Ireland vs Italy, 8th March

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IRELAND VS ITALY

Date: Saturday, March 8
Kick-off: 14:30 GMT
Venue: Aviva Stadium, Dublin
Referee: Nigel Owens (Wales)
Assistant referees: Pascal Gauzère (France), Greg Garner (England)
Television match official: Geoff Warren (England)
Assessor: Andrew Cole (Australia)

IRELAND TEAM wrote:15 Rob Kearney, 14 Andrew Trimble, 13 Brian O'Driscoll, 12 Gordon D'Arcy, 11 Dave Kearney, 10 Jonathan Sexton, 9 Conor Murray, 8 Jamie Heaslip, 7 Chris Henry, 6 Iain Henderson, 5 Paul O'Connell (c), 4 Devin Toner, 3 Mike Ross, 2 Rory Best, 1 Cian Healy.

16 Sean Cronin, 17 Jack McGrath, 18 Martin Moore, 19 Rhys Ruddock, 20 Jordi Murphy, 21 Eoin Reddan, 22 Paddy Jackson, 23 Fergus McFadden.

ITALY TEAM wrote:15 Luke McLean, 14 Angelo Esposito, 13 Michele Campagnaro, 12 Gonzalo Garcia, 11 Leonardo Sarto, 10 Luciano Orquera, 9 Tito Tebaldi, 8 Robert Barbieri, 7 Paul Derbyshire, 6 Joshua Furno, 5 Marco Bortolami (c), 4 Quentin Geldenhuys, 3 Martin Castrogiovanni, 2 Leonardo Ghiraldini, 1 Alberto de Marchi

16 David Giazzon, 17 Michele Rizzo, 18 Lorenzo Cittadini, 19 Antonio Pavanello, 20 Manoa Vosawai, 21 Edoardo Gori, 22 Tommaso Allan, 23 Andrea Masi

If we win this game by a larger margin than the winners of the other two games achieve then it's very, very simple- we set up a Cup Final for ourselves in Paris to win the Championship. We do already have the best points difference but we have a chance to settle the issue of points difference beyond all doubt and make this a very simple equation. An Ireland win in Paris, and we are champions. We are out to score and Joe Schmidt has named his strongest available team.

Italy have chosen to rotate their squad with half an eye on targeting the final game against England, Sergio Parisse is rested along with the first choice halfbacks in a team with a more experimental look. Tito Tebaldi and Andrea Masi make long awaited returns to the Italian match day squad and Luciano Orquera will hope to recapture the form which saw him perform so well in some famous Italian victories in the 2013 campaign.

There'll be plenty of applause for a retiring legend... but no room for sentiment. A ruthless and clinical performance is required.

I have no idea how anyone could give Heaslip 5/10.

Heaslip, O'Connell and Toner were the stand out forwards on the pitch for me... Sexton, BOD and Trimble the stand out backs. Thats easily Toners best game in an Ireland jersey.

Thats not to say the likes of Henry, Best, Healy and D'Arcy weren't excellent as well- I was also very impressed with Paddy Jackson and Fergus McFadden when they came on.

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:

profitius wrote:My ratings (I've replaced Murray with Reddan).

1 Sackable performance
2 Disgraced the jersey
3 Had a bad game
4 Below par
5 Average
6 Solid
7 Good game with a few sparkles
8 Excellent performance
9 Outstanding performance
10 Legendary performance

15 Rob Kearney,  5
14 Andrew Trimble,  7
13 Brian O'Driscoll,  9
12 Gordon D'Arcy,    5
11 Dave Kearney,    4
10 Jonathan Sexton, 7
9 Eoin Reddan,    7
8 Jamie Heaslip,  5
7 Chris Henry,     7
6 Iain Henderson,  6
5 Paul O'Connell (c), 7
4 Devin Toner,  7
3 Mike Ross,  7
2 Rory Best,  7
1 Cian Healy. 7

Jamie Heaslip- by far the best carrier of the ball in the forwards with 56 metres.  Second highest tackle count in the side.  5 out of 10?  
Rob Kearney- by far the best carrier of the ball in the entire side with 135 metres.  Joint highest amount of clean breaks.  Most defenders beaten.  Ok, bad missed tackle.  But 5 out of 10?  

At least try and have a grip on reality.  Even one hand.  Even a pinky.  I'll even give you a pinky swear as a reward.  

Even Sin would do better than this.  That is how far you have fallen with this rating.  Hang your head in shame and then come in for a hug.  I forgive you this time.  

See folks this is a good example of someone forming a different reality using stats. What I keep telling people is you need to keep things in context especially stats.

For starters Kearney is a fullback and ran back with the ball on numerous occasions. Is that anything special?? He cost Ireland a try with yet another missed tackle so theres your point deducted.

Heaslip too was a bit meh. Got turned over a few times fairly easily. I didn;t see him make any great carry in the tight so I presume they were easy meters.

Notch wrote:I have no idea how anyone could give Heaslip 5/10.

Heaslip, O'Connell and Toner were the stand out forwards on the pitch for me... Sexton, BOD and Trimble the stand out backs. Thats easily Toners best game in an Ireland jersey.

Thats not to say the likes of Henry, Best, Healy and D'Arcy weren't excellent as well- I was also very impressed with Paddy Jackson and Fergus McFadden when they came on.

Don't forget its Italy Ireland were playing and Ireland were expected to beat them well.

5 is average btw. Normally players are rated far too highly.

The wool has been pulled over you eyes then Prof, that was a 23 man masterclass today.

Seven tries and left probably three or four behind them in the first half.

That's the bit that irritated me.  Happy as a pig in schit with the end result, absolutely delighted for Brian O'Driscoll that he played such a potent role in his own last Home game (my family were having a great laugh saying the "Poor basterard had to virtually create, manufacture and mastermind his own-send off!!!")
But we were far too nervy and therefore at times hesitant and at times sloppy in the first half.  Italy did their work and did their tackling - which apparently was monumental in the stats - but Ireland were over-reaching when in prime position to hurt them.  We were giving them their hopes by failing to punish them time and time again.

Let's really try to psychologically take all the excessive bullschit out of the build up to next week's game. I mean players and management concentrating fully on the gameplans.  And maybe the media will do their bit too and lay off on the 'BOD' stuff for a week.  
The team must prepare to keep focus on the confidence to play the game they want to play....without forcing it.  Ruthlessness is in their armoury, even against France, if they settle down and trust it all.  Let it flow and flow with it.  
But the emotions of this season are in ways a double edged sword so far.  Joe is having a tough time containing it all - as they are coming from all directions and for many different reasons, including his own.  

One more game.  Let's get it right by taking as much emotion out of it as possible and then the players might relax more as they attempt to take their Lansdowne road menace to Paris.

Yeah, but he got 5 in your ratings and Henderson got 6. Ross got 7. Henry got 7. That would suggest you think those three players were better than Heaslip, which makes me wonder if we were watching the same game...

I think a championship win in Paris would be even more impressive than the Grand Slam in 2009. That's not taking anything away from Kidney, he was deservedly IRB Coach of the Year in '09 but in hindsight the level of the opposition in the 6N that year was quite low. England and Wales in particular, despite the latter's performance in Dublin, are considerably stronger teams now. We also had BOD and POC at the peak of their powers.
Plus in 2009 we had very few injuries - the only one I recall was Stephen Ferris coming off after six minutes in the Wales slam decider. I personally believed we wouldn't be able to cope without Sean O'Brien this year, but I'm glad to say he will have a task ahead of him playing himself back into the team. Other probable matchday players that have been unavailable include Donnacha Ryan, Ferris, Tommy Bowe and Luke Fitzgerald who appeared to be pencilled by Schmidt before the Scotland game.

With the return of O'Brien and Bowe in particular and with Schmidt at the helm the future for Ireland is exciting. There is a new generation of talent waiting in the wings as well although Joe may have to deal with the odd minor departure...

For me the standout forwards were Healy and Henry. The former was just an absolute beast in contact and deserved his try. Henry had a significant contribution to at least 5 turnovers that I saw.

You can't get 3 assists and have a poor game especially when two of them are off the cuff moments of genius. Trimble was very good to and I thought Kearney was good aside from the missed tackle.

I don't think anyone was poor truth be told. We worked hard and ground out the result we needed. I think everyone will have a few black marks on video review but nobody was consistently poor for me

Notch wrote:Yeah, but he got 5 in your ratings and Henderson got 6. Ross got 7. Henry got 7. That would suggest you think those three players were better than Heaslip, which makes me wonder if we were watching the same game...

Heaslip done some good things and done some bad things. Thats an average performance in my book. In a game like that I just expected more of him especially since the Italians were having to make 200+ tackles.


Ross deserved at 7 definitely because he is a tighthead and Ireland were on top in the scrums.

rodders wrote:The wool has been pulled over you eyes then Prof, that was a 23 man masterclass today.

Well, everyone sees things differently. ;)I'll tell you how I see it.


It was more of a tactical masterclass. Schmidt has made Ireland very hard to beat. They're a low risk side and generally keep things tight. The players are very well drilled and as a team they give away very few penalties. Also they like to keep the ball for long periods and keep the opposition on the back foot. Against Italy they won by wearing them down and then killing them off near the end. That was the plan and thats what happened. Apart from BOD there was nothing great from Ireland.


So tiredness and BOD magic were the main difference between the teams. Only for that it could have been just a 3pt lead at half time against an understrength Italian side. And being understrength they were only ever there for damage limitation.

profitius wrote:

rodders wrote:The wool has been pulled over you eyes then Prof, that was a 23 man masterclass today.

Well, everyone sees things differently. ;)I'll tell you how I see it.


It was more of a tactical masterclass. Schmidt has made Ireland very hard to beat. They're a low risk side and generally keep things tight. The players are very well drilled and as a team they give away very few penalties. Also they like to keep the ball for long periods and keep the opposition on the back foot. Against Italy they won by wearing them down and then killing them off near the end. That was the plan and thats what happened. Apart from BOD there was nothing great from Ireland.


So tiredness and BOD magic were the main difference between the teams. Only for that it could have been just a 3pt lead at half time against an understrength Italian side. And being understrength they were only ever there for damage limitation.

Can't you see what that's implying though?  And I'm kind of implying it too.  You say a tactical masterclass.  Therefore you acknowledge that the tactic worked...kinda perfectly.  You then go on to explain the tactics; and you talk about the players being well drilled and that they give away few penalties, and they keep the ball for long periods and keep the opposition on the back foot.  You also say that the plan was to wear Italy down and kill them off in the end.

So you acknowledge the tactic worked a treat (even though it might not be your favoured kind) and therefore the players must have played it perfectly?  Surely the tactic was not to inflict a game on tiring Italians but to set out to specifically tire them - "wear them down"?

The beauty of Ireland right now for me is that I'm still irritated by so many aspects of their play and yet they score seven tries against a furiously tackling Italian side.  There is SO MUCH room for improvement with Ireland that even if they achieve only a degree of it over the next few months, it would be frightening advancement.  I said that they easily left three or four genuine attempts at tries in the first half...and still had time to score the seven that they did score.  I'm happy...but I'm also delighted that I'm not yet totally convinced by them! I love the idea that they're not yet sharp enough.

profitius wrote:

Notch wrote:Yeah, but he got 5 in your ratings and Henderson got 6. Ross got 7. Henry got 7. That would suggest you think those three players were better than Heaslip, which makes me wonder if we were watching the same game...

Heaslip done some good things and done some bad things. Thats an average performance in my book. In a game like that I just expected more of him especially since the Italians were having to make 200+ tackles.


Ross deserved at 7 definitely because he is a tighthead and Ireland were on top in the scrums.  

To be fair, although he improved in the second half, Heaslip was knocked back in contact a fair bit from what I saw. I just don't think that should be happening too often for an 8.

Ah, boys, boys. Lots of picking nits here. You should be delighted with that result.

Based on the whole foul jamboree I was forced to watch yesterday at Murrayfield, you should absolutely stuff that French team, even in Paris and even if they get some of their regulations loose forwards back.

Incidentally, I agree with the comment above that the mark of Schmidt is a team with a low penalty count and it's that in particular which means that you should win next week.

Really good performance from Ireland yesterday. I have to say I thought the Italians are looking better as well. Some of their back play in the first half was as good as anything I have seen from them since them came in to the Championship.

Ireland look good for the 6 nations crown. France look like a shower of Poopie and Irland will win comfortably.

Unless, unless, France pull out one of those performances, but it's been a long time since they did that. They could easily have lost to England and Scotland in this championship and be sitting down the bottom for a second year.

Can't see it so good luck to Ireland for next week. I fancy Wales for secodn as I think we will beat England and Scotland but unless we score about 50 points in each then it's Ireland's to lose.

Standulstermen wrote:For me the standout forwards were Healy and Henry. The former was just an absolute beast in contact and deserved his try. Henry had a significant contribution to at least 5 turnovers that I saw.

I don't think anyone was poor truth be told. We worked hard and ground out the result we needed. I think everyone will have a few black marks on video review but nobody was consistently poor for me

Hate when people give Henry too much credit. He manufactured 1 turnover, ruined a clear overlap, ran himself, and got the ball ripped off him(by a winger).Luckily Ruddock was there to repair the damage.

Big Mac Michael wrote:

Standulstermen wrote:For me the standout forwards were Healy and Henry. The former was just an absolute beast in contact and deserved his try. Henry had a significant contribution to at least 5 turnovers that I saw.

I don't think anyone was poor truth be told. We worked hard and ground out the result we needed. I think everyone will have a few black marks on video review but nobody was consistently poor for me

Hate when people give Henry too much credit. He manufactured 1 turnover, ruined a clear overlap, ran himself, and got the ball ripped off him(by a winger).Luckily Ruddock was there to repair the damage.

  

Obviously he got turned over before the Cronin try and that's one of the black marks I referred to above. You clearly didn't look very hard to think he only had one turnover. Watch the game again

SecretFly wrote:
Can't you see what that's implying though?  

Thanks fly - yes that is what I was implying.

I'd also add that being pedantic over stats and individual errors is a bit of a red herring. The workrate, intensity and accuracy have been phenomenal - some of it won't appear in the stats - for example how many clearouts done by the likes of Trimble, Kearney, D'arcy - even Reddan and the contribution to the incredible ball retention. We can split hairs over player x and player y but ultimately a plus 80points difference tells its own story as to how this team is playing. There's always room for improvement but for me there is a lot more right than wrong with this side, which is why we are in the driving seat heading into next week as to who wins the championship.

I actually thought that Henry had a good game yesterday and I was impressed with Toner's work rate and his improved gain line breaking ability.

Trimble was immense and I am glad he is getting an extended run in the team as I have always thought that he has been under-rated.

Let's enjoy the moment and set our minds of the seriousness of the challenge in Paris.  

It's only if we take those guys absolutely seriously (and if our players prepare one more game of high-end intensity designed to meet a France playing as well as they can play) that we will be ready for the 'surprise' of them actually turning up to play.
Schmidt, I hope, won't be complacent this week, and neither will any of his players.  He'll be preparing to meet the 'surprise' French package - not the one that has played most of this competition so far.

Can france recreate the first half they did v england again..

That is the only way they will have a sniff against you boys. Otherwise Mr Fly you have won this 6 nations.. Ireland have been constantly good throughout so far..

Off course (cough cough) when you do win england will take the moral victory as we beat you but cough cough cough, thats another matter )

If we.............. *say it so softly coz you is Irish*...do win the Championship, then mystir, I'd happily have a glass of champagne with you to celebrate the moral victory you'd still have over us with the Twickenham win.  And you know all about me and booze - that would be a marked honour to you that I'd share a glass!

Seriously, if we win it, then certainly it will have been above my expectations for this year.  
I was hoping a top three, with a good return to some solid performance levels from the Irish (after our recent doldrum years).  It still could end up that way!  It still might be only third.  England still have a chance to nab it.  But a good performance against the French (win or lose - if the French play out of their skins!) and it will have been a positive start to Schmidt's time.  But now, I do hope for more than that 3rd though.

It is two draws on the spin v France isnt it..

But yes I will get that Bubbly on ice..   

profitius wrote:

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:

profitius wrote:My ratings (I've replaced Murray with Reddan).

1 Sackable performance
2 Disgraced the jersey
3 Had a bad game
4 Below par
5 Average
6 Solid
7 Good game with a few sparkles
8 Excellent performance
9 Outstanding performance
10 Legendary performance

15 Rob Kearney,  5
14 Andrew Trimble,  7
13 Brian O'Driscoll,  9
12 Gordon D'Arcy,    5
11 Dave Kearney,    4
10 Jonathan Sexton, 7
9 Eoin Reddan,    7
8 Jamie Heaslip,  5
7 Chris Henry,     7
6 Iain Henderson,  6
5 Paul O'Connell (c), 7
4 Devin Toner,  7
3 Mike Ross,  7
2 Rory Best,  7
1 Cian Healy. 7

Jamie Heaslip- by far the best carrier of the ball in the forwards with 56 metres.  Second highest tackle count in the side.  5 out of 10?  
Rob Kearney- by far the best carrier of the ball in the entire side with 135 metres.  Joint highest amount of clean breaks.  Most defenders beaten.  Ok, bad missed tackle.  But 5 out of 10?  

At least try and have a grip on reality.  Even one hand.  Even a pinky.  I'll even give you a pinky swear as a reward.  

Even Sin would do better than this.  That is how far you have fallen with this rating.  Hang your head in shame and then come in for a hug.  I forgive you this time.  

See folks this is a good example of someone forming a different reality using stats. What I keep telling people is you need to keep things in context especially stats.

For starters Kearney is a fullback and ran back with the ball on numerous occasions. Is that anything special?? He cost Ireland a try with yet another missed tackle so theres your point deducted.

Heaslip too was a bit meh. Got turned over a few times fairly easily. I didn't see him make any great carry in the tight so I presume they were easy meters.

"An alternate reality"?    Good man yourself Prof. I love it. Absolute love it. Its the lack of consistency I enjoy the best. Kearney just did his job and gets 5. Ross just did his job and got 7. Excellent. Just ignore the fact that Kearney also made the joint highest clean breaks and joint most defenders beaten. Awk but sure, just doing his job big cheese. Good man yourself.

I also hate to ruin your maths, seeing as you don't like stats. But if you take a mark off 10 than makes 9, not five. I'm a bloody pendant. I know, I know. I'm over complicating matters again.

You context is begrudgery.

Mine is noting that we hammered a team we lost too last year. My context is a new coaching setup has taken a team from the worst performance of the professional era to 80 minutes away from winning the championship. Mistakes have been made, some selections I don't agree with. But there is a roadmap and a gameplan. We are taking strides forward. The backline had zip yesterday and a cutting edge. Yes, "it's only Italy", but it is another stride in the right direction. The forwards had their worst performance of the championship as a unit but were still on top. We are getting there. Not world beaters just yet, not by a long shot. But another sign we are on the right road.

SecretFly wrote:

profitius wrote:

rodders wrote:The wool has been pulled over you eyes then Prof, that was a 23 man masterclass today.

Well, everyone sees things differently. ;)I'll tell you how I see it.


It was more of a tactical masterclass. Schmidt has made Ireland very hard to beat. They're a low risk side and generally keep things tight. The players are very well drilled and as a team they give away very few penalties. Also they like to keep the ball for long periods and keep the opposition on the back foot. Against Italy they won by wearing them down and then killing them off near the end. That was the plan and thats what happened. Apart from BOD there was nothing great from Ireland.


So tiredness and BOD magic were the main difference between the teams. Only for that it could have been just a 3pt lead at half time against an understrength Italian side. And being understrength they were only ever there for damage limitation.

Can't you see what that's implying though?  And I'm kind of implying it too.  You say a tactical masterclass.  Therefore you acknowledge that the tactic worked...kinda perfectly.  You then go on to explain the tactics; and you talk about the players being well drilled and that they give away few penalties, and they keep the ball for long periods and keep the opposition on the back foot.  You also say that the plan was to wear Italy down and kill them off in the end.

So you acknowledge the tactic worked a treat (even though it might not be your favoured kind) and therefore the players must have played it perfectly?  Surely the tactic was not to inflict a game on tiring Italians but to set out to specifically tire them - "wear them down"?

The beauty of Ireland right now for me is that I'm still irritated by so many aspects of their play and yet they score seven tries against a furiously tackling Italian side.  There is SO MUCH room for improvement with Ireland that even if they achieve only a degree of it over the next few months, it would be frightening advancement.  I said that they easily left three or four genuine attempts at tries in the first half...and still had time to score the seven that they did score.  I'm happy...but I'm also delighted that I'm not yet totally convinced by them!  I love the idea that they're not yet sharp enough.

The bolded part is my point. The last paragraph sums up how I see it.

The scores I gave the players were not bad. A rating of 6 (solid) for all the players would have been enough to beat Italy. In other words it would have ment the team carried out their instructions.

I just calculated it and the average is 6.46. Thats above a solid performance. Considering Ireland have the oldest team by far I think it was a well drilled solid performance without the need to be spectacular. Ireland didn't do anything brilliant of note with the exception of BOD.

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:

profitius wrote:

See folks this is a good example of someone forming a different reality using stats. What I keep telling people is you need to keep things in context especially stats.

For starters Kearney is a fullback and ran back with the ball on numerous occasions. Is that anything special?? He cost Ireland a try with yet another missed tackle so theres your point deducted.

Heaslip too was a bit meh. Got turned over a few times fairly easily. I didn't see him make any great carry in the tight so I presume they were easy meters.

"An alternate reality"?     Good man yourself Prof.  I love it.  Absolute love it.  Its the lack of consistency I enjoy the best.  Kearney just did his job and gets 5.  Ross just did his job and got 7.  Excellent.  Just ignore the fact that Kearney also made the joint highest clean breaks and joint most defenders beaten.  Awk but sure, just doing his job big cheese.  Good man yourself.  

I also hate to ruin your maths, seeing as you don't like stats.  But if you take a mark off 10 than makes 9, not five.  I'm a bloody pendant.  I know, I know.  I'm over complicating matters again.  

You context is begrudgery.  

Mine is noting that we hammered a team we lost too last year.  My context is a new coaching setup has taken a team from the worst performance of the professional era to 80 minutes away from winning the championship.  Mistakes have been made, some selections I don't agree with. But there is a roadmap and a gameplan.  We are taking strides forward.  The backline had zip yesterday and a cutting edge.  Yes, "it's only Italy", but it is another stride in the right direction.  The forwards had their worst performance of the championship as a unit but were still on top.  We are getting there.  Not world beaters just yet, not by a long shot.  But another sign we are on the right road.  

Italy just lost at home to Scotland. They lost by 20pts to a shambolic French side. Last summer they lost 39 - 10 to Samoa. They lost 44 - 10 to South Africa. They lost 14 - 19 to a weak Argentina. Scrapped past Fiji 37 - 31 and Lost 20 - 50 to Australia. So excuse me for not getting carried away!   

And I'm certainly not begrudging the win especially since I'll win hundreds of € if Ireland win the championship. I also have not called for any players to be dropped and I've backed Schmidt from day 1.

So yes the ratings can look harsh but I've high standards which can lead to harsh looking ratings. Ireland were not great but a bit of BOD magic was the main difference with the Italians eventually tiring due to the work Ireland put in. I think working hard is the least you should expect.

I can't remember a time the last time Ireland racked up that many points against a Tier 1 team. We had a job to do, and by all counts it was mission accomplished. Bit of perspective prof!

profitius wrote:Ireland were not great but a bit of BOD magic was the main difference with the Italians eventually tiring due to the work Ireland put in. I think working hard is the least you should expect.

No I think that is a bit of misinterpretation of workrate - every player on every team works hard. The difference is the quality and intensity of our hard work at retention and recycling was much greater.

In the past maybe we'd have gone through  a couple of phases then lost our shape and ended up with slow ball and carriers taking static ball - this isn't lack of effort, its a combination of poor coaching and players not understanding their roles. ROG spoke last night about how much more detailed the coaching was in Ireland under Schmidt vs France.

The huge difference in this side is the organization and intelligence at the contact. One example was when Reddan had to go in and clear out - Healy and D'arcy quickly assessed, Healy did the pick and go and then D'arcy acted scrum half on the next phase which allowed Reddan to get back in position and keep everything moving at pace.

Towards the end there was a ruthless hunger to keep playing to the end and maximise the score, in that regard McGraths try was the one that said the most about this side.

This squad - i.e. - everyone who has featured so far is playing extremely well I think and the gameplan in every game has been fairly spot on.

Marshes wrote:I can't remember a time the last time Ireland racked up that many points against a Tier 1 team. We had a job to do, and by all counts it was mission accomplished. Bit of perspective prof!

Is Italy a T1 side?

In one game this year we scored more tries that in the whole tournament last year, we are within one game of a championship win, playing good rugby, well organised and a very cohesive team that makes very few mistakes yet there are still people that arent convinced about how much we have improved.

There are also people that still think that Darcy and O'Driscoll arent in the team on merit. Both have been outstanding in this tournament and both are very under rated as far as I can see.

Since the slam the amount of times I have heard Ireland fans blame our poor results on not having good enough players in Ireland or that the golden generation has gone etc. It is impossible to hammer Wales, Scotland and Italy if you dont have good enough players so lets put that myth to bed finally.

GunsGerms wrote:Since the slam the amount of times I have heard Ireland fans blame our poor results on not having good enough players in Ireland or that the golden generation has gone etc. It is impossible to hammer Wales, Scotland and Italy if you dont have good enough players so lets put that myth to bed finally.

Interesting comment Guns. You might not agree but I think on paper Wales and France have perhaps the most talented individual players in the competition but England and Ireland have been by a distance the best sides.

This to me shows the value and importance of the coaching set up and how much difference the new coaches have made.

rodders wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:Since the slam the amount of times I have heard Ireland fans blame our poor results on not having good enough players in Ireland or that the golden generation has gone etc. It is impossible to hammer Wales, Scotland and Italy if you dont have good enough players so lets put that myth to bed finally.

Interesting comment Guns. You might not agree but I think on paper Wales and France have perhaps the most talented individual players in the competition but England and Ireland have been by a distance the best sides.

This to me shows the value and importance of the coaching set up and how much difference the new coaches have made.

Yes possibly France and Wales have the best players but not by that much. Huget for example has been the player of the tournament for me. The way I look at is it though is you dont need to have 15 O'Driscolls or the best player in the world in every position you just need players that are talented enough to win with the right game plan and execution.

I have always believe that we have the players to beat anyone. Under Schmidt we have seen we certainly have the players to compete with the best anyway.

GG wrote: by GunsGerms on Mon Mar 10, 2014 9:34 am
In one game this year we scored more tries that in the whole tournament last year, we are within one game of a championship win, playing good rugby, well organised and a very cohesive team that makes very few mistakes yet there are still people that arent convinced about how much we have improved.

There are also people that still think that Darcy and O'Driscoll arent in the team on merit. Both have been outstanding in this tournament and both are very under rated as far as I can see.

Since the slam the amount of times I have heard Ireland fans blame our poor results on not having good enough players in Ireland or that the golden generation has gone etc. It is impossible to hammer Wales, Scotland and Italy if you dont have good enough players so lets put that myth to bed finally.

How does that logic get retrofitted into last season's 6Ns dire performance, GG?

Basically, Scotland and Italy don't merit a place in the 6Ns so that's one good win.

All BOD & Co have to do now is to travel to Paris and beat a generally disorganised but highly unpredictable France.

Portnoy's Complaint wrote:

GG wrote: by GunsGerms on Mon Mar 10, 2014 9:34 am
In one game this year we scored more tries that in the whole tournament last year, we are within one game of a championship win, playing good rugby, well organised and a very cohesive team that makes very few mistakes yet there are still people that arent convinced about how much we have improved.

There are also people that still think that Darcy and O'Driscoll arent in the team on merit. Both have been outstanding in this tournament and both are very under rated as far as I can see.

Since the slam the amount of times I have heard Ireland fans blame our poor results on not having good enough players in Ireland or that the golden generation has gone etc. It is impossible to hammer Wales, Scotland and Italy if you dont have good enough players so lets put that myth to bed finally.

How does that logic get retrofitted into last season's 6Ns dire performance, GG?

Basically, Scotland and Italy don't merit a place in the 6Ns so that's one good win.

All BOD & Co have to do now is to travel to Paris and beat a generally disorganised but highly unpredictable France.

How can you say that Italy don't Merit a place when they have beaten Wales Ireland France and Scotland in recent seasons. If you think that England will have a cake walk in rome your going to be in for a rude awakening

Portnoy's Complaint wrote:

GG wrote: by GunsGerms on Mon Mar 10, 2014 9:34 am
In one game this year we scored more tries that in the whole tournament last year, we are within one game of a championship win, playing good rugby, well organised and a very cohesive team that makes very few mistakes yet there are still people that arent convinced about how much we have improved.

There are also people that still think that Darcy and O'Driscoll arent in the team on merit. Both have been outstanding in this tournament and both are very under rated as far as I can see.

Since the slam the amount of times I have heard Ireland fans blame our poor results on not having good enough players in Ireland or that the golden generation has gone etc. It is impossible to hammer Wales, Scotland and Italy if you dont have good enough players so lets put that myth to bed finally.

How does that logic get retrofitted into last season's 6Ns dire performance, GG?

Basically, Scotland and Italy don't merit a place in the 6Ns so that's one good win.

All BOD & Co have to do now is to travel to Paris and beat a generally disorganised but highly unpredictable France.

Retrofitted? Dont get this comment?

Portnoy's Complaint wrote:

Basically, Scotland and Italy don't merit a place in the 6Ns so that's one good win.

But Italy being in the 6N will of course give England an open invitation to do as much as they can to win a 6N Championship.  

And who knows? - A devalued win against a traditional cricket-score side might just do the bizz.  Will the newspapers in England be fretting the next day that the glorious re-take of the Championship, that nearly evaded them with that French game, was in a way sullied by the quality of the opposition they railroaded through to get it?

I think not, Port  The English will gladly take the plaudits and to the devil with concepts of 'merit' until next year - when the age old argument might have to be revamped if another Nation uses Italy to take a Championship of their own.

Don't be too critical of the 'dross' at the bottom...dross at the bottom always have their purposes; whether that's in theoretical Capitalism or rugby Leagues.  There is always a sump where stale oil goes and France got their oiling last year.

I have to say I was impressed with that display. A lot of comments on how we had no 'edge' except for BOD and to a lesser extent Sexton. How many points did we score after those substitutions?

Healy scored a short drive over try and comes off the field. McGrath is on the field at the end and scores a short drive over try. Healy is a beast but there is an option behind him.

Best put in a good shift, Cronin isn't a direct replacement but is definitely an impact from the bench and there wasn't a drop off in set piece after the substitution.

Ross was his usual solid self. Moore is really pushing him now. Who would have thought only a short while ago that Ireland would have options at TH.

Ireland has been very 'settled' in the second row but that said we have seen good performances from Toner, POC, Touhy to suggest we can hold our own there if one player isn't fit to start. I'd have liked a bit more minutes for Touhy though.

Backrow. Best thing I can say is that we haven't missed a certain SOB. TOD, Jordi, Ruddock, POM, Henry, Heaslip and Henderson are all able to put in a shift without the gameplan having to change dramatically.

Likewise Murray/Reddan/Boss have all shown solid displays at scrumhalf when needed.

Sexton has been hit and miss by his standards. Jackson has done everything asked of him so far.

Centres of Darcy and BOD have performed well but there has been little planning or progression for life after this pairing.

The wings of Trimble and D Kearney have done well. We all know what we can get from Zebo and Bowe so this is looking like a strong area for us.

R Kearney has had some very strong performances, entering the line more than in the past, good carries, strong in the area, good yards after initial contact.

For Joe and the management team, we were close to England on the scoreboard and you could see by the reaction on the English players faces at the final whistle that defeating Ireland wasn't the formality it once might have been considered. We are physical at the breakdown but don't appear to be illegal in our approach. We have good discipline throughout the team. Our set pieces are platforms for attack instead of being situations of 50-50 ball retention. We can maul quite effectively as well.

So far as a 6Ns goes, I'm fairly happy with how we have gone about our business and the messages from within the camp seem to indicate enthusiasm for playing the game, confidence in players own ability, accountability and focus.

I'd currently say this has been a solid year one display for JS's side. A great performance next weekend and it will have exceeded any expectation from me.

He has 3 more batches of games with the Irish team before the RWC, with a trip to Argentina, the AIs and one more 6Ns to be played before that. There is still time to improve, it will be interesting how he approaches each of those series of games.

Aparently Bowe will not be recalled for the Ireland v France game. Who is going to sing on Dawson street if we win the championship?

POM will more than likely be brought back into the side v France.

GunsGerms wrote:Aparently Bowe will not be recalled for the Ireland v France game. Who is going to sing on Dawson street if we win the championship?

Any reason given? I must admit I felt he'd have been a good addition either as a starter or on the bench. Best way to defend is to attack... and I felt this was probably the time for both Bowe and Zebo to have a part in the game at some stage and make sure we impose our attack rather than letting the French have any room to impose themselves.

Nice pic of Kearney during the game.

Kearndog building a fort:

SecretFly wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:Aparently Bowe will not be recalled for the Ireland v France game. Who is going to sing on Dawson street if we win the championship?

Any reason given?  I must admit I felt he'd have been a good addition either as a starter or on the bench.  Best way to defend is to attack... and I felt this was probably the time for both Bowe and Zebo to have a part in the game at some stage and make sure we impose our attack rather than letting the French have any room to impose themselves.  

He has been selected for Ulster as he continues to improve his fitness.

GunsGerms wrote:Nice pic of Kearney during the game.

Kearndog building a fort:

That's even funnier as live action...

This was pretty funny too

http://balls.ie/rugby/tweet-weekend-goes-fergus-mcfadden/

Very very good. Very smart stuff.

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:

profitius wrote:

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:

profitius wrote:My ratings (I've replaced Murray with Reddan).

1 Sackable performance
2 Disgraced the jersey
3 Had a bad game
4 Below par
5 Average
6 Solid
7 Good game with a few sparkles
8 Excellent performance
9 Outstanding performance
10 Legendary performance

15 Rob Kearney,  5
14 Andrew Trimble,  7
13 Brian O'Driscoll,  9
12 Gordon D'Arcy,    5
11 Dave Kearney,    4
10 Jonathan Sexton, 7
9 Eoin Reddan,    7
8 Jamie Heaslip,  5
7 Chris Henry,     7
6 Iain Henderson,  6
5 Paul O'Connell (c), 7
4 Devin Toner,  7
3 Mike Ross,  7
2 Rory Best,  7
1 Cian Healy. 7

Jamie Heaslip- by far the best carrier of the ball in the forwards with 56 metres.  Second highest tackle count in the side.  5 out of 10?  
Rob Kearney- by far the best carrier of the ball in the entire side with 135 metres.  Joint highest amount of clean breaks.  Most defenders beaten.  Ok, bad missed tackle.  But 5 out of 10?  

At least try and have a grip on reality.  Even one hand.  Even a pinky.  I'll even give you a pinky swear as a reward.  

Even Sin would do better than this.  That is how far you have fallen with this rating.  Hang your head in shame and then come in for a hug.  I forgive you this time.  

See folks this is a good example of someone forming a different reality using stats. What I keep telling people is you need to keep things in context especially stats.

For starters Kearney is a fullback and ran back with the ball on numerous occasions. Is that anything special?? He cost Ireland a try with yet another missed tackle so theres your point deducted.

Heaslip too was a bit meh. Got turned over a few times fairly easily. I didn't see him make any great carry in the tight so I presume they were easy meters.

"An alternate reality"?     Good man yourself Prof.  I love it.  Absolute love it.  Its the lack of consistency I enjoy the best.  Kearney just did his job and gets 5.  Ross just did his job and got 7.  Excellent.  Just ignore the fact that Kearney also made the joint highest clean breaks and joint most defenders beaten.  Awk but sure, just doing his job big cheese.  Good man yourself.  

I also hate to ruin your maths, seeing as you don't like stats.  But if you take a mark off 10 than makes 9, not five.  I'm a bloody pendant.  I know, I know.  I'm over complicating matters again.  

You context is begrudgery.  

Mine is noting that we hammered a team we lost too last year.  My context is a new coaching setup has taken a team from the worst performance of the professional era to 80 minutes away from winning the championship.  Mistakes have been made, some selections I don't agree with. But there is a roadmap and a gameplan.  We are taking strides forward.  The backline had zip yesterday and a cutting edge.  Yes, "it's only Italy", but it is another stride in the right direction.  The forwards had their worst performance of the championship as a unit but were still on top.  We are getting there.  Not world beaters just yet, not by a long shot.  But another sign we are on the right road.  

That's exactly how I feel about us under Schmidt. The belief of these players, in the game-plans put to them, is blatant. They are buying into Schmidts way of thinking. Its taken time for some to grasp it, but, it has visibly grown with every game.

This gig is only getting started. We are going to knock 7-bells of shoite out of France. We are a far superior unit.