Italy v Scotland, 22 February

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Italy  v Scotland 

Stadio Olimpico, Rome
Saturday 22 February 2014
KO 14:30

Referee: Steve Walsh (ARU)
First Assistant: Jérôme Garces (FFR)
Second Assistant: Luke Pearce (RFU)
TMO: Geoff Warren (RFU)

A. Squads

1. Italy

Forwards: Martin Castrogiovanni (Toulon/FRA), Lorenzo Cittadini (Treviso), Alberto De Marchi (Treviso), Leonardo Ghiraldini (Treviso), Davide Giazzon (Zebre), Marco Bortolami (Zebre), Francesco Minto (Treviso), Quintin Geldenhuys (Zebre), Antonio Pavanello (Treviso), Robert Barbieri (Treviso), Mauro Bergamasco (Zebre), Paul Derbyshire (Treviso), Joshua Furno (Biarritz/FRA), Sergio Parisse (Stade Francais/FRA), Alessandro Zanni (Treviso)

Backs: Tobias Botes (Treviso), Edoardo Gori (Treviso), Tommaso Allan (Perpignan/FRA), Luciano Orquera (Zebre), Tommaso Benvenuti (Perpignan/FRA), Michele Campagnaro (Treviso), Gonzalo Garcia (Zebre), Alberto Sgarbi (Treviso), Mirco Bergamasco (Rovigo), Angelo Esposito (Treviso), Tommaso Iannone (Zebre), Luke McLean (Treviso), Guglielmo Palazzani (Zebre), Leonardo Sarto (Zebre)

2. Scotland

Forwards: John Beattie (Montpellier), Kelly Brown (Saracens), Geoff Cross, David Denton, Alasdair Dickinson, Ross Ford (all Edinburgh Rugby), Chris Fusaro (Glasgow Warriors), Grant Gilchrist (Edinburgh Rugby), Ryan Grant, Jonny Gray (both Glasgow Warriors), Richie Gray (Castres), Jim Hamilton (Montpellier), Robert Harley (Glasgow Warriors), Scott Lawson (Newcastle Falcons), Kieran Low (London Irish), Moray Low, Pat MacArthur (both Glasgow Warriors), Ross Rennie (Edinburgh Rugby) Alasdair Strokosch (Perpignan), Tim Swinson and Ryan Wilson (both Glasgow Warriors).

Backs: Chris Cusiter (Glasgow Warriors), Nick De Luca (Edinburgh Rugby), Alex Dunbar (Glasgow Warriors), Max Evans (Castres), Dougie Fife (Edinburgh Rugby), Stuart Hogg, Ruaridh Jackson, Sean Lamont (all Glasgow Warriors), Greig Laidlaw (Edinburgh Rugby), Sean Maitland (Glasgow Warriors), Matt Scott (Edinburgh Rugby), Tommy Seymour (Glasgow Warriors), Duncan Taylor (Saracens), Greig Tonks (Edinburgh Rugby) and Duncan Weir (Glasgow Warriors).
 
B. Previous Form

9 February 2013: Scotland 34-10 Italy

17 March 2012: Italy 13-6 Scotland

19 March 2011: Scotland 21-8 Italy

C. Teams

1. Italy

15 Luke MCLEAN (Benetton Treviso, 54 caps)
14 Angelo ESPOSITO (Benetton Treviso, 1 cap)
13 Michele CAMPAGNARO (Benetton Treviso, 4 caps)
12 Gonzalo GARCIA (Zebre Rugby, 30 caps)
11 Leonardo SARTO (Zebre Rugby, 4 caps)
10 Tommaso ALLAN (Perpignan, 5 caps)
9 Edoardo GORI (Benetton Treviso, 31 caps)

8 Sergio PARISSE (Stade Francais, 103 caps)(c)
7 Robert BARBIERI (Benetton Treviso, 32 caps)
6 Alessandro ZANNI (Benetton Treviso, 82 caps)
5 Joshua FURNO (Biarritz Olympique, 15 caps)
4 Quintin GELDENHUYS (Zebre Rugby, 43 caps)
3 Martin CASTROGIOVANNI (Toulon RC, 103 caps)
2 Leonardo GHIRALDINI (Benetton Treviso, 61 caps)
1 Alberto DE MARCHI (Benetton Treviso, 14 caps)

Substitutes:

16 Davide GIAZZON (Zebre Rugby, 17 caps)
17 Matias AGUERO (Zebre Rugby, 22 caps)
18 Lorenzo CITTADINI (Benetton Treviso, 29 caps)
19 Marco BORTOLAMI (Zebre Rugby, 101 caps)
20 Paul DERBYSHIRE (Benetton Treviso, 20 caps)
21 Tobias Weitz BOTES (Benetton Treviso, 21 caps)
22 Luciano ORQUERA (Zebre Rugby, 38 caps)
23 Tommaso IANNONE (Zebre, 8 caps)

2. Scotland

15 Stuart Hogg (Glasgow Warriors)
14 Tommy Seymour (Glasgow Warriors)
13 Alex Dunbar (Glasgow Warriors)
12 Matt Scott (Edinburgh Rugby)
11 Sean Lamont (Glasgow Warriors)
10 Duncan Weir (Glasgow Warriors)
9 Greig Laidlaw (Edinburgh Rugby) capitano

8 Johnnie Beattie (Montpellier)
7 Chris Fusaro (Glasgow Warriors)
6 Ryan Wilson (Glasgow Warriors)
5 Jim Hamilton (Montpellier)
4 Richie Gray (Castres)
3 Moray Low (Glasgow Warriors)
2 Scott Lawson (Newcastle Falcons)
1 Ryan Grant (Glasgow Warriors)

Substitutes

16 Ross Ford (Edinburgh Rugby)
17 Alasdair Dickinson (Edinburgh Rugby)
18 Geoff Cross (Edinburgh Rugby)
19 Tim Swinson (Glasgow Warriors
20 David Denton (Edinburgh Rugby)
21 Chris Cusiter (Glasgow Warriors) 

22 Duncan Taylor (Saracens)
23 Max Evans (Castres)

Captain_Sensible wrote:So, our best player from last week has been benched? Right...

Good to see Gray back, and Lawson, but Hamilton and Wilson don't deserve to be there.

Do you mean Ross Ford?
On which subject we have an MFL front row on the bench, the Italian scrum will be shaking in their collective boots.

Positives
Ford dropped.
Gray re-instated.
Beattie at eight.
Consistency in the backs.

Negatives
Ford on the bench, no MacArthur. this suggests that ford is still in their thoughts for the world cup. Yet Massimo's interview (big thanks ASBO) suggests that he sees McInally as the future. Since they can't both be starting for the MFL, why is Ford keeping his place in the 23?
Hamilton still in the side. On form Gray and Gray would be the obvious choice. I think young Jonny "puts himself about to greater effect than Nasty Jim at the moment, just ask Caahdiff.
Wilson is not a 6; Strokes, Harley and Brown are.
Consistency in the backs, is Laidlaw the new Ford? How many chances does he get?

All right lads I'm calling it. Scotland win on the cards. Two things:

1. It is very saddening that it feels like my prediction is making the outside bet. Not how it should be.
2. I actually would prefer to see Scotland lose, because if we do beat Italy I can see SRU and Johnson clinging on to it saying "we are still improving, progress has been made" just for not coming bottom of the table and feel like they've gotten away with it (sorry those who don't like the logic)

I echo practically everything everyone has said. Nothing to add except I don't think we should see Gray Jnr et al as "dropped"; I think SJ and SRU are still experimenting or something ridiculous. The only headscratcher is Brown simply because he was captain and not even allowed to play in his specialist position.

Yes just proves what a massive numpty ersehole Johnson is.    A total wenker of the highest order.

there is experimenting and then there is totally erseing about with a national team to the extent where players morale and confidence hits the skids producing back to back loses resulting in a decline in the world rankings coupled with supporters being dragged through the grinder to an extent where serious harm is being done to the future of scottish rugby.

yeah its a big sentance, but its a big point being made!

Just 3 to go. That's 240 minutes...

Then  Cotter           

     

         -         

But for 4 hours we still have    

        

I'm sorry but I might have accidentally got the SRU to play Mariah    Carey, 'Believe', at the France game...

It's in the other thread.

  

Only 1 more day of work then I'm off to Rome   

where i'll be watching the match through such strong beer goggles that i'll be convinced we battled bravely to a resounding win for a good day and a half before the painful truth hits home.

But still, Rooooooooooooooome                

Enjoy llama - Rome is my favourite city in the world!

And by saying that you'll be able to tell I've never been there to watch the rugby!

Not sure how much truth there is in this (was in the comments section in the Scotsman) but one of the posters is claiming that Brown had a falling out/fight with Rab C following the Ireland match which is why he’s now been cast out. Apparently the same thing happened with Barclay.

Again not sure if there is any actual truth in this, would be a shame if there is though.

EWT Spoons wrote:Not sure how much truth there is in this (was in the comments section in the Scotsman) but one of the posters is claiming that Brown had a falling out/fight with Rab C following the Ireland match which is why he’s now been cast out.  Apparently the same thing happened with Barclay.

Again not sure if there is any actual truth in this, would be a shame if there is though.

If true, this is very sad news indeed, and confirms that the useless Australian has man-management issues to add to his growing list of failings - the SRU must get rid of him before he does any more damage

Just need Beattie to have a go and Johnson will have the Killer Bs coming after him !

That story makes sense, though, as to why Barclay as a specialist 7 who is playing well is left out of the entire squad as well as Brown not even coming up to support the England match despite being captain the week before.

I can tell you that all lies at Johnson's door, nobody else's. Maitland and Lamont spoke out a couple of weeks ago too, didn't they? Maitland is probably feigning injury till the end of the tournament.

Why do we get stuck with these muppets? The SRU should hang their heads in shame.

Johnson was obviously useless - why was he appointed?

 's

Our most effective back row - the Killer B's - all in form and fit - yet they aren't being played. Kelly Brown played 6 then too.

Story in the Scotsman as well about the players revolting against Humphries lineout strategy.

Scotsman wrote:The Scotsman is aware that a clutch of Scotland players have challenged Johnson and forwards coach Jon Humphreys on the latter’s new lineouts. Previous coaches worked lineouts to suit Ford’s strengths, and Scotland had a secure set-piece, but Humphreys has brought in change and it has not met with unanimous support.

bodes well for the future, interim head coach who is moving to DoR who has fallen out with two key players and a forwards coach who the players don't agree with or buy into his approach.

Fantastic.

EWT Spoons wrote:Story in the Scotsman as well about the players revolting against Humphries lineout strategy.

Scotsman wrote:The Scotsman is aware that a clutch of Scotland players have challenged Johnson and forwards coach Jon Humphreys on the latter’s new lineouts. Previous coaches worked lineouts to suit Ford’s strengths, and Scotland had a secure set-piece, but Humphreys has brought in change and it has not met with unanimous support.

bodes well for the future, interim head coach who is moving to DoR who has fallen out with two key players and a forwards coach who the players don't agree with or buy into his approach.

Fantastic.

It's actually very serious to report that overtly in a paper. Must be serious. What is indeniable is that the forwards have backpedalled with the Humph. I bet Andy Robinson is wondering what the hell has happened to the pack he put together.

George Carlin wrote:

EWT Spoons wrote:Story in the Scotsman as well about the players revolting against Humphries lineout strategy.

Scotsman wrote:The Scotsman is aware that a clutch of Scotland players have challenged Johnson and forwards coach Jon Humphreys on the latter’s new lineouts. Previous coaches worked lineouts to suit Ford’s strengths, and Scotland had a secure set-piece, but Humphreys has brought in change and it has not met with unanimous support.

bodes well for the future, interim head coach who is moving to DoR who has fallen out with two key players and a forwards coach who the players don't agree with or buy into his approach.

Fantastic.

It's actually very serious to report that overtly in a paper. Must be serious. What is indeniable is that the forwards have backpedalled with the Humph. I bet Andy Robinson is wondering what the hell has happened to the pack he put together.

Yes, it really is. Players/ancillary staff leaking that kind of info should mean that Humphreys' tenure is reaching its end-game. He obviously doesn't have the respect/support of those around, so how can he continue. We could also make that argument about SJ, obviously.

George Carlin wrote: It's actually very serious to report that overtly in a paper. Must be serious. What is indeniable is that the forwards have backpedalled with the Humph. I bet Andy Robinson is wondering what the hell has happened to the pack he put together.

Aren't we all! Do we feel we're now at a stage where a win and a half decent showing against Italy wouldn't be enough to stop all this discord being swept under the carpet? By that I mean will those in the media who have spoken out against Johnson suddenly go very quiet in the aftermath of a win this weekend and would the anti Johnson momentum that seems to be building be broken?

TheMildlyFranticLlama wrote:

George Carlin wrote: It's actually very serious to report that overtly in a paper. Must be serious. What is indeniable is that the forwards have backpedalled with the Humph. I bet Andy Robinson is wondering what the hell has happened to the pack he put together.

Aren't we all! Do we feel we're now at a stage where a win and a half decent showing against Italy wouldn't be enough to stop all this discord being swept under the carpet? By that I mean will those in the media who have spoken out against Johnson suddenly go very quiet in the aftermath of a win this weekend and would the anti Johnson momentum that seems to be building be broken?

I don't think a win against Italy would break the momentum, as it will probably be a very scrappy and ugly one. I can't the see problems that have emerged within the squad being solved so quickly.

I do so hope you are right captain! The Scottish press are very easily pleased though (see somehow scraping 3rd last year despite playing some hideous rugby and that being lauded as the start of something)

EWT Spoons wrote:Not sure how much truth there is in this (was in the comments section in the Scotsman) but one of the posters is claiming that Brown had a falling out/fight with Rab C following the Ireland match which is why he’s now been cast out.  Apparently the same thing happened with Barclay.

Again not sure if there is any actual truth in this, would be a shame if there is though.

I suspected that may be the case. His exit was a bit too sharp

Concerning to hear about these off field issues. Can see Saturday going either of 2 ways -

The players pull together in adversity, put in a much improved performance and grind out a narrow win

The off field mess leads to carnage on the field - the set piece and defensive system collapse and we go on for a humiliating loss.

Unfortunately I know which is more likely.

RDW_Scotland wrote:Concerning to hear about these off field issues. Can see Saturday going either of 2 ways -

The players pull together in adversity, put in a much improved performance and grind out a narrow win

The off field mess leads to carnage on the field - the set piece and defensive system collapse and we go on for a humiliating loss.

Unfortunately I know which is more likely.

I'm going to throw my more optimistic/delusional from sleep deprivation, hat into the ring with a 3rd scenario.

The players click like they never have before, we put in a performance that will have people watching in awe, it will become part of folklore for the rest of days and pummel Italy with an incredible 80pt victory.

I’m going to the match and your first two scenarios aren’t really going to make appealing viewing, so hoping for my scenario.  Yours are more realistic granted, but I can but hope.

If its true that is interesting/sad news about Brown. He seems to be respected everywhere and there is no evidence that I am aware of that he is a hot head. For someone like that to get involved in that kind of spat is very telling.

If it was true then I hope Brown knocked the feck out of Johnson

Johnson really has no insight, does he ?

Still trying to work out the arguments for starting Ryan Wilson at 6.

Nope, still can't think of a good reason.

funnyExiledScot wrote:Still trying to work out the arguments for starting Ryan Wilson at 6.

Nope, still can't think of a good reason.

I've got it!

   is short-sighted and cannot tell who's who! He thinks Ryan Wilson with the beard is Josh Strauss. He inadvertently picked R Gray in the second row when he was trying to follow Roy Laidlaw's advice and put Denton in the second row.

Or he's just SJ.

    >      

I am simply astonished that this is happening with one of the top 10 teams of international rugby. How can a coach be so incompetent, but worse, how can the SRU appoint him in the first place? I am sure he is trying his hardest and I understand that we wanted Cotter almost 9 months ago now, but this is just disastrous. Lineen would have been a better interim coach surely?

I would love AR to come back as forwards coach, by the way. I am not shocked he stepped down from head coach but as a forwards coach I think he would be great.

Ineffable wrote:
I would love AR to come back as forwards coach, by the way. I am not shocked he stepped down from head coach but as a forwards coach I think he would be great.

I agree. Always said he was a great forwards coach!

Why the SRU never stuck Lineen in as caretaker coach I'll never know

Why the SRU have made Johnson the Director of Rugby I'll never know

Why Johnson has picked Wilson at 6 I'll never know

Why Johnson doesnt pick Brown at 6 I'll never know

Why David Denton doesnt pass or offload I'll never know

Why Daveid Denton doesnt get a hair cut I'll never know

Why Jim Hamilton continues to be picked I'll never know

Why Jim Hamilton never reads the IRB rule book I'll never know

Why Johnson will have another smartass one liner ready for the media this week with his world crashing down all around him, I'll never know.

tigertattie wrote:

Ineffable wrote:
I would love AR to come back as forwards coach, by the way. I am not shocked he stepped down from head coach but as a forwards coach I think he would be great.

I agree. Always said he was a great forwards coach!

Why the SRU never stuck Lineen in as caretaker coach I'll never know

Why the SRU have made Johnson the Director of Rugby I'll never know

Why Johnson has picked Wilson at 6 I'll never know

Why Johnson doesnt pick Brown at 6 I'll never know

Why David Denton doesnt pass or offload I'll never know

Why Daveid Denton doesnt get a hair cut I'll never know

Why Jim Hamilton continues to be picked I'll never know

Why Jim Hamilton never reads the IRB rule book I'll never know

Why David Denton asks for a 'Claire Balding' when he goes for a haircut I'll never know

I think we should be a little bit wary about taking all this speculation as read. If the players are trying to deflect the blame to the coach to defend themselves and their own performances then that is not right either. A lot of them did not turn up and did not perform. They are professional athletes and to just say they don't agree with the coaching does not wash. The coaching situation is not going to change before the end of this tournament, they know that. The same group of players and coaches have gone through last years tournament, an autumn series and a summer tour with no obvious signs of discord, so why now, when they know it is all going to change shortly anyway.

One thing you can say in SJ favour is that he has soaked up the criticism and has not blamed the players, publically at least. What is said in the dressing room should stay there. That is one of the 10 commandments of any team sport. If the players are leaking things, then that does not reflect well on them. Creating a media and public frenzy against the coaching staff and them is not going to help them in any shape or form, it will just increase the pressure and VC when he comes in will no doubt be aware of who the true team players are!

I just want to see them address the problems, go out and turn in a performance that we can be proud of and hopefully win the match. In the short term though I would settle for a performance.

When that many players play badly, the responsibility is that of the coach, as his job is to manage them and their morale, select them and train them. It is far more likely that SJ is abysmal at his job, given past evidence of all his other jobs too, than lots of players simultaneously becoming poor. And if the latter is the case, it's still SJ's job to have a gameplan (I see no evidence of one) and to not pick the players playing worst. He makes Robinson look like a fantastic head coach. Having seen Robsinson flounder for England, that is impressive

I disagree with you there Gee. It's quite possible that the players have been sitting on this for over a year now, unhappy with how things are going but willing to give it a go last 6N and in the summer and autumn. But enough has been enough - I mean come on, their own captain has been seemingly dismissed and it's not like Kelly Brown has a history of defecting from teams; he's the hardest worker on the pitch often.

I think the players might indeed get something out of it. Johnson might be dismissed, as well as the forwards coach. I think you can also feel it in the air when talking to people if they are so disgruntled about a set up - they'll probably be mentioning it to the people closest in their life and who knows who might pass it on as a bit of interesting gossip and it could fall into the wrong hands. Nobody has actually come out and said anything explicit player wise.

Yes they are professional sportsmen but when something does not jibe well it is almost impossible to shake that off completely as if nothing is happening. Then you have the problem that the opposing team has presumably been coached at least moderately well and so have a gameplan - at international standard not having a gameplan at all that you can play to is going to make everyone look like schoolboys. Running 15 people on a pitch at the same time takes more than just heart.

That's just to counter your POV, though I do think the answer is somewhere in the middle. Both need to do better: players and coaches.

I know that some players have been poor, but to call professional rugby players like Scott "naive" is   

SJ referred to the team as 'naive' and so Scott is included. He has a law degree from Edinburgh and I would assume is far brighter than SJ and will achieve higher things after rugby. I doubt he would really have wanted to play given his lack of club game time, so to call him naive is inappropriate. It's YOU SJ that is naive for picking the wrong players and expecting miracles.

Then take Ryan Wilson. For Glasgow at 8 on form he is a good talent. But he hardly plays 6 and has been injured. To start vs Ireland and England is unfair on him. And even Ford. He'll be trying his best but what can you do if you are in a trough of form and are badly coached.

--

I posit that Scott Johnston is simply orchestrating just enough failure so that he can, statistically, enhance his position as Director of Rugby. Put it this way.

1. If you were a permanent coach such as Lancaster or Schmidt, you would want the best team you could field with an eye glancing at the future. You slowly introduce Luke Marshall but you still play the "arguably better player - BOD" - as you want to win the competition. It's like a white sauce. You don't add all the milk at once, but in stages. Note the difference between development tours (to Argentina) and serious competition, the 6N.

2. If you are an interim coach, you don't want to meddle too much. You just want to keep the ship sailing and play what you know. I'm thinking the Killer B's at least in the 23. You play R Gray and recognise that Hamilton is off so play J Gray. In the forwards, you know Ford is off form so you play MacArthur or Hall. You don't make massive changes. You go with experience firstly and young talent when and where required (in the 6N).

I cannot figure out a situation where in a big competition you choose to experiment for a competition far down the line. We are NEVER going to win the world cup but could potentially win the 6N.

The only logical explanation is that he wants failure so that he looks good in his new post. He isn't Scottish so deep down I don't think he'll care too much about the current situation.

Also note how he is taking out any potential opposition threats (like a dictator).

He plays a Newcastle Hooker, Castres/ex-GLA SR and Montpellier SR. Previously, a malfunctioning Edinburgh HK, Glasgow SR and Montpellier SR. You'd think it might be sensible to play a GLAhk>GLAsr+GLA/?sr combo so that if the lineout broke you could revert to Glasgow calls with Wilson at 6. You have the resources and talent - MacArthur, J Gray/Swinson. But they aren't picked, I propose, because SJ wants the lineout to have every chance of malfunctioning. Take the scrum. Play a hooker who everyone now knows will not hook and offers little Hibbard-like threat re power. You BENCH him - so no threat - and put in a player you originally hadn't included in your squad. Now if you know your scrum will be under the coche re power, you pick a heavy pack to compensate when the hooker hooks. I'm thinking Denton, Beattie and Strokosch or Brown. Also put in R Gray. Yet he picks lightweight Fusaro and Swinson. Oh, and you take out Denton why?

Have a think about it and make your own conclusions. SJ wants the team to have every chance of tripping up.

Oh yeah, doesn't it seem convenient that you say you'll only pick Brown at 7 to give a reason for dropping him - blooding in a young openside. He had it scripted. Drop the captain to lower morale.

Lets be realistic about it, nothing is going to change on the coaching front for the rest of this tournament and nor should it. Any changes to be made should be done once Cotter is in post and if he can't work with Humphries, or disagrees totally with his strategies, then that is the time for him to go.

You have to ask the question though why has Humphries suddenly become a bad coach. He looked like a good appointment, a coach with a good CV and track record. Coaching Scotland it would seem is proving to be a stain on many coaches careers.

Possibly having SJ as a head coach is a bigger stain. It's not like he was even a poor coach at Ospreys or Wales either is it?

Nematode wrote:I know that some players have been poor, but to call professional rugby players like Scott "naive" is   

SJ referred to the team as 'naive' and so Scott is included. He has a law degree from Edinburgh and I would assume is far brighter than SJ and will achieve higher things after rugby. I doubt he would really have wanted to play given his lack of club game time, so to call him naive is inappropriate. It's YOU SJ that is naive for picking the wrong players and expecting miracles.

Then take Ryan Wilson. For Glasgow at 8 on form he is a good talent. But he hardly plays 6 and has been injured. To start vs Ireland and England is unfair on him. And even Ford. He'll be trying his best but what can you do if you are in a trough of form and are badly coached.

--

I posit that Scott Johnston is simply orchestrating just enough failure so that he can, statistically, enhance his position as Director of Rugby. Put it this way.

1. If you were a permanent coach such as Lancaster or Schmidt, you would want the best team you could field with an eye glancing at the future. You slowly introduce Luke Marshall but you still play the "arguably better player - BOD" - as you want to win the competition. It's like a white sauce. You don't add all the milk at once, but in stages. Note the difference between development tours (to Argentina) and serious competition, the 6N.

2. If you are an interim coach, you don't want to meddle too much. You just want to keep the ship sailing and play what you know. I'm thinking the Killer B's at least in the 23. You play R Gray and recognise that Hamilton is off so play J Gray. In the forwards, you know Ford is off form so you play MacArthur or Hall. You don't make massive changes. You go with experience firstly and young talent when and where required (in the 6N).

I cannot figure out a situation where in a big competition you choose to experiment for a competition far down the line. We are NEVER going to win the world cup but could potentially win the 6N.

The only logical explanation is that he wants failure so that he looks good in his new post. He isn't Scottish so deep down I don't think he'll care too much about the current situation.

Also note how he is taking out any potential opposition threats (like a dictator).

He plays a Newcastle Hooker, Castres/ex-GLA SR and Montpellier SR. Previously, a malfunctioning Edinburgh HK, Glasgow SR and Montpellier SR. You'd think it might be sensible to play a GLAhk>GLAsr+GLA/?sr combo so that if the lineout broke you could revert to Glasgow calls with Wilson at 6. You have the resources and talent - MacArthur, J Gray/Swinson. But they aren't picked, I propose, because SJ wants the lineout to have every chance of malfunctioning. Take the scrum. Play a hooker who everyone now knows will not hook and offers little Hibbard-like threat re power. You BENCH him - so no threat - and put in a player you originally hadn't included in your squad. Now if you know your scrum will be under the coche re power, you pick a heavy pack to compensate when the hooker hooks. I'm thinking Denton, Beattie and Strokosch or Brown. Also put in R Gray. Yet he picks lightweight Fusaro and Swinson. Oh, and you take out Denton why?

Have a think about it and make your own conclusions. SJ wants the team to have every chance of tripping up.

Oh yeah, doesn't it seem convenient that you say you'll only pick Brown at 7 to give a reason for dropping him - blooding in a young openside. He had it scripted. Drop the captain to lower morale.

I have to say that is just deluded nonsense. I don't believe for a minute that SJ is deliberately manipulating the team to play badly. What purpose would that serve, mud sticks at the end of the day and a disastrous season this year is going to come back to haunt him, either in this job or his next.

I can accept that he is making picks for the future, when we would most like to be winning now. It is painful, but I almost understand the logic behind it. We are years behind other countries in the way we play international rugby and need to catch up fast or else the next world cup could be very painful indeed. That does not excuse the two performances this year so far though, which after the first 40 mins in Dublin have been unacceptable in any shape or form.

I can't genuinely believe that either he or any of the players are happy with that and can only believe that we will see a reaction this weekend.

BigGee wrote:Lets be realistic about it, nothing is going to change on the coaching front for the rest of this tournament and nor should it. Any changes to be made should be done once Cotter is in post and if he can't work with Humphries, or disagrees totally with his strategies, then that is the time for him to go.

You have to ask the question though why has Humphries suddenly become a bad coach. He looked like a good appointment, a coach with a good CV and track record. Coaching Scotland it would seem is proving to be a stain on many coaches careers.

Two workable sides in Glasgow and Edinburgh would almost make such a stain inevitable.  

Sometimes maybe the stark truth is that fans and the media in general expect too much (and especially perhaps too much consistency) from so little to work with.  
Any International side would struggle to compete with only two genuine national club sides to call on for the bulk of their players.  England have 12, France have 14, Ireland and Wales have 4 apiece.  But even if these Nations don't use players from all the sides at their disposal, having that larger group to choose from allows more of a 'cream' type player to be identified and chosen.

But having said all that - I'd despise a well paid National coach of mine smiling and almost sneering through games he is in charge of.  So, Scotland always have it tough getting, keeping and sustaining the quality of International standard players - but it does still require a coach who knows what he is doing to get the best out of them.  This present coach? - Hmmmm

Yeah Nematode I think you are giving SJ way too much credit. He's just not very good is a better posit than him being a mastermind

Albeit a stupid mastermind because, as Gee says, mud sticks so it would be a very dumb thing to do. Hmm maybe it is likely then.

Maybe Nematode is right! Maybe he is trying to sabotage the team! maybe SJ is actually still in the employ of the WRU and he been placed in Scotland to ensure that Wales do not become the worst rugby nation in the UK (inc Ireland)

Just throwing it out there.

SJ calls the shots. Has good growth rates in performance as Director of Rugby to take to a backroom role in the future - as he moves on - where his 6N will be forgotten.

Yes it is far-fetched but you've got to wonder.

I think the fact that the Director of Rugby post, at >120 K per annum?, is in the bag is probably a relevant factor. He is genuinely feeling no pressure as the outcome of this tourney doesnt matter one brass farthing to him. Like a lot of poor coaches he doesnt have the back bone to accept when things go wrong with selection and tactics that it is any way his fault. Our lineout and scrum were a shambles in Dublin. Anyone with half an ounce of rugby wit could see that a huge amount, but not all, of the responsibility lay with Ford's appalling form. SJ's reaction? blame the openside and captain and drop him from the squad! Also drop the repalcement hooker, MacArthur who had a decent game in the tight when he came on.

He still has Ford on the bench, after another shocking performance against England, so even if we are in the game in the last quarter when he comes on the lineout and scrum will malfunction once again.

It is totally pig headed insanity and i just am so glad that we "only" have three more car crash  games under SJ to go before he finally moves up stairs to mastermind the recovery of scottish rugby from the shambles he has left it in!

Right, tactics wise I think we've got to look to the game against Italy at Murrayfield last year. We played a high tempo, attacking game and blew them off the park. Now, this has never, ever happened away to Italy, but we're not going to win this if we make it an arm wrestle. We have a very athletic back row and Richie Gray is practically another back row too - it's time to use them.

That and as few set pieces as humanly possible.

fast offloading game with simple pop passes is they way we need to approach this.

Don't kick the ball as that will result in lineouts   

When did we last see Scotland take a quick tap?

Forecast for Saturday is for perfect rugby conditions - let's play some god dam rugby.

I'd rather lose 30-29 than 10-9.

Time to focus on saturdays game now. The team is what it is. Lets hope they put in a performance and win the game. i think and hope that they will play better on a fast track and that is what we will have.

Gatland seems to have no problem telling his players that they are playing for their international futures. I hope a few of ours are under no similar illusions!

I just hope that all the critiscism brings them together and they can really play for the shirt and for each other. We have had poor games and tournaments before (more than once!) but we have always managed a performance somewhere along the line. Win this game and the welsh lose and then we still have something to play for in this 6 nations.

RDW_Scotland wrote:Right, tactics wise I think we've got to look to the game against Italy at Murrayfield last year.  We played a high tempo, attacking game and blew them off the park.  Now, this has never, ever happened away to Italy, but we're not going to win this if we make it an arm wrestle.  We have a very athletic back row and Richie Gray is practically another back row too - it's time to use them.

That and as few set pieces as humanly possible.

I wouldn't say we "blew them off the park" last year. We were actually dominated in terms of territory and certainly possession. What I liked about last year was that we were prepared to attack from anywhere on the park, recognising that good turnover ball is the key to a counter atacking game. Italy had more ball, but we had better ball. That came down to the players taking risks and being positive. Laidlaw and Weir must not kick the ball away at every opportunity. The Italians are solid, but they don't cope well when their defence isn't properly set. The don't scramble well, and whilst McLean is a good footballer, he isn't particularly quick. We have to target that, keep the ball in hand and be bold.