Sturm or Golovkin for Martin Murray

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According to Hatton Promotions, there are two world title offers on the table for St. Helens middleweight Martin Murray - a rematch with Felix Sturm in Germany or a Monte Carlo meet-up with fearsome Kazakh puncher Gennady Golovkin.

Hatton Promotions claims that Murray would earn a career best payday against Golovkin, and says that time is running out for him to make a decision.

Since his controversial points loss to Sergio Martinez in April last year, Murray has appeared on a Matchroom Promotions bill in December - a laboured eight round points win over Belarusian Sergey Khomitsky at the ExCel Arena, London.

In 2012, a fight with Julio Cesar Chavez Jnr in the US was scuppered due to problems obtaining a visa.

They will have to pay him big money to face Golovkin anyway. He wont take that fight for the same kind of money he would other challengers. Theres always the chance a guy like Alvarez or even Chavez could offer him another big payday which would be hard to refuse afterwards also.

Chavez beats Vera...GGG v Chavez would be a big fight...

Chavez has a big following..

Im sure they will line up Chavez for a WBC title fight after Vera. He is well connected there.

Would like to see GGG fight an ex world champ at least as well as a current one.

Funny how Kovalev can get bankrolled by HBO to fight a title holder yet GGG can't. But hey, if he's happy to fight the likes of Adama then good luck to him

Kovalevs opposition has been similar to Golovkins. Golovkin is clearly trying to make fights happen but nobody wants to know. Martinez can make make easier money elsewhere.

He has fought a title holder. Golovkin has been a champ for years and hasn't even fought an ex champ.

His team saying they have been trying to sign a big opponent is as bout as authentic as the other fighter saying the offers they make aren't worth it.

Pirog hasn't fought in a while and had to give up his belt . I'm sure if he was given the right contract he would sign. After all he went to Daniel Jacobs back yard and did a number on him when he wasn't supposed too. Shows he's far from afraid of taking a risk.

They called out Andy Lee as soon as the Adama fight was over. Then when Martinez v Cotto was reportly days away from being signed..... Surprise surprise they started calling out Martinez, even though everyone knows the Cotto fight is more or less happening.

Maybe Martinez, Quillan won't fight him.... But there are better fighters than Lee and Adama out there. He's getting easy defence after easy defence. It would be different if this was only the third or fourth time. But this is his 11th championship fight and he has fought failed contenders the whole time. There have been more dangerous fighters than him in boxing and they always got ex or current champs to face them when the price was right. Not sold on him at all. Good fighter but nowhere near the machine he is made out to be

He has called Martinez out for ages. Martinez own promoter is on record saying they werent interested in the fight for the moment.

Pirog? Hes the guy that was signed to fight Golovkin and pulled out of the fight and hasnt been heard of since.

He made Geale an offer which Geale admitted he wouldnt accept due to Aussie TV.

He has offered Murray a career high payday (more than Martinez, Chavez and Sturm).

Murray, Sturm, Geale, Macklin all of these guys are in the same ball park and they all get wiped out. The only fight that should be happening is Golovkin v Martinez.

Martinez has opted for the money fight because they know as well as anyone that his time is up and Golovkin takes care of him. Its about retirement planning for Martinez now.

Reborn-DeeMcK-Reborn wrote:He has fought a title holder. Golovkin has been a champ for years and hasn't even fought an ex champ.

His team saying they have been trying to sign a big opponent is as bout as authentic as the other fighter saying the offers they make aren't worth it.

Pirog hasn't fought in a while and had to give up his belt . I'm sure if he was given the right contract he would sign. After all he went to Daniel Jacobs back yard and did a number on him when he wasn't supposed too. Shows he's far from afraid of taking a risk.

They called out Andy Lee as soon as the Adama fight was over. Then when Martinez v Cotto was reportly days away from being signed..... Surprise surprise they started calling out Martinez, even though everyone knows the Cotto fight is more or less happening.

Maybe Martinez, Quillan won't fight him.... But there are better fighters than Lee and Adama out there. He's getting easy defence after easy defence. It would be different if this was only the third or fourth time. But this is his 11th championship fight and he has fought failed contenders the whole time. There have been more dangerous fighters than him in boxing and they always got ex or current champs to face them when the price was right. Not sold on him at all. Good fighter but nowhere near the machine he is made out to be

  


I do think he is a very good fighter though if still unproven.

Reborn-DeeMcK-Reborn wrote:He has fought a title holder. Golovkin has been a champ for years and hasn't even fought an ex champ.

His team saying they have been trying to sign a big opponent is as bout as authentic as the other fighter saying the offers they make aren't worth it.

Pirog hasn't fought in a while and had to give up his belt . I'm sure if he was given the right contract he would sign. After all he went to Daniel Jacobs back yard and did a number on him when he wasn't supposed too. Shows he's far from afraid of taking a risk.

They called out Andy Lee as soon as the Adama fight was over. Then when Martinez v Cotto was reportly days away from being signed..... Surprise surprise they started calling out Martinez, even though everyone knows the Cotto fight is more or less happening.

Maybe Martinez, Quillan won't fight him.... But there are better fighters than Lee and Adama out there. He's getting easy defence after easy defence. It would be different if this was only the third or fourth time. But this is his 11th championship fight and he has fought failed contenders the whole time. There have been more dangerous fighters than him in boxing and they always got ex or current champs to face them when the price was right. Not sold on him at all. Good fighter but nowhere near the machine he is made out to be

Forget the defence business - Martinez is the champ: GGG and the others are mere contenders. HBO are demanding he face opponents that are known in the US. He was given three: Kirkland, Geale and Lee and only Lee could make the date (Kirkland priced himself out). Sturm and Martinez won't fight him; Quillin can't and Murray has been offered a career high payday but hasn't signed. Geale - hardy guy that he is - has issued a press statement saying he'll take the fight (after Lee).

Pirog isn't well known and the only ex-champs knocking about are Pavlik and Taylor (both of whom are spent forces). Quillin is having to face Curtis Stevens and Danny Jacobs - so thin are the ranks at 160.

Lee, Geale, Murray and Martinez would do fine before he takes the Ward fight. At least he's staying active and open to fighting any middleweight that wants it. Gotta love that attitude. Ward's the same (surprised he's taken flak on here).

You know you are screwed when you are getting stick for not facing boxers that have pulled out of fights with you and havent fought in two years.

Maybe he should call out Winky Wright or Oscar de la Hoya.

hazharrison wrote:

Reborn-DeeMcK-Reborn wrote:He has fought a title holder. Golovkin has been a champ for years and hasn't even fought an ex champ.

His team saying they have been trying to sign a big opponent is as bout as authentic as the other fighter saying the offers they make aren't worth it.

Pirog hasn't fought in a while and had to give up his belt . I'm sure if he was given the right contract he would sign. After all he went to Daniel Jacobs back yard and did a number on him when he wasn't supposed too. Shows he's far from afraid of taking a risk.

They called out Andy Lee as soon as the Adama fight was over. Then when Martinez v Cotto was reportly days away from being signed..... Surprise surprise they started calling out Martinez, even though everyone knows the Cotto fight is more or less happening.

Maybe Martinez, Quillan won't fight him.... But there are better fighters than Lee and Adama out there. He's getting easy defence after easy defence. It would be different if this was only the third or fourth time. But this is his 11th championship fight and he has fought failed contenders the whole time. There have been more dangerous fighters than him in boxing and they always got ex or current champs to face them when the price was right. Not sold on him at all. Good fighter but nowhere near the machine he is made out to be

Forget the defence business - Martinez is the champ: GGG and the others are mere contenders. HBO are demanding he face opponents that are known in the US. He was given three: Kirkland, Geale and Lee and only Lee could make the date (Kirkland priced himself out). Sturm and Martinez won't fight him; Quillin can't and Murray has been offered a career high payday but hasn't signed. Geale - hardy guy that he is - has issued a press statement saying he'll take the fight (after Lee).

Pirog isn't well known and the only ex-champs knocking about are Pavlik and Taylor (both of whom are spent forces). Quillin is having to face Curtis Stevens and Danny Jacobs - so thin are the ranks at 160.

Lee, Geale, Murray and Martinez would do fine before he takes the Ward fight. At least he's staying active and open to fighting any middleweight that wants it. Gotta love that attitude. Ward's the same (surprised he's taken flak on here).

The highlighted fighters are not PPV standard opponents.  They also reflect how poor the division is. By the time GGG fights all these he'll be at least 12-18 months down the road.  The backlash against his lack of decent opposition is already well established on the boxing boards.  He'll be a pariah if he continues to be in dross fights.

There is only one fighter that is of any interest at middleweight and he's a crocked old man.  Why not widen his horizons and fight a couple of decent opponents before taking on Martinez.

Who? Who has ever moved up a weight and then successfully moved back down?

Golovkin is a throwback, exciting and one of boxing's best offensive fighters. He's willing to face anyone and still he gets stick.

No wonder boxing's f£&@ed....

Manny stepped up to welter to fight Oscar and then back down to LWW to fight Hatton.

The truth lies in the middle somewhere. Golovkin is not ducking or avoiding fighters but he is also not extending himself very much.

Strongback wrote:Manny stepped up to welter to fight Oscar and then back down to LWW to fight Hatton.

The truth lies in the middle somewhere. Golovkin is not ducking or avoiding fighters but he is also not extending himself very much.

He weighed 142 for Oscar. Fighters that go up a full weight rarely come back down with much success. He's a middleweight who wants to be champion. He hasn't been given the opportunity to extend himself but it's all moot: he'll beat them all at 160 in due course.

Murray should really step forward for his own sake. He can't get into the states so a title shot in Monte Carlo for a bucket of cash should be snapped up, he's big, his tight defence should limit the possibility of a KO, he'd have a real chance.

To be honest even though I'm criticizing Golovkin's oppo I think he would murder Murray and possibly even hand him his first stoppage.

hazharrison wrote:

Strongback wrote:Manny stepped up to welter to fight Oscar and then back down to LWW to fight Hatton.

The truth lies in the middle somewhere. Golovkin is not ducking or avoiding fighters but he is also not extending himself very much.

He weighed 142 for Oscar. Fighters that go up a full weight rarely come back down with much success. He's a middleweight who wants to be champion. He hasn't been given the opportunity to extend himself but it's all moot: he'll beat them all at 160 in due course.

Its true that fighters don't tend to come down in weight successfully haz, but there's not much in the way of a physical reason for it. The primary reason it doesn't happen is that on most occasions they've gone up in weight in the first place because they're struggling to make their existing one. If he makes middle easily, I don't see why he can't go up if necessary for a big fight and come down afterwards. Obviously it depends on how he goes about the bulking process, but it could be that the issue might be more the disadvantage he is at at the higher weight, than when he returns to middle.

Plenty of guys historically fight at a higher weight in none title fights, and guys like bob foster have eaten a few pies to try for the heavyweight crown then dropped down and been successful at their natural weight. Leonard fought kalule as a fully fledged light mid and dropped back to welter to beat hearns.

Re GGG, I'm not saying he has to do it but it's not an outrageous request if he can't find a decent opponent at middle. My fear (because I want to see him in interesting fights) is that it takes him 2 years to clean up a lousy division and he's 33/34  by the time he looks up...  Firstly, he may be past his peak, secondly the landscape at super/light heavy will have changed. Of course, their May be some live middleweight challengers on the scene by then... Ultimately, from a fans perspective (and I accept that's all it is) the more mouth watering fights are at higher weights.

milkyboy wrote:

hazharrison wrote:

Strongback wrote:Manny stepped up to welter to fight Oscar and then back down to LWW to fight Hatton.

The truth lies in the middle somewhere. Golovkin is not ducking or avoiding fighters but he is also not extending himself very much.

He weighed 142 for Oscar. Fighters that go up a full weight rarely come back down with much success. He's a middleweight who wants to be champion. He hasn't been given the opportunity to extend himself but it's all moot: he'll beat them all at 160 in due course.

Its true that fighters don't tend to come down in weight successfully haz, but there's not much in the way of a physical reason for it. The primary reason it doesn't happen is that on most occasions they've gone up in weight in the first place because they're struggling to make their existing one. If he makes middle easily, I don't see why he can't go up if necessary for a big fight and come down afterwards. Obviously it depends on how he goes about the bulking process, but it could be that the issue might be more the disadvantage he is at at the higher weight, than when he returns to middle.

Plenty of guys historically fight at a higher weight in none title fights, and guys like bob foster have eaten a few pies to try for the heavyweight crown then dropped down and been successful at their natural weight. Leonard fought kalule as a fully fledged light mid and dropped back to welter to beat hearns.

Re GGG, I'm not saying he has to do it but it's not an outrageous request if he can't find a decent opponent at middle. My fear (because I want to see him in interesting fights) is that it takes him 2 years to clean up a lousy division and he's 33/34  by the time he looks up...  Firstly, he may be past his peak, secondly the landscape at super/light heavy will have changed. Of course, their May be some live middleweight challengers on the scene by then... Ultimately, from a fans perspective (and I accept that's all it is) the more mouth watering fights are at higher weights.

 
The same is true of Ward. There's nothing left for him at 168 but plenty at 175.
 
Some fighters are only cut out for one weight (despite Ward's assertions he'd like to campaign at heavyweight one day) and I'm cool with that. I don't agree with them being criticised because they want to fight at their optimum poundage. There's a modern preoccupation with fighters becoming multi-weight champions which doesn't do much for me; often it's nothing more than an excuse to pick up title belts against the easiest guy who holds one (at the higher weight).
 
There's nothing wrong with Golovkin wanting to become one of the great middleweights -- same deal with Ward. If it takes a couple of years to clean out the division then so be it. I'd rather see him do that than see him winning alphabelts against the likes of Bika and Shumenov and then calling himself a three-weight world champion.
 
The Ward fight would ultimately be far bigger with two legit world champions meeting head on.

Don't disagree with the above haz, you'll note I wasn't criticising him for it.

But ultimately, I'm a fan and I want to see the best fighters fight each other.

Would it not frustrate you to see ggg clean out a dreadful middleweight division and then retire without fighting someone of note?

If the alternative means putting himself at a bit of a size disadvantage because the more exciting fights are above his weight, personally I'd rather he took that path.

Strongback wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Kovalev punches too hard...

No way a good but not elusive GGG beats him..

Kovalev has power but isn't all that, he's crude and has a suspect tank.

Read up on GGG's sparring sessions with Kovalev.

Just read that Golovkin dropped Kovalev in sparring with a body shot and sent him packing!

Page dropped Tyson in sparring

Maybe not the best example truss... Wasn't that before the douglas fight.

Froch dropped groves in sparring. That was one that everyone was using as a reason froch would walk through him.

Ggg and kovalev were in the same gym for about a year and a half, the comments about kovalev are coming from ggg's trainer and kovalev's now ex trainer, so should be taken in context. Who knows what both were working on at the time? What stage their respective training was at? Kovalev was apparently changing his style under Sanchez. Etc etc.

Kovalev has talked up ggg's power, from his own personal experience, so no doubt its there. Everything else needs to be taken in context. There's a sparring partner of ggg's who claims to have dropped him. Guess that makes him chinny!

I get the feeling GGG moving up would be the middleweights' excuse not to fight him. Claim he's a super middle now. Anyway he's yet to even become middleweight champion, never mind really establish himself which most believe he is capable of.

Ward's cleaned out his division and still shows no sign of moving even though the best fights for him are at 175. Also take into account that GGG is a fairly small middle whereas Ward's among the biggest super middles and there are far more reasons for Ward to move up than Golovkin. Golovkin's just suffering popular fighter backlash. They all get it.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Page dropped Tyson in sparring

That looked like a partied out fighter off balance. Kovalev himself said this was a solar plexus punch that killed him. Get your point but slightly different. That doesn't mean he'd do it again in the pros mind - I rate Kovalev. Guys got bricks in his gloves.

According to Sanchez the bricks were in kovalev's shorts when he sparred with 3G.

An apparently brutal puncher in sparring against light heavyweights but was unable to put a dent in Rosado when they fought who was a light middleweight. Sparring is just that, I take very little notice of all the stories we hear about who's dropped who or who's hurt who, if it doesn't translate to in ring performance who cares. 

Golovkin is obviously a heavy hitter but i'd say he's more hurtful than devastating, you can point to Macklin or Ishida but then you could point to Williams for Martinez. If he moves up I don't necessarily see his power moving up with him, if you can't drop Rosado then you're not dropping the likes of Froch, Kessler or Abraham any time soon.