok taking away the whole emotion away, from the rumours flying around the 3 offers that Warburton has possibly had are.
1) Offer from Toulon for Great money, has to move abroad, play more games (quins don't go on about how much he would be getting, that isint the point in hand)
2) offer from the blues, good money, stays in wales
3) offer from WRU, very good money, stays in wales and still plays for blues (well from what we assume) and probably plays less games, hopefully being able to play for more wales, guaranteed to be available for Wales training etc and union will look after his injuries.

Now who in their right mind wouldn't pick option 3 if you had the injury history like warburton? he still plays for the same team as he currently does, stays at home.
At the end of the day we always talk about rugby being professional yet a lot of the fans on here still expect players to be as loyal as they were when there weren't pro teams. Rugby now is a business and in the capitalist society we are in today a player cant be expected to show the same loyalty to their teams when it is their lives and their families lives futures they are looking at, especially when you consider how potentially short a career could be.

Also many of you a questioning Warburtons morale compass, how many of you have actually met him or actually had a proper conversation with him? because I have and honestly he is a genuine down to earth guy, popular, determined, humble and has this aura around him, and I can see why exactly he is captain. I also think that when players like PoC and BOD come out and say he is an exceptional leader I shall take their views a bit higher than some of the people on here too.

+1

Also I noticed that nobody has answered the questions in my post which I added to this conversation earlier.

LordDowlais wrote:I cannot believe all the crap Sam Warburton is getting, ffs he is just a kid, and he was presented an opportunity that could very well guarantee him for life, and you lot say he should be ashamed of himself, if any one of you lot on here were put in his position I wonder what you lot would have done ? I know I would have taken the money and ran at his age, you lot need to give this kid a break, he has done what he has thought what was best for HIMSELF, not what is best for you lot, why can this work in Ireland but not work in Wales ?

First off he is not a kid, he is a 25 year old man!

Secondly, let's be realistic the money on offer from the Blues was considerable, and most people his age in the normal world (even players in Wales) would be over the moon with that much. Although if money is the be-all-and-end-all then more money was meant to be on the table elsewhere. So seeing as he turned that down, then a counterargument could be made that money was not part of the decision. Although most likely it was fifty fifty money and stay in Wales.

Finally, yes I can hand on heart say I would have signed for the Blues and not the union in his position. Purely because I would want to be playing regular games, and I think that staying with the region is the safer choice. Although I can understand in the current unrest he appears to have hedged his bets, hoping the regions step down from the no central contraced players take the field stance. Seeing as there is yet no comment from the Blues, it is a wait and see situation now. Also I have in my own job turned down jumping ship, for a small rise (which the wru raise appears to be, unless he still gets gpmatch money, not sure) because I was confident of promotion, partly due to loyalty, a few years later.

The Irish system works well, but this system seems cobbled together as a press stunt, as I put in a few posts earlier.


I don't blame Sam as such, but I am disappointed, and do think he is being used. Time will tell. I have not seen the abuse that he has received, but assume it is the same as when Foxy was the devil for replacing BOD on the lions tour or when Roland was public enemy no.1 during the RWC, a bunch of keyboard warriors who care little for rugby having a dig because they can. It is not acceptable, and if the 'scab' claims are right miles off target too. A scab sides with private business against the unions wishes, Sam did the polar opposite, so an anti-scab surely (guess that would be perfect skin?)

Oh, and would have replied earlier but didn't notice your post, sorry.

[quote="welshy824 (new)"]
Also many of you a questioning Warburtons morale compass, how many of you have actually met him or actually had a proper conversation with him? because I have and honestly he is a genuine down to earth guy, popular, determined, humble and has this aura around him, and I can see why exactly he is captain. I also think that when players like PoC and BOD come out and say he is an exceptional leader I shall take their views a bit higher than some of the people on here too.[/quote]

+2

Great post

Allty wrote:

welshy824 (new) wrote:
Also many of you a questioning Warburtons morale compass, how many of you have actually met him or actually had a proper conversation with him? because I have and honestly he is a genuine down to earth guy, popular, determined, humble and has this aura around him, and I can see why exactly he is captain. I also think that when players like PoC and BOD come out and say he is an exceptional leader I shall take their views a bit higher than some of the people on here too.

+2

Great post

    

are the WRU cherry picking player for this contract, or are all welsh players going to be given the chance to sign the contract?

CF wrote:are the WRU cherry picking player for this contract, or are all welsh players going to be given the chance to sign the contract?

Six were meant to be offered them. Sam, Halfpenny, Adam Jones, AWJ, Priest land and Scott Williams. No mention of future contracts has been mentioned, it's all a bit cobbled together at the moment, but most things in Welsh rugby seem to start off that way lol.

If the union are serious about this then it needs to be first choice xv within four or five years imo

of course some fans are upset. things are pretty passionate in welsh rugby at the moment. twitter abuse is just the modern version of hatemail. not illegal unless threatening, but not nice to receive, and everyone has your address!

things are such a mess in wales at the moment.

personally i think the timing of sam signing the central contract is going to make his job in the six nations campaign harder. the WRU policy of divide and rule, now being applied to players, is not likely to improve dressing room harmony. just my opinion like.

It seems like Warburton, in a tricky situation, has opted for the option that he believes offers him the best deal to stay in Wales. He wants to stay- I don't understand why people don't see that. He's in a very difficult position but, admittedly as an outsider, I don't understand why he'd get less abuse if he actually left Wales. That would be the easy and profitable thing to do.

I understand why fans don't trust the Union, but I don't understand why they don't trust a player whose always shown massive pride in being Welsh captain, playing for Wales and obviously cares enough about Welsh rugby to try and find a way to stay a part of it- the worst thing you could say would be that he's a pawn in a much bigger game.

they have to be careful when cherry picking players for these contracts, they really do...otherwise others may be driven away due to 'favourtism'..

[quote="ScarletSpiderman"][quote="CF"]are the WRU cherry picking player for this contract, or are all welsh players going to be given the chance to sign the contract?[/quote]



[b]If the union are serious about this then it needs to be first choice xv within four or five years[/b] imo[/quote]

It has to be at least 15 but hopefully eventualy 22 players. Its going to take time and the WRU should make things clear sooner rather than later

I'm not sure how many of your starting XV it is general custom for unions to hire. Anyone know a rough estimate of how many players the SRU or IRFU currently employ?

If unions are to offer central contracts, it should be reserved for those players whom you are convinced are more likely than most to feature prominently over the duration of that contract. It makes more sense to sign up someone like Toby Faletau or Adam Jones, for example, who have established themselves beyond reasonable doubt as undisputed in their respective positions than, say, Bradley Davies who has not made the position he plays in his own and faces stiff competition from others.

As far as this goes there is food for controversy in Warbs signing as, like people say, it sets a bad precedent when, by all accounts, Tipuric is often unjustifiably overlooked.

It's still too early to gauge the long-term implications given that there still hasn't been a response from RRW (I get the feeling they're quietly fuming) and while SW is the only player centrally employed not much can be said.

Allty wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

CF wrote:are the WRU cherry picking player for this contract, or are all welsh players going to be given the chance to sign the contract?

If the union are serious about this then it needs to be first choice xv within four or five years imo

It has to be at least 15 but hopefully eventualy 22 players.  Its going to take time and the WRU should make things clear sooner rather than later

Shockingly I think we agree on this   

Why can't the union come out with a clear cut plan publicly? The union seem to want to have the star centrally contracted, thee regions want assistance paying for star players, and the fans just want an end to the cloak and dagger horse crap. The way this has been done, even if well intentioned, just comes across rushed, slapdash and almost just as a or stunt. Clarity from the union of their plans would help, but all they seem to want to do is parade Sam as a trophee of their battle with RRW, of course it is going to irk people.

Until the present battle is over I don't think the WRU wants to show its hand.

If only things could have been done sensibly all those years ago

I was surprised when I heard Priestlands name as one of the 6 as I certainly wouldn't class him in the same bracket as AWJ, Warburton, Halfpenny or A Jones.

Exactly the same as WRUburton, first choice, but arguably should be a bencher

bedfordwelsh wrote:I was surprised when I heard Priestlands name as one of the 6 as I certainly wouldn't class him in the same bracket as AWJ, Warburton, Halfpenny or A Jones.

He's borderline first choice. And out of contract. There are 6 of these players.

bedfordwelsh wrote:

Allty wrote:

welshy824 (new) wrote:
Also many of you a questioning Warburtons morale compass, how many of you have actually met him or actually had a proper conversation with him? because I have and honestly he is a genuine down to earth guy, popular, determined, humble and has this aura around him, and I can see why exactly he is captain. I also think that when players like PoC and BOD come out and say he is an exceptional leader I shall take their views a bit higher than some of the people on here too.

+2

Great post

    

 
I almost   at the aura bit  , I admit he had a good spell a couple of seasons ago (been living off it ever since) and that every now and then he has a good game (who doesn't) but he is seriously overrated as a player and captain.

I see him as a 'lucky' Robshaw, good player who gives his all but not a great of the game.

Scrump I'm not clapping because of his ability as a player

I'm praising Beds post about the disgusting response of posters on other forums about Warburton as a person

Out of interest has anyone seen any actual abusive posts on twitter / facebook / any other social media directly at Sam himself? And when I say actual abusive posts, I mean anything that is more vitriolic that the stuff that gets fired at players who by 'fans' when that player is deemed to have lost the team a game by a silly decision late on in the game etc. Because I have tried to find any comment like that, and so far I have only found posts that the are as abusive as those aimed at the likes of Rhys Priestland, Ryan Bevington, Sam Hobbs, Lou Reed etc when / if they make a mistake in a match. I have however seen numerous people slating the abuse same has been getting, but no actual abuse.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Out of interest has anyone seen any actual abusive posts on twitter / facebook / any other social media directly at Sam himself? .

I can't find one single thing.

I can post one if you want?   

I've seen a number of shocking posts on other Welsh rugby forums just about all from Blues supporters.

Allty wrote:I've seen a number of shocking posts on other Welsh rugby forums just about all from Blues supporters.

Allty can you PM me with a link to them, just so I can see please   

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Out of interest has anyone seen any actual abusive posts on twitter / facebook / any other social media directly at Sam himself?  And when I say actual abusive posts, I mean anything that is more vitriolic that the stuff that gets fired at players who by 'fans' when that player is deemed to have lost the team a game by a silly decision late on in the game etc.  Because I have tried to find any comment like that, and so far I have only found posts that the are as abusive as those aimed at the likes of Rhys Priestland, Ryan Bevington, Sam Hobbs, Lou Reed etc when / if they make a mistake in a match.  I have however seen numerous people slating the abuse same has been getting, but no actual abuse.

I saw one guy on twitter calling him a 'scab'.

That's about it. It's just a way of diffusing the situation and placing the controversy on supposed 'abuse' rather than the fact he's probably alienated himself from the dressing room.

I'd like to see these abusive posts too Allty, grateful if you could pass them on. cheers

Just posted on twitter

1m
Rhys priestland is a load of five knuckle shuffle

2m
Warren Gatland must be the only person in the world not named Mr or Mrs Priestland that would pick that mug in the Welsh team.

7m
Priestland must have his man sausage so far up gatlands arse. He is not the form 10 in Wales

8m
priestland is Poopie why is he still starting hook and biggar are much better

12m
Priestland is absolutely robbing a living! Beyond me how he even gets a look in!

19m
Oh Frak off Rhys Priestland

Simon Thomas claimed that twitter comments were personal and abusive. He blocked those posters. In blocking them perhaps the comments are no longer visible on his thread? I don't know how Twitter works.
It is also possible that those who posted those comments have themselves removed them once the comments were reported in the papers. Keyboard warriors.
I have read plenty of abusive comments on region fans forums, such as 'scab' and the like, and so can think similar would have been posted on Twitter.

Not great PR for the regions. Seems like RRW are in self destruct, and aided with the help of some fans....

Munchkin wrote:Simon Thomas claimed that twitter comments were personal and abusive. He blocked those posters. In blocking them perhaps the comments are no longer visible on his thread? I don't know how Twitter works.
It is also possible that those who posted those comments have themselves removed them once the comments were reported in the papers. Keyboard warriors.
I have read plenty of abusive comments on region fans forums, such as 'scab' and the like, and so can think similar would have been posted on Twitter.

Not great PR for the regions. Seems like RRW are in self destruct, and aided with the help of some fans....

Correct

Chunky Norwich wrote:Just posted on twitter

1m
Rhys priestland INSULT REMOVED

2m
Warren Gatland must be the only person in the world not named Mr or Mrs Priestland that would pick that INSULT REMOVED in the Welsh team.

7m
Priestland must have INSULT REMOVED up gatlands INSULT REMOVED. He is not the form 10 in Wales

8m
priestland is INSULT REMOVED why is he still starting hook and biggar are much better

12m
Priestland is absolutely INSULT REMOVED!

19m
OhINSULT REMOVED Rhys Priestland

   Edited for decency.

That is exactly the sort of abuse I am on about it is shameful

Chunky Norwich wrote:Just posted on twitter

1m
Rhys priestland is a load of five knuckle shuffle

2m
Warren Gatland must be the only person in the world not named Mr or Mrs Priestland that would pick that mug in the Welsh team.

7m
Priestland must have his man sausage so far up gatlands arse. He is not the form 10 in Wales

8m
priestland is Poopie why is he still starting hook and biggar are much better

12m
Priestland is absolutely robbing a living! Beyond me how he even gets a look in!

19m
Oh Frak off Rhys Priestland

come off it this is hardly abusive. only the first and third one are even slightly offensive. the others are just harsh opinions of his right to play 10 for wales or get a central contract. nothing wrong with that on a forum, twitter, or in private conversation.

if rugby players dont want fans to talk about them then maybe they shouldnt aspire to be rugby players.

i think 606v2 is getting a bit pious if everyone finds this stuff so abusive. however the fans word their comments, they are mostly informed, passionately held opinions. there is absolutely nothing unlawful about them at all. or have swear words and mean comments been made illegal on the internet?

Why is Priestland getting flak anyway? Is he next to sign a CC, or is it just fans don't rate him, or both?

Munchkin wrote:Why is Priestland getting flak anyway? Is he next to sign a CC, or is it just fans don't rate him, or both?

Cardiff blues could do with an experienced fly half.   

I never believed the Welsh media/fan hype that he was a world class No10, but he is a good player if he is confident, I just don't get why the Welsh fans don't like him?

ScarletSpiderman wrote:LD - we know for a fact about George and Sam, but not too sure about AWJ.  It could be rumour-mongering, it could be factual, and it could be a bit of both.  Whatever it is, the major fact is that there are a lot of people worried about the union being involved in player movements.  I remember when they 'advised' Mike Phillips to leave the Scarlets in order to progress his career, he ended up at the Blues.  So I personally think there could well be something in it.  But have no proof, just theory.

No problem with that. It's what message boards thrive on.
Any meat on the bones re Warbs central contract yet?

Dai - still no statement from RRW/Blues, but I guess that will wait until the Friday deadline has occurred. If RRW are as crafty with their press releases as the WRU are then I guess we will discover the 'bones' on the contract and the regions future about half hour before kick off, so it can overshadow the game.

quinsforever wrote:
come off it this is hardly abusive. only the first and third one are even slightly offensive. the others are just harsh opinions of his right to play 10 for wales or get a central contract. nothing wrong with that on a forum, twitter, or in private conversation.

if rugby players dont want fans to talk about them then maybe they shouldnt aspire to be rugby players.

i think 606v2 is getting a bit pious if everyone finds this stuff so abusive. however the fans word their comments, they are mostly informed, passionately held opinions. there is absolutely nothing unlawful about them at all. or have swear words and mean comments been made illegal on the internet?

The point is, that those were far worse than anything that was said about Warburton. Yet we won't hear a peep out of the media.

So make your own conclusions as to why the welsh media went hysterical about 1 person calling Warburton a "scab" on twitter.

I'm puzzled as to why one Welsh captain has accepted a WRU contract and our other Welsh captain has declined a WRU contract?