OH MY WORD!!!

First topic message reminder :

I just can't get over the reaction from the England fans regarding the dropping of Ashton.
When we all pointed out he can't defend we were slapped down and dismissed as jealous,then we had talk of him being a Lion becoming the worlds leading try scorer and possibly he could be the second coming of the Messiah.
You fickle fickle bunch, now Lancaster has picked a couple of unproven nobody's for the wing they seem to be the flavor of the month , honestly i predict Mike Brown being out of favour with you lot by the end of the year WATCH THIS SPACE!

Then we look at Toby Flood being given the real cold shoulder,Lancaster is a fool! Flood is a very very good flyhalf who can adapt to kick territory or attack ,but Farrell wow the lad is pretty crap and has his Dad to thank for so much.

France by 10 or more points.
Peace out.

Anyone got try scoring stats? I believe Flood ran the backline better than Farrell can, but he obviously had confidence issues that affected him in big games. I think Flood suffered under media comparison to Wilkinson. Flood has a very different game, and I'm not sure the English media understood it. If he wasn't kicking drop goals they thought he was rubbish.

Johnson made a critical mistake dropping Flood right at the start of the WC for Wilkinson. Flood i dont think ever recovered a spot.

Flood is more creative than Farrell...but at this level has proved inconsistant and flaky.

Hopefully Care and Twevletrees can provide the spark whilst Farrell just control things nicely and winds up the opposition...

I think it is the lack of a 12 with a good rugby brain that has stopped our backline firing. We haven't had a decent 12 since Greenwood for fecks sake!

The focus has been on defence - hence Barritt.

I for one am Glad Ashton has been dropped. Not because i don't like him or anything, but he as been out of form and should not be included in the international squad.

I just hope that this is the norm. I am sick of coaches picking p[layers out of position, picking players out of form, this as gone on far too long.

GeordieFalcon wrote:Johnson made a critical mistake dropping Flood right at the start of the WC for Wilkinson. Flood i dont think ever recovered a spot.

Flood is more creative than Farrell...but at this level has proved inconsistant and flaky.

Hopefully Care and Twevletrees can provide the spark whilst Farrell just control things nicely and winds up the opposition...

Fair comment, although he was carrying an injury. Johnsons suffered form the same disease that Lancaster has...the slightest set back and he looks to tightening up the side rather than adding cutting edge.
Where they differ is one trusted actual world cup winners whereas the other is turning to junior world cup losers (whilst largely bypassing the 2009 finalists)

The best attacking sides england have mustered in the past few years have had Flood at 10. The problem is though hes become an injury prone liability. For all we huff and puff deep down most Tigers fans know theyve probably done a smart bit of business getting rid of him to Toulon as with Moody to Bath a few years ago ...the guy is a crock.

Lancasters not really had a choice there, especially with Burns flumping.

Farrell is a limited player, we have to deal with that.

My big concern is that all the talk of building is doing nothing fd the sort, its creating a pool of cast offs nothing more.

Where they differ is one trusted actual world cup winners whereas the other is turning to junior world cup losers (whilst largely bypassing the 2009 finalists)

I thought Nowell / Watson etc WON the JWC...not lost it?

My big concern is that all the talk of building is doing nothing fd the sort, its creating a pool of cast offs nothing more

Ok i can see your argument...however what is supposed to be done.

Injured:
Tuilagi, Varndell, Foden, Jon Joseph, Wade, Yarde

Then those potentially selectable:
Banahan - Hated by 606
Sharples - Not convinced he's an international player
Ashton -Despite club form...not adapting to Englands tactics at all
Strettle - Aparently not rate at all by Lanc's despite lack of chances and his club form
Elliot (Saints) - How is his club form...but another newbie.
Cueto - Surely we dont go back there
Monye - See Cueto
Sackey - See Cueto
Trinder - Is his form setting the world alight...and a pretty much newbie
Tomkins - Check the 606 reports on his AI performances....
Any others?

So who do you select? Genuinely?

GeordieFalcon wrote:

Where they differ is one trusted actual world cup winners whereas the other is turning to junior world cup losers (whilst largely bypassing the 2009 finalists)

I thought Nowell / Watson etc WON the JWC...not lost it?

Well there you go, shows how much people care.


Question 2:

36, Barritt, Goode, Ashton, Strettle, Brown, May, Ford. *shrug*
Or pay some rugby league stars (who can tackle this time) to convert. Hell as joked elsewhere Arscott has an equal claim to Nowell based on big game performances in the last year, but thats still plucking name sout of a hat.


Trinder is a 2009 JWC player and was due to be selected way back in Lancasters first game before he got injured. Now hes not even looked at.

Wales or Ireland for the title looking at the England and France teams..

Points diff vs Italy will be paramount.

The fact that this sort of cak is allowed to dwell on this forum is a sad reflection of it i'm afraid.

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

Where they differ is one trusted actual world cup winners whereas the other is turning to junior world cup losers (whilst largely bypassing the 2009 finalists)

I thought Nowell / Watson etc WON the JWC...not lost it?

Well there you go, shows how much people care.


Question 2:

36, Barritt, Goode, Ashton, Strettle, Brown, May, Ford. *shrug*
Or pay some rugby league stars (who can tackle this time) to convert. Hell as joked elsewhere Arscott has an equal claim to Nowell based on big game performances in the last year, but thats still plucking name sout of a hat.


Trinder is a 2009 JWC player and was due to be selected way back in Lancasters first game before he got injured. Now hes not even looked at.

That's because he's injured again PSW.

Trinder was definitely in the running for an AI place but suffered from an attack of JSD disease. It appears to be very contagious and has infected quite a number of young players

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

Where they differ is one trusted actual world cup winners whereas the other is turning to junior world cup losers (whilst largely bypassing the 2009 finalists)

I thought Nowell / Watson etc WON the JWC...not lost it?

Well there you go, shows how much people care.


Question 2:

36, Barritt, Goode, Ashton, Strettle, Brown, May, Ford. *shrug*
Or pay some rugby league stars (who can tackle this time) to convert. Hell as joked elsewhere Arscott has an equal claim to Nowell based on big game performances in the last year, but thats still plucking name sout of a hat.


Trinder is a 2009 JWC player and was due to be selected way back in Lancasters first game before he got injured. Now hes not even looked at.

No. Don't say people. You, it shows how much YOU care. We didn't all think that the 2013 team lost the RWC...

Some of us watched it

Chjw131 wrote:

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

Where they differ is one trusted actual world cup winners whereas the other is turning to junior world cup losers (whilst largely bypassing the 2009 finalists)

I thought Nowell / Watson etc WON the JWC...not lost it?

Well there you go, shows how much people care.


Question 2:

36, Barritt, Goode, Ashton, Strettle, Brown, May, Ford. *shrug*
Or pay some rugby league stars (who can tackle this time) to convert. Hell as joked elsewhere Arscott has an equal claim to Nowell based on big game performances in the last year, but thats still plucking name sout of a hat.


Trinder is a 2009 JWC player and was due to be selected way back in Lancasters first game before he got injured. Now hes not even looked at.

That's because he's injured again PSW.

Ah see he chucked me a curveball on that by mentioning him in the list of players that couldve been considered!

We can all except that Englands injury list is ludicrous. OK lets skip Trinder and mention Dollman ( who the exter boss was moaning doenst get a look in) who shone in the same games as the wonderkid but who at 28 is judged past it. (no im not seriously suggesting he should play)
Squad of 26 appears to relate to the maximum age you can be. Its not this 6 nations, or the next world cup but the one after we appear to be building toward.By which point everyone will be moaning about how boring and old the likes of Nowell are and how they should be replaced by Andy Farrells grandkids.

ChequeredJersey wrote:Some of us watched it

Some people watched the womens world cup too

Ok so in response / solution to my argument of genuinly who to play you give me:

36 - Starting 
Barritt - Only had a few games back from injury.
Goode - Brown has the shirt fair and square...
Ashton - As i mentioned above...great club form not adapting to Englands tactics
Strettle - Maybe one who could feel hard done to
Brown - Starting
May - Starting
Ford - So you quibble over newbies in the team...then suggest Ford whos had half a season with Bath playing well.

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

Chjw131 wrote:

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

Where they differ is one trusted actual world cup winners whereas the other is turning to junior world cup losers (whilst largely bypassing the 2009 finalists)

I thought Nowell / Watson etc WON the JWC...not lost it?

Well there you go, shows how much people care.


Question 2:

36, Barritt, Goode, Ashton, Strettle, Brown, May, Ford. *shrug*
Or pay some rugby league stars (who can tackle this time) to convert. Hell as joked elsewhere Arscott has an equal claim to Nowell based on big game performances in the last year, but thats still plucking name sout of a hat.


Trinder is a 2009 JWC player and was due to be selected way back in Lancasters first game before he got injured. Now hes not even looked at.

That's because he's injured again PSW.

Ah see he chucked me a curveball on that by mentioning him in the list of players that couldve been considered!

We can all except that Englands injury list is ludicrous. OK lets skip Trinder and mention Dollman ( who the exter boss was moaning doenst get a look in) who shone in the same games as the wonderkid but who at 28 is judged past it. (no im not seriously suggesting he should play)
Squad of 26 appears to relate to the maximum age you can be. Its not this 6 nations, or the next world cup but the one after we appear to be building toward.By which point everyone will be moaning about how boring and old the likes of Nowell are and how they should be replaced by Andy Farrells grandkids.

Point taken but does that mean you're advocating Cueto to play on the wing? Or a recall for Balshaw?

GeordieFalcon wrote:
Ford - So you quibble over newbies in the team...then suggest Ford whos had half a season with Bath playing well.

Its a 1/4 more of a season than Nowell whos been injured for most of this one.

Im suggesting Ford as a bench possibility in a position where England do genuinely need to blood some players. Instead because Lancaster obviously doesnt trust his 3/4 that much hes been forced to stack with utility players.

What would have been your team and bench Pete?

Not sure but Phil Vickery definitely would be starting. Far to early to write him off.

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:
Ford - So you quibble over newbies in the team...then suggest Ford whos had half a season with Bath playing well.

Its a 1/4 more of a season than Nowell whos been injured for most of this one.

Im suggesting Ford as a bench possibility in a position where England do genuinely need to blood some players. Instead because Lancaster obviously doesnt trust his 3/4 that much hes been forced to stack with utility players.

Utility players? Who?

May - A winger
Nowell - Can cover wing or Fb...
Brown - A full back
Burrell - A 12 who has previous experience at 13...playing due to said previous injuries!

I also argue about the Utility players tag. Or are they multi skilled...

We fawn at many of the Kiwis / Aussies / SA's..who can interchange positons at being majestic players etc etc...yet we look to have players like that and they get called utility players...

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:Not sure but Phil Vickery definitely would be starting. Far to early to write him off.

The Tv chef ?

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:Not sure but Phil Vickery definitely would be starting. Far to early to write him off.

That's a given! Go on give us your team.

Didn't he do that earlier?

GeordieFalcon wrote:

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:
Ford - So you quibble over newbies in the team...then suggest Ford whos had half a season with Bath playing well.

Its a 1/4 more of a season than Nowell whos been injured for most of this one.

Im suggesting Ford as a bench possibility in a position where England do genuinely need to blood some players. Instead because Lancaster obviously doesnt trust his 3/4 that much hes been forced to stack with utility players.

Utility players? Who?

May - A winger
Nowell - Can cover wing or Fb...
Brown - A full back
Burrell - A 12 who has previous experience at 13...playing due to said previous injuries!

I also argue about the Utility players tag. Or are they multi skilled...

We fawn at many of the Kiwis / Aussies / SA's..who can interchange positons at being majestic players etc etc...yet we look to have players like that and they get called utility players...

Same exact thing happens in NZ (not the fauning).

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/opinion/9083880/Utility-tag-can-be-a-curse-for-All-Blacks-backs

GeordieFalcon wrote:

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:
Ford - So you quibble over newbies in the team...then suggest Ford whos had half a season with Bath playing well.

Its a 1/4 more of a season than Nowell whos been injured for most of this one.

Im suggesting Ford as a bench possibility in a position where England do genuinely need to blood some players. Instead because Lancaster obviously doesnt trust his 3/4 that much hes been forced to stack with utility players.

Utility players? Who?

May - A winger
Nowell - Can cover wing or Fb...
Brown - A full back
Burrell - A 12 who has previous experience at 13...playing due to said previous injuries!

I also argue about the Utility players tag. Or are they multi skilled...

We fawn at many of the Kiwis / Aussies / SA's..who can interchange positons at being majestic players etc etc...yet we look to have players like that and they get called utility players...

May is a center by birth
Nowell a fullback by birth
Brown is a fullback whos covered wing
Burrell is a 12/13
36 is a 10/12/13
Goode was born a center, moved to fly half, represented full back but covered 12 in attack and has now retired to the bench.
Barritt was born a fly half and flits between 12 and 13.
Tom Youngs was born a center

BTW my initial response was supposed to say hes stacked the bench with utility players. Im really noting the lack of a specialist strike winger there or a specialist fly half. He is clearly worried about having to cover the entire backline.

Do you have a preferred team at all then Pete?

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:
Ford - So you quibble over newbies in the team...then suggest Ford whos had half a season with Bath playing well.

Its a 1/4 more of a season than Nowell whos been injured for most of this one.

Im suggesting Ford as a bench possibility in a position where England do genuinely need to blood some players. Instead because Lancaster obviously doesnt trust his 3/4 that much hes been forced to stack with utility players.

Utility players? Who?

May - A winger
Nowell - Can cover wing or Fb...
Brown - A full back
Burrell - A 12 who has previous experience at 13...playing due to said previous injuries!

I also argue about the Utility players tag. Or are they multi skilled...

We fawn at many of the Kiwis / Aussies / SA's..who can interchange positons at being majestic players etc etc...yet we look to have players like that and they get called utility players...

May is a center by birth
Nowell a fullback by birth
Brown is a fullback whos covered wing
Burrell is a 12/13
36 is a 10/12/13
Goode was born a center, moved to fly half, represented full back but covered 12 in attack and has now retired to the bench.
Barritt was born a fly half and flits between 12 and 13.
Tom Youngs was born a center

BTW my initial response was supposed to say hes stacked the bench with utility players. Im really noting the lack of a specialist strike winger there or a specialist fly half. He is clearly worried about having to cover the entire backline.

May has played most of his senior rugby at wing.
Nowell - cant honestly comment.
Brown - Only Lancaster has done that...hes a FB everywhere else.
Burrell - Started at 13 and has naturally moved to 12. Huge numbers of players do...ie Nonu, Umaga etc etc And Tuilagi probably will.
Goode - Jack of all master of none. Hence hasnt started.
Barritt - 10 whilst at Natal, but naturally suited to 12 as he has no skill. Should have been a flanker.
Tom Youngs - I wasnt talking about forwards.

Peter,

I agree with some of your arguements about just creating a bigger pool of players etc...but i dont agree that this can be avoided due to injuries etc.

I also think your're doing a little diservice to the ability of the players coming in.

But we'll see on Saturday.

the ball is only going to get to the wingers when

i) the french kick it there, so good pairs of hands important

ii) the wingers come infield looking for work, both of which will suit May (centre experience) and Nowell (FB experience)

it does mean england are going to be playing a narrow and tight game, but that was always going to be the case whoever we have on the wings.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Do you have a preferred team at all then Pete?

Marler
Hartley
Vickery
Court of Lawes
Launchberry
Robshaw
Stokes (moving him to 3 was a bad experiment)
Vunipola
Dickson
Farrell snr
Barritt
Twelvetrees
May
Watson
Nowell

  

Against Scotland, bets on:

15- Brown
14- Watson
13- May
12- Daly
11- Nowell
10- Goode

?

I'll take that as a no!

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Do you have a preferred team at all then Pete?

Marler
Hartley
Vickery
Court of Lawes
Launchberry
Robshaw
Stokes (moving him to 3 was a bad experiment)
Vunipola
Dickson
Farrell snr
Barritt
Twelvetrees
May
Watson
Nowell

  

  Good call mate...

As an England fan lets just hope they do themselves justice and don't get baptism of fire...

What can I say ... I got really good odds on a french slam   

Lots of talk of this debate over the English backs being some sort of compliment to the English pack,
NO! no debate needed over the English pack because Lancaster has picked the best available to him, but this in no way suggest they are any good.
I could go on about how the whole front row cant scrum,how the natural athlete and self named enforcer is a joke and a seven who is average at best! but i won't.

France by 10.

DeludedOptimistorjustDave wrote:Lots of talk of this debate over the English backs being some sort of compliment to the English pack,
NO! no debate needed over the English pack because Lancaster has picked the best available to him, but this in no way suggest they are any good.
I could go on about how the whole front row cant scrum,how the natural athlete and self named enforcer is a joke and a seven who is average at best! but i won't.

France by 10.

Thanks for sparing us

interesting deluded.

you said france by 10 yesterday.

how is their new 9/10 combination impacting your thinking?

or is that new information about as useful as spectacles to cyclops?

Should have left that bait in the water, Quins

quinsforever wrote:interesting deluded.

you said france by 10 yesterday.

how is their new 9/10 combination impacting your thinking?

or is that new information about as useful as spectacles to cyclops?

I don't know much about the scrumhalf i must say, but the flyhalf is a real classy but steady player, at home aswell this will have no bearing on them or the result.

good to know that the 9/10 combination will have no bearing on the performance of france or the result   

quinsforever wrote:good to know that the 9/10 combination will have no bearing on the performance of france or the result   

heard it here first, bitter pill to swallow i know but i wish you the best of luck.

DeludedOptimistorjustDave wrote:Lots of talk of this debate over the English backs being some sort of compliment to the English pack,
NO! no debate needed over the English pack because Lancaster has picked the best available to him, but this in no way suggest they are any good.
I could go on about how the whole front row cant scrum,how the natural athlete and self named enforcer is a joke and a seven who is average at best! but i won't.

France by 10.

   

DeludedOptimistorjustDave wrote:Lots of talk of this debate over the English backs being some sort of compliment to the English pack,
NO! no debate needed over the English pack because Lancaster has picked the best available to him, but this in no way suggest they are any good.
I could go on about how the whole front row cant scrum,how the natural athlete and self named enforcer is a joke and a seven who is average at best! but i won't.

France by 10.

  


Oh but you do, you do, you do............................  

Won't somebody please think about Balshaw ?

munkian wrote:Won't somebody please think about Balshaw ?

Yes, we need to remember World Cup Winner Balshaw.

Fra will probably beat us, then view/deluded will claim a font of all knowledge and a sage for predicting it! Lol...

but either way it will be nothing to do with the French 9/10 combo

picamoles is going to do one-handed miss passes to 12 from the base of the scrum

Breadvan wrote:Fra will probably beat us, then view/deluded will claim a font of all knowledge and a sage for predicting it!  Lol...

Ahhh so View is Deluded.

It all makes sense.
On a number of levels.

I did wonder how the team that came second last year, and lost on points difference only could really be so very terrible. It depends entirely on your View!

quinsforever wrote:but either way it will be nothing to do with the French 9/10 combo

picamoles is going to do one-handed miss passes to 12 from the base of the scrum

DON'T............................. I can just imagine that, Fofana on the burst, 36 being run over aka Australia................ Brown smashing into Fofana

.......................................pop pass to the big Bast,,,

.......................................and he drops it.





Bug**r, Nigel Owens has the wind and rain in his face and misses it. Try to France.

Then I wake up.

Need to score more tries, 4 against Scotland and dodgy one against France won't do it this year