Ireland vs Italy, 8th March

First topic message reminder :

IRELAND VS ITALY

Date: Saturday, March 8
Kick-off: 14:30 GMT
Venue: Aviva Stadium, Dublin
Referee: Nigel Owens (Wales)
Assistant referees: Pascal Gauzère (France), Greg Garner (England)
Television match official: Geoff Warren (England)
Assessor: Andrew Cole (Australia)

IRELAND TEAM wrote:15 Rob Kearney, 14 Andrew Trimble, 13 Brian O'Driscoll, 12 Gordon D'Arcy, 11 Dave Kearney, 10 Jonathan Sexton, 9 Conor Murray, 8 Jamie Heaslip, 7 Chris Henry, 6 Iain Henderson, 5 Paul O'Connell (c), 4 Devin Toner, 3 Mike Ross, 2 Rory Best, 1 Cian Healy.

16 Sean Cronin, 17 Jack McGrath, 18 Martin Moore, 19 Rhys Ruddock, 20 Jordi Murphy, 21 Eoin Reddan, 22 Paddy Jackson, 23 Fergus McFadden.

ITALY TEAM wrote:15 Luke McLean, 14 Angelo Esposito, 13 Michele Campagnaro, 12 Gonzalo Garcia, 11 Leonardo Sarto, 10 Luciano Orquera, 9 Tito Tebaldi, 8 Robert Barbieri, 7 Paul Derbyshire, 6 Joshua Furno, 5 Marco Bortolami (c), 4 Quentin Geldenhuys, 3 Martin Castrogiovanni, 2 Leonardo Ghiraldini, 1 Alberto de Marchi

16 David Giazzon, 17 Michele Rizzo, 18 Lorenzo Cittadini, 19 Antonio Pavanello, 20 Manoa Vosawai, 21 Edoardo Gori, 22 Tommaso Allan, 23 Andrea Masi

If we win this game by a larger margin than the winners of the other two games achieve then it's very, very simple- we set up a Cup Final for ourselves in Paris to win the Championship. We do already have the best points difference but we have a chance to settle the issue of points difference beyond all doubt and make this a very simple equation. An Ireland win in Paris, and we are champions. We are out to score and Joe Schmidt has named his strongest available team.

Italy have chosen to rotate their squad with half an eye on targeting the final game against England, Sergio Parisse is rested along with the first choice halfbacks in a team with a more experimental look. Tito Tebaldi and Andrea Masi make long awaited returns to the Italian match day squad and Luciano Orquera will hope to recapture the form which saw him perform so well in some famous Italian victories in the 2013 campaign.

There'll be plenty of applause for a retiring legend... but no room for sentiment. A ruthless and clinical performance is required.

Sin é wrote:

profitius wrote:Not surprising to see who started all the Munster stuff on this thread!

Just to be clear, it was Guns!

That's who I ment. Plenty of wumming from him lately!

Poor selection from Schmidt though. Ultra conservative.

the-goon wrote:The team

Kearney
Trimble
BOD
D'Arcy
DK
Sexton
Murray

Heaslip
Henry
Henderson
POC
Toner
Ross
Best
Healy

Cronin
McGrath
Moore
Ruddock
Murphy
Redden
Jackon
McFadden

Disappointed with that, I think we are risking key players and missed a developement oppportunity.

Oh well, time to get behind the team.

I'd like to have seen some rotation but it looks like we're going all out to win this game by a decent margin and make winning in France by a point enough to secure the title.

Looks like Henderson will get some decent gametime at lock.

The killer H's in the back row!

Works better with B's.

clivemcl wrote:Pretty happy with the team as its going, and Henderson I'm sure will have a great game.

Only thing I would say is, why not give Jackson another test match of experience against Italy especially since Sexton had an injury, and wasn't his usual best last time out?

Apart from that, no complaints.

Fairly simple really. In 119 tournaments we have been champions only 11 times. We currently top the table with two games to go and a grand slam off the table. Points difference, every single point, is critical now and therefore only a buffoon would choose to pick anything but their first choice players at this point.

The gulf between Sexton and the next best out half has widened. Now isnt the time to close the gap. A championship win is paramount.

Poor selection from Schmidt though. Ultra conservative.

I think he is looking to rack up a big score and going with what he sees as his strongest team.

Winning a a Championship in his first 6 nations would buy some grace in the eyes of detractors and boost confidence in the camp.

Can you buy grace? Perhaps that is an oxymoron.

It actually appears that quite a few Ireland "fans" dont want Ireland to win the championship.

I wonder is that because it would create an extra aura around kidneys slam?

the-goon wrote:

Sin é wrote:
My point is that it doesn't surprise me that Schmidt doesn't pick Munster players because they are not his kind of players and he won't be able to get the best out of them.

I like the way Zebo plays for Munster. I'd wouldn't be happy if Schmidt changed him into another Dave Kearney. (No disrespect to Kearney, he is a very good player - reminds me of the very under rated Ian Dowling).

JS isn't Kidney, he won't put square pegs in round holes. If Zebo (or any player) doesn't have (or is not showing) the skills he is looking for then he won't pick him. It's horses for courses selection, varying depending on the gameplan.
But I think he does rate Zebo, our back play is developing, JS started up front and expand out. It's baby steps, he has a lot of work after the omni-shambles that the previous regime left the team in.
Zebo will get his chance, and I hope he nets a MoM hattrick when he does, it will mean Ireland will have most likely won the game. Besides, JS will want skills ADDED to his game not to replace them.

Nope its not - it all about system. Ruddock/Murphy back-up locks. Thats a bit like putting a square peg in a round hole!

System
“You’ve got to understand the system and be able to stay in the system and part of that is attitude, in that you’re able to trust the guys either side of you, that you don’t get too tight thinking he might not make the tackle and then a wide pass gets you beaten and they get a bit of space and then you’re chasing your tail. Or you don’t quite trust the guy on the outside to make the tackles and start to drop under him, and then suddenly they get this space back in here with a late switch off the sideline, that sort of thing.

“To stay in that defensive system and to be accurate in your tackle entry and delivery, a lot of that is technical stuff that I think you need to maintain a consistent attitude of a work ethic and a trust throughout your training and throughout your playing from match to match and that’s our challenge for the Six Nations.”

I wonder how did he punish the Kearney brothers for not trusting each other against England for their try!

san wrote:The killer H's in the back row!

Works better with B's.

Could work it as Triple-H like the WWE fella. They could play his entrance music when they take the field, win a turnover, etc.

Murphy and Ruddock are not the second row back up, he said in the press conference that he wants Henderson to finish in the second row so he can have a look at him in both positions.

I'm all for 'rotation' - wise rotation! And was after it as early as the second game... against Wales.  

I didn't mind the idea of it back then because firstly, I felt we needed it after a win against Scotland that didn't impress me at all. We were also coming from a low place generally and I was in a mood to test out how big a genuine squad we had under a new coach, playing things his way.  

I was thinking very much of the future and in using the 6N as the lab.  I felt a top three placing at the end would be a good run out for Schmidt's team if he was using it to pre-plan for months and years to come.

But now the Championship has become more maths than experimentation.  And I like the implied intent in his resolve to pick the stable side again.  He's not using the Italy game as a breather for his main players to date but instead seems ready to charge after this championship by thinking of points differences - being conscious of what England will be trying to do with the same Italian side a week later.

I like that - I hope I like it after the game itself.

Mickado wrote:Murphy and Ruddock are not the second row back up, he said in the press conference that he wants Henderson to finish in the second row so he can have a look at him in both positions.

Well, lets hope that Henderson can last the 80 mins/doesn't get injured and POC & Toner can last the 80 mins.

SecretFly wrote:I'm all for 'rotation' - wise rotation! And was after it as early as the second game... against Wales.  

I didn't mind the idea of it back then because firstly, I felt we needed it after a win against Scotland that didn't impress me at all. We were also coming from a low place generally and I was in a mood to test out how big a genuine squad we had under a new coach, playing things his way.  

I was thinking very much of the future and in using the 6N as the lab.  I felt a top three placing at the end would be a good run out for Schmidt's team if he was using it to pre-plan for months and years to come.

But now the Championship has become more maths than experimentation.  And I like the implied intent in his resolve to pick the stable side again.  He's not using the Italy game as a breather for his main players to date but instead seems ready to charge after this championship by thinking of points differences - being conscious of what England will be trying to do with the same Italian side a week later.

I like that - I hope I like it after the game itself.

No faith in his players outside of the starting 15. And that is sure going to do wonders for squad morale.

Not surprising really, he was a very conservative selecter with Leinster as well.

PS - even Kidney managed to change his team when going for the GS. This is for the Championship where we will need as many points as possible - our backs have a fairly blunt attack.

GunsGerms wrote:

clivemcl wrote:Pretty happy with the team as its going, and Henderson I'm sure will have a great game.

Only thing I would say is, why not give Jackson another test match of experience against Italy especially since Sexton had an injury, and wasn't his usual best last time out?

Apart from that, no complaints.

Fairly simple really. In 119 tournaments we have been champions only 11 times. We currently top the table with two games to go and a grand slam off the table. Points difference, every single point, is critical now and therefore only a buffoon would choose to pick anything but their first choice players at this point.

The gulf between Sexton and the next best out half has widened. Now isnt the time to close the gap. A championship win is paramount.

Guns dont believe everything you here on "off the ball" Sexton was rubbish against England and would seriously want to up his game. Madigan is every bit as dynamic as Sexton when he is playing in front of a pack that is dominating. His game control and awareness is not as good as Sexton but he can unlock defences playing right up on the gain line.

We will have no real back up at the WC if Joe keeps this up.

And no ZEBO FFS

Profitus wrote:That's who I ment. Plenty of wumming from him lately!

Wasn't there something about 606 being a place where sport can be discussed and debated in a mature manner and any unpleasantness, disrespect etc being dealt with in a harsh and decisive manner?

Oh deary me. I see the same old BS being spouted about that mumbling embarrasement who coached our national side into mediocrity.

Anyway, ignoring that tripe I am happy with the selection. It's another case of horses for courses from who is available. Without looking towards the game against France we need our strongest side to beat a side who are no longer a guaranteed bank vault of points scored.
Come on Ireland!!!!!
A win is all I ask for now

BlueMuff wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

clivemcl wrote:Pretty happy with the team as its going, and Henderson I'm sure will have a great game.

Only thing I would say is, why not give Jackson another test match of experience against Italy especially since Sexton had an injury, and wasn't his usual best last time out?

Apart from that, no complaints.

Fairly simple really. In 119 tournaments we have been champions only 11 times. We currently top the table with two games to go and a grand slam off the table. Points difference, every single point, is critical now and therefore only a buffoon would choose to pick anything but their first choice players at this point.

The gulf between Sexton and the next best out half has widened. Now isnt the time to close the gap. A championship win is paramount.

Guns dont believe everything you here on "off the ball" Sexton was rubbish against England and would seriously want to up his game. Madigan is every bit as dynamic as Sexton when he is playing in front of a pack that is dominating. His game control and awareness is not as good as Sexton but he can unlock defences playing right up on the gain line.

We will have no real back up at the WC if Joe keeps this up.

And no ZEBO FFS

Sexton played badly by his own high standards. Even a bad Sexton is marginally better than any other options.

Jackson doesnt kick regularly for Ulster and Madigan doesnt play regularly for Leinster. Keatley isnt good enough and JJ doesnt get enough game time and is too inexperienced. We have three potentially good deputy OHs but now isnt a wise time to shoe horn any of them into the team.

Sin é wrote:This is for the Championship where we will need as many points as possible - our backs have a fairly blunt attack.

He knows that.  It's why he's top of the board on points difference currently.  

WC sequence testing.  Game after game trial.  Building momentum.  Would we really be asking him to mix up his side in a WC quarter or semi?  

This is the exercise now.  Keeping an alleged stable side going with minor tweaks.  No wilting from those efforts will now be looked for - like we've all too often done in the past.  How much does the 'Championship side' want it?  And how much are they going to fight for it and for their individual positions?  How fit are they under the NEW (thanks IRFU - finally!) fitness and conditioning regime?

Have England messed around too much with their side?  No - they're in the hunt too - no, it's serious now.

Plenty of faith in players outside the 15.  Their time will come.  This Championship ain't it because it has already panned out potentially better than most of us truly expected.  Championship mode now...and plenty still being tested on with the current players.

"Even a bad Sexton is marginally better than any other options."

I don't agree at all, GG. Sexton had a poor game against England. I would put that down to a knock, although in the game against Wales he didn't play well for at least the first 20 minutes or so. A confidence player? To suggest that Jackson would have played worse than Sexton, after Sexton had taken that knock against England, is just wrong.
As for Jackson not kicking regularly for Ulster? He does. It is only that Ulster prefer Pienaar kicking in the HEC games. Understandable when considering just how good Pienaar is. Jackson was kicking for Ulster leading up to the HEC games, and since; bar one long range kick. Plumtree mentioned that Jacksons kicking was good himself. So I don't think it's that they don't trust Jackson with the boot.
Having said all that, an on form Sexton has to be first choice, and I guess he must have shown up well in training. I'm disappointed that Jackson doesn't get the start, but then we are going after a 6Ns championship win, points win prizes, and I trust Joe to make the right decisions.

Fly, Kidney was frequently criticised for supposedly not rotating his squad. Since Schmidt has brought this 'non rotating' to a new level, I'm awaiting the criticism.

The effort put into making excuses for Schmidt though, are quite amusing. (I know, I'm easily amused).

Sin é wrote:Fly, Kidney was frequently criticised for supposedly not rotating his squad. Since Schmidt has brought this 'non rotating' to a new level, I'm awaiting the criticism.

The effort put into making excuses for Schmidt though, are quite amusing. (I know, I'm easily amused).

I'd agree it's disappointing,I'd like to see some rotation in the front row and at 10 especially.

Sin é wrote:Fly, Kidney was frequently criticised for supposedly not rotating his squad. Since Schmidt has brought this 'non rotating' to a new level, I'm awaiting the criticism.

The effort put into making excuses for Schmidt though, are quite amusing. (I know, I'm easily amused).

You missed the criticism of the very thing, Sin. It happened weeks ago. Rotation, the need for it. Me. 606 records it all as I contantly tell ME. No escape from the truth here. You really are beginning to wilt yourself under the pressure of trying to keep everyone's changing opinions in your files and up to date

I'll want rotation. It is thus stated. I already wanted it. I'll want it again. But now I want a Championship if it's doable. The Championship really wasn't considered 'on' before the 6N began...and that's because we'd fallen so far, even in our own estimations, during the preceding years. It's on now. Let's see if we can manufacture the taking of it.

Sin é wrote:Fly, Kidney was frequently criticised for supposedly not rotating his squad.

And incidently when did Kidney begin to get frequently criticised for not rotating???  
After his first six games?  
After his Slam?  
Or when his side started losing big time and people begin to lose faith in him?  I remember me saying "It ain't the players.  Which 10 we have doesn't matter.  It's the system.  Our 10, whether it's Sexton or O'Gara, kicks the ball into the teeth of attacking sides - under direction."  Rotation only works when the system itself is already a good one.

Kidney managed to rotate his team AND win a Grand Slam.

Players like Paddy Wallace got to start games. He even benched the great Heaslip for one game (which J'aime has never forgiven him for that)! He rotated his his SHs. Only ones not rotated were the props (and thats because there was no one to rotate them with).

MunsterMac wrote:

Profitus wrote:That's who I ment. Plenty of wumming from him lately!

Wasn't there something about 606 being a place where sport can be discussed and debated in a mature manner and any unpleasantness, disrespect etc being dealt with in a harsh and decisive manner?

Get laid into someone on a personal level and see what happens  

I'll update the OP momentarily- pretty delighted that we won't be facing Parisse, or has that all been missed in the interprovincial schlong measuring championships?   

Sin é wrote:Kidney managed to rotate his team AND win a Grand Slam.

Players like Paddy Wallace got to start games. He even benched the great Heaslip for one game (which J'aime has never forgiven him for that)! He rotated his his SHs. Only ones not rotated were the props (and thats because there was no one to rotate them with).

Kidney started 19 different players in that Championship. So far Schmidt has started 18 different players.

To be fair MunsterMac, Sin E and GunsGerms are being a wee bit petty but there's still a gap between petty and personal.

SecretFly wrote:

Sin é wrote:Fly, Kidney was frequently criticised for supposedly not rotating his squad.

And incidently when did Kidney begin to get frequently criticised for not rotating???  
After his first six games?  
After his Slam?  
Or when his side started losing big time and people begin to lose faith in him?  I remember me saying "It ain't the players.  Which 10 we have doesn't matter.  It's the system.  Our 10, whether it's Sexton or O'Gara, kicks the ball into the teeth of attacking sides - under direction."  Rotation only works when the system itself is already a good one.

He got criticised for picking Munster players and not using Leinster players like Jennings instead of Wally. Oh and Reddan instead of O'Leary ( look forward to Reddan's 2 minute cameo at the weekend). He'll need resting just like Boss does this week.   

Sin é wrote:Kidney managed to rotate his team AND win a Grand Slam.

Players like Paddy Wallace got to start games. He even benched the great Heaslip for one game (which J'aime has never forgiven him for that)! He rotated his his SHs. Only ones not rotated were the props (and thats because there was no one to rotate them with).

Wallace started cos D'Arcy was injured and the second bit you've just made up.

Sin é wrote:Kidney managed to rotate his team AND win a Grand Slam.

Players like Paddy Wallace got to start games. He even benched the great Heaslip for one game (which J'aime has never forgiven him for that)! He rotated his his SHs. Only ones not rotated were the props (and thats because there was no one to rotate them with).

Ah but sure you never know, if Zebo gets 15 minutes against France we could still pull of the Grand Slam if we score heavily enough.  I think 103 points is when you gain enough points to make one game equal two wins

Kidney.......................... Kidney............................. had his Golden Generation Ticket at the time, issued to him by EOS.  Schmidt has oldies with greying hair (and beards) and a clutchful of young'uns who all seem to think that shooting Zebras is good enough to hunt Elephants....  It ain't.  Zebras run the other way.

Notch wrote:

Sin é wrote:Kidney managed to rotate his team AND win a Grand Slam.

Players like Paddy Wallace got to start games. He even benched the great Heaslip for one game (which J'aime has never forgiven him for that)! He rotated his his SHs. Only ones not rotated were the props (and thats because there was no one to rotate them with).

Kidney started 19 different players in that Championship. So far Schmidt has started 18 different players.

To be fair MunsterMac, Sin E and GunsGerms are being a wee bit petty but there's still a gap between petty and personal.

He wouldn't have except POC was ill and D'Arcy wasn't fit. As soon as D'Arcy was fit, Marshall was dropped. Henderson would not be starting if POM was fully fit.

In the GS year, Paddy Wallace, Stringer, Best & Leamy all got selected even when the ones they replaced were fit (and on the bench).

Sin é wrote:Oh and Reddan instead of O'Leary

Yeah, I remember aimless box-kicking ....more orders from on-high. The opposition got so used to seeing them coming that they camped out overnight to be in the right part of the field to collect them.

I'm happy.

SecretFly wrote:

Sin é wrote:Kidney managed to rotate his team AND win a Grand Slam.

Players like Paddy Wallace got to start games. He even benched the great Heaslip for one game (which J'aime has never forgiven him for that)! He rotated his his SHs. Only ones not rotated were the props (and thats because there was no one to rotate them with).

Ah but sure you never know, if Zebo gets 15 minutes against France we could still pull of the Grand Slam if we score heavily enough.  I think 103 points is when you gain enough points to make one game equal two wins

Kidney.......................... Kidney............................. had his Golden Generation Ticket at the time, issued to him by EOS.  Schmidt has oldies with greying hair (and beards) and a clutchful of young'uns who all seem to think that shooting Zebras is good enough to hunt Elephants....  It ain't.  Zebras run the other way.

Zebo won't make the team for France. Neither will Ryan or Bowe. They needed to be on the bench this weekend at least to learn 'Joe's System').

Actually Schmidt said Bowe got up to speed very quickly, but I agree he probably won't feature.

Kidney's first few year was full of rotation, the problem was he didn't do it often in his last year or so.


I'm disappointed personally, we can beat Italy while resting guys, especially an Italy without Parisse. Would have brought in McGrath, D'Arcy was staying in the side, would liked to have seen Zebo, but that won't happen at the moment for whatever reason. O'Donnell would have been nice from a Munster point of view, but I like Henry.

Looking forward to seeing Henderson, I see it as a missed opportunity and think the summer tour needs to see some more rotation.

SecretFly wrote:

Sin é wrote:Oh and Reddan instead of O'Leary

Yeah, I remember aimless box-kicking ....more orders from on-high.  The opposition got so used to seeing them coming that they camped out overnight to be in the right part of the field to collect them.

Yep, aimless kicking to a Grand Slam!   

Sin é wrote:
In the GS year, Paddy Wallace, Stringer, Best & Leamy all got selected even when the ones they replaced were fit (and on the bench).

Slightly different circumstances given we were unbeaten in Round 4, but 14 out of 15 players started every game in the Slam. And there's nothing wrong with that at all. What has that got to do with this team? What about the stats I quoted, the stats you quoted- what have they to do with this? Well, nothing. Absolutely nothing. There may be similarities but the two situations have very little to do with each other in any meaningful way.

P.S. you've got it backwards. Paddy Wallace was first choice, D'Arcy was second!

Sin é wrote:

Notch wrote:

Sin é wrote:Kidney managed to rotate his team AND win a Grand Slam.

Players like Paddy Wallace got to start games. He even benched the great Heaslip for one game (which J'aime has never forgiven him for that)! He rotated his his SHs. Only ones not rotated were the props (and thats because there was no one to rotate them with).

Kidney started 19 different players in that Championship. So far Schmidt has started 18 different players.

To be fair MunsterMac, Sin E and GunsGerms are being a wee bit petty but there's still a gap between petty and personal.

He wouldn't have except POC was ill and D'Arcy wasn't fit. As soon as D'Arcy was fit, Marshall was dropped. Henderson would not be starting if POM was fully fit.

In the GS year, Paddy Wallace, Stringer, Best & Leamy all got selected even when the ones they replaced were fit (and on the bench).

If you want to make the comparison we can always point out that not one of those was a progressive selection,Wallace only started cos D'Arcy wasn't fit and the other 3 were all established internationals.Schmidt has given significant gametime to rookies like Henderson,Toner,McGrath and Moore while also giving some time to Jackson,O'Donnell and Murphy so far.Henry is an experienced player but a rookie international who has had gametime and Ruddock could be another player who will broaden his options.

Sin é wrote:Kidney managed to rotate his team AND win a Grand Slam.

Players like Paddy Wallace got to start games. He even benched the great Heaslip for one game (which J'aime has never forgiven him for that)! He rotated his his SHs. Only ones not rotated were the props (and thats because there was no one to rotate them with).

Sorry Sin but that's serious revisionism. Kidney started the same XV for the first three games. He then gave Leamy, Stringer and Best a game before reverting back to the original guys (with the exception of D'arce). That's a total of 19 starters

Schmidt has 15 guys starting on sat and you can add Marshall, Tuohy and O'Mahoney so that's a total of 18 different starters with 1 game left. Hardly a gargantuan difference. So far Schmidt has used 28 different players (I think it will be 30 if Ruddock and Reddan are used).

I could be wrong but did kidney go outside the same 22 in 2009? I'm not certain he did. I'm not being critical of him either, it was a grand slam year but the criticism of Schmidt is provincially based and fairly thinly veiled at that.

Notch wrote:Get laid into someone on a personal level and see what happens

Ah the fine print!! 

Yeah I'd also like to see some rotation in the summer, especially in the back three and at lock. Might even consider leaving O'Connell at home in the summer with the talent we have there. There's a number of other guys who can run the lineout- Tuohy, Ryan, Toner.

Now the team is named all I really care about is getting behind them.

MunsterMac wrote:

Notch wrote:Get laid into someone on a personal level and see what happens

Ah the fine print!! 

You know what they say- tread lightly but carry a big stick!

I can't believe no-one has even mentioned the Italy selection yet. It's in the new and improved original post and certainly there's more to talk about with the Italian camp than there is with us...

Notch wrote:Actually Schmidt said Bowe got up to speed very quickly, but I agree he probably won't feature.

I think Bowe will come off the bench v France. Bowes 'tightness' after playing 40 min's with Ulster was given as a possible reason for his exclusion in the Italy game, and Schmidt mentioned that Bowe has just come through training without having that same tightness.

I think the entire debate can be summed up with this line from Schmidt, whether you agree with him or not;

"Some players had a weekend off last week with their provinces, and if they miss two weekends it wouldn't be the best preparation for France."

That said I really want to see the bench getting used, as it has been fairly well so far to be fair.

Standulstermen wrote:

Sin é wrote:Kidney managed to rotate his team AND win a Grand Slam.

Players like Paddy Wallace got to start games. He even benched the great Heaslip for one game (which J'aime has never forgiven him for that)! He rotated his his SHs. Only ones not rotated were the props (and thats because there was no one to rotate them with).

Sorry Sin but that's serious revisionism. Kidney started the same XV for the first three games. He then gave Leamy, Stringer and Best a game before reverting back to the original guys (with the exception of D'arce). That's a total of 19 starters

Schmidt has 15 guys starting on sat and you can add Marshall, Tuohy and  O'Mahoney so that's a total of 18 different starters with 1 game left. Hardly a gargantuan difference. So far Schmidt has used 28 different players (I think it will be 30 if Ruddock and Reddan are used).

I could be wrong but did kidney go outside the same 22 in 2009? I'm not certain he did. I'm not being critical of him either, it was a grand slam year but the criticism of Schmidt is provincially based and fairly thinly veiled at that.

I actually think some "fans" would quite like to see Schmidt fail and happily see Ireland lose the championship to that end. Very strange.

Sin é wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

Sin é wrote:Oh and Reddan instead of O'Leary

Yeah, I remember aimless box-kicking ....more orders from on-high.  The opposition got so used to seeing them coming that they camped out overnight to be in the right part of the field to collect them.

Yep, aimless kicking to a Grand Slam!   

Certainly oodles of it after the GrandSlam. Everything became aimless after the GS unfortunately for us. We aimed for the stars and were almost dumped out of the top 10.

Standulstermen wrote:

Sin é wrote:Kidney managed to rotate his team AND win a Grand Slam.

Players like Paddy Wallace got to start games. He even benched the great Heaslip for one game (which J'aime has never forgiven him for that)! He rotated his his SHs. Only ones not rotated were the props (and thats because there was no one to rotate them with).

Sorry Sin but that's serious revisionism. Kidney started the same XV for the first three games. He then gave Leamy, Stringer and Best a game before reverting back to the original guys (with the exception of D'arce). That's a total of 19 starters

Schmidt has 15 guys starting on sat and you can add Marshall, Tuohy and  O'Mahoney so that's a total of 18 different starters with 1 game left. Hardly a gargantuan difference. So far Schmidt has used 28 different players (I think it will be 30 if Ruddock and Reddan are used).

I could be wrong but did kidney go outside the same 22 in 2009? I'm not certain he did. I'm not being critical of him either, it was a grand slam year but the criticism of Schmidt is provincially based and fairly thinly veiled at that.

And the criticism of Kidney wasn't provincially based?    Leinster fans in particular hated Kidney with a vengence.

If I wanted to be provincially critical of Schmidt, I would go for the selection of Leinster players en masse. Seriously, Ryan an experienced lock who can also play in the backrow behind Rudduck & Murphy? It might not be so bad if there were some Rabo games to help with his fitness where he will probably be needed in France next week.

Kidney was disliked because post '09 he clearly wasnt good enough for international management.

We have a better manager now so no need to talk about him anymore.

Not a real surprise in the selections to be honest. Looking forward to the game on Saturday but cant see this backline running in loads of scores.

Nachos Jones wrote:Not a real surprise in the selections to be honest. Looking forward to the game on Saturday but cant see this backline running in loads of scores.

Even though they have already scored more tries this year than they did last year in the whole six nations? Cant please some people.