Value For Money

In an ideal world we would all playing courses like The National in Augusta or the manicured ambience of Loch Lomond, but sadly we don't. Some of us are lucky enough to live in areas that have an abundance of courses, and Scotland has some of the best municipal tracks around, for some great, cheap golf. Other areas don't have enough forcing serious players to travel further afield to play somewhere decent. Costs for membership vary from area to area, meaning some can pay high membership fees or green fees to play a brickyard, whilst some pay a reasonable amount and have a great track and great facilities.

I pay in excess of £700 and have a great course, with brilliant greens, plenty of scenary, but rudey poo bunkers. I've played plenty of more expensive courses and found at least one thing that's poor about the place, and the Brabazon springs to mind as being the most expensive cabbage patch in the country, especially after rain.

So does everyone feel they get value for money from your club?

I have a £99 membership at a local club that gives me 1/3 off the green fees when I play and allows me to play comps and keep a handicap. If I were to join a relatively nice private club near me it would be around £2k joining fee and £1500 per year in subs. I play around once a fortnight in the golfing season (Mar-Sep) so disregarding the joining fee which is for life, I have £1401 in my bank to play 14 rounds of golf (£1500 subs less £99 that I pay over 7 months at 2 rounds per month). This means that I can afford £100 per round of golf by not being a full member somewhere and with my job I get around 6 golf days thrown in so that then makes it £175 budget per round (6 free rounds leaves £1401 for 8 rounds). When you then apply 2-4-1 vouchers, twilight rounds, special deals (particularly in Mar/Apr and Sep) and member's guests rounds then this means that I generally play top golf courses every time I play and I pay less over the year than if I were to be a member.

Obviously if I didn't work full time with a life outside of golf then I would probably play more and joining a club would be more financially beneficial. For the moment though, not being a member means that I get huge value from my golf by playing the best courses at a relatively low price...

Most clubs seem to have dumped the joining fees over the last couple of years, as they all try and compete for each others members. I'm aware though that there are still many clubs which have increased joining fees, but it depends on the area, and of course those that like to think they have exclusivity ...

I didn't pay a joining fee, when i joined my club 2 years ago, its just been reinstated for full members only. Subs are £1150 a year including £50 on my bar card and egu subs etc...

I order to pay and play it would probably cost on average £20 a pop, a mixture of munis and treats... so if i played 40 times a year which is roughly what i did before i joined somewhere.. it would cost me £800 a year...

However i live adjecent to my course so normally play 2 full rounds a week in summer and 1 in winter (about 75 rounds a year + countless 9 and 6 hole jaunts and practice sessions) as it only takes 4 hours or so with a swift one after - no travel time to factor in so my domestic responsibilities are not reglected.

My home course is considered one of the best in the West Midlands and regularly holds Worcestershire County Events so given it works my rough cost per round is £15, its pretty good value for me. Add to that the fact that i like being a club member and meeting new people all the time, which i still do after 2 years and my course has no tee times except for comps, so the majority of the time i can just rock up and play.. and its a winner.

I appreciate there are is better value out there, but i live in Birmingham so while there a a decent choice its not massive and fees are pretty comparable.

Rossa Iguess on the whole, we're all pretty happy with what we've got and what we pay, otherwise we'd walk. But then I guess there are some who can't do that so easily as maybe theres nowhere local, or could be a couple of mates are unhappy, but the group of guys they play with want to stay. There are times i feel that we get taken for granted and just off the top of my head I'll give you an example. I don't know if this is fact, but I'm taking a punt. Maverick has just moved and joined a new club, and paid his subs etc. A few weeks later he's injured and going to be out for months so his value for money is devalued. he could be paying £500 per round this year as he only got a couple in .....

I get my muni ticket, which gives me unlimited play on 6 courses 7 days a week, for around £30 a month. Probably not quite as good as SR gets, but not bad.

Doc wrote:Rossa Iguess on the whole, we're all pretty happy with what we've got and what we pay, otherwise we'd walk. But then I guess there are some who can't do that so easily as maybe theres nowhere local, or could be a couple of mates are unhappy, but the group of guys they play with want to stay. There are times i feel that we get taken for granted and just off the top of my head I'll give you an example. I don't know if this is fact, but I'm taking a punt. Maverick has just moved and joined a new club, and paid his subs etc. A few weeks later he's injured and going to be out for months so his value for money is devalued. he could be paying £500 per round this year as he only got a couple in .....

Same thing happened to me when i joined, broken foot - 6 months out... i should have had golf insurance, at £30 they would have paid my fees for the time i was injured...as well as loads of other stuff.. still haven't got it though....

VFM is a very broad spectrum to cover, it can mean different things to different people VFM could work out to how much your average round costs a year compared to annual subs! E.g £700 membership a year but 70rounds a year means a tenner a round or it could equally be to other £700 quid 10 rounds or 3 rounds not something you can quantify unless you give specifics

For me VFM is about cost per round. Its about the quality of what I'm paying for. So do I get VFM for cost per round No but do I feel I get VFM because od the quality of what I pay for absolutely

I pay £1100pa for full membership at my club. I play about 100 rounds a year, combination of every week in the winter and 2 or 3 times a week in the summer. I make regular use of the practice ground, bar and social functions as well.

So that works out at around £10 a round for a Top 100 course, I'm pretty happy with that!

Would you say that scotland gives the best VFM in monetery terms. Muni membership like Mac's probably works out at £3 per round and spread over a load of courses. I need to play 23 rounds per year to get my money's worth, but at my away course that cost me £160, I've already had £220 worth so far. Would really like to know what the knoobs at loch Lomond feel about their VFM. Most of them live abroad and come over every other year for a few days or a couple of weeks. I bet they think they get VFM because they can add LL membership into conversations ...

I got introduced to an old boy at Valderrama who was also a member at Loch Lomond. He scarpered pretty quick, probably scared I was going to ask him for an invite

How the other half live..................

Doc

Strangely there seems to be a market for the likes of Loch Lomonds membership model. They entice rich international members who are willing to pay potentially up to £100000 for a membership. Another club that uses a similar model is Renaissance in east Lothian, shares a boundary wall with Muirfield.

http://www.trcaa.com/

I sent them an email requesting membership details and they were asking £60000 to join through buying a bond in the club. Cant remember the resale conditions of this bond. I can imagine they keep a fair percentage of it.

I heard that barclays head bob diamond was a member.

Mac these places don't do 2 for 1 deals then?

It's not really rocket science for a model. Buy a club for £5m and then sell 100 memberships with a £60k debenture giving an immediate return of £6m. Then charge everyone £10k a year for subs which is not unreasonable compared with racing clubs, polo clubs, gentleman's clubs etc. The 100 members will hardly play it so their £1m per year from subs covers all relevant costs. You can then offer some corporate membership and maybe host the odd wedding or function as a nice earner and suddenly you pretty much have The London Club - a place that people strangely wish to pay fortunes to join despite it being on a scrubby bit of farmland on an M25 slip road...

Sharrison

No, you are right the numbers stack up, it is just surprising they find the 100 members. Especially in places like East Lothian and Loch Lomond where most of the members face a long haul flight to play the course.

It's about the prestige of being a member as well though. I can understand a place like The London Club making it work but these sort of places generally don't make money and hence have new owners every few years. Even if they don't make money, the sort of people that own them can probably afford a couple of £m a year to be able to have the experience of being a golf club owner. I'm sure a lot of people on here would consider purchasing a golf course if they had a few £100m in the bank, even if as a business it cost them a couple of £m a year...

I pay £330 for 8 courses, two of which were former Open Qualifiers.
Tend to play mainly on two courses but it is nice to have the awayday without paying any extra.
Must be best VFM in the UK.

doon the water

me too.

darley lochgreen and belleisle are terrific courses. if the were private tracks they would be awesome

I've always loved the Darley, cracking little course. Ranked 5th hardest course in Scotland to play to your handicap or something similar??

Anyone managed to birdie the 5th at Darley?
I managed it once, felt like an Albatros

Is that the dogleg left par 4 with the bushes either side of the entrance to the green? If so then no, don't think I've even parred it!!

I suppose I get not too bad a deal at £48 a month for unlimited play on an 18 and 2 other 9s in this part of the country (Wiltshire). It's all relative though, that's nearly double the Ayrshire muni ticket that you enjoy Doon the Watter. Also significantly higher than the St Andrews & Carnoustie links trust tickets.

Unless you're lucky enough to live in the catchment area for those deals to me the best way to get value for money top notch courses is to play them in Opens.
For example, Royal Dornoch 36 hole Open, mid July, £48. Twenty four quid a round to play what to me is up there with the best courses on the planet.

D4S--Yes, you drive over a big scrub hollow then you have to draw your second [usually a 3 wood for me] between the the gorse on the left and trees on the right whilst avoiding the two bunkers guarding the front of the green, simples.

Jas-- let me know when you can play and I shall arrange a tee time, I have a guest ticket which will get you on at a cheaper rate.

its not that tough a hole guys !!!

well maybe a wee bit !

ive made afew birdies in my time but my claim to fame is after hitting 9 golf shots on that hole i walked off with a par 4 !

answers on a postcard ?????

offthehosel wrote:its not that tough a hole guys !!!

well maybe a wee bit !

ive made afew birdies in my time but my claim to fame is after hitting 9 golf shots on that hole i walked off with a par 4 !

answers on a postcard ?????

Something to do with provisional shots?

From sunny London...

I once made 4 on a tough par 4 after having taken 5 tee shots and 7 strikes in total. plus an unplayable drop.

its the look on your markers face when you say "4"

priceless

3 tee shots. found 1st ball .4 iron to green. couldnt follow it because of the bushes, so hit a ball back to the fairway. played to the green and pulled it to the bushes. played a provisional from there to the middle of the green. my 1st ball was of the back edge of the green in the rough...up and down for 4 !

I think you may have broken the rules on that one.

Once the player makes a stroke with the provisional from a point that is likely to be nearer the hole than the original the provisional becomes the ball in play. Under penalty of one stroke and distance.

Now you must have thought the original was no where near the green to have played a provisional. So when you hit the provisional from the fairway to the green from you perspective you must have thought that the provisional was likely to be at a point nearer to the hole than the place where the original was.

McLaren wrote:I think you may have broken the rules on that one.

Once the player makes a stroke with the provisional from a point that is likely to be nearer the hole than the original the provisional becomes the ball in play. Under penalty of one stroke and distance.

Now you must have thought the original was no where near the green to have played a provisional. So when you hit the provisional from the fairway to the green from you perspective you must have thought that the provisional was likely to be at a point nearer to the hole than the place where the original was.

Good point, well made.

And I believe 100% correct??

OR

Under 27-2 c

If the original ball is neither lost nor our of bounds, the player must abandon the provisional ball and continue play with the original ball. If he makes any further strokes at the provisional ball, he is playing a wrong ball and rule 15-3 applies.

Making a stroke at a wrong a ball is a two stroke penalty. Failing to correct a stroke at a wrong ball is a disqualification.

sorry guys
at no point did i play ashot with a provisional ball that was closer to the hole than my original ball.

when i played my 2nd shot to the green it was from aprox 200yds (behind the 8th green...DTW will know where this is ) i hit it very well but i could not determine if my ball hd made the green or not and my playing partners didnt see it either so i played a provisional ball to the fairway which was ashot of around 75 yds almost sideways which left a shot of around 180 yds. from the fairway i played again as it was not nearer the hole and pulled it into the bushes. so i played a provisional and knocked it into the centre of the green. when we reached the green my original ball was off the back of the green in the rough which was impossible to see from the fairway .....so thats the story.

i dont think i broke any rules as i did not play a provisional ball that was closer to the hole than my original ball ???????

ma head hurts

offthehosel wrote:

i dont think i broke any rules as i did not play a provisional ball that was closer to the hole than my original ball ???????

The issue here is the rules only state that the provisional has to be played from a position "likely" to be nearer the hole. If you had no idea where your first ball went, ie it could be anywhere, then actually it was highly likely your provisional was closer to the hole. Not worth worrying about really, I guess.

Told you it was a tough hole!

Oth......I am amazed you found your 1st tee shot, it's a jungle out there or did you find the greenkeepers path?.

I once hit a 5 wood second shot totally off the toe into the gorse at the 15th on Turnberry Kintyre. I played a provisional and put it on the approach.

I forgot about the old runway and my ball must have bounced down it and finished pin high 50 yards right of the green, pitched on to 10feet and a simple par.

mac

i hear you

but honestly even if my "2nd" shot was in the bushes i would not have played my provisional from nearer the hole...but your right not worth worrying about as it happened near;y 10 yr ago.....

McLaren wrote:

offthehosel wrote:

i dont think i broke any rules as i did not play a provisional ball that was closer to the hole than my original ball ???????

The issue here is the rules only state that the provisional has to be played from a position "likely" to be nearer the hole. If you had no idea where your first ball went, ie it could be anywhere, then actually it was highly likely your provisional was closer to the hole. Not worth worrying about really, I guess.

Don't you just hate Rule pedants?