Ireland vs Wales, 8th February 2014

First topic message reminder :

IRELAND: Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster); Andrew Trimble (Ballymena/Ulster), Brian O'Driscoll (UCD/Leinster), Gordon D'Arcy (Lansdowne/Leinster), Dave Kearney (Lansdowne/Leinster); Jonathan Sexton (Racing Metro 92), Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster); Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster), Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster), Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster), Devin Toner (Lansdowne/Leinster), Paul O'Connell (Young Munster/Munster) (capt), Peter O'Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster), Chris Henry (Malone/Ulster), Jamie Heaslip (Dublin University/Leinster).

Replacements: Sean Cronin (St. Mary's College/Leinster), Jack McGrath (St. Mary's College/Leinster), Martin Moore (Lansdowne/Leinster), Dan Tuohy (Ballymena/Ulster), Tommy O'Donnell (UL Bohemians/Munster), Isaac Boss (Terenure College/Leinster), Paddy Jackson (Dungannon/Ulster), Fergus McFadden (Old Belvedere/Leinster).

WALES: Leigh Halfpenny (Cardiff Blues); Alex Cuthbert (Cardiff Blues), Scott Williams (Scarlets), Jamie Roberts (Racing Metro 92), George North (Northampton Saints); Rhys Priestland (Scarlets), Mike Phillips (Racing Metro 92); Gethin Jenkins (Cardiff Blues), Richard Hibbard (Ospreys), Adam Jones (Ospreys), Andrew Coombs (Newport Gwent Dragons), Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys), Dan Lydiate (Racing Metro 92), Sam Warburton (Cardiff Blues) (capt), Toby Faletau (Newport Gwent Dragons).

Replacements: Ken Owens (Scarlets), Paul James (Bath), Rhodri Jones (Scarlets), Jake Ball (Scarlets), Justin Tipuric (Ospreys), Rhys Webb (Ospreys), James Hook (Perpignan), Liam Williams (Scarlets).

Referee: Wayne Barnes (England)
Assistant Referees: Glen Jackson (New Zealand), JP Doyle (England)
Television Match Official: Graham Hughes (England)

   

Griff wrote:

I think I also heard POM call Mike Phillips a 'feckin' eejit' right into the ref mic. He was spot on in his description though, but some refs don't like the expletives, no matter how they're disguised, so he needs to be careful he doesn't get pinged in future! Great game from him though. Probably my man of the match.

In fairness, I think the fact that Barnes had already spoken to Phillips several times and was getting pretty fed up with him was what saved POM a little there. I agree with whoever said that the Irish captain at the time (Heaslip) did nothing to intervene with POM there. Quite poor from him.

Metal Tiger wrote:

What's the liklihood of a citing for the hit on BOD? Clear shoulder charge & dangerous play.

I think pretty much zero, it didn't look that bad to be honest. It was only made an issue because BOD was involved. Looks like he went into the contact and was committed but BOD passed so he tried to pull out. Would have really hurt BOD but not as much if Williams had completed the hit. In trying to pull out of the hit Williams ended up giving himself an injury.

Gatland's use of the bench makes no sense. He waits until the game has long gone then puts on guys like Tipuric  for one or two minutes. Bizarre. Another area in which he lost out to Schmidt yesterday.

Why was Priestland at 9 in the dying minutes? Was Phillips yellowed?

At one stage the ref clearly tells Warburton "go and talk to your player" meaning Phillips, I think. Sam went back to his position and didn't say a word to anyone. What does that tell us about how the team dynamics?

Nachos Jones wrote:

Metal Tiger wrote:

What's the liklihood of a citing for the hit on BOD? Clear shoulder charge & dangerous play.

I think pretty much zero, it didn't look that bad to be honest. It was only made an issue because BOD was involved. Looks like he went into the contact and was committed but BOD passed so he tried to pull out. Would have really hurt BOD but not as much if Williams had completed the hit. In trying to pull out of the hit Williams ended up giving himself an injury.

I didn't see the replay but I don't think there was any attempt to use his arms in the tackle, straight away I thought it was dangerous. Maybe it looked worst than it actually was, the Irish players didn't seem to react. Again, I'd need to see the replay.

Greg, to me it simply looked like Williams was going in for the tackle and backed off after BOD passed. It looks a lot worse on replay than it did at real time but then everything looks worse on replay when you are looking for something.

Personally I would be surprised if any action was taken, it was clumsy at best.

If you watch the tackle from one angle it shows him clearly trying to get his left arm around and use in the tackle so I doubt there will be any citing.

Gatland said,
"We probably need to look at some individuals and give it a shake up.
"And we'll look to see if we need to do that or give those players we selected today an opportunity to redeem themselves."

What changes do you see coming in if any? If Wales were playing Scotland instead of France next you could make a case for changes at 1,3,6,7,9 & 10.

Trev, unfortunately we have little depth. It's always been a problem. If we make that many changes we end up doing like we did against Samoa or Argentina or Fiji those times when we lost. It's a sad state of affairs, but essentially we're only usually able to make the odd injury change before performance is severely impaired!

I'm hoping that we can bounce back. We gave England a stuffing last year, but they've still been pretty strong since. So I'm hoping that this is a bit if a one off. Yes we've been found out but the game plan has had a fair amount of NH success in the past so if we can up the intensity then it may be fairly successful again.

From a personal point of view I'd prefer us to change gamelan totally to a more quick tempo game that uses field position, but I'm not the coach and have to respect (although not agree with) his decisions and the way he sees the game.

One problem I this we've got is a real inability in the lineout. It means that we're reluctant kick the ball out so we rarely have field position. We try to get our field position with kick chase instead - keep the ball in field, kick and push up and hope to turn over or force an error in the opposition half. Unfortunately, we were gash at the breakdown so couldn't win the ball there and also you had Kearney returning the ball back like a bat out of hell and, because our kick chase was so poor, he was able to run up to out own 10 metre line before he was met by our advancing defensive line! Thus any territory, if we had turned the ball over, was lost.

Notch wrote:Can't believe he didn't bring on Hook when they were chasing the game. Whats the point in having Hook around at all then?

Got to agree, he may as well give Hook a ticket so he can watch the game from the comfort of the stands. Waste of a bench place

Griff wrote:
From a personal point of view I'd prefer us to change gamelan totally to a more quick tempo game that uses field position, but I'm not the coach and have to respect (although not agree with) his decisions and the way he sees the game.

One problem I this we've got is a real inability in the lineout. It means that we're reluctant kick the ball out so we rarely have field position. We try to get our field position with kick chase instead - keep the ball in field, kick and push up and hope to turn over or force an error in the opposition half. Unfortunately, we were gash at the breakdown so couldn't win the ball there and also you had Kearney returning the ball back like a bat out of hell and, because our kick chase was so poor, he was able to run up to out own 10 metre line before he was met by our advancing defensive line! Thus any territory, if we had turned the ball over, was lost.

Yes, that's what I think Wales needs to do. That first bit, Griff.

Look at Ireland. In that 1st half they tried a few Garryowens... some put pressure on 1/2p, some not. Then there was a cross-field kick from Sexton which had too much on it for Trimble... but the right idea was there. Just that the execution was slightly out.

Then with next one where he failed to find touch - 1/2P loses that advantage by failing to find touch (and gain better field position) and handing it back to Ireland for another sortie upfield.

The main thing at that point was Ireland's ability to regularly "ask the question" of the Wales defence and test different methods of attack. In the meantime they kept ahead on the scoreboard and were eventually rewarded with the Henry try. Their patience and dedication to the plan had paid off.

Wales, on the other hand, just to seem to rely on the one G-ball method. The problem is in the halves. You need more creative players there who can put the inner defensive midfield in two minds rather than continually bashing it up the same way every time. That type of approach would put more pressure on a team like England, say... and interrupt their patterns of attack off the base of the breakdowns via Care and Fazz.

Ireland - looked well coached, had a game plan that was right and played with fight and passion - with a ten who controlled the game well and for my money is the best in the NH right now if not the world

Wales - badly needed plan B but did not have one. Tactically naive. Phillips costs them go forward but it was not his fault alone. Forwards failed to adapt to the ref. No variety in the backs

Actually Linebreaker, Dan Biggar does play a bit more of a varied game. Whether this is by design or whether he breaks ranks, I don't know. But he's good at mixing it up with the grubber, chip over the top, cross field kicks, etc. Which is why I'm a bit confused that he's always over looked for Priestland who, at this level, does very little IMO.

One interesting stat is that, before yesterday, Wales hadn't lost away from home in the tournament since 2010. That's pretty impressive. It shows that the gameplan Gatland uses, when done well, is pretty effective in the NH. Not sure we should totally rip it up and start again as this is our most successful period in modern times. But it definitely needs some tweaks. I don't even think it's a plan b as such that's needed - just maybe varying the attack, like I said with the grubbers, cross field kicks, etc. so that the waves of attack are not all exactly the same and predictable. We just need to make the opposition think twice about what's coming which will open a the defensive lines a bit. At the moment teams can use a drift defense as they know we'll try to take it up the middle and go from side to side all day!

Exactly mate. Wales have a grand history of top shelf half backs.

You need one or two now more than ever. Higher risk but they can also provide that decisive edge when needed. Fantastic to watch too!

I haven't seen much of Biggar so I can't really comment. If he's his "own man" type of player, then great... every team needs those. However, they also have to be team players above all else. You can combine the two. It has been done many times before.

I understand there may be hostile opposition to what I'm saying but just trying to offer an alternative from outside the bubble.

Similar to the QC scenario. We recognise the talent, regret some of the blunders he has made... but keep hoping he can perform blinders and minimise the blunders on a more regular basis. Those type of players need a coach who will back them. Then the player can develop better trust with his teammates and hopefully cut out the irrational and costly error stuff as he gains more international experience.

Just thought I'd mention Munsters absolute pummeling of Cardiff 54 13!!!!!

James coughlan mom again and zebo once again showed he is one of the most exciting wingers in rugby (even though he played fb)

Also worth a mention is that JJ hanrahan is now 43 from 46 this season!!! Unbelievable stats

Very simple game plan that was executed perfectly. Will it be enough to beat England and France? Not convinced. However if having played the perfect Munster game they are also able to produce the Leinster game when required then they look a very strong outfit.

Wales however could well catch a proper hiding at Twickenham and against France. Back row was completely overpowered. It was like watching 9 year olds trying to play their Dads in the garden. Welsh players just bounced off Irish lads at the breakdown. England will be hard for days just watching our defence of the driving maul, (which apparently they had worked on all week), which was laughable.

Its pretty hard to see where we go from hear. Yesterdays game was a bit of a "king's new clothes" moment for Gatland and Welsh Rugby.

Just because something has worked before doesnt mean it will continue to do so. You need to constantly adapt(survival of the fittest is actually survival of the most adaptable), for me this defeat was a long time coming. Although, our players didnt perform well either so no change in gameplan would have changed the result. I thought Ireland were pretty good and we can always lose to them but shouldnt of looked so poor ourselves.
I agree with those saying why not bring on Hook and Tips earlier???? I doubt it would make much difference but when chasing a game by a lot and getting played off the park, you need to try something. Hook and Tips are our best ball players. I really dont get that?

And some the cycle begins again. Wales are using, pretty much, the same game plan as they've used since 2008. Strong defence with big guys in the backs.

Often it works, and then Wales are one of the best teams in the world and Gatland is great. Every now and then it doesn't work and Wales are rubbish, and Gatland limited. I wonder how long it is until their next big win (England at Twickenham?) and everything is rosy again?

HammerofThunor wrote:And some the cycle begins again. Wales are using, pretty much, the same game plan as they've used since 2008. Strong defence with big guys in the backs.

Often it works, and then Wales are one of the best teams in the world and Gatland is great. Every now and then it doesn't work and Wales are rubbish, and Gatland limited. I wonder how long it is until their next big win (England at Twickenham?) and everything is rosy again?

Dont really agree mate. Ok maybe to some, but LOTS of Welsh supporters have been calling for a change for a long time. Whether that is in personnel or tactics. Just because I think its time for a change doesnt mean I think Gatland is rubbish, I just think he has given us all he has now. We have had a very strong group of players who should have done well against NH opposition over recent years, England have been average(starting to get better though) France WTF? have been nowhere near as good as they used to and Ireland IMO have under-performed massively when looking at how good the provinces have been. If we hadnt had a decent amount of success in 6 nations it would have been a travesty. How many times have we beaten SH? Even by accident we should of had the odd result. In our 'great' WC run, we basically had one really good win-against Ireland. We lost a close(good game) against SA and lost to France(ok we had 14 men but we should have won, France were crap) and then lost to Aus.

George North really is a freak of nature. The size of his legs.

Great thing about Irelands last three matches is we have employed completely different tactics in each game. Each time Schmidt has more less got it right.

Loved Kearneys battle in the air with 1/2p. Particularly the time he caught the ball and 1/2p at the same time and wrestled the ball off him mid air. You just dont see that sort of thing at club level. Mighty stuff.

GunsGerms wrote:

Loved Kearneys battle in the air with 1/2p. Particularly the time he caught the ball and 1/2p at the same time and wrestled the ball off him mid air. You just dont see that sort of thing at club level. Mighty stuff.

Yeah that was awesome.

The elephant in the room is AWJ is shocking in the lineout. When it was lost early on all the wind went out of the sails.

... Perhaps now French clubs will think twice about spending soo much money on has beens.

GunsGerms wrote:George North really is a freak of nature. The size of his legs.

He certainly works on them... but I doubt he'd have them if he didn't play rugby and do his gym work. Now that would be freakish - massive tree stumps for legs, little head on top.

Haven't seen it mentioned here yet, but how good was Trimble yesterday?

The Welsh clearly had a tactic of targeting him with their restarts and Trimble just took every one of them gratefully, took it into contact and set it up for Murray to get rid. He also made a great break in the Wales 22 where he weaved out and in dodging tackles. Also took a couple of high balls in open play really well. His performances against Scotland and Wales have really justified his selection at 11 thus far.

Trimble was outstanding once again. Fantastic player. Truely deserves every single cap he has ever won.

Agreed Artful_Dodger, Trimble has more than deserved his place in the team and has performed excellently in the two matches so far. What I didn't like was the way BOD totally blanked him as he went off, they may not get along but he deserved at a pat on the back from BOD.

I also thought that D'Arcy had an ok game but I still would have had Marshall ahead of him.

Why don't BOD and Trimble get along?

Nachos Jones wrote:Agreed Artful_Dodger, Trimble has more than deserved his place in the team and has performed excellently in the two matches so far. What I didn't like was the way BOD totally blanked him as he went off, they may not get along but he deserved at a pat on the back from BOD.

I also thought that D'Arcy had an ok game but I still would have had Marshall ahead of him.

You're totally wrong there. They both embraced each other on the field with big smiles on their faces.

Artful_Dodger wrote:Haven't seen it mentioned here yet, but how good was Trimble yesterday?

The Welsh clearly had a tactic of targeting him with their restarts and Trimble just took every one of them gratefully, took it into contact and set it up for Murray to get rid.  He also made a great break in the Wales 22 where he weaved out and in dodging tackles.  Also took a couple of high balls in open play really well.  His performances against Scotland and Wales have really justified his selection at 11 thus far.

Yes he's been great. But he's been released by Schmidt, both mentally in knowing that Schmidt trusts him to do his job (which he publically stated was a confidence booster) plus Schmidt team dyanmics and a team supporting each other effectly (although where the support was for him when he did his weaving run I don't know!!! ) Big slip up in team rhythm there, a real chance lost.

But I hope Schmidt doesn't become a First Team Man and continues to be the Rotation Man that he was at Leinster. Only by having a selection of players operating at Trimble's standards, and being given their game time, will we progress as a unified squad with bloodthirsty goals on our "To Do" list.

Gretgael1 wrote:

Nachos Jones wrote:Agreed Artful_Dodger, Trimble has more than deserved his place in the team and has performed excellently in the two matches so far. What I didn't like was the way BOD totally blanked him as he went off, they may not get along but he deserved at a pat on the back from BOD.

I also thought that D'Arcy had an ok game but I still would have had Marshall ahead of him.

You're totally wrong there. They both embraced each other on the field with big smiles on their faces.

I must admit to not seeing that, I saw BOD snub him as he went by. Fair dues to BOD if he did and I will stand corrected.

Cyril wrote:Why don't BOD and Trimble get along?

Provincial bickering and in-fighting, I reckon - if indeed it's true at all (the Provincial supporters tend to over-cook the bitternesses between players - it's good social media copy!).  But they've had run-ins at Provincial level (once I seem to remember literally speaking when I think Trimble ran O'Driscoll into a side advertising hording.)  Maybe that was another player he impacted with and people will tell me if my memory is correct.  I think it was BOD.

But it's all good clean competitive fun.  I still like both of them - even if they hate each other.

Trimble was always good when he had confidence, real confidence player. I don't think Kidney had confidence in him which had a knock-on effect. Now with the new coaching regime he seems to be enjoying international rugby a lot more.

He is a class act when he's on form, he's proving he can do it. There's not much room for the sexy stuff in test matches in February in the NH so a reliable, physical winger is very valuable. Right now the likes of Zebo and Bowe have a bit more womkaboshy (sp?) but Trimble at his best will be more involved.

SecretFly wrote:

Cyril wrote:Why don't BOD and Trimble get along?

Provincial bickering and in-fighting, I reckon - if indeed it's true at all (the Provincial supporters tend to over-cook the bitternesses between players - it's good social media copy!).  But they've had run-ins at Provincial level (once I seem to remember literally speaking when I think Trimble ran O'Driscoll into a side advertising hording.)  Maybe that was another player he impacted with and people will tell me if my memory is correct.  I think it was BOD.

But it's all good clean competitive fun.  I still like both of them - even if they hate each other.

Cheers. Probably a whole bunch of nothing then

I liked that Ireland didn't try to force an expansive game. There are times you play with width, and times you keep it tight. Once we had the advantage up front you keep on capitalising on that until the opposition commit to stopping you in that facet of the game. Then you check where they have had to give up a little tactically in adjusting to your gameplan and you change to pick on that new hole.

You can see the players that haven't had Joe as a coach before are starting to see and respond to his guidance. He has a role for everyone on the field. They know their responsibility and they really step up and make great accounts of themselves. Trimbles tackle on North early on was great. POC tackle shortly after was a statement of intent.

I wasn't even thinking during the game that we were missing SOB. How great is it to be able to say that. The whole matchday squad looks like they could switch in and out without skipping a beat. We have different tactics for different teams. We seem to be able to hold certain moves and schemes in our back pocket and produce against the team that it will do the most damage. We have smart players, we are giving them responsibility and making them accountable in a real way. Great to hear Joe in the post match interview highlight Trimbles great break and the sloppy recycling of the ball at the subsequent breakdown. He managed to highlight two positives (Trimbles stepping and Kearney stopping the turnover from becoming a major loss of territory) but also an area to improve, two irish players cleared out the breakdown but neither paid attention to securing the ball for the scrumhalf.

We have SOB to come back, Zebo and Gilroy are in waiting. Moore seems to hold his own at TH (but depth behind him might still be an issue). We have gone through a number of second rows with all so far accounting themselves well. Jackson is getting some good experience at this level which will really stand to him developing as the onfield decision maker.

Loads of positives.

Some comments here about POM being chatty to the ref. I actually thought that was pretty good by POM. He could have reacted to an elbow in the face by physically escalating the situation. Barnes penalised him for the lineout, which POM acknowledged, so Barnes knew he was being listened to and shows the referee respect, but POM also voiced his displeasure at being clipped after the whistle was blown (and didn't look to retaliate at the player).

Some comments as well about Heaslip (captain at that stage). He was getting his players back in position for the next play. Not being in there kept Barnes annoyance in the situation at POM for talking and more so at Phillips for being rattled. Heaslip going in there could have turned it from an annoyance towards POM alone to a warning against the whole Irish team (though the focus in the team during this game would keep it from escalating) I thought it was a good move.

Now comes England, it will be interesting how Joe approaches his first away fixture. I like what Lancaster is doing with that side. It should be a good game.

Griff wrote:Trev, unfortunately we have little depth. It's always been a problem. If we make that many changes we end up doing like we did against  Samoa or Argentina or Fiji those times when we lost. It's a sad state of affairs, but essentially we're only usually able to make the odd injury change before performance is severely impaired!

I'm hoping that we can bounce back. We gave England a stuffing last year, but they've still been pretty strong since. So I'm hoping that this is a bit if a one off. Yes we've been found out but the game plan has had a fair amount of NH success in the past so if we can up the intensity then it may be fairly successful again.

From a personal point of view I'd prefer us to change gamelan totally to a more quick tempo game that uses field position, but I'm not the coach and have to respect (although not agree with) his decisions and the way he sees the game.

One problem I this we've got is a real inability in the lineout. It means that we're reluctant kick the ball out so we rarely have field position. We try to get our field position with kick chase instead - keep the ball in field, kick and push up and hope to turn over or force an error in the opposition half. Unfortunately, we were gash at the breakdown so couldn't win the ball there and also you had Kearney returning the ball back like a bat out of hell and, because our kick chase was so poor, he was able to run up to out own 10 metre line before he was met by our advancing defensive line! Thus any territory, if we had turned the ball over, was lost.

Griff, Thats a good point about the line out & it severely limits the game plan. I agree about the tempo & that imo is why Phillips needs a rest. He really looked like the poor elderly version Murray yesterday.

I just said in another thread about how POM is a microcosm of the changes Schmidt has made to Ireland in comparison to Kidney. He used to stand wide looking for the carries and was work shy. Now he is in the thick of the action and has been outstanding. Of course there is a certain revisionist agenda here from some posters. "Oh, sure I told you, he's a future Irish captain in waiting". He didn't look like it for the past two seasons. He does now. Good performances in the present don't make you a good player in the past.

Same with Trimble. Kidney hadn't a clue how to use him. Not a bloody clue. He looked below the required level for an international winger, despite being the form Irish winger at provincial level last season. Schmidt plays to his strengths and he blossoms. Here are are praising Schmidt as if he is a genius. It is the most basic move in a coaches manual. A sad reflection of four years wasted.

Hookism, I'd agree with you that I often end up praising Schmidt as a bit of a genius. But quite often, being able to make the basic and simple tactical decisions can be the stroke of genius.

But you are correct. It is early days. And just like it shouldn't be Joe getting all the credit at the minute for things going right, he shouldn't be thrown out with the dishwater after a poor performance either.

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:

Griff wrote:Trev, unfortunately we have little depth. It's always been a problem. If we make that many changes we end up doing like we did against  Samoa or Argentina or Fiji those times when we lost. It's a sad state of affairs, but essentially we're only usually able to make the odd injury change before performance is severely impaired!

I'm hoping that we can bounce back. We gave England a stuffing last year, but they've still been pretty strong since. So I'm hoping that this is a bit if a one off. Yes we've been found out but the game plan has had a fair amount of NH success in the past so if we can up the intensity then it may be fairly successful again.

From a personal point of view I'd prefer us to change gamelan totally to a more quick tempo game that uses field position, but I'm not the coach and have to respect (although not agree with) his decisions and the way he sees the game.

One problem I this we've got is a real inability in the lineout. It means that we're reluctant kick the ball out so we rarely have field position. We try to get our field position with kick chase instead - keep the ball in field, kick and push up and hope to turn over or force an error in the opposition half. Unfortunately, we were gash at the breakdown so couldn't win the ball there and also you had Kearney returning the ball back like a bat out of hell and, because our kick chase was so poor, he was able to run up to out own 10 metre line before he was met by our advancing defensive line! Thus any territory, if we had turned the ball over, was lost.

Griff, Thats a good point about the line out & it severely limits the game plan. I agree about the tempo & that imo is why Phillips needs a rest. He really looked like the poor elderly version Murray yesterday.

I don't think Howley telling Phillips not to take on his opposite number could have helped. Maybe thats a bit too strong, but certainly saying don't get involved in a duel with your opposite number is a sign of weakness for me. Murray probably had his tail as he would have taken that as a suggestion that Wales didn't think Phillips could take him on.

Its an obvious move to wind Phillips up. Its easy to do and reduces his effectiveness. No player needs an invite to do so.

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:I just said in another thread about how POM is a microcosm of the changes Schmidt has made to Ireland in comparison to Kidney.  He used to stand wide looking for the carries and was work shy.  Now he is in the thick of the action and has been outstanding.  Of course there is a certain revisionist agenda here from some posters.  "Oh, sure I told you, he's a future Irish captain in waiting".  He didn't look like it for the past two seasons.  He does now.  Good performances in the present don't make you a good player in the past.

Same with Trimble.  Kidney hadn't a clue how to use him.  Not a bloody clue.  He looked below the required level for an international winger, despite being the form Irish winger at provincial level last season.  Schmidt plays to his strengths and he blossoms.  Here are are praising Schmidt as if he is a genius.  It is the most basic move in a coaches manual.  A sad reflection of four years wasted.
 

Hookie dont let your own revisionism affect your judgement    Go look at the stats for last year about him being workshy his tackling, turnovers, gainline success are all similar to this year. The one thing he has changed is that he is tending not to get himself injured as much and with Munster as with Ireland he is a lot smarter around the contact area and doesnt go in headfirst as he did before...

At this stage we have won two home games against a poor scotland and disappointing welsh team. We have done this through leathering the ball and playing what would have been termed Munster style rugby in the past....at this stage Schmidt has done the minimum....lets see what happens against England and Ireland (really looking forward to both)

Trev, agree on Phillips. He used to have size, strength AND pace. Probably in his mid to late 20's. But sadly with age and injuries he has lost a lot of pace. Pretty much every time another scrum half comes on for him there is an instant upturn in pace. I'm not keen on some of them (e.g. Lloyd Williams) bit even he lifts the tempo straightaway. Big lumps like Roberts are even more effective with quick ball as the defensive line has not had chance to set. With slow ball he's just gang tackled and more likely to be turned over.

I genuinely feel sorry for other scrum halves in Wales!

Dead right Dodger. I admit to some concerns before the game about what our wings could create, but Trimble and D. Kearney couldna done more. Both making some really good breaks, and solid under the high ball. I'm liking aswell their versatility in executing a gameplan. Dunno how it will shape up when our full compliment of wings are back..

Wales were just rubbish. No threat in the midfield, too many basic errors and a lack of variety to the game. If the game plan is not working a top class side should have a back up plan or something different to bring to the table. Wales just don't under Gatland and its frustrating as a fan because we have the players to change to a different style.

Gatland's subsitutions have always annoyed me because I always feel he makes them way too late. Hook not coming on was just mind boggling as well as Webb. Tipuric coming on too late again. Should have come on with Webb and Hook on 60 mins with Warbs (who i thought played decent) moving to 6. Wales were just too slow and predictable in attack. Changes need to be made for the French game, with the Biggar coming back in being my priority. He was superb last year and has been good this season so I genuinely do not know how he's dropped out of the match day squad. He's shown he has the composure for this level whereas Preistland, who I thought did ok yesterday, just doesn't. Only Gatland it seems fails to see this. For France I'd go:

Jenkins
Hibbard
Jones
AWJ
Charteris (if fit)
Lydiate
Warbs
Faletau
Phillips (Webb)
Biggar
North
Williams (if fit, roberts if not)
JD2
Cuthbert
1/2p

Owens
James
Lee
Ball
Tips (On earlier!!)
Webb (On earlier!)
Hook
Roberts/S.Williams

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:I just said in another thread about how POM is a microcosm of the changes Schmidt has made to Ireland in comparison to Kidney.  He used to stand wide looking for the carries and was work shy.  Now he is in the thick of the action and has been outstanding.  Of course there is a certain revisionist agenda here from some posters.  "Oh, sure I told you, he's a future Irish captain in waiting".  He didn't look like it for the past two seasons.  He does now.  Good performances in the present don't make you a good player in the past.

Same with Trimble.  Kidney hadn't a clue how to use him.  Not a bloody clue.  He looked below the required level for an international winger, despite being the form Irish winger at provincial level last season.  Schmidt plays to his strengths and he blossoms.  Here are are praising Schmidt as if he is a genius.  It is the most basic move in a coaches manual.  A sad reflection of four years wasted.
 

Great post, and it certainly seems to be the case. For years we have seen players looking totally lost, uncomfortable and not playing to their strengths. Within months, Schmidt already seems to be turning that around. Although I disagreed with the call to drop Marshall, the selection of D'Arcy was definitely the correct call! The game plan called for the experience of D'Arcy, and he has been in great form recently. The whole team just seemed to know their role, and they finally gelled.

As for Trimble, he was the form winger in Ireland in 2011, when he wasn't selected for the world cup. He was the form winger (ahead of Bowe and Gilroy it seemed) for Ulster last season, and it seemed criminal that he was barely even mentioned as an option. Schmidt picks him, and he delivers immediately. He had a fantastic game yesterday, totally outplaying the outstanding George North.

It is early days, but there is a lot to feel positive about. More creativity in the backs would be great to see, but for the game yesterday, Schmidt had his tactics spot on and it paid off. I expect Schmidt to play the horses for courses approach, both in how he uses his players and how he wants Ireland to play the game.

ME-109 wrote:

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:I just said in another thread about how POM is a microcosm of the changes Schmidt has made to Ireland in comparison to Kidney.  He used to stand wide looking for the carries and was work shy.  Now he is in the thick of the action and has been outstanding.  Of course there is a certain revisionist agenda here from some posters.  "Oh, sure I told you, he's a future Irish captain in waiting".  He didn't look like it for the past two seasons.  He does now.  Good performances in the present don't make you a good player in the past.

Same with Trimble.  Kidney hadn't a clue how to use him.  Not a bloody clue.  He looked below the required level for an international winger, despite being the form Irish winger at provincial level last season.  Schmidt plays to his strengths and he blossoms.  Here are are praising Schmidt as if he is a genius.  It is the most basic move in a coaches manual.  A sad reflection of four years wasted.
 

Hookie dont let your own revisionism affect your judgement    Go look at the stats for last year about him being workshy his tackling, turnovers, gainline success are all similar to this year. The one thing he has changed is that he is tending not to get himself injured as much and with Munster as with Ireland he is a lot smarter around the contact area and doesnt go in headfirst as he did before...

At this stage we have won two home games against a poor scotland and disappointing welsh team. We have done this through leathering the ball and playing what would have been termed Munster style rugby in the past....at this stage Schmidt has done the minimum....lets see what happens against England and Ireland (really looking forward to both)

DOD, I'll give you a chance to go look at the stats for the matches against Wales, Scotland, England and France last season and then you can quietly delete this comment because they will make an absolute mockery of you. I like you too much to do that to you. I think I have a man crush on you. You treat me mean and keep me keen.

So will sides now expect and plan for rolling mauls from Ireland?

Maybe that's the plan  The best kind of gameplan is to have two ready.  If the team buys the first one and concentrates on stopping it, that's the foundation stone for instigating another one.  And if the team quickly adapts to the new one then back to the old one.  I can see Ireland developing into that kind of team with the opposition asking themselves "Do we put bodies in there and stop that or will that give them the space to do the other thing?"  It's almost coaxing the opposition to go all out in stopping the rolling maul.

Nachos Jones wrote:Greg, to me it simply looked like Williams was going in for the tackle and backed off after BOD passed. It looks a lot worse on replay than it did at real time but then everything looks worse on replay when you are looking for something.

Personally I would be surprised if any action was taken, it was clumsy at best.

Yeah I don't think it was malicious,he rushed up as he anticipated Bod would receive the ball and went to absolutely smash him.His pressure forced Bod into throwing an intercept and I'd say he attempted to pull out when he saw the bal was gone and his momentum wouldn't allow it.I'd have no complaints about it.

SecretFly wrote:So will sides now expect and plan for rolling mauls from Ireland?

Maybe that's the plan  The best kind of gameplan is to have two ready.  If the team buys the first one and concentrates on stopping it, that's the foundation stone for instigating another one.  And if the team quickly adapts to the new one then back to the old one.  I can see Ireland developing into that kind of team with the opposition asking themselves "Do we put bodies in there and stop that or will that give them the space to do the other thing?"  It's almost coaxing the opposition to go all out in stopping the rolling maul.

i can't remember where but I read a good piece of analysis which theorised that JS tried to develop a strong maul at Leinster since teams were disrupting our ball illegally at the breakdown and he wanted to both discourage them and punish them.The theory being that if teams don't want to defend against rolling mauls they'll have to back off in the breakdown contest and thus allow us the quick ball that he loves.