Ireland World cup bid.

Don't know if this has come up before, but its the first I'm learning that Ireland are bidding for the 2023 World cup

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/government-to-consider-rugby-world-cup-bid-1.1598136

I do like that it says
The next finals will take place in England in 2015 and the one after that will be held in Japan in 2019. and he says "“It is the northern hemisphere’s turn in 2023"

Japan moved to the southern Hemp?

World cups are getting bigger and bigger events. NZ held the last one and it was though that it would prob be to big an event in the future for them to be able to host, by 2023 would it maybe be to big for Ireland?

I'd love Ireland to win it, but for the sake of rugby the US-Canada joint bid may be the better one. After hosting USA 94, nearly 20 years ago football has grown there and I think the 3rd most popular sport in the US, (there was a lot of work done after the WC to grow this). Could rugby grow as something similar if hosting the 2023 comp?

Then again Japan are hosting it in 2019 to grow the sport there and maybe it should return to an established Nation like Ireland, can't always select countries to grow the game and not play it in Countries that already love the game?

The big bit for hosting it is the decision of the GAA at its last congress to make its grounds available for the rugby world cup has given a huge boost to the bid.

Final in Croke Park, Casement Park in Belfast will be a 40,000 all seater stadium by then.

With the GAA on board there are plenty of suitable stadiums available, think Ireland could host a very successful World cup, and it would be a real boost for Rugby here.

Ah.....I see you mean bidding to host the WC.

I thought at first you meant bidding to win it in 2023. I think that's a bit of an over reaction to the Aussie game. You might still be competitive in 2015 and 2019  

Rugby will have all but disappeared in Ireland by 2023, if the PRL/LNR have their way with the European club competition. The IRFU might have the stadia courtesy of the GAA, but would the GAA fans also be willing to fill the seats?

The Great Aukster wrote:Rugby will have all but disappeared in Ireland by 2023, if the PRL/LNR have their way with the European club competition. The IRFU might have the stadia courtesy of the GAA, but would the GAA fans also be willing to fill the seats?

Why would they not fill it? If everything is setup right and the right stadiums chosen it could be a huge success, if you look at the League WC in England at the minute some of the games between small nations drew sizeable crowds

The Great Aukster wrote:Rugby will have all but disappeared in Ireland by 2023

Good riddance I say... the oval ball game has caused me no end of grief over the years, promising so much and delivering so little.....

2023 South Africa.

Personally I would like the Italians to get the world cup in 2023. Sorry Ireland.

Its Ireland's turn. Back off SA and Italy.

Your posts just hit 6666

So I won't argue with you.   

I think its more likely it will go to SA. They need a cash cow after the Japan experiment (even if it goes well, the risk of it not will push it into SA's hands).

Better for Ireland to bid for 2027 if they want to succeed.

my moneys on
Japan 2019
Italy 2023
SA 2027

Gunsgerms so it's not about trying to grow the game when it comes to the rugby world cup?

I think Ireland could easily host a RWC. With the GAA on board there would be plenty of great stadia available to allow the games to be spread across the whole island.  I'd also love to see the end of Wales getting their games in a RWC in their home ground. You could have games in Dublin, Cork, Limerick, Belfast, Galway, Killarney, Thurles, Athlone. Dublin-Limerick-Cork could even provide two grounds each.

Irish people always cheers on a lost cause, just look at the weekend, and we show up in numbers to any kind of sporting event (/drinking centric occasion).  That should easily mean some of the highest ticket sales registered for any RWC.

Flights into Belfast/Cork/Farrenfore/Dublin/Knock gives plenty of options for people flying in.  We are continuously told we have loads of hotel spaces.

And after the first weekend when we have not performed to the expectations for the Irish team, we can all pick various sides and cheer them on for the rest of the tourney.

On the whole SH v NH debate, surely the SH teams wouldn't want to give home advantage to their chief rivals.  Leave the RWC hosted in an easy going neutral country.

beshocked wrote:Gunsgerms so it's not about trying to grow the game when it comes to the rugby world cup?

Cant stand the obsession with growing the game. What a load of horse sh1t. The previous WC will have been in Japan. Plenty of growth potential there. Growing the game isn't a concern when other 6n and 4N teams put their sucessful bids in. Some teams have also hosted it twice!!! No reason why Ireland aren't given their chance.

If anything given Ireland's close connection with the US and massive Irish American community over there means massive potential to attract a huge US attendance at an Ireland staged RWC. There are also enough world class golf resorts in Ireland to accomodate them and keep them happy at the same time.

Furthermore, given the concentrated size of the country and record of first class hospitality I feel an Irish hosted games could provide a real festival atmosphere that has been lacking in other tournaments.

fa0019 wrote:I think its more likely it will go to SA. They need a cash cow after the Japan experiment (even if it goes well, the risk of it not will push it into SA's hands).

Better for Ireland to bid for 2027 if they want to succeed.

Dont see how SA would be a cash cow. The 1995 RWC wasnt a particularly well attended RWC and it would be much less likely for overseas visitors to fly to SA that Ireland. I can see Ireland attracting much bigger crowds given its proximity to the US and Europe couple that with SA's terrible security record Ireland will no doubt be a more attractive proposition.

Even the football world cup, which SA only won because they only had to bid against other African nations, failed to attract the projected 450k visitors falling short at 309k visitors. Not a lot for a footbal world cup. The Irish open in golf recently managed to attract and cater for 112,000k visitors over four days alone.

Furthermore, the prevalence of Vuvuzuelas alone will be too big a stumbling block for any SA bid.

That is of course only your opinion.

Gunsgerms you can't understand the obsession with trying to help grow the game of rugby in other countries?

Surely we want other teams to join the international rugby community?

Actually I agree with Kingshu. USA-Canada joint bid could be good too.

A rugby world cup in USA would probably attract more Americans than one in Ireland!

Unfortunately I think the old boys club will have their say - Ireland or South Africa to win the bid.

how about the USA . warm weather plenty of stadiums and they can actually have a world series there instead of amongst themselves

jimmyinthewell68 wrote:how about the USA   . warm weather plenty of stadiums and they can actually have a world series there instead of amongst themselves

  Dam i really should read others post first

GunsGerms wrote:

fa0019 wrote:I think its more likely it will go to SA. They need a cash cow after the Japan experiment (even if it goes well, the risk of it not will push it into SA's hands).

Better for Ireland to bid for 2027 if they want to succeed.

Dont see how SA would be a cash cow. The 1995 RWC wasnt a particularly well attended RWC and it would be much less likely for overseas visitors to fly to SA that Ireland. I can see Ireland attracting much bigger crowds given its proximity to the US and Europe couple that with SA's terrible security record Ireland will no doubt be a more attractive proposition.

SA has the biggest domestic rugby support per game in the world... average SR attendance was over 27,000 this year... thats just for club games. That better then England, France, NZ, Australia, anyone.

They have no infrastructure issues. They have the stadia and have proved being able to put on a good show. Security fears are blown over.... everyone goes on about it but you hardly heard any complaints over the fifa world cup etc. SA can put on a good show, the region hasn't had it by thend for 30 years, they have few costs and has the population and the number of rugby fans to make themselves a sure bet and one of the more sensible choices.

All I'm saying is that its a pretty strong case after a experimental world cup in Japan and the most likely location IMO. Other options has a experimental feel to it and therefore less strong.

They won't risk the RWC going to a development nation for a long time. They are already taking a huge gameble with Japan.

beshocked wrote:Gunsgerms you can't understand the obsession with trying to help grow the game of rugby in other countries?

Surely we want other teams to join the international rugby community?

Actually I agree with Kingshu. USA-Canada joint bid could be good too.

A rugby world cup in USA would probably attract more Americans than one in Ireland!

Unfortunately I think the old boys club will have their say - Ireland or South Africa to win the bid.

Not really. Why have a RWC in Japan and then the following RWC in the US? Makes no sense to me because maintaining the game is just as important amongst the main stakeholders rather than the folly of growing it in a country where there is no guarentee of any interest.

beshocked wrote:Gunsgerms you can't understand the obsession with trying to help grow the game of rugby in other countries?

Surely we want other teams to join the international rugby community?

Actually I agree with Kingshu. USA-Canada joint bid could be good too.

A rugby world cup in USA would probably attract more Americans than one in Ireland!

Unfortunately I think the old boys club will have their say - Ireland or South Africa to win the bid.

Yep, the US has the edge on Ireland on that one for sure.  

Growing rugby is to be applauded imo - good for everyone - certainly no need to get aggravated about it.

Ireland or SA would be fine and I'm sure would be enjoyed by most - my preference would be USA/Canada though.

Exactly with Japan winning 2019 there is noway 2023 will go to another developing nations - hence my suggestion of Italy.

fa0019 wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

fa0019 wrote:I think its more likely it will go to SA. They need a cash cow after the Japan experiment (even if it goes well, the risk of it not will push it into SA's hands).

Better for Ireland to bid for 2027 if they want to succeed.

Dont see how SA would be a cash cow. The 1995 RWC wasnt a particularly well attended RWC and it would be much less likely for overseas visitors to fly to SA that Ireland. I can see Ireland attracting much bigger crowds given its proximity to the US and Europe couple that with SA's terrible security record Ireland will no doubt be a more attractive proposition.

SA has the biggest domestic rugby support per game in the world... average SR attendance was over 27,000 this year... thats just for club games. That better then England, France, NZ, Australia, anyone.

They have no infrastructure issues. They have the stadia and have proved being able to put on a good show. Security fears are blown over.... everyone goes on about it but you hardly heard any complaints over the fifa world cup etc. SA can put on a good show, the region hasn't had it by thend for 30 years, they have few costs and has the population and the number of rugby fans to make themselves a sure bet and one of the more sensible choices.

All I'm saying is that its a pretty strong case after a experimental world cup in Japan and the most likely location IMO. Other options has a experimental feel to it and therefore less strong.

Yep - strong case there. Good time zone too from a selfish point of view.

hard to imagine the IRFU being a credible bidder on their own for RWC2023, when even NZ were unable to host it on their own in 2011. The legally binding financial guarantees that the IRB are looking for couldnt be met by NZ alone (i think that was the issue, can a NZ poster correct me if not) so they had to share.

If SA are pitching i think they are pretty much a shoe-in. It's all about the money in 2023 after a financially weaker wrc2019 (from IRB's perspective).

SA had an average of 50,000 fans per game for the FIFA world cup, over 3MM attendees...

rugby is far better supported then football in the country. The football league in SA attracts about 7,000 per game and the most about 20,000... compared to 28,000 average and the best, the Stormers at close to 40,000 in rugby.

A lot of fans came to SA but the domestic support was also huge. If anyone could match that I would be impressed.

geoff998rugby wrote:Exactly with Japan winning 2019 there is noway 2023 will go to another developing nations - hence my suggestion of Italy.

Which stadia do you think they'd use Geoff? Plenty to choose from I know.
 
Italy would be a great choice too.

Edit: Reading above - maybe not the best financially though...

SA 2023. Ireland 2027.

If Ireland can build a good case then I don't see why not anyway.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:SA 2023. Ireland 2027.

So basically keep it in the old boys club.

Surely we have to look outside the established rugby sides?

If it was a perfect world then we could look outside BeShocked. Sadly the world revolves around money and they are already taking a huge risk with Japan in 2019. They wont do that again.

Cash cows - ENG, FRA, AUS, SA
Others - NZ, WAL, IRE, SCO, ITA, JAP, ARG.

by the sounds of it, the IRB are rotating their new hosts with cash cows. The IRB is the only one funding rugby around the world... any drop means a huge reduction in rugby around the world.

yes, its all about money, but for a good reason. Its not like organisers have revenue linked bonuses!!! Well at least I would hope not

Japan does seem a risk in the context of these discussions - however is there not a chance that they'll make a great success of it?

Ireland issue is a number of the big GAA stadiums are in locations where accomodation numbers are very limited.

Also reference to stadia yet to be built.
Casement Park for example - I think it is still very debateable if this will every be completed.

stub wrote:

geoff998rugby wrote:Exactly with Japan winning 2019 there is noway 2023 will go to another developing nations - hence my suggestion of Italy.

Which stadia do you think they'd use Geoff? Plenty to choose from I know.
 
Italy would be a great choice too.

Edit: Reading above - maybe not the best financially though...

I think Italy could be a sureprise package.
Easy access for Europeans and structure already there.

I would imagine 4 basic groups based on Rome, Milan, Parma/Torino and Eastern region (Venice, Padua, Treviso, Bologna)

Heavy use of soccer grounds.
The Rome and Milan groups would be confined to one city

geoff998rugby wrote:Ireland issue is a number of the big GAA stadiums are in locations where accomodation numbers are very limited.

Also reference to stadia yet to be built.
Casement Park for example - I think it is still very debateable if this will every be completed.

They said that Portrush couldnt accomodate 100k plus people. Doesnt get much more remote than that.

Beshocked, I'm surprised that you are in such favour of developing the global rugby game, when on the club side you are behind plans that have the potential to reduce 6 strong European rugby nations into just two (France/England)....

Anyways on topic, I would love to see Ireland host the RWC, but it will never, ever happen. The government backing required, the politics involved (ie Wales needing to use the Millennium for home matches etc) and the complete buy-in needed from the GAA, mean it looks an impossibility to me,

Russia was used for the Sevens World Championship no doubt to grow the game but all they grew was a lemon and some egg blew on the IRB's face.

Much will depend on the success of Japan if the IRB is prepared to venture into new markets. If the tournament is a financial and overall success it might encourage ventures into places like Argentina. If it doesn't go well then probably 2027 will be a more traditional venue as 2023 will have already been decided. The thing is will the IRB hedge their bets that Japan is a success or will they plan for the possibility that it might be a failure in terms of crowd support?

GunsGerms wrote:

geoff998rugby wrote:Ireland issue is a number of the big GAA stadiums are in locations where accomodation numbers are very limited.

Also reference to stadia yet to be built.
Casement Park for example - I think it is still very debateable if this will every be completed.

They said that Portrush couldnt accomodate 100k plus people. Doesnt get much more remote than that.

Actually it does but leave that aside - there were some mitigating circumstances .

- The number of locals going was very high - can drive home
- Belfast, and to a lessser extend Derry provided areas with hotel space to absurb the numbers. That wont be the case around Ireland asa whole.

Clones, Castlebar for example where is everyone going to stay

geoff998rugby wrote:

stub wrote:

geoff998rugby wrote:Exactly with Japan winning 2019 there is noway 2023 will go to another developing nations - hence my suggestion of Italy.

Which stadia do you think they'd use Geoff? Plenty to choose from I know.
 
Italy would be a great choice too.

Edit: Reading above - maybe not the best financially though...

I think Italy could be a sureprise package.
Easy access for Europeans and structure already there.

I would imagine 4 basic groups based on Rome, Milan, Parma/Torino and Eastern region (Venice, Padua, Treviso, Bologna)

Heavy use of soccer grounds.
The Rome and Milan groups would be confined to one city  

Sounds great - top quality rugby along with fine food and drink and passionate locals...

As you say all very accessible and well set up for tourism.

geoff998rugby wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

geoff998rugby wrote:Ireland issue is a number of the big GAA stadiums are in locations where accomodation numbers are very limited.

Also reference to stadia yet to be built.
Casement Park for example - I think it is still very debateable if this will every be completed.

They said that Portrush couldnt accomodate 100k plus people. Doesnt get much more remote than that.

Actually it does but leave that aside - there were some mitigating circumstances .

- The number of locals going was very high - can drive home
- Belfast, and to a lessser extend Derry provided areas with hotel space to absurb the numbers. That wont be the case around Ireland asa whole.

Clones, Castlebar for example where is everyone going to stay

Geoff you forgot though this is 10 years time, there are already plans under way for hotels etc to be opened before then and Im sure it will all be factored in when choosing locations

wolfball wrote:Beshocked, I'm surprised that you are in such favour of developing the global rugby game, when on the club side you are behind plans that have the potential to reduce 6 strong European rugby nations into just two (France/England)....

Anyways on topic, I would love to see Ireland host the RWC, but it will never, ever happen. The government backing required, the politics involved (ie Wales needing to use the Millennium for home matches etc) and the complete buy-in needed from the GAA, mean it looks an impossibility to me,

Very good that Wolf!

Didn't forget just don't have talk of infrastructure development getting past the talking stage, both North and South of the border.

As an example I mentioned Casement - highly questionable it will be rebuilt.
In 10 years time we may just have got beyond the planning arguements

Remember the Maze Stadium - was going to be a brand new state of the art ground for 35,000. Where is it now?

fa0019 wrote:Cash cows - ENG, FRA, AUS, SA
Others - NZ, WAL, IRE, SCO, ITA, JAP, ARG.

by the sounds of it, the IRB are rotating their new hosts with cash cows. The IRB is the only one funding rugby around the world... any drop means a huge reduction in rugby around the world.

yes, its all about money, but for a good reason. Its not like organisers have revenue linked bonuses!!! Well at least I would hope not

Where are you getting this nonsense re "Cash Cows" from?

Any of Ireland, Scotland, Wales, England, France have the same amount of potential visitors given their proximity to eachother. Outside of the countries you claim are cash cows Wales are the only nation to host the tournament. They drew larger crowds than SA and similar crowds to Australia.

Gate receipts go to the home country anyway, broadcasting and sponsorship goes to the IRB. Therefore, local population doesnt really make a massive difference. A well organised tournament is the main factor. NZ raised more than anyone in sponsorship and TV revenue.

Re sponsorship. Given that most of the US' biggest dot com corporations have their European headquarters in Ireland sponsorship shouldnt be hard to come by I'd say.

geoff998rugby wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

geoff998rugby wrote:Ireland issue is a number of the big GAA stadiums are in locations where accomodation numbers are very limited.

Also reference to stadia yet to be built.
Casement Park for example - I think it is still very debateable if this will every be completed.

They said that Portrush couldnt accomodate 100k plus people. Doesnt get much more remote than that.

Actually it does but leave that aside - there were some mitigating circumstances .

- The number of locals going was very high - can drive home
- Belfast, and to a lessser extend Derry provided areas with hotel space to absurb the numbers. That wont be the case around Ireland asa whole.

Clones, Castlebar for example where is everyone going to stay

Obviously only low profile games will be hosted there. Most world cup group matches are played in a variety of different venues based on demand. Given Irelands size moving games around is logistically easy. From Dublin you can drive almost anywhere in Ireland in around 4 hours.

geoff998rugby wrote:Didn't forget just don't have talk of infrastructure development getting past the talking stage, both North and South of the border.

As an example I mentioned Casement - highly questionable it will be rebuilt.
In 10 years time we may just have got beyond the planning arguements

Remember the Maze Stadium - was going to be a brand new state of the art ground for 35,000. Where is it now?

Ravenhill Windsor and Casement redevelopments are the result of the Maze not going through. Casement will go ahead by hook or crook because of that, Stormont and the GAA will force that through one way or another

Infrastructure will pick up over the next few years, private investors are keen to invest in it and with Dublin wanting to come out of the bailout they will want to invest more in it over the coming years

The fact that 6 Aussies were suspended for going out and enjoying themselves during the week tells you everything you need to know about Irish hospitality. It would be the best world cup ever

8 pages of back ground reading boys!

https://www.606v2.com/t20096-ireland-to-host-rugby-world-cup-in-2023?highlight=2023

Called this last year. BOOM.