Who determines the pace of a team?

Read a Spiro Zavos article on The Roar - http://www.theroar.com.au/2014/02/03/spiro-france-defeat-england-with-a-brilliant-le-finish/ - and although not a fan of his views in general, I do think his experience in the game often affords him great insight. The problem is, like other things in life, is how you use that insight.

The article is a review of the England France game and in the second half he makes a point that caught his eye. Zavos spent a lot of years in NZ and he saw one truism drummed into children at a grassroots level right up to the elite level: the pace of the forwards is determined by the fastest forward and the pace of the backs is determined by the slowest back. Watching the likes of Nyanga and Szarzewski that is a scary pace the French forwards can set if that axiom is to be believed. It's difficult to determine who the fastest forward is in the England back. If Croft or Armitage were playing, it would be obvious who the fastest forward is but who do you believe is the fastest forward in the pack that played against France last weekend, whether they be in the starting team or on the bench? Furthermore, do you believe in this axiom? Typically a backrow forward is going to be the fastest forward and for all of England's penetration with their bigger units like the Vunipolas and Morgan, is the lack of pace in the English pack a problem.

Looking at the backs, who would you say is the slowest back and does this affect the backline. When I think of Wales the axiom makes a lot of sense if Phillips starts. Typically though halfbacks are zippy and the more likely to be the slowest is the flyhalf or one of the centres. When I think of the NZ team, it's difficult to say who is the slowest: it's certainly not the back three and the flyhalf options all have pace so it's a toss up between Nonu or Smith and it's very difficult to guage the speed of those two.

What happens though if there is great disparity between your fastest forward and your slowest back? It is unlikely your fastest forward is going to be much faster than your slowest back but when you think of someone like Croft or Ardie Savea, it could well happen. But the problem appears to be for England at the moment that there is no link man fast enough to coordinate between the forwards and the backs. That is fine if Vunipola makes a break and links up with the backs on the strength of his battering the line but it's a problem when you have turnover or quick ball and you have space on the other side of the field and not someone able to link up quickly enough to get that ball to those open spaces.

What are your thoughts on this idea of pace in a team?

Very astute there Kia.

I think it is very true that the pace of the fastest forward will determine the breakdown.

The backs though, I think pace of the mark is more vital than pace in general.

The players that has the ability to change pace over a short distance can catch you more off guard than just being fast in general.

For me the breakdown determines the pace of a match in general, a quick forward can get you there, but breakdowns these days are contested by the backs as much as the forwards do.

So technique for whoever the first , second and third arrival is will determine the pace of the breakdown.

Is this a variation on the theme that every side needs a genuine openside (ie McCaw, Pocock, etc.)? It's certainly true of Scotland, where our lack of selection of an openside is a clear hindrance not only to the balance of the backrow and the split of jobs between the players, but also impacts our slowness to the breakdown. GC produced some interesting stats on another thread suggesting that all (well, there haven't been that many tbh!) of our recent wins have come when playing a genuine 7. But still our coaching staff persists in selecting 8s or 6s to the openside

I think ASBO the balance of your backrow determines whether you need a 'genuine 7', which seems to be someone very quick who is a good fetcher. NZ are between McCaw and Cane but when the former plays the quick attributes and fetching of Read come to the fore and McCaw does more the engine work whereas Cane has improved his physicality without detriment to his linking and pace that he previously provided.

A roundabout way of saying you don't need a 'genuine 7' if you have pace in your other backrow players but if your backrow all have similar attributes then that's where the problems occur. Perhaps Scotland's problem is a problem of likeness, much like the genetic makeup of many royal families; not enough diversification or variety.

But if your fastest forward is also your weakest breakdown / rucker ie Croft then surely its irrelevant.

I wouldn't say pace of a team is determined by individual speed at all but by a combination of gameplan plus general conditioning.  Sustaining pace for periods that can stretch, confuse and tire the opposition is I feel the key - and that's more game design than working out which forward is fastest to a breakdown or which back is slowest.
If you can retain possession, retain team pace for sizeable blocks and offload yourself away from collisons then the 'pace' of a team begins to have meaning as it begins to breakdown the opponent's defensive measures.  It doesn't require extremely fast men but a sustained period of pace.  The opposition begin to run out of lung capacity and time enough to keep resetting their defensive lines/getting up off the ground and back into position.  They begin to fail to turn up defensively where a slower pace would see them fulfil their duties in that department.  Pace and accuracy in general team terms( not in exeptional individual player terms) is to me the golden egg.

I think the ref has more influence on the pace of the game than most players - does he let it flow or does he like his whistle? 

RubyGuby wrote:I think the ref has more influence on the pace of the game than most players - does he let it flow or does he like his whistle? 

If he likes the whistle then there is also a suspicion that his own pace is suspect. Whistling to catch a breather would not be unknown amongst certain refs.

In the Wales v Italy game on the weekend I believe Adam Jones set the pace for the welsh team   

When England had croft in the side were they that much quicker to the ball??? I myself didn't think the speed of the English forwards was too much of a problem. You had no one busting the gut up in France's faces but they had the upper hand in the loose for most of the game.

There are different types of speed too.

Croft is probably with a long run up one of the quickest forwards in the game.... but I would question his 0-10.

Take England of 2 years ago

Sheridan, Thompson, Cole, Deacon, Palmer, Croft, Moody, Easter

and of today

Marler, Hartley, Cole, Launchbury, Lawes, Wood, Robshaw, Vunipola

I would say its a far more mobile pack today. Sure the first man may be slightly slower meaning first contact is closer in as it would be with croft but was he always the top tackling backrow.... no, it was almost certainly Moody then.

Today you would say its probably Lawes and I would say Lawes 2014 vs. a Moody 2011 is probably quicker (albeit not a Moody 2002)