Warren Gatland From Here

First topic message reminder :

Walesonline has an article arguing that Gatland wasn't just out-thought by Joe Schmidt at the weekend, he has also lost the next Lions coaching role to his Kiwi rival:

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/sport-opinion/analysis-ireland-coach-joe-schmidt-6688824

It is a curious time for the man who really had no rivals when the coach was selected for the Lions tour to Australia. He has enough success in the bank to survive a poor Six nations this year. And it may not even be poor - wins over France, England and Scotland would settle the nerves in Wales, even if it probably won't win a Championship without some big scorelines in their favour.

Nevertheless, it's often been true in rugby that successful coaches can come a cropper when results start to go against them. Certainly, as that article reminds us, Gatland and Wales didn't set the world alight in 2009 or 2010. However, many of his leading players, and the coaching team, came out with enhanced reputations after the Lions tour of South Africa in the middle of that period.

What if Wales have a very poor tournament and lose another couple of games? I don't get the sense that anyone is clamouring for Gatland's head, and not simply because there are few other realistic candidates. He's in charge of Wales through to the next World Cup.

And yet the next challenge for his team is a tour of South Africa. If fatigue is playing a part at all in the undercooked performances to date, then a summer serving of Springboks is unlikely to be the answer. Would Gatland write off this season, rest key players, and look to come our firing for the World Cup in 2015? In 2007, Brian Ashton (<-- edited thanks to Scrumpy) took an England squad to South Africa missing many leading players (not his choice, mind you) and watched them get smashed. A few months later, his team made it to a World Cup final.

If Gatland does field his top players in summer, and comes off second best, then his World Cup preparation is left looking a bit bedraggled.

Graham Henry is one of the few rugby coaches - the only coach? - to take his team to highs, watch them crash, but then have the opportunity to get take them to the top. His case is interesting. in 2009, New Zealand were looking good but the coaching team had been in place for several years and there was a sense things were getting stale. Two years out from the World Cup, Henry, Hansen and Smith all swapped jobs.

Can Gatland freshen up his coaching team in some fashion? I can't think who might step up or down but the current poor relationship between the regions and the WRU might make changes difficult anyway.

What seems to be crucial is that Gatland retains the dressing room. It was interesting to hear former Wales hooker Huw Bennett on Scrum V yesterday. He rejected the accusation that Wales had no Plan B after Plan A had failed. Bennett revealed that Gatlandball, or Warrenball, is actually called "The Pattern", by the players. He said he was a big supporter of the strategy because it had brought so much success. For him, the pattern didn't fail against Ireland because Wales never got into it in the first place.

If Gatland is to continue with his strategy, then his current squad will need to share Bennett's opinion: Ireland didn't break down them down, they just failed to execute with their usual accuracy. If instead, they begin to doubt the gameplan, then Wales' ability to fight their way back into matches, something they have often shown to good effect over the years, will be undermined.

Gatland could do with two big victories right now over France and England. Win those, and he'd probably ever get away even with losing to Scotland. Two losses, and he's got to find a way to reunite his squad in common purpose in time for the World Cup.

Just a thought.I had Ireland down to win this match,though not by much.Warburton,Jenkins and Lydiate and Roberts needed game time.
Did Gatland look at the bigger picture?
Time will tell.

Ah here, Wales will definitely beat France. It's like I'm watching a different France to everyone else- they are so sloppy, all over the place. They are basically a collection of individuals and the basics of rucking are completely absent from their game. They are really loose in that area, their breakdown is guaranteed slow ball- so basically if you can stop Bastareaud, Picamoles and Nyanga making the initial big carries off static ball and not allow Fofana soft shoulders to run at they have nothing. If you give them turnovers, interceptions, defend passively... yeah they can play a bit once they get in behind you but they literally have nothing if you stop them on the gainline. No ideas. The other threat they have is their scrum is a weapon so you don't want to play risky rugby in your own half because they can grind out penalties but play field position, target their breakdown and turn them around and Wales will take this comfortably in the end.

They will beat teams through flashes of individual brilliance, but they are no team themselves. They are going to get found out sooner or later. Lydiate and Warburton would kill them if they were anywhere near their best- chop tackles on the ball carriers and straight over the ball. Wales should be targeting the breakdown in the same way the Irish targeted the Welsh breakdown.

Notch wrote:Ah here, Wales will definitely beat France. It's like I'm watching a different France to everyone else- they are so sloppy, all over the place. They are basically a collection of individuals and the basics of rucking are completely absent from their game. Their breakdown is guaranteed slow ball- so basically if you can stop Bastareaud, Picamoles and Nyanga making the initial big carries off static ball and not allow Fofana soft shoulders to run at they have nothing. If you give them turnovers, interceptions, defend passively... yeah they can play a bit once they get in behind you but they literally have nothing if you stop them on the gainline. No ideas. They are going to get found out sooner or later.

They will beat teams through flashes of individual brilliance, but they are no team themselves. Lydiate and Warburton would kill them if they were anywhere near their best- chop tackles on the ball carriers and straight over the ball. Wales should be targeting the breakdown in the same way the Irish targeted the Welsh breakdown.

No I agree, France do not look excellent

fa0019 wrote:not a surprise given Gatland overused (rightly or wrongly) his Welsh players during the lions tour whilst Ireland and England players were more rested.

The Welsh bar Hibbard just didn't look like they were at the races. Fatigue looked like it was a factor.

that probably is also something to do with the fact that the biggest stars also play in top14 where they are actually expected to turn out every week if they are a first choice starter.

i dont buy the lions fatigue nonsense for a second.

new scrum rules yes. rubbish 9/10 combination yes.

We've heard this all before in 2010 and 2011 and then what happened? Grand Slam and championship.

The Wales players possibly look flat because most of them don't know where they'll be playing next year.

I think Adam Jones needs a few games off and I'd bring in Samson. He is purpose built for the new laws. If also start Paul James. I like the balance of Warburton at 6 and tips at 7 and for God's sake Philips needs to be put out to pasture. I've been a huge fan of his but his day is gone. There are a couple of decent young 9s who aren't getting game time because of him.

I still rate priest above Biggar although I know he can be knocked. The centres pick themselves when fit as do the wings. He needs a couple of game off and give liam a start at 15. He won't let anyone down and is potentially a better 15 then leigh.


I don't think gatland Can take all the blame as his Tactics have worked fine previously. Yes they're dull and predictable but have been effective. I would like to see more variation but two games does not Make a Bad coach.