Rob Penney and Simon Mannix to leave Munster

First topic message reminder :

Just announced on twitter;

https://twitter.com/Munsterrugby

Does anyone else feel this is the wrong decision? Penney brought a transitioning Munster to the Heineken Cup semi-final in his first season, and now has them top of the league and in a home quarter-final despite the retirement of several key players and the ageing of others. He's slowly but effectively changing their style of play. Why on earth are they not trying harder to hold onto him?

Be interesting to see what details come out; if they were unwilling to give him the contract he wanted, if he wanted out or if they didn't want to retain him at all.

SecretFly wrote:

Feckless Rogue wrote:I love the idea of EOS. Have people forgotten how good Ireland were under him? Of course the players were good. But they were obviously a very well drilled outfit too.

They were...but what went wrong?  EOS EGO?  
Players aren't prepared to be treated like school kids anymore (rightly or wrongly).  Wasn't the impression going that EOS ruled with an iron fist...no discussions?  
Modern coaches try to chaperone rather than be dictator.  Only guessing, but there were serious reasons why EOS began to fail.

]

This isnt the Joe Schmidt thread fly...

I wonder is Penney going to Japan to coach one of their teams they are entering in the new super 15 competition?

I'm waiting for the big explanation for why we were so bad in the 07 RWC. Georgia should have beaten us. What the hell happened? I've scoured Jim Corr's website and not even he has any answers to that one.

But up to that we were mostly very good. Remember spanking both Australia and South Africa in 06? Sure they had their excuses but that just isn't done by northern sides very often. And a win rate in the 70% range I'd say.

I'd say he's had plenty of time sitting miserably in TV studio's thinking about what he did wrong. A good coach shouldn't be banished forever for feicing up.

ME-109 wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

Feckless Rogue wrote:I love the idea of EOS. Have people forgotten how good Ireland were under him? Of course the players were good. But they were obviously a very well drilled outfit too.

They were...but what went wrong?  EOS EGO?  
Players aren't prepared to be treated like school kids anymore (rightly or wrongly).  Wasn't the impression going that EOS ruled with an iron fist...no discussions?  
Modern coaches try to chaperone rather than be dictator.  Only guessing, but there were serious reasons why EOS began to fail.

]

This isnt the Joe Schmidt thread fly...

Oh God...another guy who believes the 'Leicester' schmaltz coming out of Leinster camp.  Mr HumbleFluff is really big bad wolf behind the scenes with a hairdryer ready every monday for the video run throughs of player..... mistakes!!!!!!  The HORROR   

You know what the 'Leicester' schmaltz is, ME?  A few seasons back...a good few actually  - when Geordan Murphy was still playing ...and Cockerill had lovely propaganda coming out on a weekly basis about how tough it is at training, where actual bone breaking fights break out between players, encouraged by their savage coaches to separate men from boys.  Lovely stuff.  I used to enjoy reading the crap.

Yes,it is true...Schmidt is a mental f**K up behind the scenes - unhinged and dangerous.  The rumours are true.

SecretFly wrote:

ME-109 wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

Feckless Rogue wrote:I love the idea of EOS. Have people forgotten how good Ireland were under him? Of course the players were good. But they were obviously a very well drilled outfit too.

They were...but what went wrong?  EOS EGO?  
Players aren't prepared to be treated like school kids anymore (rightly or wrongly).  Wasn't the impression going that EOS ruled with an iron fist...no discussions?  
Modern coaches try to chaperone rather than be dictator.  Only guessing, but there were serious reasons why EOS began to fail.

]

This isnt the Joe Schmidt thread fly...

Oh God...another guy who believes the 'Leicester' schmaltz coming out of Leinster camp.  Mr HumbleFluff is really big bad wolf behind the scenes with a hairdryer ready every monday for the video run throughs of player..... mistakes!!!!!!  The HORROR   

You know what the 'Leicester' schmaltz is, ME?  A few seasons back...a good few actually  - when Geordan Murphy was still playing ...and Cockerill had lovely propaganda coming out on a weekly basis about how tough it is at training, where actual bone breaking fights break out between players, encouraged by their savage coaches to separate men from boys.  Lovely stuff.  I used to enjoy reading the crap.

Yes,it is true...Schmidt is a mental f**K up behind the scenes - unhinged and dangerous.  The rumours are true.

.as Feckless pointed out the EOS regime worked quite well in terms of win ratios. The handsoff approach from DK worked initially but then failed him. For JS Time will tell.

EOS did work quite well...and maybe a dictatorship is the price you pay for progress...

I did say in my comments "rightly or wrongly" players simply don't seem to tolerate the old school dictatorships though...cracks appear, confidence goes...the cliched dressing room is lost...and bye bye coach.  

Players!  Who'd have 'em?!

Feckless Rogue wrote:I'm waiting for the big explanation for why we were so bad in the 07 RWC. Georgia should have beaten us. What the hell happened? I've scoured Jim Corr's website and not even he has any answers to that one.

But up to that we were mostly very good. Remember spanking both Australia and South Africa in 06? Sure they had their excuses but that just isn't done by northern sides very often. And a win rate in the 70% range I'd say.

I'd say he's had plenty of time sitting miserably in TV studio's thinking about what he did wrong. A good coach shouldn't be banished forever for feicing up.

Eddie O'Sullivan hasn't coached for years. And not really since defences have got so good. Oh, and he hasn't coached at club level since Connacht back in the last millenium.

When Connacht men were Neanderthal nomads... I remember it well

On De Paper this morning they are mentioning Foley and Costelloe (Skills coach) as a possibility. Gallaimh thinks Foley will walk if he isnt given the job which is a possibility seeing as he has been learning his apprenticeship since 2007 (and doing well). I think EOS has something to offer (remember the last time Irish backs played an expansive game)....I wouldnt be too concerned that he has been out of the game for a while (you forgot his stint with the US).

Their is a rumour going around that DK was sounded out a couple of weeks ago but I dont believe thatis a runner...unless he looks to do a similar job as Humphries in Ulster.

Also a rumour that London Irish want Deccie!

I don't think Deccie would be necessary for Munster with Garret Fitzgerald there to help Foley out on the business side of stuff.

Axel would be right to walk if he doesn't get it this time with the amount of experience he has picked up since retiring in 2008 (including international coaching).

Costelloe also deserves a chance, but I'd also like to see Dougie brought in somewhere.

If the Munster boys can handle EOS... then it's not a bad route I suppose. Hope they get the right people to push on... this Irish dominance of any European contest (whatever it turns out to be) must continue.
We can't take the foot off their throats now. We annoy the hell out of them but let's not release the choking grip yet.

I think Dougie is being moved into a commercial type role or something to drum up interest from sponsors/players...not quite sure what the ins and outs are.

I agree I cant see DK coming back...he doesnt need the hassle and is happy enough in UCC apparently. LI would be a good move for him though but cants see that happening either.

Well, if I were Foley I'd probably see it as either you move up the ladder or you move onto a different ladder.

or fall off the ladder...like Gats.

Boom Boom....

You should change your name to Basil Brush...seriously...

Oh sorry...Munster rugby...serious topic. Frowns essential. No mickey mouse stuff.

Sorry. Carry on. Foley it is.... going up a ladder preferably

" You know what the 'Leicester' schmaltz is, ME? A few seasons back...a good few actually - when Geordan Murphy was still playing ...and Cockerill had lovely propaganda coming out on a weekly basis about how tough it is at training, where actual bone breaking fights break out between players, encouraged by their savage coaches to separate men from boys. Lovely stuff. I used to enjoy reading the crap."

Secret Fly. The Tigers have one contact session a week which usually involves live scrums, mauls and rucking. Bring together around 40 extremely competitive professional athletes all looking to stake a claim for a starting berth there is bound to be a few flair ups and an awful lot of physicality. Whether you like the idea or not It's a tradition at Tigers and has clearly been effective over the years.

Eddie O'Sullivan was not a good coach for Ireland. He had a brilliant squad and wasted so much of the talent he had at his disposal. He didn't win a six nations and had a dire time at the rugby world cups. He had some great players in POC, Wallace, ROG, BOD, Murphy and Hickie in their prime and couldn't sort it out. I think he'd be a massive step back for Munster.

formerly known as Sam wrote:" You know what the 'Leicester' schmaltz is, ME? A few seasons back...a good few actually - when Geordan Murphy was still playing ...and Cockerill had lovely propaganda coming out on a weekly basis about how tough it is at training, where actual bone breaking fights break out between players, encouraged by their savage coaches to separate men from boys. Lovely stuff. I used to enjoy reading the crap."

Secret Fly. The Tigers have one contact session a week which usually involves live scrums, mauls and rucking. Bring together around 40 extremely competitive professional athletes all looking to stake a claim for a starting berth there is bound to be a few flair ups and an awful lot of physicality. Whether you like the idea or not It's a tradition at Tigers and has clearly been effective over the years.

Sam...the propaganda coming out of Leicester from time to time regarding the intensity of the "live" scrums, mauls and rucking - was shyte.  Over-the-top bullshyte expressly designed to project an image of Leicester toughness.  All training grounds have flair ups and fists thrown.  Leicester isn't and wasn't ever unique in what it requires of its players in training time...and neither has it the luxury to have a dozen players seriously injured in training before they even hit the competitive field.  Propaganda.  I'm glad some people believe it though.

Reputation. The same things have been said for the last decade or so. It's not propaganda from Cockers. The last time he mentioned it in any detail was during the last RWC where the media became fixated with it after he let it slip the squad weren't doing contact as they were too light on players to risk additional injuries. This led to fan pressure following the inevitable bad results and he has to discuss it weekly right up to when he reintroduced the heavy contact in order to fire them up.

Tigers hardly need to issue propaganda based in being physical, history demonstrates that.

Getting back to Munster. ROG in The Irish Examiner here

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/rog-new-coaching-ticket-needs-munster-voice-but-not-mine-258040.html