Walesvs ireland grudge match

First topic message reminder :

Its very refreshing as an England fan not being involved the grudge match of the 6 nations. With the players having a post match chat after the French game and the Irish and welsh wanting to smash each other, are we in danger of not being hated? I will be watching wales Ireland this weekend above all others could be a cracking game.   

kingjohn7 wrote:I think its just media and morons on forums that think of it as a grudge match. The players might do in the build up to get themselves extra hyped. Genuine fans will be looking forward to a great game and will look at it as a key game to win. Will be watching with my Irish mates, desperate for a win and bragging rights but good natured. I watched that game 2 years ago at some rugby club in Belfast, was only Welshmen there and thought I might have got lynched but everyone came up and congratulated me. Might have helped that the injustice came near the end and people were too drunk to notice.  

Agree 100% with the first three sentences.

The rest illustrates a point that I take issue with. A lot of people use controversies and points of contention (dodgy referee calls, selections, offences committed by the players etc) as an excuse to churn out discriminatory, offensive statements aimed at a general group of supporters. All Saint and Dave have done since the Lions is make use of the initial reactions of a few Irish posters and pundits to constantly single out and antagonise any Irish poster who so much as posts a comment, regardless of whether it even bears any relation to the Lions. It's pathetic and should have no place of here.

If someone had a go at me because of Bradley Davies dropping Donnacha Ryan on his head, purely because I support the side that Davies happens to represent, I know for a fact I'd find it greatly offensive because in no rational way should it be taken to reflect on my own character or necessarily that of anyone else who does. It's a bit like launching a hate campaign against JD2 for being the man picked ahead of BOD i.e. because there's no logic to it and those who do make such connections need to grow up.

Jhamer25 wrote:This was interested. On current form I think Delme has got it spot on. Except giving BOD a 9, maybe an 8 aye
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/six-nations-2014-how-ireland-6679840

If that's numbers based on Six nations form over a season or two then it's probably a more accurate assessment. But if the figures are based on 'current form'? Not so sure a good few of the Welsh guys are so high right now. The weekend will decide where the real figures are in the player versus player stakes.

Jhamer25 wrote:This was interested. On current form I think Delme has got it spot on. Except giving BOD a 9, maybe an 8 aye
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/six-nations-2014-how-ireland-6679840

I wouldn't pen Bod as 9/10 nowadays. In the autumn he was poor at times (especially in the Australia game I think) and against Scotland I thought he took the momentum out of a couple of promising moves, in large part due to his declining pace and reflexes. 6 or 7 for me. I just hope he doesn't come out and make an outrageous temporary return to his best like he did in this fixture last year.

Nor do I feel Jenkins, Warburton or Faletau should currently be rated as 8's and 9's in the same article. Bit of bias shining through there methinks.

Knowsit17 wrote:

Jhamer25 wrote:This was interested. On current form I think Delme has got it spot on. Except giving BOD a 9, maybe an 8 aye
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/six-nations-2014-how-ireland-6679840

I wouldn't pen Bod as 9/10 nowadays. In the autumn he was poor at times (especially in the Australia game I think) and against Scotland I thought he took the momentum out of a couple of promising moves, in large part due to his declining pace and reflexes. 6 or 7 for me. I just hope he doesn't come out and make an outrageous temporary return to his best like he did in this fixture last year.

I liked his contribution to a crappy, scrappy Scotland game...so too did Schmidt. He was everywhere in defence. Like I've said before, he knows his limitations these days (his last very few Internationals) - he isn't played for his limitations though but for his strengths.

Knowsit17 wrote:

kingjohn7 wrote:I think its just media and morons on forums that think of it as a grudge match. The players might do in the build up to get themselves extra hyped. Genuine fans will be looking forward to a great game and will look at it as a key game to win. Will be watching with my Irish mates, desperate for a win and bragging rights but good natured. I watched that game 2 years ago at some rugby club in Belfast, was only Welshmen there and thought I might have got lynched but everyone came up and congratulated me. Might have helped that the injustice came near the end and people were too drunk to notice.  

Agree 100% with the first three sentences.

The rest illustrates a point that I take issue with. A lot of people use controversies and points of contention (dodgy referee calls, selections, offences committed by the players etc) as an excuse to churn out discriminatory, offensive statements aimed at a general group of supporters. All Saint and Dave have done since the Lions is make use of the initial reactions of a few Irish posters and pundits to constantly single out and antagonise any Irish poster who so much as posts a comment, regardless of whether it even bears any relation to the Lions. It's pathetic and should have no place of here.

If someone had a go at me because of Bradley Davies dropping Donnacha Ryan on his head, purely because I support the side that Davies happens to represent, I know for a fact I'd find it greatly offensive because in no rational way should it be taken to reflect on my own character or necessarily that of anyone else who does. It's a bit like launching a hate campaign against JD2 for being the man picked ahead of BOD i.e. because there's no logic to it and those who do make such connections need to grow up.

He Knows it.   

Good article on bbc about Jamie Roberts laughing because it was his return that pushed out bod but JD2 got the flak.

slartibartfast wrote:Good article on bbc about Jamie Roberts laughing because it was his return that pushed out bod but JD2 got the flak.

I read that and even at the time I asked why was JD getting the abuse as it was Roberts who came into the side at the expense of BOD not JD.

Knowsit17 wrote:

kingjohn7 wrote:I think its just media and morons on forums that think of it as a grudge match. The players might do in the build up to get themselves extra hyped. Genuine fans will be looking forward to a great game and will look at it as a key game to win. Will be watching with my Irish mates, desperate for a win and bragging rights but good natured. I watched that game 2 years ago at some rugby club in Belfast, was only Welshmen there and thought I might have got lynched but everyone came up and congratulated me. Might have helped that the injustice came near the end and people were too drunk to notice.  

Agree 100% with the first three sentences.

The rest illustrates a point that I take issue with. A lot of people use controversies and points of contention (dodgy referee calls, selections, offences committed by the players etc) as an excuse to churn out discriminatory, offensive statements aimed at a general group of supporters. All Saint and Dave have done since the Lions is make use of the initial reactions of a few Irish posters and pundits to constantly single out and antagonise any Irish poster who so much as posts a comment, regardless of whether it even bears any relation to the Lions. It's pathetic and should have no place of here.

If someone had a go at me because of Bradley Davies dropping Donnacha Ryan on his head, purely because I support the side that Davies happens to represent, I know for a fact I'd find it greatly offensive because in no rational way should it be taken to reflect on my own character or necessarily that of anyone else who does. It's a bit like launching a hate campaign against JD2 for being the man picked ahead of BOD i.e. because there's no logic to it and those who do make such connections need to grow up.

It pees me off hearing about it, but what pees me off even more is the Irish pretending their 5 Million strong population (if the net and media is anything to go by ) didn't show off like babies over a bloody coaches selection and the fact they still refuse to admit they were wrong. Keith Wood and Sin e especially. I have done no such thing since the Lions so I suggest you take back your slanderous accusation before it lands you in trouble with the V2 patrol.

 

bedfordwelsh wrote:

slartibartfast wrote:Good article on bbc about Jamie Roberts laughing because it was his return that pushed out bod but JD2 got the flak.

I read that and even at the time I asked why was JD getting the abuse as it was Roberts who came into the side at the expense of BOD not JD.

Maybe the BOD fans are scared of Dr Roberts but think they can 'ave JD2... If they all gang up on him in a nasty way...???

The Saint wrote:

Knowsit17 wrote:

kingjohn7 wrote:I think its just media and morons on forums that think of it as a grudge match. The players might do in the build up to get themselves extra hyped. Genuine fans will be looking forward to a great game and will look at it as a key game to win. Will be watching with my Irish mates, desperate for a win and bragging rights but good natured. I watched that game 2 years ago at some rugby club in Belfast, was only Welshmen there and thought I might have got lynched but everyone came up and congratulated me. Might have helped that the injustice came near the end and people were too drunk to notice.  

Agree 100% with the first three sentences.

The rest illustrates a point that I take issue with. A lot of people use controversies and points of contention (dodgy referee calls, selections, offences committed by the players etc) as an excuse to churn out discriminatory, offensive statements aimed at a general group of supporters. All Saint and Dave have done since the Lions is make use of the initial reactions of a few Irish posters and pundits to constantly single out and antagonise any Irish poster who so much as posts a comment, regardless of whether it even bears any relation to the Lions. It's pathetic and should have no place of here.

If someone had a go at me because of Bradley Davies dropping Donnacha Ryan on his head, purely because I support the side that Davies happens to represent, I know for a fact I'd find it greatly offensive because in no rational way should it be taken to reflect on my own character or necessarily that of anyone else who does. It's a bit like launching a hate campaign against JD2 for being the man picked ahead of BOD i.e. because there's no logic to it and those who do make such connections need to grow up.

It pees me off hearing about it, but what pees me off even more is the Irish pretending their 5 Million strong population (if the net and media is anything to go by ) denying that they showed off like babies over a bloody coaches selection and refusing to admit they were wrong. Keith Wood and Sin e especially. I have done no such thing since the Lions so I suggest you take back your slanderous accusation before it lands you in trouble with the V2 patrol.

  
Your extensive posting history on the matter would suggest otherwise.

I'd rather not take it back. I'll take my chances and our good mods may reprimand me if I'm out of order, although I suspect you have a lot more to worry about on that frontier than I do.

bedfordwelsh wrote:

slartibartfast wrote:Good article on bbc about Jamie Roberts laughing because it was his return that pushed out bod but JD2 got the flak.

I read that and even at the time I asked why was JD getting the abuse as it was Roberts who came into the side at the expense of BOD not JD.

Because Roberts is a proven Lions calibre player and Davies cost us the second test by missing the tackle on Cooper and botching all his running lines.....

...hey and don't blame me for bringing it up...you asked the question man .....  

I thought his running lines we're botch because he was expecting the pass sooner but glory boy bod held on to it.

Actually glory boy held on to the ball because he was so used to JD floundering around after him he forgot they were on the same side ....   

Knowsit17 wrote:
  
Your extensive posting history on the matter would suggest otherwise.

I'd rather not take it back. I'll take my chances and our good mods may reprimand me if I'm out of order, although I suspect you have a lot more to worry about on that frontier than I do.

Hate to do an asore on you but care to back it up? I've only commented on it recently and I forget the name of the single article, after it was brought back up with some notable Irish posters diving straight in to do exactly what I've layed out above. I mean, surely it can't be difficult to locate if it's so extensive? BTW, ever thought of condensing your posts? You waffle on a lot, in Uni you lose marks for that. Just saying .

The Saint  

i do think its a grudge match. but not for the usual boring BoD reason.

i think the irish players and irish fans are sick of hearing how Wales are the best side in the NH (even though england are higher in IRB rankings and Ireland stuffed them in their last encounter) especially when the number of Welsh Lions that got picked is part of that argument. Would love to hear the pre-match motivation chat, and key messages written on chalk-boards, before the game...

Ireland will have only moderate respect, and no fear, of Wales on Saturday.

The Saint wrote:

Knowsit17 wrote:
  
Your extensive posting history on the matter would suggest otherwise.

I'd rather not take it back. I'll take my chances and our good mods may reprimand me if I'm out of order, although I suspect you have a lot more to worry about on that frontier than I do.

Hate to do an asore on you but care to back it up? I've only commented on it recently and I forget the name of the single article, after it was brought back up with some notable Irish posters diving straight in to do exactly what I've layed out above. I mean, surely it can't be difficult to locate if it's so extensive? BTW, ever thought of condensing your posts? You waffle on a lot, in Uni you lose marks for that. Just saying .

The Saint  

few things Knowsit and Saint,

when you get out of Uni, away from scoring clever points in class which lecturers are intellectually indulgent of, and off the internet, you will discover that certain modes of dialogue are going to fail you miserably in real life.

threatening legal action whenever anyone says something you dont like is going to make you look i) oversensitive ii) ignorant of the law and iii) possessing of poor judgement

knowsit, in defence of Saint, i can honestly say that he is not anti BoD or anti Irish, he is just predisposed to overreacting to any criticism of Wales, Gatland, Mike Philips drink issues, basically anything to do with Wales. It seems pretty even handed and not merely focused on the Lions, or BoD, but i bet that was a big topic.

Ireland have every reason to be narked at Wales apart from BOD, we have got the rub of the green against them recently so they probably feel their luck has to change after
Ballboygate
RWC 1/4 final gate
6 Nations 2012 gate
6 Nations 2013 gate
Gatlandgate

It's a huge motivation for them clearly and rather like they did v NZ I expect they will come at us like madmen on saturday. I hope their anger affects their game.

If we can survive that initial onslaught I think we'll win. We are obviously the best team in the 6 Nations but not europe, obviously as that is England, obviously.

Scratch wrote:Ireland have every reason to be narked at Wales apart from BOD, we have got the rub of the green against them recently so they probably feel their luck has to change after
Ballboygate
RWC 1/4 final gate
6 Nations 2012 gate
6 Nations 2013 gate
Gatlandgate

It's a huge motivation for them clearly and rather like they did v NZ I expect they will come at us like madmen on saturday. I hope their anger affects their game.

If we can survive that initial onslaught I think we'll win. We are obviously the best team in the 6 Nations but not europe, obviously as that is England, obviously.

We ain't that mad though, Scratch. And ain't that unprofessional. The NZ game wasn't madness, it was focused ruthlessness...and then it died beautifully and poetically at the last kick of the game. It's the beautiful and poetic dying we're trying to weed out of our game

quinsforever wrote:i do think its a grudge match. but not for the usual boring BoD reason.

i think the irish players and irish fans are sick of hearing how Wales are the best side in the NH (even though england are higher in IRB rankings and Ireland stuffed them in their last encounter) especially when the number of Welsh Lions that got picked is part of that argument. Would love to hear the pre-match motivation chat, and key messages written on chalk-boards, before the game...

Ireland will have only moderate respect, and no fear, of Wales on Saturday.

Should that be "grudging respect",given the thread title?  

Ah to be sure only the Irish can make it sound so beautiful, think you've been on the little green fairy this evening.     

But i think the anger/madness/focussed ruthlessness will be there. I just hope we come out to play with the same tempo as that might nullify what i expect from Ireland which will be a large angry green tsunami lead by POC.

I wouldn't be surpsied if we ship points early and play catch up again which in theory doesn't bother me because we can and have done it, but it just means i drink more!

Taffineastbourne wrote:

quinsforever wrote:i do think its a grudge match. but not for the usual boring BoD reason.

i think the irish players and irish fans are sick of hearing how Wales are the best side in the NH (even though england are higher in IRB rankings and Ireland stuffed them in their last encounter) especially when the number of Welsh Lions that got picked is part of that argument. Would love to hear the pre-match motivation chat, and key messages written on chalk-boards, before the game...

Ireland will have only moderate respect, and no fear, of Wales on Saturday.

Should that be "grudging respect",given the thread title?  

touche

I think that the grudge is between supporters rather than the teams. Irish fans are a little smug about their "Heiny" success while our regions are poop, so it is nice to do them at the next level up. Whether that will happen this weekend of course is far from certain, but we live in hope.

I think that the grudge is between supporters rather than the teams. Welsh fans are a little smug about their "6N" success while our Nation are poop, so it is nice to do them at any level (preferably all of them). Whether that will happen this weekend of course is far from certain, but we live in hope.

Don't see this as a "grudge match" at all, however much Gatland, the media and some misguided Welsh posters want it to be. Gatland obviously has never got over his failure as coach of the Ireland team and uses every opportunity to enlist any gullible stray who is willing to add grist to his mill. His rhetoric is bordering on the distasteful by even getting his captain to compare the Aviva to Syria - really, it's a game man, catch yersel on and enjoy the craic.

Maybe there is focus on the BOD thing but this game has always been a big game between the players and the supporters. Up to 1980 we couldnt buy a win except for the odd couple of years but since then we have been well on top for the most part. Where we havent done well is at the important end of the competition in winning championships or grandslams which is where Wales have done well....

The Great Aukster wrote:His rhetoric is bordering on the distasteful by even getting his captain to compare the Aviva to Syria - really, it's a game man, catch yersel on and enjoy the craic.

He did? God, I'm falling behind on all the goss. Gatland trying out his new pressure cooker? He does love a good arm wrestle.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/alun-wyn-jones-on-likely-hostility-at-the-aviva-its-not-syria-29979665.html

It's fair enough that Wales don't fear Ireland, but Gatland does indeed like a good wind up. Even BOD can have a good chuckle now at the lengths he will go to...

Knowsit17 wrote:

Jhamer25 wrote:This was interested. On current form I think Delme has got it spot on. Except giving BOD a 9, maybe an 8 aye
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/six-nations-2014-how-ireland-6679840

I wouldn't pen Bod as 9/10 nowadays. In the autumn he was poor at times (especially in the Australia game I think) and against Scotland I thought he took the momentum out of a couple of promising moves, in large part due to his declining pace and reflexes. 6 or 7 for me. I just hope he doesn't come out and make an outrageous temporary return to his best like he did in this fixture last year.

Possibly and well i'm praying he doesn't

There are 3 players who turn up and play well will swing it for us. Those three are Adam Jones, Sam Warburton and Jamie Roberts.
We all know what they can all do but Sam hasn't been playing Jamie only turn up now and again and Adam hasn't adapted tot he new scrum laws that well.
We need to match them at the break down with Henry and Peter O'Mahony who was great last week. So the likes of Toby, Sam and even Gethin will need to do a lot of work at the break down.
Adam for obvious reasons needs a bug game, he came under a lot of stick lately. People say he struggled last weekend but he didn't, the scrum were just mess all in all. I thought he payed pretty well, Cian has improved but still isn't that world class scrummager yet. He was quite lucky a few times last week (wasn't driving straight on 2 occasions and it should have been clearly obvious to Barnes) to get away with a few scrums but we will be the biggest challenge Adam has come up against so far this season.
Jamie when on form can be the bets center on the pitch, i hope he plays like he did last week because he will be key to our back line attack. If these three players turn up then I think we have a good chance.

quinsforever wrote:

The Saint wrote:

Knowsit17 wrote:
  
Your extensive posting history on the matter would suggest otherwise.

I'd rather not take it back. I'll take my chances and our good mods may reprimand me if I'm out of order, although I suspect you have a lot more to worry about on that frontier than I do.

Hate to do an asore on you but care to back it up? I've only commented on it recently and I forget the name of the single article, after it was brought back up with some notable Irish posters diving straight in to do exactly what I've layed out above. I mean, surely it can't be difficult to locate if it's so extensive? BTW, ever thought of condensing your posts? You waffle on a lot, in Uni you lose marks for that. Just saying .

The Saint  

few things Knowsit and Saint,

when you get out of Uni, away from scoring clever points in class which lecturers are intellectually indulgent of, and off the internet, you will discover that certain modes of dialogue are going to fail you miserably in real life.

threatening legal action whenever anyone says something you dont like is going to make you look i) oversensitive ii) ignorant of the law and iii) possessing of poor judgement

knowsit, in defence of Saint, i can honestly say that he is not anti BoD or anti Irish, he is just predisposed to overreacting to any criticism of Wales, Gatland, Mike Philips drink issues, basically anything to do with Wales. It seems pretty even handed and not merely focused on the Lions, or BoD, but i bet that was a big topic.

Fair enough, must have been getting mixed up with somebody else.
Apologies Saint, for what it's worth.

The Great Aukster wrote:http://www.independent.ie/sport/alun-wyn-jones-on-likely-hostility-at-the-aviva-its-not-syria-29979665.html

It's fair enough that Wales don't fear Ireland, but Gatland does indeed like a good wind up. Even BOD can have a good chuckle now at the lengths he will go to...

Why should Wales fear Ireland? They are Champions coming to be true to form and ability and easily beat us, so as to progress onto their real goal of a third Championship in a row.  We're just a small obstacle in their way.  They'll be meaning to brush us aside and on to more important games.

You see, that's Gat's design, to make it appear that Ireland are the overly-confident ones and that Wales are heroically saying "We're not going to be intimidated.  We're not afraid"

That's good to hear guys.  Never thought for a moment that you would be.  We'll fulfill our role as best we can - as humble Samson against the Welsh Giant Goliath

Always counter-psyche a psyche out. 

In my experience when good scrummager's are getting stick going into a big game they tend to make people eat their words.

quinsforever wrote:i do think its a grudge match. but not for the usual boring BoD reason.

i think the irish players and irish fans are sick of hearing how Wales are the best side in the NH (even though england are higher in IRB rankings and Ireland stuffed them in their last encounter) especially when the number of Welsh Lions that got picked is part of that argument. Would love to hear the pre-match motivation chat, and key messages written on chalk-boards, before the game...

Ireland will have only moderate respect, and no fear, of Wales on Saturday.

Spot on Quins. We are going to man-shame them. Kidney is gone. Schmidt to shaft the old guard, same ol... same ol, Gats. Out with the consummately predictable. In with the rugby-porn that is  unpredictability.  The shackles are off.

Ireland by 20 pts min. Not WUMing.

  

ME-109 wrote:Maybe there is focus on the BOD thing but this game has always been a big game between the players and the supporters. Up to 1980 we couldnt buy a win except for the odd couple of years but since then we have been well on top for the most part. Where we havent done well is at the important end of the competition in winning championships or grandslams which is where Wales have done well....

Nailed.

Wales are in a resurgence in the Ireland fixture. Our 6N record against the Irish was embarrassing up until about 2008 but we're beginning to show signs of making back the ground we lost. In the last 10 games it's Wales 5 Ireland 5, Wales having won 3 of the last 4. And a lot of those we did lose to you were close margins, not nearly so one-sided as had become the custom. Admittedly we very rarely beat Ireland by more than a score, 32-20 (2005) and 22-10 (2011) being the only comfortable victories.

You may want to think yourselves underdogs in the traditional position to dethrone the cliche complacent, overconfident reigning champs, Rocky Balboa to Wales' Apollo Creed. But it ain't happening. We're the ones who have it all to do. Pay no attention to the number of 6N winners medals these boys have  

Ah sure we have about 100 Heino Cup Winners medals to keep us warm. We'll be grand.

Ye lot are going down. Really.  

God I hate this fixture. I have as many Welsh mates as I do Irish, and they will make there presence keenly felt on Saturday night if Wales win in Dublin. I root for the Welsh team every other gameday of the 6N, but my Welsh mates (I'm sure not all Welsh fans!!) have become increasingly bad winners as the grand slams rack up, they are like early 00's England fans after the RWC. Looking forward to a good game anyway that hopefully the weather holds out for, I think this could be the decider.

Few thoughts about Ireland after re-watching the Scotland game:

- I cant remember the last game before Scotland that Ireland did not complete a single choke tackle and force a penalty. It's been ages! I thought the backrow with messers Healy and Best were attempting it, but Scotland always managed to get to ground quickly. Not sure if this means the new defensive setup could take the wind out of that mainstay of the Irish team for the last few years. I'm sure Alun Wyn Jones will be happy either way.

- IMO there are some concerns about the creativity in the Irish backline with Trimble and D. Kearney.  The first proper Irish break against a Scottish defense (which is not near the level of the Welsh defence) was in the 37th minute for Sexton. Before that, Ireland were pegged in their own half. Trimble scored with basically his first touch, and D.Kearney, while solid defensively, didn't pull up any trees going forward. Feel Ireland missed a trick not bringing Zebo along for these games, he did the business last year.

- I would really like to see Ireland with the ball in hand more, kicking way too prominent in the 1st half of the Scotland game, and it continually invited pressure. If we do that against Wales, George North will eat up ground, and it's a good way to invite indiscipline, subsequent penalties, and Halfpenny racking up scores too.

- The depth in the pack is really encouraging, even with SOB (god Ireland miss him) out. But not sure about the back options. Again, Zebo would bring something new, and while McFadden is a solid option, I don't think he is sufficiently different to warrant Wales adapting to him. Jackson needs to show he can handle pressure.

- Ireland must target set-pieces, where on paper and recent form there is an advantage. If Best can keep the darts accurate, that could be a real platform.

Not warm enough though obviously. Ya know, given the success you've had in the past melting them down and producing 6N gold instead. Except that one time, the year escapes me  

Knowsit17 wrote:Not warm enough though obviously. Ya know, given the success you've had in the past melting them down and producing 6N gold instead. Except that one time, the year escapes me  

The century is young............... we got time.

Marshes wrote:God I hate this fixture. I have as many Welsh mates as I do Irish, and they will make there presence keenly felt on Saturday night if Wales win in Dublin. I root for the Welsh team every other gameday of the 6N, but my Welsh mates (I'm sure not all Welsh fans!!) have become increasingly bad winners as the grand slams rack up, they are like early 00's England fans after the RWC. Looking forward to a good game anyway that hopefully the weather holds out for, I think this could be the decider.

Few thoughts about Ireland after re-watching the Scotland game:

- I cant remember the last game before Scotland that Ireland did not complete a single choke tackle and force a penalty. It's been ages! I thought the backrow with messers Healy and Best were attempting it, but Scotland always managed to get to ground quickly. Not sure if this means the new defensive setup could take the wind out of that mainstay of the Irish team for the last few years. I'm sure Alun Wyn Jones will be happy either way.

- IMO there are some concerns about the creativity in the Irish backline with Trimble and D. Kearney.  The first proper Irish break against a Scottish defense (which is not near the level of the Welsh defence) was in the 37th minute for Sexton. Before that, Ireland were pegged in their own half. Trimble scored with basically his first touch, and D.Kearney, while solid defensively, didn't pull up any trees going forward. Feel Ireland missed a trick not bringing Zebo along for these games, he did the business last year.

- I would really like to see Ireland with the ball in hand more, kicking way too prominent in the 1st half of the Scotland game, and it continually invited pressure. If we do that against Wales, George North will eat up ground, and it's a good way to invite indiscipline, subsequent penalties, and Halfpenny racking up scores too.

- The depth in the pack is really encouraging, even with SOB (god Ireland miss him) out. But not sure about the back options. Again, Zebo would bring something new, and while McFadden is a solid option, I don't think he is sufficiently different to warrant Wales adapting to him. Jackson needs to show he can handle pressure.

- Ireland must target set-pieces, where on paper and recent form there is an advantage. If Best can keep the darts accurate, that could be a real platform.

Good synopsis Marsh. Agree with most points.

RWC11 gate ? Pretty sure that was a fair old stuffing, no ? We scored early and Irish pride got in the way of going for goal and instead went for touch. Then JD cut their defense to pieces, Phillips got a try 'touchdown' style and North ran over with people hanging off him.

Marshes wrote:- IMO there are some concerns about the creativity in the Irish backline with Trimble and D. Kearney.  

Well accept the fact that the backline made more combined metres last weekend than they have for a nearly a decade.

I know all you IT and Indo readers out there want to go back to the good old days when Hickie ,Shaggy, Flash Gordon and Girve the swerve had the world at their feet (which only happened for half a dozen games in reality), munstermen could scrummage and Ulstermen knew their place in the stands and queue at the bar but I do wish people would watch the game with their eyes open.

All I bloody hear these days is Zebo this and Fitzgerald that, honest to god you'd think these guys were the love children of Mike Gibson and BODs auld doll...its not like these guys haven't had chances over the years to show what they can do and the answer is not much more than anyone else.

Where's the cries for Johnny Murphy? He never even had a prime.

SecretFly wrote:I think that the grudge is between supporters rather than the teams. Welsh fans are a little smug about their "6N" success while our Nation are poop, so it is nice to do them at any level (preferably all of them). Whether that will happen this weekend of course is far from certain, but we live in hope.

And bingo my point is proven. I thank You

This is all slightly old hat. There was a fair bit of needle back in the late 60s/early70s, when the Irish were convinced that there was some dastardly, preconceived "Murphy Plan", Brian Price flattened the very influential Noel Murphy with a haymaker that terminated any meaningful part in the game for Noel and Wales won at a canter. The following year in Dublin, with Ireland seething for revenge, Wales, with Gareth, Barry John and all the rest in situ, got the biggest hiding that they ever had to endure during their glory decade. Fast forward two years and Ireland win both their away games in Paris and London, but Wales won't travel to Dublin and the chance of a GS showdown is crocked. Both sides were pretty good then and the needle was understandable.

For about 15 years from the mid 80s through the entire 90s, neither side was up to much in the great scheme of things, the needle between them was consequently much less evident, and both sides seemed to strike an agreement that they would win on each other's patch. Nothing that much at stake, you see, or at least a bit like two bald men fighting over a comb.

Back to the present and we have a situation where Ireland and Wales are again among the top dogs and so the words "grudge match" get trotted out by a largely mentally challenged media and repeated by a minority of no less obtuse fans. It's perfectly simple - each of these sides is a live threat to the other's ambitions and has been for the past decade. It's consequently a game with enormous ramifications for silverware and the stakes are that much higher. France-Scotland last year didn't mean much and didn't have all the hype - it would have been different in the 90s - and the opposite is true of Wales-Ireland fixtures. It all depends where teams are in the cycle of their fortunes.

Ah yes...forgot about the time the Welsh and Scots chickened out of coming over to Landsdowne Road....would have been another GS....

I was at that English game. My 1st ever game, with the Da. We gave them a 5 min standing ovation. It was magic. Defined rugby for me.

Pullin after we beat them. "We may not be any good but at least we turn up." Hero.

Ah...that's where I went wrong. I watched the game whilst asleep.

Huge day in our Anglo-Irish family too, Gibson. Pullin picked up an award in Dublin before the England-Ireland game in 07, I think - on it were the words "Thanks for turning up."

Anglo-Irish rugby relations have generally been pretty good ever since '73, as well, even though MJ did his best to spoil them thirty years later.