Ireland for World Cup Glory?

by GloriousEmpire Mon 10 Feb 2014, 11:51 am

Look. This is a decent Ireland team.

In recent memory they've pushed NZ like nobody else in world rugby managed and were just a composed 30 seconds from glory.

They've punished a flattering Scotland and flattened six nations champions and the lions pride of Wales.

The architecture of the squad is great: a lethal and mobile unit, and nippy backs. Most notably there is a core of experienced and battle hardened forwards with years of experience.

In a guy like PoC there is a guy who's been there done that, but doesn't yet have the t-shirt to show for it. Drive mixed with experience and ability is a potent keg of fireworks.

Out in the backs is a lovely mix of experience and raw excitement.

The whole cocktail is married up with the second best starting 10 in world rugby, with an accurate boot and composure which has only faltered once.

Importantly, the side is base around a core club level side with well oiled combinations and then augmented with rich power from elsewhere, with a coach who knows the players inside out. This side is FORMIDDABLE.

Possibly the lynch pin is the all-accomplishing BoD with just a World Cup and win over NZ missing from his resume. A worthy World Cup captain who clearly has desire left in the pit of his stomach, and one of the most complete rugby brains on the planet. Most importantly a steady hand on the tiller and an eternal source of inspiration to those around him.

If BoD can be stretched out for the RWC, I can see an epic final between NZ and Ireland playing out, provided Ireland can keep key men like Cian Healy (the best prop in the world, full stop), heaslip, Murray, sexton, Kearney, o'mahony.

Ireland at last have an axis, and a coach who knows what to do with one.

by disneychilly Mon 10 Feb 2014, 12:01 pm

I've got this sinking feeling that Sexton will have his Stephen Donald redemption moment against NZ in the World Cup quarterfinal.

Three games in a row Ireland have played very well. Are they playing South Africa in November? That would be great to watch.

by GloriousEmpire Mon 10 Feb 2014, 12:03 pm

It would be great to see Ireland snatch victory from
The jaws of defeat and cash in during the twilight of the golden generation, so cruelly wasted under kidneys bizarre tactics.

And doesn't rugby love a fairy tale ?

by Cyril Mon 10 Feb 2014, 12:04 pm

GloriousEmpire wrote:
In recent memory they've pushed NZ like nobody else in world rugby managed and were just a composed 30 seconds from glory.

I'd argue that England smashing NZ in 2012 more than 'pushed' them.

Still recent memory for most of us.

by GloriousEmpire Mon 10 Feb 2014, 12:07 pm

As it will remain until your next victory in 2021 Cyril. England has their chance this year and fluffed their lines.

by SecretFly Mon 10 Feb 2014, 12:07 pm

World Cup glory sometime this Century....maybe. Wink

The Irish don't do rushed.

But it is nice to see a few people finally recognise the difference between a bad coaching system and a good one. And how good players can crumble into themselves under a bad system and come out and shine again under a good one.

It's early days but so often Irish fans have had to defend their players against the slur that Declan Kidney was a good coach (with no structural evidence to back them up) being held back by the quality of players he has at his disposal. And we kept saying: "Oh yeah? Well it's the same players that have been dominating European club rugby for the past six or seven years. Something is wrong - and it ain't the players"

by disneychilly Mon 10 Feb 2014, 12:11 pm

Cyril wrote:
GloriousEmpire wrote:
In recent memory they've pushed NZ like nobody else in world rugby managed and were just a composed 30 seconds from glory.
I'd argue that England smashing NZ in 2012 more than 'pushed' them.

Still recent memory for most of us.

Trust me Cyril, 1993 2002 and 2003 are all recent enough

by Cyril Mon 10 Feb 2014, 12:14 pm

GloriousEmpire wrote:As it will remain until your next victory in 2021 Cyril. England has their chance this year and fluffed their lines.

That's right. Ireland almost got there but fluffed their lines too.

by GloriousEmpire Mon 10 Feb 2014, 12:24 pm

Cyril wrote:
GloriousEmpire wrote:As it will remain until your next victory in 2021 Cyril. England has their chance this year and fluffed their lines.
That's right. Ireland almost got there but fluffed their lines too.

Cyril, stop derailing the thread by trying to make it all about England.

by GloriousEmpire Mon 10 Feb 2014, 12:24 pm

Cyril wrote:
GloriousEmpire wrote:As it will remain until your next victory in 2021 Cyril. England has their chance this year and fluffed their lines.
That's right. Ireland almost got there but fluffed their lines too.

Cyril, stop derailing the thread by trying to make it all about England.

by Cyril Mon 10 Feb 2014, 12:29 pm

GloriousEmpire wrote:
Cyril wrote:
GloriousEmpire wrote:As it will remain until your next victory in 2021 Cyril. England has their chance this year and fluffed their lines.
That's right. Ireland almost got there but fluffed their lines too.

Cyril, stop derailing the thread by trying to make it all about England.

Fair enough. Just get your facts straight Smile

by **Notch** Mon 10 Feb 2014, 12:41 pm

Meh, we're just concerned with going to England and winning.

by asoreleftshoulder Mon 10 Feb 2014, 12:42 pm

disneychilly wrote:I've got this sinking feeling that Sexton will have his Stephen Donald redemption moment against NZ in the World Cup quarterfinal.

Three games in a row Ireland have played very well. Are they playing South Africa in November? That would be great to watch.

No chance unless NZ plan on coming 2nd in their group,we'll definitely beat the French unless they sack St.Andre and get someone with a clue,the Italian coach is a Frenchman and looks to have done a really good job with limited resources,he'd be a good shout imo.

by asoreleftshoulder Mon 10 Feb 2014, 12:44 pm

GloriousEmpire wrote:Look. This is a decent Ireland team.

In recent memory they've pushed NZ like nobody else in world rugby managed and were just a composed 30 seconds from glory.

They've punished a flattering Scotland and flattened six nations champions and the lions pride of Wales.

The architecture of the squad is great: a lethal and mobile unit, and nippy backs. Most notably there is a core of experienced and battle hardened forwards with years of experience.

In a guy like PoC there is a guy who's been there done that, but doesn't yet have the t-shirt to show for it. Drive mixed with experience and ability is a potent keg of fireworks.

Out in the backs is a lovely mix of experience and raw excitement.

The whole cocktail is married up with the second best starting 10 in world rugby, with an accurate boot and composure which has only faltered once.

Importantly, the side is base around a core club level side with well oiled combinations and then augmented with rich power from elsewhere, with a coach who knows the players inside out. This side is FORMIDDABLE.

Possibly the lynch pin is the all-accomplishing BoD with just a World Cup and win over NZ missing from his resume. A worthy World Cup captain who clearly has desire left in the pit of his stomach, and one of the most complete rugby brains on the planet. Most importantly a steady hand on the tiller and an eternal source of inspiration to those around him.

If BoD can be stretched out for the RWC, I can see an epic final between NZ and Ireland playing out, provided Ireland can keep key men like Cian Healy (the best prop in the world, full stop), heaslip, Murray, sexton, Kearney, o'mahony.

Ireland at last have an axis, and a coach who knows what to do with one.

Won't happen he's got 3 more games for Ireland left and that's it,he's said he just can't handle going through another 2 preseasons and anyway his performances while still competent are nowhere near what they were.He's getting out at the right time imo cos Henshaw will overtake him very soon.

by SecretFly Mon 10 Feb 2014, 12:50 pm

Henshaw might replace him. It'll be some time (years) and many honed skillsets later that he might overtake him Wink

by asoreleftshoulder Mon 10 Feb 2014, 1:02 pm

SecretFly wrote:Henshaw might replace him. It'll be some time (years) and many honed skillsets later that he might overtake him

Not imo,Bod now isn't the player he was last year and next year he'll be a little worse while Henshaw will be better again.Henshaw isn't catching up on a static target,the level he needs to surpass Bod gets lower every year.

by **rodders** Mon 10 Feb 2014, 1:37 pm

We'll have no more of this RWC chat thank you it's distracting us from the Heineken cup!

by kiakahaaotearoa Mon 10 Feb 2014, 1:40 pm

Ireland certainly look a threat. If they continue to do well this year, it'll be interesting how Schmidt gets them reacting to the favourites tag they'll receive if they go all the way. Ireland like the underdog tag. They haven't been so keen in the past with the favourites tag.

by Mickado Mon 10 Feb 2014, 1:46 pm

Spoiler:

by fa0019 Mon 10 Feb 2014, 1:49 pm

They were dusted off pretty easily by AUS no?

Prove in the pudding will be their away results vs. France and England in this 6N... win both and I think they could go far. But as well as they have played I would say both France and England are favourites to beat Ireland at home at the moment.

by SecretFly Mon 10 Feb 2014, 1:49 pm

asoreleftshoulder wrote:
SecretFly wrote:Henshaw might replace him. It'll be some time (years) and many honed skillsets later that he might overtake him

Not imo,Bod now isn't the player he was last year and next year he'll be a little worse while Henshaw will be better again.Henshaw isn't catching up on a static target,the level he needs to surpass Bod gets lower every year.

Maybe I didn't explain myself more clearly. Henshaw won't have time now to overtake O'Driscoll now anyway. O'Driscoll is already thinking of slippers and a pipe. But what I meant was that Henshaw now (as he is as a player now) has quite a while to go before he's the calibre of O'Driscoll in his youthful prime. It may happen... but he'll need time.

by SecretFly Mon 10 Feb 2014, 1:52 pm

fa0019 wrote:They were dusted off pretty easily by AUS no?

Prove in the pudding will be their away results vs. France and England in this 6N... win both and I think they could go far. But as well as they have played I would say both France and England are favourites to beat Ireland at home at the moment.

We wouldn't have it any other way. Indeed, I was goading the English boys on another thread to come clean and declare themselves favourites Wink

No problem with that - it'll be true on both counts. But the game takes care of itself. And whilst respectful of the opposition we are to meet - nobody will be terrified or afraid.

by asoreleftshoulder Mon 10 Feb 2014, 1:58 pm

fa0019 wrote:They were dusted off pretty easily by AUS no?

Prove in the pudding will be their away results vs. France and England in this 6N... win both and I think they could go far. But as well as they have played I would say both France and England are favourites to beat Ireland at home at the moment.

They are according to the bookies and I plan on taking advantage of that.

by asoreleftshoulder Mon 10 Feb 2014, 2:01 pm

SecretFly wrote:
asoreleftshoulder wrote:
SecretFly wrote:Henshaw might replace him. It'll be some time (years) and many honed skillsets later that he might overtake him

Not imo,Bod now isn't the player he was last year and next year he'll be a little worse while Henshaw will be better again.Henshaw isn't catching up on a static target,the level he needs to surpass Bod gets lower every year.

Maybe I didn't explain myself more clearly. Henshaw won't have time now to overtake O'Driscoll now anyway. O'Driscoll is already thinking of slippers and a pipe. But what I meant was that Henshaw now (as he is as a player now) has quite a while to go before he's the calibre of O'Driscoll in his youthful prime. It may happen... but he'll need time.

Ah well I doubt he'll ever be close to BoD in his prime,that's a level that only a handful of players ever achieve.I think he'll be very good but we'll be waiting a long time if we want to find another BoD.

by fa0019 Mon 10 Feb 2014, 2:03 pm

SecretFly wrote:
fa0019 wrote:They were dusted off pretty easily by AUS no?

Prove in the pudding will be their away results vs. France and England in this 6N... win both and I think they could go far. But as well as they have played I would say both France and England are favourites to beat Ireland at home at the moment.

We wouldn't have it any other way. Indeed, I was goading the English boys on another thread to come clean and declare themselves favourites No problem with that - it'll be true on both counts. But the game takes care of itself. And whilst respectful of the opposition we are to meet - nobody will be terrified or afraid.

I don't think being slight favourites/underdogs means much in this particular game. England are at home, Ireland are on for the GS, England have won last 2 matches, Ireland have better pedigree of players some may suggest.

But playing at home is so advantageous that it probably just swings the game towards England.

Pressure is on both sides, win and England are back in the hunt etc. Its very much like the last England Ireland match.

by SecretFly Mon 10 Feb 2014, 2:14 pm

fa0019 wrote:.

Pressure is on both sides, win and England are back in the hunt etc. Its very much like the last England Ireland match.

I know Ireland won't even consider this...but since I'm just a follower it's okay for me to say. But really, there is more pressure on England. Ireland will play to win...but England really do Need to win. If they lose they're out of the race...or at least the odds on them being in the race at the end has greatly reduced. So they Need to win. Ireland will psychologically get themselves ready saying they Need to win the game too but the truth is they'll still be in a Championship race even if they lose.

More pressure on England in real terms... but, I admit, the Irish team won't be thinking like me.

Anyway, I think we're all disrupting GE's thread.

by fa0019 Mon 10 Feb 2014, 2:21 pm

Yeah you should win your homegames fly, that I agree and therefore England are more expected to win.

For Ireland at the world cup... they have as good of a run in if they can top their group then anyone out there.

If they win they miss both NZ and SA until a potential final... They can beat all the rest. But can they top the group?

What will Ireland be like without BOD?

Not that far away now. Can't change teams signficantly in 18 months. 10 of the players are locked in already you would think.

by GunsGerms Mon 10 Feb 2014, 2:26 pm

BOD is probably one of our weakest players now but still playing well. Schmidt is attempting to change the culture in Irish rugby from an over reliance on key players to a more squad focussed effort. This has always been our undoing at the RWC.

We currently have the strongest squad in the history of Irish rugby. As for the OP either GE is very fickle and had a change of heart or is taking the pish. Either way glad to see you posting from your eco lodge. Hope the holiday is going well.

by SecretFly Mon 10 Feb 2014, 2:31 pm

fa0019 wrote:

What will Ireland be like without BOD?

I'd say most seasoned Irish rugby fans (Provincial as well as International) already believe he's past it. I don't think many of them would blink a second time if he wasn't 13 for any of the next games down the line in this 6N....except maybe the blinks that would come from being solidly beaten! Wink

Anyway, I think I have a feeling from listening to the Irish over the last year or two that the above supposition is a true one. Needless to say, I don't believe it and don't believe he's past it. Yes, he's retiring but he's retiring whilst putting in heavy duty defensive shifts and playing to team requirements. I genuinely don't think any alternative 13 would excel his defensive, breakdown duties over the course of the last two games.... and I think the bone cruncher hit that he got in the Welsh game might have sidelined an alternative 13.

So I think we'll get by with another 13. I think he'll be moulded to suit Schmidt's plans and it might prove more potent in attacking terms than possibly O'Driscoll could be in his closing years. But for all round game awareness, breakdown work, defensive steel and the occasional moments of space creating genius...he'll be a hard hard act to follow.

by SecretFly Mon 10 Feb 2014, 2:31 pm

Ha! Guns speaks to prove my point. Sorry Guns, didn't see you up there.

by fa0019 Mon 10 Feb 2014, 2:37 pm

I think you guys are right about BOD being weak play wise now but don't underestimate his talisman importance to the team.

SA got rid of Teichmann in 99 replaced by a superior player in Skinstad but the importance he had on the team via leadership was huge. With him I think they would have won the world cup in 99.

Its difficult to gauge for me.

by GunsGerms Mon 10 Feb 2014, 2:38 pm

Jarod Payne will be Ireland 13 in November more than likely. It should be a smooth enough transition. If not him maybe Robbie Hendshaw or an other. Either way it doesnt really matter. Whatever team you are you play to your strengths. Irelands strengths are elsewhere now.

by **rodders** Mon 10 Feb 2014, 2:39 pm

GunsGerms wrote:BOD is probably one of our weakest players now but still playing well. Schmidt is attempting to change the culture in Irish rugby from an over reliance on key players to a more squad focussed effort. This has always been our undoing at the RWC.

We currently have the strongest squad in the history of Irish rugby.

I think he's played pretty well over the past 2 games. I think he could do another year if he wanted on current form.

by GunsGerms Mon 10 Feb 2014, 2:40 pm

fa0019 wrote:I think you guys are right about BOD being weak play wise now but don't underestimate his talisman importance to the team.

SA got rid of Teichmann in 99 replaced by a superior player in Skinstad but the importance he had on the team via leadership was huge. With him I think they would have won the world cup in 99.

Its difficult to gauge for me.

I dont see him as weak or as a weakness just probably our weakest player or one of them. In two games so far he has validated his inclusion by being very solid, making very few mistakes, getting through plenty of work without being a game changer.

He doesnt have that big an influence as he isnt captain or reserve captain.

by fa0019 Mon 10 Feb 2014, 2:42 pm

I have to say I think the squad of 06-07 was very strong a team I think which should have won at least 2 championships more.

by funnyExiledScot Mon 10 Feb 2014, 2:46 pm

It's been a great start by Ireland, but I think the next fixture at Twickenham is going to really test this Irish side. England have a dynamic and mobile pack better suited to playing Ireland than the lethargic effort from Wales, and the incompetent one from Scotland. It will also be a first trip away for Ireland, and this will be England coming home. Home advantage could play a big role here, particularly if England start well.

Still, great times for Irish rugby. Good squad of players, some really exciting young backs and an awesome coach. Believe me, you're lucky to have all that!

by gregortree Mon 10 Feb 2014, 2:59 pm

I thought Glorious was on holiday Tumbleweed

and giving 606ers a censored

rest ?

by GunsGerms Mon 10 Feb 2014, 3:01 pm

gregortree wrote:I thought Glorious was on holiday and giving 606ers a rest ?

He is at an eco lodge with wifi.

by SecretFly Mon 10 Feb 2014, 3:10 pm

He must have broken into a neighbouring lodge to use their smartphone.... I'm sure he left some money on the pillow to cover the costs of the break-in

by gregortree Mon 10 Feb 2014, 3:10 pm

GunsGerms wrote:
fa0019 wrote:I think you guys are right about BOD being weak play wise now but don't underestimate his talisman importance to the team.

SA got rid of Teichmann in 99 replaced by a superior player in Skinstad but the importance he had on the team via leadership was huge. With him I think they would have won the world cup in 99.

Its difficult to gauge for me.

I dont see him as weak or as a weakness just probably our weakest player or one of them. In two games so far he has validated his inclusion by being very solid, making very few mistakes, getting through plenty of work without being a game changer.

He doesnt have that big an influence as he isnt captain or reserve captain.

BOD did it for Gatland.. who is a great motivator....

by Cyril Mon 10 Feb 2014, 7:05 pm

SecretFly wrote:He must have broken into a neighbouring lodge to use their smartphone.... I'm sure he left some money on the pillow to cover the costs of the break-in

That was Quade Cooper's excuse too censored

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Mon 10 Feb 2014, 7:10 pm

GloriousEmpire wrote:

In recent memory they've pushed NZ like nobody else in world rugby managed and were just a composed 30 seconds from glory.

Id hardly call 0-63 pushing them hard but its good to see you expressing a positive opinion for once GE

by disneychilly Mon 10 Feb 2014, 7:20 pm

asoreleftshoulder wrote:
disneychilly wrote:I've got this sinking feeling that Sexton will have his Stephen Donald redemption moment against NZ in the World Cup quarterfinal.

Three games in a row Ireland have played very well. Are they playing South Africa in November? That would be great to watch.

No chance unless NZ plan on coming 2nd in their group,we'll definitely beat the French unless they sack St.Andre and get someone with a clue,the Italian coach is a Frenchman and looks to have done a really good job with limited resources,he'd be a good shout imo.

LOL. You used the words definitely and French in the same sentence talking about a World Cup. In reply to a New Zealander's post.

by Gretgael1 Tue 11 Feb 2014, 2:45 pm

SecretFly wrote:
asoreleftshoulder wrote:
SecretFly wrote:Henshaw might replace him. It'll be some time (years) and many honed skillsets later that he might overtake him

Not imo,Bod now isn't the player he was last year and next year he'll be a little worse while Henshaw will be better again.Henshaw isn't catching up on a static target,the level he needs to surpass Bod gets lower every year.

Maybe I didn't explain myself more clearly. Henshaw won't have time now to overtake O'Driscoll now anyway. O'Driscoll is already thinking of slippers and a pipe. But what I meant was that Henshaw now (as he is as a player now) has quite a while to go before he's the calibre of O'Driscoll in his youthful prime. It may happen... but he'll need time.

Just heard Jamie Heaslip say in an interview that Bod might stay on for another year. The interview was quite playful and I would doubt there's any truth in it since BOD is adamant he's going. But it was funny him saying it. Again, I'm sure there's no truth in it but stranger things have happened.

by GunsGerms Tue 11 Feb 2014, 3:07 pm

Sexton also mentioned today in an interview that Darcy has agreed to shave off his beard if Ireland win a slam.

“It’s a horrible looking thing.” Sexton told TodayFM today.

“I said to Darce before the New Zealand game, ‘if we win, you’re gonna shave your beard’ and he said ‘yeah’.

“So that was probably one of the biggest disappointments about not beating New Zealand, taking that horrible thing off.”

“Now we’ve got a Grand Slam on the line and, I think it was in the post match function I said: ‘for the people of Ireland we want to win the Grand Slam not just to give them something to celebrate, but to get rid of Gordon D’Arcy’s beard.’”

by Sin é Tue 11 Feb 2014, 3:15 pm

SecretFly wrote:World Cup glory sometime this Century....maybe.

The Irish don't do rushed.

But it is nice to see a few people finally recognise the difference between a bad coaching system and a good one. And how good players can crumble into themselves under a bad system and come out and shine again under a good one.

It's early days but so often Irish fans have had to defend their players against the slur that Declan Kidney was a good coach (with no structural evidence to back them up) being held back by the quality of players he has at his disposal. And we kept saying: "Oh yeah? Well it's the same players that have been dominating European club rugby for the past six or seven years. Something is wrong - and it ain't the players"

How come a Schmidt coached Leinster didn't make the knock-outs of the Heineken Cup last year? Rolling Eyes

by GunsGerms Tue 11 Feb 2014, 3:25 pm

because finalists Clermont were in our group and we had some key injuries when we played them. Munster have a losing record v Clermont as do a lot of sides.

by asoreleftshoulder Tue 11 Feb 2014, 3:27 pm

Sín é is a real contrarion,I mean he spent years defending a coach who made the team worse the longer he had them and now it looks like he's gonna spend his time attacking a coach no matter how much he improves them.Strange man.

by SecretFly Tue 11 Feb 2014, 3:29 pm

Sin é wrote:

How come a Schmidt coached Leinster didn't make the knock-outs of the Heineken Cup last year?

Taking a break from being a genius??? Have you ever tried being a genius, Sin? I have and it's very tiring. You need to pace yourself with it.

Now, on to you. I gave you homework last night and I hope you're not being bold by not doing it. Get it sorted. I'll expect a full report before the weekend. Friday at the very latest.

by **rodders** Tue 11 Feb 2014, 3:42 pm

Gretgael1 wrote:
Just heard Jamie Heaslip say in an interview that Bod might stay on for another year. The interview was quite playful and I would doubt there's any truth in it since BOD is adamant he's going. But it was funny him saying it. Again, I'm sure there's no truth in it but stranger things have happened.

I think he will, he looks in great nick - if he takes the summer off then he can easily make the RWC. Go on Brian, you know you want to .... Smile

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